Laptop djing/button pushers

milltown

Daroxtar wrote: »

The same has more than likely been said about Kid Handsome.

Fight! fight! fight! fight!

Daroxtar wrote: »

Take the difference between driving a manual car and an automatic. The end result is the same but realistically speaking Automatic cars are for retards who cant master one of the simplest bits so they let the machine do it for them. Thats fine but then what happens if the brakes fail? In a manual car you jus drop it down the gears and take control. In an automatic you either wreck your gearbox trying to do that or you crash.

That is jointly the most far fetched argument I've ever read against DJ software AND automatic gearboxes.

My point of view; Years ago I had decks and boxes of records and lots more time on my hands to practice. I was no more than average though. Now with software and a midi controller I could probably put together a better mix than I could back then while doing the ironing! (But don't tell Mrs.Milltown). Instead of just accepting that it's that easy now though, I'm being more creative with loops, filters, effects and even three and four decks.

A large part of the argument, I think, is down to the fact that the guy that does weddings and pub nights with €500 worth of citronics gear in a flight case, has the same job title as the guy with crates of rare vinyl, and acetates who knows how to work a room beyond "nobody's dancing to Stars on 45, better break out the jive bunny". They're both DJs but surely you know what to expect from them both. I've never been to a club night where a "performance" DJ has rocked the room and kept the crowd going all night and given a fiddlers whether he did it with vinyl, CDs, MP3s or just played the whole thing off his iPod to be honest.

Sounds

I think that's where the clubbers either know or care what formats the performer is using,
In most clubs today nobody cares what you're using as long as the music is good and the drink keeps coming.

That's sad but then agin, there's better clubs out their for people who want a proper session, peoplewith an aquired taste in unique sounding music.
Which is why i allways loved elecronic music, tech, prog, minimal etc
I think i'm too old to be bouncing around to techno anyway but i still love quality sounds.
I supose you're right in a sence about decks, they are a tool for mastering beats and so on.
I wish there was more opertunities for young djs when i was growing up, but you were either in the scene or one of the listeners, clubbers.
Was in a bar in amsterdam once, the bar had their cd decks built into the wall facing out, we enjoyed it but, would have been better if there were decks.
If you have good music and the ability to share it, no matter how you put it together, it's amazing if you can connect with a crowd.
The whole sync thing sounds a bit crappy though, cheating, taking the art out of it.
I actually came on here for the first time in years, to see how much peeps were selling 1210's for.
Now i really don't want to sell them, id get a set again anyway when i could afford them, but im not gonna take that chance, too expencive.
Even if i amuse myself then they are worth every penny, i've got my money's worth.
Even though i love the decks, it's amazing to see someone like daft punk create crazy sounds or even dave clarke, boxes of switches and knobs.
I love to try out new tools, plastic or metal or both, as long as they can help me produce something unique, manually so what.
The main reason i wanted to use a surface controler was because after a while you get sick of depending on your mouse to turn knobs in software.
Unless you're lucky enough to have a proper studio at your desposal.
Now i dont have to depend on an expencive mixing unit to add extras, run it all through an audio interface and add what ever effects you want over the live set with your effects software, you can't make most effects without software anyway, even the most expencive studio equiptment has firmware runing it.
The most important thing is that i do it because i love how it all sounds, the end result.
I'm also amazed at how a good musician with real instruments can play them and record them into loops and play them back as they would sound if he just played the sounds with the instruments only.
Great guitar player with a foot peddle, play some music hit foot peddle, record, loop, next instrument, that's how a lot music is composed these days, digitally remastered using hardware and software.
A one man band lol

A friend has the keys to an old church, haven't played in a church before, but should be exciting.
Gonna have the decks and the rest setup on the alter, generally just make music and enjoy ourselfs, maybe record some.
We'll most likely use ableton to record loops from the church organ pipes lol, laptop and software will come in handy there.
The sound should be amazing

Sorry i get off track with excitement thinking about this stuff, i'd love to do it as a professional career, traveling and all that lonely stuff, but i don't, it's hard to get out there and make a name for yourself, which i probably don't want.

Táck

jtsuited wrote: »

If so, I'm sure there is some carpenter somewhere in the world who doesn't. And guess what, he doesn't view you as a real carpenter. But he'd be wrong. For the very same reason you are wrong.

ha, thats very very true

Jev/N

jtsuited wrote: »

I actually got the hang of beatmatching on cdj's in about an hour or two.

I already expressed my views, but I will comment on this saying that beatmatching on CDJs is infinitely easier that doing the same on 1210's

kmick

Daroxtar wrote: »

The real art of turntablism is being lost with only the hip hop djs keeping it alive and artists like Claude Young are being forgotten when they should be held in the same breath as virtuoso's like Joe Satriani or Stefan Grapelli. When i see someone on a laptop beat juggle 3 tracks using their elbow and their chin on the touch pad then I'll be convinced. Till then........ NOOOOOOOOO.

Personally that stuff bores me to tears. Id much prefer to have 90 minutes of nicely beatmatched, interesting, varied music than 90 seconds of music followed by 90 more seconds of chin scratching, followed by 90 seconds of music, followed by 90 seconds of elbow scratching. I get enough infantile bahaviour chasing my kids around thanks very much.

electrogrimey

jtsuited wrote: »

Do you ever use power tools in your job as a carpenter?

If so, I'm sure there is some carpenter somewhere in the world who doesn't. And guess what, he doesn't view you as a real carpenter. But he'd be wrong. For the very same reason you are wrong.

I love this.

I'd just like to point out the fact that there's hundreds and hundreds of awful wedding/hotel DJs with a beautiful set-up of 3 CDJ-1000s and DJM-800, who can't mix whatsoever. I'd have infinitely more respect for someone on an xponent mixing good tunes, even if he is technologically assisted, then some knob on CDJs who can't mix.

brianc27

i usually find people that give out about laptop djs are those that have actually never tried to use some sort of djing software, to be honest id probably do just as tight a mix (beatmatching wise) on a set of cdj1000's as i would on traktor, due to the pitch adjust on the 1000's being so tight (obviously), i used to have a set a few years ago before i switched to a laptop, with the likes of traktor its not just a case of hitting sync and everything is matched up for the duration of the tracks, beatgridding on traktor is great but its not always 100% so you do have to have a good ear for mixing as you may need to make slight adjustments, but what traktor has over cdj's/decks is a fantastic looping system and the option for 4 decks if needed, plus all your music is there for you on your laptop.

i don't use ableton and my knowledge of it is minimal so i can't comment on that.

electrogrimey

brianc27 wrote: »

what traktor has over cdj's/decks is a fantastic looping system and the option for 4 decks if needed, plus all your music is there for you on your laptop.

i don't use ableton and my knowledge of it is minimal so i can't comment on that.

The new 2000s include both of these features, but in fairness they're far too expensive for most people. I see ableton as mostly for a producer playing live, or for producing. Can't really see how it would work well for DJ sets.

Sounds

You could use ableton as a mixing tool also, you just cant cue the music in your headphones like you would with a mixer and turntables
You'd need to add on an audio interface http://www.novationmusic.com/products/audio_interface/nio_2_4

brianc27

id never use ableton to just mix 1 track into another, if i was to use it i'd cut up any track i intend to use into loops and mix 3 or 4 of them together and so on.

SteveDon

Cant believe people are still harping on about laptop djs.

In all fairness what in the sh1t does it make a difference what tunes are mixed on if they are mixed well?

If you were a vinyl buff and you downloaded a mix off the net that you really enjoyed, only to find out it was mixed with traktor would that change your opinion on it?

Its like saying that using an arppregiator in production is cheating.

VinylJunkie

agreed pointless argument imo.

eZe^

Sounds wrote: »

A friend has the keys to an old church, haven't played in a church before, but should be exciting.
Gonna have the decks and the rest setup on the alter, generally just make music and enjoy ourselfs, maybe record some.
We'll most likely use ableton to record loops from the church organ pipes lol, laptop and software will come in handy there.
The sound should be amazing

That sounds immense, wanna invite us?

eeloe

I've been using the xponent all weekend, and i have to say i love it!

I have all my music in on place, without looking through CD cases.

It's excelent, and it sounds a lot better than i thought it would!:)

Zascar

I had the Xponent too and loved it, but from experience the sound quality is not up to par. Not sure why but I'm changing to Traktor..

gsparx

It's interesting to hear people's opinions on this. Obviously some folks still feel strongly about it.
But it is just about what comes out of the speaker and what moves the dance floor.

The whole era of the "superstar" dj was absurd but probably fun for a bit. People want heroes and like to put people up on a pedestal for a while.
When Sasha/ Digweed/ Oakenfold etc. were charging $50 in for 2 hour sets, was it because they were the most skillflul with the pitch control?
No, they were in the right place at the right time and people enjoyed the sets they put together.
Some people would have said, "they're just playing other people's music..wtf?"
Now other people are saying, "they're using a computer to match up the beats...wtf?

If you're only into vinyl dj's only go to see vinyl only dj's, that's fine.
But with new technology comes a new set of skills. Or if you want to see real turntable skill go to see Rob Swift or whoever.
Some people are into Satriani (there he is again) or Coltrane or whoever because they enjoy seeing/ hearing that type of skill on an instrument but with DJ'ing (with the exception of turntablism) it's about how you use the technolgy (whether 1200's or a computer) to create moving sets of music.
90% of all mix CD's released have used studio trickery to create a seamless flow. Does that make them any less valid? I don't believe so.
I personally love vinyl mainly because of the sound and feel but I've no problem with digital music and welcome the new technology because it has some serious advantages.

jtsuited

coltrane is spinning in his grave being mentioned in the same sentence as satriani!

Dragan

Zascar wrote: »

Just under 10 years ago when CDJ's came on the scene all the Vinyl enthusiasts went bananas saying its cheating and its not the same bla bla bla, but several years later CDJ's replaced 1210's as the standard, and Vinyl pusists then became the minority. Seveal of my friends ate their words and switched to CDJ's after swearing that Vinyl was the one and only way to mix music.

Now CDJ's are being replaced by software and controllers and its the same silly stories flying around. The wax heads used the sound quality arguement for ages but it just does not stand up any longer.

For me and I assume many others, its a faily simple decision based upon a cost/effort/ability analysis. Quite simply, I like mixing records but I'm not prepared to pay €10 for one track, or lug heavy records around either. Also, I like mixing on CDJ's but I hate having to mess about with CD's, burning, cataloging etc and deal with skipping on occaision. I like the ability to search all my music on a screen - and then have the options as to my meduim (controller/software etc) as to how I turn what I see on screen into what comes out of the speakers. It Does Not Matter.

The 'Auto Beatmathcing is Cheating' arguement does not hold much weight either. "Beatmatching" is not "DJing" - its about 1% of it - yet a lot of people still need to learn this. Taking this away brings new possibilies which for the audience are a lot more exciting to watching a DJ bring two beats together.

CDJ-2000's are probably the best solution, but they can fuk right off if they think they are going to get 4k out of me for a set of decks!

Pretty much. You also have plenty of producers who actually don't want to be a DJ, and want some easy and stable way to reproduce what they do live.

A software/controller set up seems to be a good way to go.

gsparx

jtsuited wrote: »

coltrane is spinning in his grave being mentioned in the same sentence as satriani!

Spinning? I don't think so.
Possibly rotating slowly.
Both prone to musical wankery...one in a suit, the other in leather pants.

Sounds

If i heard a great set on cd or the net by my fav dj i'd be impressed
If i found out they used some sync technology to have the software
match the beats for them, i don't think i'd be as impressed, definetly not.
But then again, i know my fav djs know how to put it all together proper!
All their effects and swishes wouldn't be possible without the software in their equiptment.

I don't know what they are doin mostly, never see their computer's screen!

Anyone can mix two or 3 or 4 tunes on vinyl or computer, with practise
To some people it just comes naturally, and they have unique music to play.
Not everyone can create a musical journey from their music.

You're not being creative if you let the software control mixing for you

Hardcore is for people that haven't aquired a taste for quality sounds.
Just thought i'd add that in.

MikeHoncho

Sounds wrote: »

If i heard a great set on cd or the net by my fav dj i'd be impressed
If i found out they used some sync technology to have the software
match the beats for them, i don't think i'd be as impressed, definetly not.
But then again, i know my fav djs know how to put it all together proper!
All their effects and swishes wouldn't be possible without the software in their equiptment.

But sure way before there was laptop Dj's mix CD's were put together using the likes of Pro Tools etc. Even if the mix was done live they would go in and clean up any mistakes etc before it was released.

electrogrimey

gsparx wrote: »

Spinning? I don't think so.
Possibly rotating slowly.
Both prone to musical wankery...one in a suit, the other in leather pants.

Are you actually putting Coltrane, one of the most talented and intelligent musicians of all time, and Satriani, an overgrown 13-year-old bedroom-rockstar, on the same level? The difference between them is that every single note Coltrane plays has been analysed by him in the context of the current chord, the past chord, and the next chord, and in the line he's playing, all instantaneously before he plays it, whereas Satriani just plays pentatonics faster and with more effects than some other people.

Zascar, would you not advise the Xponent then? Was thinking of getting one, the only thing I can see that's better is Allen+Heath, which is way out of my budget...

Zascar

The Xponent is a very good unit and great for home mixing, it severed me well for years. However as far as the software goes, Torq is not nearly as good as Traktor Pro. There is a reason a host of top DJ's use Traktor Pro but none I know use Torq. I also had issues around Sound Quality, gigging out etc, people noticed that the quality was not up to par.

For similar money to the Xponent you can get a Vestax VCI-100SE and a Native Instruments Audio 2 DJ - which is a more professional better quality solution.

gsparx

electrogrimey wrote: »

Are you actually putting Coltrane, one of the most talented and intelligent musicians of all time, and Satriani, an overgrown 13-year-old bedroom-rockstar, on the same level?

No.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8Vml7SwxXTI