Diet Critique

Jimmy Bottlehead

Hey all.

Still trying to put on size, but opting for a slower lean muscle gain as in the past my bodyfat went up too quickly. The following is a typical diet...



Meal 1 (right after getting up)

1 Scoop Whey
1 Scoop Casein
1 Cup Oats
500ml milk



Meal 2 (1 Hour 30 min later, pre workout)

Banana
Apple



Meal 3 (1hr 20 min later, post workout)

1.5 Scoop Maltodextrin
1 Scoop Whey
1 Scoop Casein
500ml Milk



Meal 4 (1 hour later)

3 whole eggs
Half can baked beans with sauce drained off



Meal 5 (about 2 hours 30 min later)

1 Salmon Fillet
Assorted Veg
Fine Egg Noodles
Sauce



Meal 6 (about 2 hours 30 min later)

1 Steak Burger
Wee bit of ketchup
1 Pint Milk



Meal 7 (right before bed)

400ml Milk
1 Scoop Whey
1 Scoop Casein


***


Thats a rough guide to my daily diet. Its combined with 5 weight sessions a week, along with two high intensity cardio sessions, and maybe a wrestling match or two at the weekend. Also, I'd have a cheat meal or two during the week, maybe ice cream, or a pizza.


Basically, I'd love some advice as to where I can cut out the crap there and make better choices, as I want to make my carbs smarter, and start wheedling the unneccessary bodyfat down... but also keeping it as a do-able diet. I've cut out bread the past few weeks and had smaller portions of rice / pasta / noodles, and it has made a good improvement.

Thanks

TommyKnocker

Hi There

No expert here just an ordinary Joe (46yrs old) who would also like to add about 7lb muscle to my frame and I am amazed at how little real food is in your diet compared to Supplements.

Best Regards,

M

EileenG

That's my impression, very little real food.

I'd keep the whey for post workout, and casein for before bed, and eat real food all the rest of the time.

You have very little vegetables in there. Put some green veg into every sit down meal, including breakfast (poached eggs on spinach, green pepper omlette). Baked beans are very processed, you can do better than that.

Your diet looks very low in fat, which is something you need.

What's with all the milk?

corkcomp

OP, too many supps! you need VERY few supps to reach your goal and it is definately more satisfing to get your calories from real food!

I would echo the point about lack of vegetables, whether you are trying to drop fat or gain muscle, it doesnt matter, you NEED vegetables .. I wouldnt go as far as to say you need veg at every meal (no offence Eileen!) but having a load of green veg for dinner and some salad veg at lunch would be perfect ...


I would also be careful with that much milk, im not saying milk is bad but there are plenty other sources of the nutrients it contains .. if your just looking to get in a lot of cals go for nuts / dried fruit sometimes?

if you are trying to drop fat you need to look at overall calorie intake also, not just carbs, if you are eating too much and not burning it off somehow the fat wont shift .

dont overthink things when it comes to meal timings, there is no need to eat every 2.5 hours, now if you feel hungry it is fine but there is nothing wrong with going four hours between meals as long as you are not skipping meals or going hungry ...

Hanley

Maybe I’m just reading it badly, but you’re looking to drop fat right? If so it looks decent…. What’s your bodyweight?? I’m a big fan, and have always had great success with just going bodyweight in lbs x13 split 40:30:30 protein:carbs:fat. As a starting point at least. As the diet progresses you can up the cardio, or decrease the carbs by maybe 25g per day and see where that takes you.

Here’s what I’m doing at the moment:

7,.30am:
Bowl of special K
Chicken Fillet
Multi-vit
3 fish oil tabs

10.30am:
1.5 scoops of whey
2 dessert spoons of 100% peanut butter

1pm:
A sandwich or something

4pm:
1.5 scoops of whey
2 dessert spoons of 100% peanut butter

6.30-7pm:
Meat and veg, small bit of potato – maybe 4-5 forks worth

9.30pm:
2 scoops of whey
50ish g of carbs

11pm:
1-2 scoops of whey
300ml of milk

OP, too many supps! you need VERY few supps to reach your goal and it is definately more satisfing to get your calories from real food!

You don’t know his personal circumstances, maybe he doesn’t have time to eat enough “real” food. It’s a lot easier to diet using supplements than whole foods anyway, purely from a convenience and kcal control point of view.

Like for me, I literally do not have time to sit down and eat food most of the time. Meals 2 and 4 are at my desk, meal 5’s a total rush job because I’m trying to get in and out of home as fast as possible, 6 is obviously post workout, and 7’s beofe I collapse into bed. Last thing I want to be doing is eating then.

I would echo the point about lack of vegetables, whether you are trying to drop fat or gain muscle, it doesnt matter, you NEED vegetables .. I wouldnt go as far as to say you need veg at every meal (no offence Eileen!) but having a load of green veg for dinner and some salad veg at lunch would be perfect ...

Veg at dinner, something green or colourful at lunch and a multi-vit’s the way I rock. Find it works well. Every meal’s excessive, imo!

I would also be careful with that much milk, im not saying milk is bad but there are plenty other sources of the nutrients it contains .. if your just looking to get in a lot of cals go for nuts / dried fruit sometimes?

Yah I’m confused by that too. Seems to be well over 2l of milk which would imply weight gain, but the rest of the diet seems to be geared towards weight loss. 2.5l of milk’s like 130g of carbs on it’s own afaik.

if you are trying to drop fat you need to look at overall calorie intake also, not just carbs, if you are eating too much and not burning it off somehow the fat wont shift .

True, but most people go too carb heavy anyway and just changing away from that to protein will have positive effects. Might not be as drastic as cutting back kcals absolutely, but it will help.

dont overthink things when it comes to meal timings, there is no need to eat every 2.5 hours, now if you feel hungry it is fine but there is nothing wrong with going four hours between meals as long as you are not skipping meals or going hungry ...

Have to say I absolutely disagree here. The BIGGEST thing for me when dieting is meal frequency. It’s the foundation off which everything else is built imo. Small, frequent meals will get your metabolism going like nothing else (seriously, try eating every 2-3 hours throughout the day for a week and then stop – you’ll get SO hungry over the next few days).

The longer you leave between meals the more likely you are to cheat or make bad choices. This is the biggest thing I still have issues with myself. Sometimes I don’t get a meal in cos I’m too rushed or forget and I REALLY pay the price later cos I’m starving and will eat anything.

Meal timing and frequency is the absolute key when it comes to dieting in my opinion and the stricter and more regimented you can be with this (assuming the diet itself is good), the faster you’ll drop the weight.

corkcomp

Hanley wrote: »

Maybe I’m just reading it badly, but you’re looking to drop fat right? If so it looks decent…. What’s your bodyweight?? I’m a big fan, and have always had great success with just going bodyweight in lbs x13 split 40:30:30 protein:carbs:fat. As a starting point at least. As the diet progresses you can up the cardio, or decrease the carbs by maybe 25g per day and see where that takes you.

Here’s what I’m doing at the moment:

7,.30am:
Bowl of special K
Chicken Fillet
Multi-vit
3 fish oil tabs

10.30am:
1.5 scoops of whey
2 dessert spoons of 100% peanut butter

1pm:
A sandwich or something

4pm:
1.5 scoops of whey
2 dessert spoons of 100% peanut butter

6.30-7pm:
Meat and veg, small bit of potato – maybe 4-5 forks worth

9.30pm:
2 scoops of whey
50ish g of carbs

11pm:
1-2 scoops of whey
300ml of milk



You don’t know his personal circumstances, maybe he doesn’t have time to eat enough “real” food. It’s a lot easier to diet using supplements than whole foods anyway, purely from a convenience and kcal control point of view.

if the OP gets the results he wants based on the diet he posted then great, but I have a feeling he wont as it looks too calorie dense overall. of course convenience factor comes into it but id still rather get my cals from real (nice tasting!) food rather than supps .. now If i was bulking i would take a different attitude!
Like for me, I literally do not have time to sit down and eat food most of the time. Meals 2 and 4 are at my desk, meal 5’s a total rush job because I’m trying to get in and out of home as fast as possible, 6 is obviously post workout, and 7’s beofe I collapse into bed. Last thing I want to be doing is eating then.



Veg at dinner, something green or colourful at lunch and a multi-vit’s the way I rock. Find it works well. Every meal’s excessive, imo!

Agreed


Yah I’m confused by that too. Seems to be well over 2l of milk which would imply weight gain, but the rest of the diet seems to be geared towards weight loss. 2.5l of milk’s like 130g of carbs on it’s own afaik.

what I was thinking, id prefer to get those carbs from fruit + veg + porridge and get the protein from tuna + meat or even whey, milk actually has more carbs than protein!

True, but most people go too carb heavy anyway and just changing away from that to protein will have positive effects. Might not be as drastic as cutting back kcals absolutely, but it will help.

defo, within reason.. dropping carbs doesnt = free for all when it comes to fats + protein etc - and remember the op wants to LOSE fat

Have to say I absolutely disagree here. The BIGGEST thing for me when dieting is meal frequency. It’s the foundation off which everything else is built imo. Small, frequent meals will get your metabolism going like nothing else (seriously, try eating every 2-3 hours throughout the day for a week and then stop – you’ll get SO hungry over the next few days).

The longer you leave between meals the more likely you are to cheat or make bad choices. This is the biggest thing I still have issues with myself. Sometimes I don’t get a meal in cos I’m too rushed or forget and I REALLY pay the price later cos I’m starving and will eat anything.

thats a little different, Ive found letting long gaps between meals has this effect and is caused by dropping blood sugar, if you are eating enough protein and good fats this prob wont happen 2.5 hours after a meal, not in my experience anyway.
Meal timing and frequency is the absolute key when it comes to dieting in my opinion and the stricter and more regimented you can be with this (assuming the diet itself is good), the faster you’ll drop the weight.

see you may be in a totally different position to the OP, i.e. involved in competitive lifting .. I dont think the average fitness enthusiast needs any more then four meals per day ... however, i can only speak from my own experience here.

comments above ... my advice to the OP would still be to reduce supps in favour of real / whole foods, calculate your calorie requirements (approx should do) and make sure you are not going overboard on cals ... oh and cut down the milk

TommyKnocker

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Hey all.

Still trying to put on size, but opting for a slower lean muscle gain as in the past my bodyfat went up too quickly. The following is a typical diet...

Hi Guys

I think the OP is trying to gain weight/size/bulk not loose. Probably why so much milk.

My preference would still be for real food, but each to their own.

Best Regards,

M

Hanley

if the OP gets the results he wants based on the diet he posted then great, but I have a feeling he wont as it looks too calorie dense overall. of course convenience factor comes into it but id still rather get my cals from real (nice tasting!) food rather than supps .. now If i was bulking i would take a different attitude!

I dunno… he still hasn’t really clarified what he’s after. Seems he wants the best of both worlds really… and his diet’s falling right in the middle.

Funnily, I’ve the opposite attitude towards weight gain. I find it easier to get the kcals in from real food cos there’s more scope for a bit of looseness that isn’t there when it comes to strict macro controls when dieting. The latter being much easier with protein powder and simple food combos, imo.

what I was thinking, id prefer to get those carbs from fruit + veg + porridge and get the protein from tuna + meat or even whey, milk actually has more carbs than protein!

When it comes to weight gain, I LOVE milk… I wouldn’t be so quick to use it on a cut tho… Sure I’ve <2l per week of it going into me atm.

defo, within reason.. dropping carbs doesnt = free for all when it comes to fats + protein etc - and remember the op wants to LOSE fat

I never said it does…. But if you drop carbs and replace them with an equal amount of protein or fat you’re probably going to end up dropping some weight. If you INCREASE kcals obviously that’s not going to happen.

thats a little different, Ive found letting long gaps between meals has this effect and is caused by dropping blood sugar, if you are eating enough protein and good fats this prob wont happen 2.5 hours after a meal, not in my experience anyway.

What is “enough”? Eating enough to stop you feeling hungry might be too much to allow you to drop weight like. I’m not really sure I’m understanding what you’re saying tbh… is it that leaving long gaps between meals shouldn’t make you feel hungry if you’ve been eating protein and fats mainly, cos your blood sugar won’t be all over the place?

see you may be in a totally different position to the OP, i.e. involved in competitive lifting .. I dont think the average fitness enthusiast needs any more then four meals per day ... however, i can only speak from my own experience here.

I hate the way this excuse gets thrown out when I get involved in threads like these. How are my requirements different? He’s training 5x per week with weights, 2x cardio + 1 or 2 other cardio events during the week.

Sure, I’m a “competitive lifter” but I only compete 3 or 4 times per year. The rest of the time is spent training to get stronger. The training I do is essentially the same as everyone else in the gym, I might just do it a bit better or push a bit harder.

Right now I’m cutting weight hard, for no other reason than to get below 10% and be able to hopefully gain a nice rebound off the back of it. Nearly everywhere you look, when it comes to dieting, increased meal frequency is recommended, and it makes sense. It might not be “necessary” insofar as you could do it without it, but why bother making it harder on yourself when something as easy as a shake and handful of nuts 2x more per day instead of a double serving at some other point in the day will help you to lose fat quicker?



As a random aside in relation to dieting, does anyone else get annoyed at that transitionary stage where you go from being “thick and fat”, to being “sorta muscular and skinny fat”, and then finally starting to look “lean”?? It happens every time I start to diet and ALWAYS annoys me. It’s funny cos the stage lasts fro a little bit and then all of a sudden it’s like the fat starts to literally melt away again.

Jimmy Bottlehead

Thanks for all the responses guys.

I'm around 87.5kg at the mo (13st 10lbs or so).

First off, to be honest I don't think I over-do the supps. I know this board is quite anti-supplement and I'd agree to a point, but at the same time there are reasons I take shakes when I do.

After I get up I want to get protein right into my system as well as keep it ticking over with it the next few hours, hence the whey and casein. Same for after a workout and also before bed.
Also part of the reason I have it for breakfast is because I hate porridge and its far easier to take the oats with the shake.

As an aside, the milk is mostly there for taste in the shakes (hate them with water) and also bulking purposes.

I guess what Hanley said is right, I'm aiming to gain size while I cut fat levels and its probably an arse-backwards way to do it. My question is, would I be better going down the traditional route of bulking and cutting?

slicus ricus

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

Its combined with 5 weight sessions a week, along with two high intensity cardio sessions, and maybe a wrestling match or two at the weekend.

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

I guess what Hanley said is right, I'm aiming to gain size while I cut fat levels and its probably an arse-backwards way to do it. My question is, would I be better going down the traditional route of bulking and cutting?

From the wrestling side of things, I would have said that you would be better off trying to gain muscle while keeping the body fat down. Aestheticly, leaner generally looks better (and bigger), which i assume is what you're after. It will probably take you longer to continue to gain muscle while keeping the bf% down but it is doable. I don't think it would be a good idea to spend 12 week periods bulking given that there isn't really an off season.

Jimmy Bottlehead

slicus ricus wrote: »

From the wrestling side of things, I would have said that you would be better off trying to gain muscle while keeping the body fat down. Aestheticly, leaner generally looks better (and bigger), which i assume is what you're after. It will probably take you longer to continue to gain muscle while keeping the bf% down but it is doable. I don't think it would be a good idea to spend 12 week periods bulking given that there isn't really an off season.

LOL. It is funny that after all this discussion, what I was doing might still be the best way forward!

Like you said, I can't really do a proper bulk phase because I'm always on shows and therefore expected to look well.

jayoo

I made a yummy protein shake yesterday,

2bananas
2heaped table spoons of peanut butter (100% peanuts, nothing added)
honey
Low fat milkl
tablespoon of flax
BLEND

and it taste pretty good, looked like poo

maybe u could stick a shake like this in somewhere, i had this about an hour before the gym, and cracked out a good session,

jayoo

Or why not throw a smoothee into the mix, lidl, aldi, tescos and dunnes all have cheap frozen fruit, pop it in blender with some water and a banana, with a scoop of whey, and u have an instant fruit boost

legend365

Maybe up the morning shake to 2 cups of oats? I make a shake simliar to yours except with no supplements just milk, oats, bananas and wheatgerm. Yum.

Also buy some veg(Spinach, broch, carrots) and liquidize em into a nice veg soup with some flour and spices for thickening and flavouring. Easily put into a cup and drank

jayoo

jayoo wrote: »

looked like poo

For Gods sake, for the sake of people who don't like toilet humour when discussing food or shakes, could you not do this again ? It's totally gross.

Transform

Jimmy Bottlehead wrote: »

LOL. It is funny that after all this discussion, what I was doing might still be the best way forward!

Like you said, I can't really do a proper bulk phase because I'm always on shows and therefore expected to look well.

a really lean and strong 89kg guy will look and perform farrrr better than a guy who is strong yet fat at say 95kg.

Stay lean and get strong week on week and do not shy away from metabolic conditioning sessions, intervals etc Most fear they are going to drop muscle which is total crap unless you are not eating enough and properly

Jimmy Bottlehead

Transform wrote: »

a really lean and strong 89kg guy will look and perform farrrr better than a guy who is strong yet fat at say 95kg.

Stay lean and get strong week on week and do not shy away from metabolic conditioning sessions, intervals etc Most fear they are going to drop muscle which is total crap unless you are not eating enough and properly

Thats brilliant, thanks Dom, really appreciate it.