Weights - 5x5 or 3x12?

Hey all,

I'm no Schwarzenegger, so go easy on me.


After spending a bit of time floating around the net, and this forum, it seems that the two most common pieces of advice regarding sets/reps for weights is to either do;

1. Three sets of twelve reps with a weight that is manageable by you, but that will tire you by the end of the three sets

or

2. Five sets of five reps, with a weight that is much heavier than you'd be expecting to lift, but that you can (just about) manage.

(always remaining a 'challenge' and never a 'struggle' usually commented on both of the above when I hear them mentioned).


Now whilst I don't have any direct links to places where these have been mentioned here or on other sites, these are the two that stick out in my memory as being the most common advice given/approach taken.


So anyway, my question is; why is this given as advice more often, and which is the better method?

Or have I been reading poor, misinformed information?



You guys seem pretty knowledgeable, so just looking to get your thoughts on the above.


Cheers all

Transform

start with 3 x 12 for the first 4-6 week then do 5 x 5 for the next 4-6 weeks.

Most people start with a 3 x 12 to begin with so they can drill their form with lighter weights and once they have it down move to a 5x5

there is only one rule of weight training IMO - are you getting stronger

Fainlly - i would say no one here is an Arnie just guys who know their sh1t when it comes to getting in great shape

Cheers for that Transform. I appreciate your advice on that. I've seen a few of your posts around the place, all of which strike me as pretty knowledgeable and helpful.


With that in mind, I've another question (or two) for you (or anyone who can offer any input obviously);


How often would you change to a heavier weight?

Speaking personally, I was doing a weight (of which i can't really remember) and i wasn't struggling as such, but when I moved up 10kg from that weight, i was handling it pretty much the same as the prior weight (I'm talking about machine weights here by the way, i'm still very new to free weights, and therefore, very careful and weary of them).

Do you generally wait until the weight you're lifting has become 'easy' to lift, or do you just set a time on it and hope for the best, and if you cant go higher, keep trying every set time afterwards again?



Secondly, what's the deal with lifting light weights and doing lots of reps? The place I go to, I often see guys that are built pretty well in the arms, etc. and they are whopping out about 50 reps on a machine using about 5kg or 10kg. They never look to be challenged by it at all, and I personally don't see the point. Anyone able to enlighten me on this? Is it for 'toning' their arms rather than working on building more muscle or somethng along those lines (again, go easy on me, i'm very uninformed regarding this kind of stuff, and I know these are silly questions, but there's no harm in asking )


Thanks again all

d'Oracle

Might be worth reading up on 5x5 or 3x5 progression.

I have been lead to believe that if you can finish the sets, then you add weight next session. If you fail on the last (or one of the last) rep or your form breaks down, you stay on the same weight.

But Im sure there is more to it than that.

Transform

d'Oracle wrote: »

Might be worth reading up on 5x5 or 3x5 progression.

I have been lead to believe that if you can finish the sets, then you add weight next session. If you fail on the last (or one of the last) rep or your form breaks down, you stay on the same weight.

But Im sure there is more to it than that.

what was said above is true - increase the weight in a small increment 2.5kg-5kg (less as the weights go up more) when you have hit your reps on all sets.

The light weight lots of reps thing is pumping - normally done at the end of a set of say chest exercises. Not a bad thing to do but fairly useless if you have not built up a decent base strength first i.e. you can squat/deadlift your own body weight, do 20+ press ups and do at least 8 full pullups (must do a full lock out of the arms at the bottom).

Finally, for me i couldn't give a toss if a guy has good arms and is doing lots of pumping exercises with light weights etc Now if he/she was doing some split squats, step ups, lunges etc with say 15kg dumbbells in each hand i would be impressed enough. Otherwise its just pretty boy training

TommyKnocker

Hi

I remember reading somewhere that 5x5/3x5 was more geared towards strength gains where as 3x8-12 was more geared towards size gains.

Transform is a PT so would know much more about this than I would.


Best Regards,

Michael

sfag

B-Builder wrote: »

Hi

I remember reading somewhere that 5x5/3x5 was more geared towards strength gains where as 3x8-12 was more geared towards size gains.

Transform is a PT so would know much more about this than I would.


Best Regards,

Michael

Apparently that is so.
Some BB's do even higher volume of reps.

fwiw....
When you are starting its all good.
It should never be easy - failure on last rep of last set.
Keep it fast.

Hanley

Transform wrote: »

(must do a full lock out of the arms at the bottom).

Ouch

haha

ih8northsiders

Bodybuilder-high reps aim for hypertrophy or whatever its called.

low reps is more for pure strength gains which this forum has a bias towards.

ragg

Rep counting is what it is - your muscles have no idea what you are pushing, they are good for a target, but if you have more in the tank throw in a few more and add weight next time.

What i do for progression is do 5 * 5 when starting a new weight. once i can do that I aim for 3* 8, then 4 * 8. Maybe sets of 12 if im still not sure.

I also lift using a tempo and always keep rest times constant, its a little anal, but at least i know any strength gains are real and not as a result of lifting faster, resting longer etc..

Like Transform says, the key question is "Am i getting Stronger?"

Transform

ragg wrote: »

Rep counting is what it is - your muscles have no idea what you are pushing, they are good for a target, but if you have more in the tank throw in a few more and add weight next time.

What i do for progression is do 5 * 5 when starting a new weight. once i can do that I aim for 3* 8, then 4 * 8. Maybe sets of 12 if im still not sure.

I also lift using a tempo and always keep rest times constant, its a little anal, but at least i know any strength gains are real and not as a result of lifting faster, resting longer etc..

Like Transform says, the key question is "Am i getting Stronger?"

most people throw up the most silly reasons for rep ranges yet the over riding factor needs to be progress in weight being lifted.

Even the so called BIG guys in most gyms are pound for pound not actually that strong e.g. a 5ft 10inch 75kg guy does a 150kg deadlift/squat - sounds impressive.

A 5 foot 10inch 110kg guy does a 210kg deadlift/squat sounds way more impressive yet pound for pound the lighter guy is stronger and i would say he is in better shape because i have seen lots of big fat guys lifing so called big weights that do not impress me yet am wayyyyy more impressed when i see a lighter guy/girl do good lifts that pound for pound show they are stronger.

ragg

Got to agree dude I'm more into lean and strong then heavy and strong, but that's just my personal taste etc... Whats your opinions on how i progress? I'm a bit of a freak about keeping everything constant :rolleyes: