Honest about Santa

Tim Robbins

Hi,
I have heard of some parents being honest about Santa with their kids i.e. telling them he doesn't exist.

What are your views of this?

Some academics have also made the point that this approach means you are not lieing to your kids and can develope a better sense of trust between parent and child.

What you think?

I am not sure where I sit on it. Basically I never believed in Santa and I'd be a bit worried if they hadn't coped on by 6 - 7.

Up to that, I think I'll just be a bit fuzzy on the issue. I hate lieing but I think dropping them the facts on this issue might be a bit OTT even for someone like me.

Tell us what you think?

Thanks.

big syke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Hi,
I have heard of some parents being honest about Santa with their kids i.e. telling them he doesn't exist.

What are your views of this?

Some academics have also made the point that this approach means you are not lieing to your kids and can develope a better sense of trust between parent and child.

What you think?

I am not sure where I sit on it. Basically I never believed in Santa and I'd be a bit worried if they hadn't coped on by 6 - 7.

Up to that, I think I'll just be a bit fuzzy on the issue. I hate lieing but I think dropping them the facts on this issue might be a bit OTT even for someone like me.

Tell us what you think?

Thanks.

Telling them the truth at a young age could alienate them from children their own age. I think the idea of Santa is great for imagination adn was one of the cornerstones and most anticipated things of my childhood... even today the thought of santa lets my imagination run wild......i think its great for imagination TBH

Quality

I am honest to a degree, My kids believe in Santa, I will always say what are you getting off santa etc etc.

My 10 year old is asking a lot of questions

I just tell her..

That if she believes in Santa he will come to her and leave her presents.

If she doesnt believe in him then I will have to buy her presents for her.


I think she thinks she will get a better deal out of Santa, cause she says she would rather he came than I got her presents.

ih8northsiders

look tbh im pretty old, in secondary school and of course i dont believe in santa but i never had my parents tell me and they know i dont believe but i havent said this directly to them maby i never will. i only ask for one thing at xmas and i still love it, my favourite few weeks of the year. keep it up dont tell them. not telling your kids about santa is not lying its a good lie.

eviltwin

I think it depends on the child really.

My daughter knew from about 9 I think. I didnt tell her but you know how kids talk in school. She asked me outright one day and so we decided that it was best to be honest.

She wasnt upset...if anything she was delighted that she could just get the cash and buy what she wanted for once!!

I think once they reach secondary school they have to know , how can they not? I'd be surprised if anyone that age still believes. Its sad because it does ruin the magic of Christmas but the last thing you want is an older child being bullied over it

January

I think I'll be telling her about Santa and that Santa brings one big present and that Mammy and Daddy give her her little presents. I've a year or so to go on the Santa front before she really understands... I may have changed my mind by then!!

mairt baby

Hi,
I have 2 young children aged 5 months and 19 months and this christmas we are so excited because he is beginning to understand a little better. My husband and I have been together several years together and we both agree that christmas is much better when you have children. But I know a day will come when they no longer believe in santa and when that time comes I won't be the one to tell them. I don't think I'm lying to them i think were just cherishing the child that they are. I sometimes think that is all thats wrong with alot of our young people now they are expected to grow up too young. Also you don't have to spend hundreds on them you could get them something small or practical just a littel something to have under the tree on christmas morning.

Tim Robbins

Interesting answers. Does anybody not find it a bit cringy they have to engage in lies to make their kids happy though?

Not trying to be confrontational on this one, just throwing it out there. I think I'll sit on the fence on the issue. Not make a big deal out of Santa but don't ruin the party at the sametime. If you know what I mean.

thorbarry

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Interesting answers. Does anybody not find it a bit cringy they have to engage in lies to make their kids happy though?

not at all. Imagination is all part of growing up. Stories, fairytales, books, films...
Are you going to tell a young child when their pet dies that he just rots in the ground? nope, he's gone to animal heaven..

Tim Robbins

thorbarry wrote: »

not at all. Imagination is all part of growing up. Stories, fairytales, books, films...

Can you not use your imagination on things that are actually not lies?
For example, nature.

Are you going to tell a young child when their pet dies that he just rots in the ground? nope, he's gone to animal heaven..

That's a tough one.

big syke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Interesting answers. Does anybody not find it a bit cringy they have to engage in lies to make their kids happy though?

Not trying to be confrontational on this one, just throwing it out there. I think I'll sit on the fence on the issue. Not make a big deal out of Santa but don't ruin the party at the sametime. If you know what I mean.

I think the cringy part would be not to take part in the whole santa thing. Not to sound corny but it really is magical for a child and i cringe at the thought of my child missing out on something like that...

thorbarry

Without sounding like a cheeseball, Christmas for me was always the best, going to bed early or else Santa wouldn't come, seeing a half eaten carrot the next morning, that Rudolf had eaten. For me i don't think telling your child at a young age would make them bond better with you, the bonding part comes with being a good parent. If you are a good paretnt your kid will bond with you

thorbarry

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Can you not use your imagination on things that are actually not lies?
For example, nature.

You can do both

Tim Robbins

thorbarry wrote: »

Without sounding like a cheeseball, Christmas for me was always the best, going to bed early or else Santa wouldn't come, seeing a half eaten carrot the next morning, that Rudolf had eaten. For me i don't think telling your child at a young age would make them bond better with you, the bonding part comes with being a good parent. If you are a good paretnt your kid will bond with you

Fair enough. I never really believed in it so I don't get what you are talking about.

kmick

Santa is not about lies. Santa is about trying to make Christmas a special time for small kids and for famillies in a harsh world. It takes special kind of joyless individual to tell their kids Santa does not exist. Anybody who tells you its better for a small child to know Santa does not exist when all his/her peers think he does is likely to have tortured small animals in their youth. Ask them next time they mention it.

thorbarry

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Fair enough. I never really believed in it so I don't get what you are talking about.

It is great believing in Santa for the time that you do, its part of childhood. Its too bad that you never did believe in Santa, I think you'll be ok tho

Tim Robbins

kmick wrote: »

Santa is not about lies. Santa is about trying to make Christmas a special time for small kids and for famillies in a harsh world. It takes special kind of joyless individual to tell their kids Santa does not exist. Anybody who tells you its better for a small child to know Santa does not exist when all his/her peers think he does is likely to have tortured small animals in their youth. Ask them next time they mention it.

I think it's sad people have to engage in lies to engage in a sense of joy.

Play a musical instrument, build something, discover nature, fancy dress, draw pictures. There's an endless list.

But I find the fantasy lies cringe inducing. It also shows that adults (and you as a parent) are capable of lieing throught your teeth to them when you feel it appropriate.

eviltwin

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I think it's sad people have to engage in lies to engage in a sense of joy.

Play a musical instrument, build something, discover nature, fancy dress, draw pictures. There's an endless list.

But I find the fantasy lies cringe inducing. It also shows that adults (and you as a parent) are capable of lieing throught your teeth to them when you feel it appropriate.

For crying out loud Tim you have said a lot of stuff that makes sense but this takes the biscut

Are you somehow saying parents who "lie" to their children about Santa are somehow bad parents? Whats going to happen then when your kid is in school and every other child is talking about Santa? Are you going to tell you child to let them all know the truth? Or would you respect that other parents have the right to tell their children when they are ready?

I read that you never had a belief in Santa...I'm not sure if your reasons for bringing up your kids the same way are to do with good parenting or maybe just a little bit of jealousy

Tim Robbins

eviltwin wrote: »

For crying out loud Tim you have said a lot of stuff that makes sense but this takes the biscut

Are you somehow saying parents who "lie" to their children about Santa are somehow bad parents? Whats going to happen then when your kid is in school and every other child is talking about Santa? Are you going to tell you child to let them all know the truth? Or would you respect that other parents have the right to tell their children when they are ready?

I'd like to push Santa into the background by nurturing a joy in real things.
So rather than say "Santa isn't true HA HA HA!" it would be more of a "let's go and play a game of Football".

I read that you never had a belief in Santa...I'm not sure if your reasons for bringing up your kids the same way are to do with good parenting or maybe just a little bit of jealousy

It's because I find the concept of lieing purely for a sense of baseless joy something very difficult to do.

I'd like my kids to know that their Dad values the truth. Big deal.

eviltwin

Right well thats fine when you're talking to an adult but you're dealing with kids and part of being a good parent is knowing how much info to give

Lets say little tim or timina aged 6 comes up and asks "where did I come from" are you planning on giving them a graphic lesson in sex ed?

Or if someone close to them dies..what are you planning on saying to ease their pain?

Of course you're going to simplify it - as a parent thats WHAT YOU DO!!!! You cannot treat your children as mini adults because they are kids and they deserve a childhood.

You know Tim there are millions of people in the world who grew up being "lied" to as you put it by their parents about santa...I'd love to meet one of them who has issues over it.

thorbarry

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'd like to push Santa into the background by nurturing a joy in real things.
So rather than say "Santa isn't true HA HA HA!" it would be more of a "let's go and play a game of Football".

Lol i really dont think that'd work. A kid asking you about Santa and you just fobbing them off and saying "lets play football".

thorbarry

Tim Robbins wrote: »

I'd like my kids to know that their Dad values the truth. Big deal.

"when i grow up i want to be a model" "sorry, your just too ugly"

"why did you and mammy split up" "because she had sex with another man"

If your child tells you a joke, you laugh at it, you dont say "ah now thats a really bad joke, its not funny at all"

Lillylilly

I never believed in Santa, and my children won't be brought up to believe in it either. I always appreciated my parents for buying me gifts- knowing that they loved me enough to choose and buy presents for me is something I cherish! Even now looking back, knowing that money wasn't plentiful!!
I agree with Tim, people shouldn't lie anyway- but I think it's a terrible thing for a parent to lie outright to their kids. I think it's taking advantage of their innocence and trust in a parent. Many of my friends were very upset when they found out Santa didn't exist.
Another earlier poster said that they felt not believing in Santa would alienate a child from it's peers- I have to disagree with this. I felt really mature and grown up that my parents trusted me with this info. They said that my friends believed, so not to ruin it for them- so I didn't!! Each to their own, but as a parent, I will teach my kids not to lie, I certainly won't be lying to them- it's very hypocritical.
And Eviltwin, there's a distinct difference in giving your child age appropriate information and encouraging them to believe that a fictitious character brings them gifts once a year!

CJhaughey

Childhood only lasts a few short years and then you are an adult and have to deal with adult cráp for the rest of your natural.
I don't think it is too much to do to ensure that your kids have the magic of Xmas for a few years, I don't think it is lying either, more the facilitation of fantasy.
There are hundreds of things that could be told straight to kids but to ease their passage into the teenage-adult world some of them could should be presented in a manner that allows them to gradually come to the truth themselves.
It would take a special type of joyless individual to tell their kids at 5 yrs that Santa is a big lie and that we the parents are responsible for stuffing your stocking on Xmas eve while you are asleep, Because it is the TRUTH.

Tim Robbins

Lillylilly wrote: »

I never believed in Santa, and my children won't be brought up to believe in it either. I always appreciated my parents for buying me gifts- knowing that they loved me enough to choose and buy presents for me is something I cherish! Even now looking back, knowing that money wasn't plentiful!!
I agree with Tim, people shouldn't lie anyway- but I think it's a terrible thing for a parent to lie outright to their kids. I think it's taking advantage of their innocence and trust in a parent. Many of my friends were very upset when they found out Santa didn't exist.
Another earlier poster said that they felt not believing in Santa would alienate a child from it's peers- I have to disagree with this. I felt really mature and grown up that my parents trusted me with this info. They said that my friends believed, so not to ruin it for them- so I didn't!! Each to their own, but as a parent, I will teach my kids not to lie, I certainly won't be lying to them- it's very hypocritical.
And Eviltwin, there's a distinct difference in giving your child age appropriate information and encouraging them to believe that a fictitious character brings them gifts once a year!

Fair play Lillylilly. How refreshing to hear all that.

Some my friends told me they found it very distressing when they found out Santa wasn't true so did my Sister.

I just don't want to do that to my kids.

Khannie

thorbarry wrote: »

Lol i really dont think that'd work. A kid asking you about Santa and you just fobbing them off and saying "lets play football".

Haha. Me either. Reminded me of the McDonalds ad though.

eviltwin

Show me one adult damaged as a result of hearing the truth about Santa

Its funny the two posters who dont want their kids to believe are the sames ones who never had a belief themselves. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Tim Robbins

eviltwin wrote: »

Show me one adult damaged as a result of hearing the truth about Santa

I already did. My sister said she found it traumatic so did some other friends.

Its funny the two posters who dont want their kids to believe are the sames ones who never had a belief themselves. I think that has a lot to do with it.

Also two people who don't like lieing...

thorbarry

eviltwin wrote: »

Show me one adult damaged as a result of hearing the truth about Santa

Its funny the two posters who dont want their kids to believe are the sames ones who never had a belief themselves. I think that has a lot to do with it.

yea it looks that way.... i suppose you cant really understand something unless you did it....like we think its great to believe in Santa because we believed in him.. but the others don't see the big deal because they never believed in him.. So i guess it really depends in yourself as a person

Nevyn

Tim Robbins you are entitled to rear your children in a fashion you see fit and so are the other parents who post here.

Parenting forum charter

Please remember that there are many different ways and styles of parenting
and if you disagree with someone then agree to disagree and keep things civil as per the rules.

Lillylilly

eviltwin wrote: »

Show me one adult damaged as a result of hearing the truth about Santa

Its funny the two posters who dont want their kids to believe are the sames ones who never had a belief themselves. I think that has a lot to do with it.

A lot of parents find it hard to break the tradition of their own childhood when they have their own kids.

Also, getting presents in brilliant!!! The trauma of learning that there is no Santa is often softened by the fact that the kids know they're still gonna get presents!! I just think we can all give our kids presents and avoid unnecessary trauma!!!

thorbarry

Lillylilly wrote: »

Also, getting presents in brilliant!!! The trauma of learning that there is no Santa is often softened by the fact that the kids know they're still gonna get presents!! I just think we can all give our kids presents and avoid unnecessary trauma!!!

lol yea presents are great Even if you don't believe in Santa, its not ruining Christmas or anything, its still a great time of year... altho it never is a s good as was when you were a kid is it. The excitement of legging it down stairs at 5am is great

Nevyn

This was one I gave a fair bit of consideration to when I had my own.
I am not one to just go with the status quo cos everyone else is and but I think that wonderment and awe are and should be part of a child's upbringing.
Mine see magic in many ways and in many places.
Hugs are magical, as are flowers and many other things.

When it comes to Santa they would have been the odd children speaking out
as lets face it 4 years olds do and mine are rather out spoken children ( no idea where they got that from what so ever :P ).

As for lying, I make a point of not doing so to my children at all,
I value the trust and relationship I have with them, I don't make promises I can't keep and will often say, maybe and we will see rather then say yes when circumstances are beyond my control.

I never sat them down and told them about Santa, they told me about him,
there is more then enough common folk lore for them to pick up and we have had discussion on where Santa comes from and I don't mean the north pole.
They both loved Terry Pratchett hogsfather and understand the power of traditions and people who believe in them.

Thye both know that if you don't believe in Santa he does not bring you presents and your parents get them for you, if and when they choose not to believe any more is up to them.

The fact that Norad has a santa tracking site is something which weighed in heavily on the is or isn't Santa real for them both, so it's not parents lying to kids it is a full on adult conspiracy with a lot of 'evidence' on the yes side. Yup my kids use critcal thinking and know what occams razor is and it think it's just about 'killed' Santa.

Last year I think was the last year tbh, neither of them has some out and said flat out there is no Santa, but they have both asked about getting Xor Y for christmas rather then will Santa bring me, which considering they are 11 and 9 is good going.

Is Santa a big fat lie or is he a traditional preformace piece which we all take part in to bring joy? There is art in magic and magic in art and both are needed as far as I am concerned.

big syke

In trying to keep within charter rules Tim, i completely and utterly disagree with everything you have to say about santa and their being better ways to get your children to use imagination.

And again trying to stay on topic and keep within charter rules etc many of your posts over the last day or two make it seem like your trying and rub people up the wrong way. to get a reaction. Just my two cents.

Tim Robbins

big syke wrote: »

In trying to keep within charter rules Tim, i completely and utterly disagree with everything you have to say about santa and their being better ways to get your children to use imagination.

And again trying to stay on topic and keep within charter rules etc many of your posts over the last day or two make it seem like your trying and rub people up the wrong way. to get a reaction. Just my two cents.

No I take a different viewpoint which obviously in this forum is clearly in the minority and I'll happily argue / discuss / defend what I think.

If you don't like the reasons you don't like them. Each to his / her own.

Nevyn

I don't think it is your reasons, but the way you are expressing them.
They are coming across as hostile accuatory and antagonisitic and we have a term for that it's trollish.

If you do want a good, intresting and civil discussion on this, great but getting people's backs up will not result in that type of discussion and is not welcome here.

big syke

Tim Robbins wrote: »

No I take a different viewpoint which obviously in this forum is clearly in the minority and I'll happily argue / discuss / defend what I think.

If you don't like the reasons you don't like them. Each to his / her own.

I am all for discussions and having differing opinions but but the language and how you reply rubs people up the wrong way.

Replys like

Can you not use your imagination on things that are actually not lies

I think it's sad people have to engage in lies to engage in a sense of joy.

It also shows that adults (and you as a parent) are capable of lieing throught your teeth to them when you feel it appropriate.

I'd like my kids to know that their Dad values the truth. Big deal.

are condescending, trollish and are trying to provoke other posters. I dont think i am alone in thinking this neither...

Max Power1

Quality wrote: »

I am honest to a degree, My kids believe in Santa, I will always say what are you getting off santa etc etc.

My 10 year old is asking a lot of questions

I just tell her..

That if she believes in Santa he will come to her and leave her presents.

If she doesnt believe in him then I will have to buy her presents for her.


I think she thinks she will get a better deal out of Santa, cause she says she would rather he came than I got her presents.

I have to say thats just genius! Never heard that approach before!

thorbarry

big syke wrote: »

are condescending, trollish and are trying to provoke other posters. I dont think i am alone in thinking this neither...

I concur

Nevyn

OK Back on topic please, hopefully Tim Robbins will take into consideration what has been pointed out to him, if anyone has any futher issues with posts please don't comment on them in the thread just report them for the mods to deal with. Thanks.

mark renton

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Hi,
I have heard of some parents being honest about Santa with their kids i.e. telling them he doesn't exist.

What are your views of this?

Some academics have also made the point that this approach means you are not lieing to your kids and can develope a better sense of trust between parent and child.

What you think?

I am not sure where I sit on it. Basically I never believed in Santa and I'd be a bit worried if they hadn't coped on by 6 - 7.

Up to that, I think I'll just be a bit fuzzy on the issue. I hate lieing but I think dropping them the facts on this issue might be a bit OTT even for someone like me.

Tell us what you think?

Thanks.

WHAT!! theres no such thing as Santa?? :mad:

Noffles

As soon as kids are old enough to discuss it in school there'll always be the one kid who knows there is no such thing and they take great pleasure in telling the others... then the kids get home and start asking questions... the end of the Santa stuff... not the end of the world as the kids still get the prezzies....

mark renton

Noffles wrote: »

As soon as kids are old enough to discuss it in school there'll always be the one kid who knows there is no such thing and they take great pleasure in telling the others

Noffles wrote: »

then the kids get home and start asking questions... the end of the Santa stuff... not the end of the world as the kids still get the prezzies....

materialistic from the beginning

Love2love

I would never want my child to miss out on the magic of Christmas. Its so wonderful for them to believe that there is one man who can travel the world in a single night delivering presents to children all over the globe.

I believe that by taking away Santa... you take away all of the magic of Christmas to a child. Every book, film, song ect is made up of this man in a red suit. So therefore all of them become null and void to a child that doesn't believe. That to me is very sad.

ih8northsiders

i found out in school about santa when i was 7 but there was no chance i was gonna let that ruin my christmas. i just blocked it out and for those few weeks let my imagination run wild.....in a lot of ways i still do.

mumto3

For me,it was the magic of santa and not the toys he brought that made mychristmass,when i was young.That feeling of excitment in my tummy going to bed,thinking he was going to come down the chimney and reward me for all my hard work tru out the year.
With kids of my own now,i still have that fussy feeling knowing that they are reliving that experience each year.
My oldest is 9 now,and still believes,no questions asked,and it will break my heart when he finds out.
He also believes in tooth fairy,as do my younger two.They are only kids,its their jobs to be useing their imagination,and have belief that anything is possible.Let them enjoy it for the short time that they do.
Dont be a grinch!!!

Tim Robbins

Love2love wrote: »

I would never want my child to miss out on the magic of Christmas. Its so wonderful for them to believe that there is one man who can travel the world in a single night delivering presents to children all over the globe.

I believe that by taking away Santa... you take away all of the magic of Christmas to a child. Every book, film, song ect is made up of this man in a red suit. So therefore all of them become null and void to a child that doesn't believe. That to me is very sad.

Would you not find it more fascinating the way birds fly across the world in seasonal migration?

Or that there are stars in the sky light years away?

Just curious...

thorbarry

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Would you not find it more fascinating the way birds fly across the world in seasonal migration?

Or that there are stars in the sky light years away?

Just curious...

I was fascinated with both them things.. and Santa. It doesn't have to be one or the other

Love2love

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Would you not find it more fascinating the way birds fly across the world in seasonal migration?

Or that there are stars in the sky light years away?

Just curious...

Yes I do but I'd love to see you explain that to a 3 year old. And as the previous poster said... Why is it one or the other????

Also, are you also going to prevent your children from reading books as they also contain ficitious characters or will it strictly be dictionaries and encyclopedias in the Robbins household?

I am very curious to know why you started this thread if you weren't actually open to anyone else opinion unless it agrees with you own?

Tim Robbins

Love2love wrote: »

Yes I do but I'd love to see you explain that to a 3 year old. And as the previous poster said... Why is it one or the other????

Because one is true, the other is a lie.

Also, are you also going to prevent your children from reading books as they also contain ficitious characters or will it strictly be dictionaries and encyclopedias in the Robbins household?

No because the book doesn't claim they are true.

I am very curious to know why you started this thread if you weren't actually open to anyone else opinion unless it agrees with you own?

Of course I am open to it.
That's just like me saying why is anyone here posting unless they agree with me?

I am just not hearing any good arguments. Just things like: don't be a "grinch". Which is just name calling. Not a good argument imo.

thorbarry

Tim Robbins wrote: »

Because one is true, the other is a lie.


No because the book doesn't claim they are true.



Of course I am open to it.
That's just like me saying why is anyone here posting unless they agree with me?

I am just not hearing any good arguments. Just things like: don't be a "grinch". Which is just name calling. Not a good argument imo.

It seems like your main argument is that you are lying to your children. What about some of my other posts about this? Would you tell your kid that they are too fat and ugly to be a model, or too thick to be an accountant.. or that their dead pet rots in the ground and doesn't go to animal heaven.

"my friend says rover is in animal heaven "
"don't be crazy, its not in animal heaven, its dead"