Milk Rounds

loctite

A quick question,

Applied to big 4 in milk rounds year when in final year of my undergrad (Accounting & Finance).
I had finished within the to 10% of my class (for the second year), my applications I considered above average, but yet, off some of the firms, I didn't even receive a PFO.

I'm curious as to whether should apply this year. Do the big4's only accept undergrad applications in the milk rounds? and if not what are the chances of even being considered. With a hoard of graduates who didn't get a place last year plus, the new stream of graduates coming online this May/June.

Optimism is my strong point!!

(Before someone advises to look at smaller firms, they don't seem to be hiring either from my experience. Of all the written applications, not one PFO... whats wrong with the accounting profession. Can they not do the courtesy of replying to applications??)

collegeme

I understand your pain - i finished 1st in one of my F&A years and was not accepted by any of them for a summer internship :mad:. I even won an award sponsored by them - i truely believe "who" you know will help

ronbyrne2005

I always found people with sporting backgrounds did well and got places ahead of the more academic students.

collegeme

ronbyrne2005 wrote: »

I always found people with sporting backgrounds did well and got places ahead of the more academic students.

Why would that be a major factor?? I am applying to them this month and am not feeling very positive. I have experience in book-keeping etc as i went to college as a mature student and will be 28 when i'm finished my degree. Will my previous work experience help at all??

The Big Red Button

There's definitely no harm applying. And maybe get someone from the Careers office in your college to have a look over the application before you submit it.

What have you been doing in the past year? If you've managed to pick up any kind of relevant experience, obviously that would definitely work in your favour.

And no, they don't only accept undergrads, although I would assume that most of their applicants are at that stage.

pepp

collegeme wrote: »

i went to college as a mature student and will be 28 when i'm finished my degree.

Took me three years to get a position and it is in a smaller firm, must have sent hundreds of applications, but I did do a masters degree in between. They never reply to you if you don't get a job or even sometimes an interview I agree its rude to leave you hanging.

collegeme

pepp wrote: »

Took me three years to get a position and it is in a smaller firm, must have sent hundreds of applications, but I did do a masters degree in between. They never reply to you if you don't get a job or even sometimes an interview I agree its rude to leave you hanging.

Am going to do the masters if i don't get accepted. Then i'll have CAP1 & 2 exemptions. The college are constantly going on about the fact that the big 4 etc are looking for graduates and these bad times are not an exception. K**G are even heading into the college tomorrow to talk to us about the recruitment needs - a bit confusing really

Stabshauptmann

Well, obviously a strong academic performance will stand to you, but I think a lot of emphasis is put on rounded individuals. So sporting, music, etc achievments should be highlighted imo.

I know it was a different climate, but I had two interviews back in the day. The first one a manager quizzed me on my technical knowledge and what I knew about the firm / department.
In the other interview a Partner chatted away to me about the places Id travelled to, and the places they had been to.
Hope that helps some.

Any body have any ideas what chance someone who didnt go to college would have of getting in via the milkrounds? I have a friend who wants to apply; 3 years work experience in FS but no college qualifications.

Any advice for them?

pepp

Think it would be tough you can't sit chartered exams without a degree or technicians qualification as far as I know

prinz

Stabshauptmann wrote: »

Well, obviously a strong academic performance will stand to you, but I think a lot of emphasis is put on rounded individuals....
In the other interview a Partner chatted away to me about the places Id travelled to, and the places they had been to.
Hope that helps some.

+1 on this. I got taken on by a small firm 2 years ago when I was out of college a few months having never studied accountancy before. The nearest I had come was Business Studies in first year of secondary and I dropped that because I hated it. I was afraid I was going to be quizzed on accountancy/business etc in my interview but spent the entire interview chatting about my past jobs (all non-finance related), travels, my gf. They said later that they look for someone who 'fits in' with the office atmosphere and other staff and not necessarily the most qualified or experienced. So take up something like learning a language or a new sport.. I would not recommend lying as I have heard of people being found out.

babbar sher

collegeme wrote: »

Why would that be a major factor?? I am applying to them this month and am not feeling very positive. I have experience in book-keeping etc as i went to college as a mature student and will be 28 when i'm finished my degree. Will my previous work experience help at all??

From my experience and insight, they go for sporting students because they think a sportsperson as being highly enthusiastic, competitive and also a teamplayer cos they play as a part of a team in a match. These 3 attributes that are found in sportspersons are the 3 major characteristics the big firms look for in a person. So if you are a good sportsperson then they tend to believe you have some level of these attributes in you.

I hope that makes sense.

crapmanjoe

babbar sher wrote: »

From my experience and insight, they go for sporting students because they think a sportsperson as being highly enthusiastic, competitive and also a teamplayer cos they play as a part of a team in a match. These 3 attributes that are found in sportspersons are the 3 major characteristics the big firms look for in a person. So if you are a good sportsperson then they tend to believe you have some level of these attributes in you.

I hope that makes sense.

U May have missed the deadline for this year. I know my firm was doing graduate interviews all this week. Lots of bright eyed college kids around the place today

Alyosha

I don't tihnk the deadline has passed for the "Big 4" anyway, friends of mine are only throwing their applications in now.

Aside from PwC/KPMG/EY/Deloitte you'd want to be applying to Grant Thornton, Mazars and BDO anyway. All seven of those firms have (similar) online application forms. I'm not aware of any other accountancy firms that participate in the "milkround", but there's no harm in firing your CV off to the rest of the medium sized firms when you're going through the process and in "interview" mode. Or at least keeping these firms in mind if you're unsuccesful in the milkround.

A decent starting list can be found here:
http://www.financejobs.ie/display_image.php?id=2051&art_id=7779

As regards the application forms, just a few points from my experience going through the whole thing last year:

Emphasise any team activities you've been involved in. Anything charitable looks good. Don't lie on the form, there's a good chance you'll be found out. Check the application for punctuation etc before submitting it. If you've ever spent any sort of time abroad (language school, exchange student, volunteering etc), mention it. Could be a great talking point.

Try and keep your answers short and to the point, and be prepared to spend 2-3 minutes talking about anything you put down. This is a really important point in my opinion, as the interviewer could pick up on the smallest thing. For example, I spent about 5 minutes talking about my school to a Big 4 partner. He used to play gaelic against us......so then I rambled on about playing his college a few times blah blah blah. Good way to break the ice I suppose but not exactly what I was "prepared" for.

And finally, with the year that's in it....know your NAMA. This time last year it was all about Northern Rock and Seán Quinn. I would be amazed if you're not asked about your opinion on NAMA in at least one interview.

kabuk1

collegeme wrote: »

The college are constantly going on about the fact that the big 4 etc are looking for graduates and these bad times are not an exception. K**G are even heading into the college tomorrow to talk to us about the recruitment needs - a bit confusing really

Recruitment is and always will be a huge aspect of the larger firms. They may have to cut down on the number of students recruited, making the selection even that more competitive, but they will always be recruiting. It's how they run the business. Trainees have a very integral role in the company, even though it doesn't seem like it. However, when you think about it, how many qualified accountants would be willing to take on the role the trainee does and for the same pay. Not many, if any at all (thought some might in this climate).

You have to forget about your academics when it comes to applying. They'll have your transcripts and will be able to see you marks. You need to differentiate yourself from everyone else. Focus on team activities, the current economic climate and other interests. They are more interested in getting to know you and your personality. Look at the characteristics they are looking for and think about things you've done in your life that will show them you have those qualities.

I am at a big4, just through my first year. I have an undergrad in English with average to slightly above average marks. I was a year and a half removed from my degree when I interviewed. I had no experience in accountancy or business. I never even took a college course in relation to it. I did play up my other experiences, sighting examples to show them that I'm a team player with leadership skills. For example, I was the editor and production manager for my college Literary magazine, the secretary for the Student Government Association, a volunteer and was involved in many other college activities. Plus, as I was a mature college student and applicant, I use referred to previous work experience.

Read, read, read the website before completing your application and again before the interview. Know their website. They want to know you will be committed to them.

Best of luck to all of you. I'd give you my place if I could.

KenHy

Definitely mirror what people are saying about non-academic experiences, my results were ok, but not great but still got a job with big 4, (although currently doing masters). When I was preparing for my interview I was lucky enough to know someone who works in HR in a different big 4 firm and they told me that if I even got an interview they were already happy with my academic achievements and they want to see what type of person you are. In my interview I don't think academia cam up once, it was all about extra-curricular activities in college and what my opinion of current affairs was.

collegeme

kabuk1 wrote: »

You have to forget about your academics when it comes to applying. They'll have your transcripts and will be able to see you marks. You need to differentiate yourself from everyone else. Focus on team activities, the current economic climate and other interests. They are more interested in getting to know you and your personality. Look at the characteristics they are looking for and think about things you've done in your life that will show them you have those qualities.

Great info .
I'm not a sporty person at all , i have a young child and along with ft college and pt job dont have much time for being involved in sports or ANY other kind of charity work etc.

kabuk1

collegeme wrote: »

Great info .
I'm not a sporty person at all , i have a young child and along with ft college and pt job dont have much time for being involved in sports or ANY other kind of charity work etc.

You may not have sports or the like, but managing a child, ft studies and a pt job says a lot. I work with someone who just qualified and is now out of contract. She has a son and had to manage the 3 things before starting at the Big4. It's very much doable. She also just received a contract extension.

collegeme

kabuk1 wrote: »

You may not have sports or the like, but managing a child, ft studies and a pt job says a lot. I work with someone who just qualified and is now out of contract. She has a son and had to manage the 3 things before starting at the Big4. It's very much doable. She also just received a contract extension.

I have been thinking about it a lot. I obviously couldn't mention it on my application, could I?

fullback master

does anyone know if mazars sponsor a masters or just wants you to come working after you finish your degree?

johnn

Has anyone heard back from any of the big 4 yet about interviews?

I also applied last year & didnt get any offers after interviews with PWC & Deloitte, but have since done the PDA, so was expecting at least interviews this year.

Last year i had already received interview offers from PWC & Grant Thornton by the friday, and i think it was the monday Deloitte rang me about an interview.

Starting to get worried!

maven

johnn wrote: »

Has anyone heard back from any of the big 4 yet about interviews?....

Starting to get worried!

I heard back from kpmg bout an interview but also applied to deloitte and pwc and yet to hear from them....

I don't know how they're getting back to people but hopefully it's just taking them a while to get through all the applications!

leanne249

maven wrote: »

I heard back from kpmg bout an interview but also applied to deloitte and pwc and yet to hear from them....

I don't know how they're getting back to people but hopefully it's just taking them a while to get through all the applications!

Hi maven do you mind me asking when did you get reply from KPMG? I applied to KPMG, PWC and Deloitte and no replies so far…

maven

Hey Leanne, I heard back from KPMG on Saturday about an interview for audit, but my first choice was business performance...

I know of one friend who applied for tax who heard back & also heard from Pwc...

Hope that helps... I'm still quite confused as to whether no news is good news or what, here's hoping!

leanne249

Thank you maven for your reply. I think that no news could be unfortunately bad news. Trying to stay positive but can’t. Just keep going over and over in my head what possibly went wrong with my applications. Ah well ,nothing I can do now….just wait and hope for the best…

misterme

I've got a KPMG assessment centre this week coming.

Does anyone know what the business exercise is? haven't a clue what to expect.

Or what the 2 interviews might cover?

tywy

Business exercise is just dealing with a few emails... mostly time management, how to deal with being given work that you don't have time to do etc. Then you've to write an essay on something topical. Everyone at the desk gets a different topic.

2 interviews are fairly similar. One with a manager then one with a director or partner as far as I remember.

Hope this helps.

misterme

That does help actually. Thanks!

In the business exercise do you have to hand in your essay or do some kind of presentation? And do they just give you a topic? Like a very general topic?

It seems like alot to do in half an hour. In the timetable it says '30 minute business exercise'.

kabuk1

misterme wrote: »

That does help actually. Thanks!

In the business exercise do you have to hand in your essay or do some kind of presentation? And do they just give you a topic? Like a very general topic?

It seems like alot to do in half an hour. In the timetable it says '30 minute business exercise'.

Yes, the essay is turned in, but you don't have to give a presentation. The topic usually relates to current events. It's not to specific, but it's specific enough. They are looking to see that you aware of the current economic climate/business affair, and they also want to see that you're able to express your thoughts clearly in writing.

prinz

misterme wrote: »

In the business exercise do you have to hand in your essay or do some kind of presentation? And do they just give you a topic? Like a very general topic?

When you write the essay be sure to throw in a few buzz words like 'going forward' and 'current economic climate' etc. Read the business sections of the newspapers, especially on the big issues, the banks, NAMA and that. I would suggest using a highlighter to mark the terms and descriptions that turn up over and over.

johnn

maven wrote: »

I heard back from kpmg bout an interview but also applied to deloitte and pwc and yet to hear from them....

I don't know how they're getting back to people but hopefully it's just taking them a while to get through all the applications!

Do you mind me asking when did you submit your application? i submitted mine on deadline day and a friend of mine who works there said they may be working through them in the order they were received.

Other than that from experience, no news tends to be bad news, and you receive a rejection probably next week sometime

just-joe

I applied for all four in the couple of days before the close, and have only heard from Deloitte (presentation on Tuesday, 3 hour interview/assessment on Thursday). But I would like to get at least one other interview, hopefully no news isn't bad news?! Is anyone else going to the Deloitte presentation?

And if anyone could explain a bit more about how the etray/inbox exercise works, that would be great!

johnn

There was no excercise involved with Deloitte last year, it was just presentation & then interview so i dont know.

Last year as I said i had heard from all the people i got interviews from by this stage & then about a week or so later received rejections from all the rest. So that is why im worried as i havent received any offers yet this year, i suppose i have received an interview previously with 3 of the big 4 so that probably isnt working in my favour.

The excercise is probably similar to the KPMG one, you get a series of emails which arrive at intervals, and you have to deal with each problem, you're given like half and hour to deal with 15 e-mails i think it was. Just time-management and problem solving, no way to prepare for it really

maven

johnn wrote: »

Do you mind me asking when did you submit your application? i submitted mine on deadline day and a friend of mine who works there said they may be working through them in the order they were received.

Other than that from experience, no news tends to be bad news, and you receive a rejection probably next week sometime

Hey johnn, I submitted my application on deadline day as well...

Supposedly deloitte have been calling people today to let them know they have an interview but still haven't heard from them? Has any one heard any thing from deloitte?

leanne249

maven wrote: »

Hey johnn, I submitted my application on deadline day as well...

Supposedly deloitte have been calling people today to let them know they have an interview but still haven't heard from them? Has any one heard any thing from deloitte?

Hi Maven I just heard from Deloitte. They rang me about an hour ago and send to me an email to confirm the dates for the career information event and interview

maven

leanne249 wrote: »

Hi Maven I just heard from Deloitte. They rang me about an hour ago and send to me an email to confirm the dates for the career information event and interview

Thanks Leanne, congrats on that! Still waiting to hear back from them but 1 out of 3 is fine sure!

tywy

Just looking back at my emails from 07, just in case people are wondering about a time frame, I submitted my application to KPMG on Oct 16 and received an email about an interview on Oct 21. Filled in Deloitte on Oct 17, got an email on Oct 24. Filled in PWC on Oct 18, got an email on Oct 24.

The closing date was Oct 18th that year.

Fingers crossed you'll all hear soon!

johnn

Just got home and received an email from Ernst & Young asking me to fill out an online test and send it back to them to decide if i go on to the next stage, ive never got anything from them last year so happy enough, i thought i wasnt going to get anything for a while there so its a bit of, a relief to finally hear from someone, anyone else hear from them tonight?

Asprilla

I got the same from Ernst and Young. I completed the application on wednesday. The email about the test came on thursday. I did the online tests and got an email back to say that they will be in touch in the coming weeks. I also got an interview with Deloitte. Havent heard from KPMG or PWC yet.

Maggie21

I got an email from PWC on Friday evening offering me an interview. There is a presentation on Wednesday next week and I had to register for an interview for the following Monday. Has anyone heard from Mazars or BDO yet?

Shellie

awww no I applied to PWC last thursday but havent heard anything yet, guess thats not a good sign

misterme

What recent events/ information do people think we should read up on?

I've never had an interview for this kind of thing before so don't really have a clue what kind of thing they'll ask.

leanne249

I sent my application form for PWC on Wednesday and still didn't heard anything yet. But for some reason I got from PWC on Friday evening the same confirmation email that they received my application. Just curious why did they sent me twice the same email.

leanne249

misterme wrote: »

What recent events/ information do people think we should read up on?

I've never had an interview for this kind of thing before so don't really have a clue what kind of thing they'll ask.

definitely I think you should read about NAMA

john_this

Hey Guys,

I applied to nearly all available accounting graduate programmes, some non big 4. I have a 2.1 and full CAP 1 exemptions, and have previously worked for Pwc and 2 other big finance/accounting firms.

So, far I have 2 interviews with 2 non-big 4 companies (Mazars and HBC) and have done the online aptitude test with Ernest & Young. Although I have yet to receive any offers/rejections from PWC, KPMG, Deloitte, BDO, Grant Thornton, so if you have still not heard back from any of these companies I think you should not be disheartened, I believe that there are more than usual amount of applications this year, as many finance/banking firms do not have any graduate programmes. I will keep you posted on any updates with my applications ;-)

dny123456

johnn wrote: »

Just got home and received an email from Ernst & Young asking me to fill out an online test and send it back to them to decide if i go on to the next stage, ive never got anything from them last year so happy enough, i thought i wasnt going to get anything for a while there so its a bit of, a relief to finally hear from someone, anyone else hear from them tonight?

Hi John, yes my friend got an online test thing last week. He filled out in around half an hour and heard back today about going to presentation on Nov 1st and interview on Nov 4th. He's quite excited to even get to interview stage. Fingers crossed. He hasn't heard anything from PWC, KPMG or Deloitte yet.

leanne249

Hi all, Just received a rejection email from KPMG. Still waiting for PWC.....

dny123456

yeah, my friend just got his PFO from Kpmg too.

musky

babbar sher wrote: »

From my experience and insight, they go for sporting students because they think a sportsperson as being highly enthusiastic, competitive and also a teamplayer cos they play as a part of a team in a match. These 3 attributes that are found in sportspersons are the 3 major characteristics the big firms look for in a person. So if you are a good sportsperson then they tend to believe you have some level of these attributes in you.

I hope that makes sense.

Its the balance that a sportsperson can bring, the ability to dig deep when required and decision making under pressure. My bro (sportsman) was in pwc for a photo shoot this year and the partner was all over him like a rash.

Its not fair to those who study like mad and get great results but thats just one of those things.

johnn

I put down that I was captain of my football team & I also put down that I was heavily involved in societies in college, i didnt go into too much depth about the sports though, just basically put down i helped fund-raise & it was a great way of keeping fit and meeting new people etc.

I assumed that if i went on about football it would become monotonous as i thought it would probably be on 9/10 peoples applications.

I genuinely cant think of anything i put wrong on KPMG's application except for maybe my "successful company" wasn't unique enough, I put down Apple Inc.

misterme

I put down Apple too haha. I knew loads would though.

Do you think we would need to know about the company we put on our application for our interview?

just-joe

Hey again,

yeah I chose Google for the KPMG company thing, musn't have been good enough though cos I got rejected! Its weird everyone seems to be hearing from them in different orders, but it does look like if you haven't heard anything then its not good news.. So my situation is:

Deloitte-have interview
BDO - have interview
E&Y - filled in the questionnaire and got an email saying they'd get in touch "in the coming weeks"

KPMG - rejected yesterday

PWC - haven't heard yet which is kinda annoying got the best vibes from their website and wanted them the most!