Fine Gael....Spineless.

partyguinness

The last 24 hours have really shown up Fine Gael for what they are....utterly spineless and gutless.

As the main opposition party they would have been expected to take the lead in demanding the resignation of John O'Donoughue.

But no...not Enda "Mr Nice But Dim" Kenny.

FG were "gazumped".

This party and Enda Kenny have notions about leading the next Gov, making tough decisions and showing leadership.

It was Sinn Fein, the Greens and Labour that grabed the bull by the horns (yeah I know) and demanded his resignation.

What type of leadership is that!

But apparently Enda Kenny didnt want to politicise the issue. What utter tripe! John O'D is an elected politician using taxpayers money. It was a political issue.

Enda Kenny maintained this charade because he (and FG) are spinless and gutless.

His actions (or lack thereof) have showed this up and not for the first time

Biggins

Spineless, complacent cowards... nothing new there!

hallelujajordan

partyguinness wrote: »

The last 24 hours have really shown up Fine Gael for what they are....utterly spineless and gutless.

As the main opposition party they would have been expected to take the lead in demanding the resignation of John O'Donoughue.

But no...not Enda "Mr Nice But Dim" Kenny.

FG were "gazumped".

This party and Enda Kenny have notions about leading the next Gov, making tough decisions and showing leadership.

It was Sinn Fein, the Greens and Labour that grabed the bull by the horns (yeah I know) and demanded his resignation.

What type of leadership is that!

But apparently Enda Kenny didnt want to politicise the issue. What utter tripe! John O'D is an elected politician using taxpayers money. It was a political issue.

Enda Kenny maintained this charade beacuse he (and FG) are spinless and gutless.

His actions (or lack thereof) have showed this up and not for the first time

Couldn't agree more . . . !

What I don't understand is . . Why did the other party leaders not at leasat agree to meet Gilmore and argue the odds . . It seems odd that they would just leave him to drop the hammer like that and it equally seems odd that Enda would not have seen what was coming and jumped first ! As it stands, he now looks like a bumbling eejit who kept changing his mind yesterday and Gilmore has stolen the moral high ground . . You do wonder how this will work with Kenny as Taoiseach and Gilmore as Tanaiste.

Biggins

hallelujajordan wrote: »

You do wonder how this will work with Kenny as Taoiseach and Gilmore as Tanaiste.

The word "farcical" comes immediately to mind.

partyguinness

Another problem...they are all cut from the same cloth...

J O'D apparently is a nice guy who gives the opposition lots of air time in the Dail...Enda Kenny didnt want to see his ould buddy being treated badly..

Nobody has any balls.

optocynic

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Couldn't agree more . . . !

What I don't understand is . . Why did the other party leaders not at leasat agree to meet Gilmore and argue the odds . . It seems odd that they would just leave him to drop the hammer like that and it equally seems odd that Enda would not have seen what was coming and jumped first ! As it stands, he now looks like a bumbling eejit who kept changing his mind yesterday and Gilmore has stolen the moral high ground . . You do wonder how this will work with Kenny as Taoiseach and Gilmore as Tanaiste.

My guess is, Gilmore didn't tell them. It was another populist stunt by him, at least this time it was a worthwhile stunt with more than a little integrity about it!
But, it was a stunt none the less... I would go so far as saying that all the leaders DID talk about it, and agreed to leave it out of the Dail... but Gilmore saw it as a golden grand-standing opportunity!..

I may not like the guy.. but he took his chance well..!!

bmaxi

optocynic wrote: »

My guess is, Gilmore didn't tell them. It was another populist stunt by him, at least this time it was a worthwhile stunt with more than a little integrity about it!
But, it was a stunt none the less... I would go so far as saying that all the leaders DID talk about it, and agreed to leave it out of the Dail... but Gilmore saw it as a golden grand-standing opportunity!..

I may not like the guy.. but he took his chance well..!!
/QUOTE]

I was travelling a lot yesterday and only heard snatches but I thought I heard Gilmore say he had sent a letter to all party leaders.

bugler

The opposition really need to grow some balls. I used to laugh at those wacky videos of brawls erupting in the parliaments of those random Eastern countries - now I envy them. I wish Enda would show some passion.

The Daíl needs angrier occupants. The standing ovation for Bertie was galling enough.

Incidentally, Roisín Shortall wasn't bad last night in the Daíl, claiming Coughlan had acted illegally over Rody-gate.

hallelujajordan

optocynic wrote: »

My guess is, Gilmore didn't tell them. It was another populist stunt by him, at least this time it was a worthwhile stunt with more than a little integrity about it!
But, it was a stunt none the less... I would go so far as saying that all the leaders DID talk about it, and agreed to leave it out of the Dail... but Gilmore saw it as a golden grand-standing opportunity!..

I may not like the guy.. but he took his chance well..!!

You might be right but if that's the case he shafted Kenny which seems odd given that in all likelihood he will have to partner with him to form the next Govt. It's also odd that Kenny didn't see it coming !

Maybe Gilmore still has it in his head that Labour can be the majority party in the next govt . .

Aidric

Just to clarify the situation, I was listening to Roisin Shortall on Vincent Browne last night. She stated that Gilmore phoned O Donoghue yesterday morning prior to Dail proceedings, informing him that he was going to table a motion of no confidence. He also discussed it informally with his party members first. As he was on his way back from a speaking engagement at a SIPTU conference there wasn't time for a formal meeting with his party prior to him tabling the motion.

optocynic

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Maybe Gilmore still has it in his head that Labour can be the majority party in the next govt . .

I do think this is the case! Delusions of Grandeur maybe...! But since Gilmore is good with a jibe... he wil be a typical irish voter's champion.

The man has carisma... but I don't really see a rational and strong intellect at work.. Once again, RB may be the man we need..

Grey Enda should step aside!

Long Onion

Fine Gael have bottled it. To hear Kenny saying that it's ok to squander the tax payers money as long as you

(a) give it back when caught and;
(b) sack a staff member

made me sad to be Irish. Hearing JOD's cousin (another elected official) on the radio this morning saying that he's got a bum deal made me plain mad (but this is the same county that has given us the wondeful healy-rea's). Gilmore has balls at least so he has won some respect from me on the matter.

I am still disappointed that the opposition parties have not tried harder to force a general election. I firmly believe that they are waiting for FF to pass NAMA before they take the seat - if it works then happy days, if not they will blame FF for passing it - they know they don't have a real alternative.

Labour has pushed the nationalisation issue but to date the only nationalised institution in the country has turned out to be an absolute disaster.

Politics in this country is an absolute disgrace. I find it amusing in the extreme to hear from people who "don't trust Europe"

Biggins

Aidric wrote: »

Just to clarify the situation, I was listening to Roisin Shortall on Vincent Browne last night. She stated that Gilmore phoned O Donoghue yesterday morning prior to Dail proceedings, informing him that he was going to table a motion of no confidence.

I suspected as much.
As can be seen from the news clips of when Gilmore stood up and made his statement, O'Donaghue reacted non-facially or in NO way at all, with a blank expression.
It was clear by his mannerism, stone cold but already red faced, he knew what was coming.
He just sat there frozen beforehand, during and afterwards.

bonzos

Kenny has now to follow up on hie previous calls for JOD the hand back some of the money he screwed from us.....Whats it going to be enda? BE A MAN FOR ONCE IN YOUR LIFE!!!! and regain some respect

turgon

Indeed it regretable the politics (or lack therof) dragged out so long.

This still doesnt change the fact that FG are the only party able to fix the public debt.

Biggins

turgon wrote: »

...This still doesn't change the fact that FG are the only party able to fix the public debt.

LOL I have a sneaking suspicion there is a plug in there for them!

partyguinness

turgon wrote: »

Indeed it regretable the politics (or lack therof) dragged out so long.

This still doesnt change the fact that FG are the only party able to fix the public debt.[/quote]


How do you figure that one?

hallelujajordan

turgon wrote: »

Indeed it regretable the politics (or lack therof) dragged out so long.

This still doesnt change the fact that FG are the only party able to fix the public debt.

I agree . . not because they have the best people or ideas but they are the only party with any chance of getting an overall majority and forming a single party government . . We need a government with that kind of mandate and strength if we are to have any chance of reversing things.

Euroland

Yes, FG is the same FF, only slightly different. Unfortunately, in Ireland at present, there is no political party which would have ability to deliver. With all my respect to Enda, he doesn't look like as a prospective leader of a country, leader which would drive the country to success, the leader which would have an all-European or global appeal, instead he looks more like an average coutryside farmer.

gazzer

I have never been a major fan of Enda Kenny but this whole JOD issue has really shown him up to be a spineless coward. Why the hell didnt he take the lead and call for JOD's resignation? He is the leader of the opposition but yet he just stood meekly by and just uttered a few soundbites.

Fine Gael will be down a fair few percentage points in the next RED C Poll I reckon.

Fair play to Eamonn Gilmore. At least he had the balls to stand up in the dail and say what he did.

Diarmuid

partyguinness wrote: »

How do you figure that one?

Well so far they are the only party in opposition who have said that cuts will be required. Labour have refused to say that so far (because they know their voters don't want to hear the cold facts) and as for SF/SWP/others , give them half a chance and it will be the 80s all over again.

Villain

Kenny looked like he was the leader of the smaller Oppoistion party yesterday, Gilmore is twice as wise or well advised than Kenny, and now Kenny has tried to get back on top by trying to force JOD to resign but Labour had said he can stay until next week and if the Greens pull the plug then he will be removed before the election is called.

Gilmore 10 - 0 Kenny

John_Mc

Diarmuid wrote: »

Well so far they are the only party in opposition who have said that cuts will be required. Labour have refused to say that so far (because they know their voters don't want to hear the cold facts) and as for SF/SWP/others , give them half a chance and it will be the 80s all over again.

Eh no, not really. All parties have said there needs to be cuts, the only difference between them being where these cuts will be made.

mathie

Look they all have dirt on each other. That's why they appear 'spineless'.

jprender

At the moment, FG are almost certain to make up part, if not all, of the next government, and as a result I think they are trying too hard not to mess it up.

Hence, they are just sitting on their hands when what is needed is a strong, vocal opposition/leader.

murphaph

The Ceann Comhairle's resignation yesterday was inevitable. Enda
Kenny was the first to say the Ceann Comhairle should consider his
position if he didn't meet the criteria outlined by the Fine Gael
Leader in his statement on Sunday. We believed the appropriate place
for this to be carried out was the Oireachtas Commission - in order
to avoid the politicisation of the Office of Ceann Comhairle.
Following yesterday's events this cannot happen. The Ceann Comhairle
should now resign immediately to allow the Dail to focus on the real
economy and jobs - including for example the 676 job losses announced
in Aer Lingus this morning.

Damn it was a great opportunity but Enda Kenny has to go. The people won't vote for him as Taoiseach and rightly so.

nkay1985

Does anyone else feel like Gilmore's hand was almost forced by Sinn Fein calling for his resignation though? Their call seemed to be met with a positive response by the public and maybe it gave Gilmore enough confidence to take that decision then.

As for Kenny not calling for his resignation, I would expect no less from him. If he manages to become the leader of this country, it'll be a sad day for all of us. I wouldn't have such a problem with FG in government (anyone would be better than these scumbags) but I just couldn't stomach him for five years.

FG with Richard Bruton at the helm would be grand. Kenny is spineless.

P. Breathnach

murphaph wrote: »

Damn it was a great opportunity but Enda Kenny has to go. The people won't vote for him as Taoiseach and rightly so.

Of course the people won't vote for him as Taoiseach. The people don't get to vote for Taoiseach; that's a matter for Dáil Éireann.

The people might give enough seats to Fine Gael to make it likely that Kenny be elected Taoiseach.

murphaph

P. Breathnach wrote: »

Of course the people won't vote for him as Taoiseach. The people don't get to vote for Taoiseach; that's a matter for Dáil Éireann.

The people might give enough seats to Fine Gael to make it likely that Kenny be elected Taoiseach.

I know how the mechanics of Dail Eireann work thanks very much. HOWEVER-the dogs in the street know that the party leader of the biggest party is 99% likely to be selected as Taoiseach and vote accordingly!

People will avoid voting FG so long as Enda Kenny is their leader.

flanzer

Yep Enda Kenny is spineless and again proved he wouldn't be a worthy leader of this country. But why didn't he call for JOD's resignation? This story is gonna get legs. Expect Kenny's expense account to come under scrutiny I feel! They all at it in there

Biggins

Honestly, I wouldn't vote for FG if Kenny was still the head.
If there was someone else there with different aspects to them - maybe more so for sure.

P. Breathnach

flanzer wrote: »

Yep Enda Kenny is spineless and again proved he wouldn't be a worthy leader of this country. But why didn't he call for JOD's resignation? This story is gonna get legs. Expect Kenny's expense account to come under scrutiny I feel! They all at it in there

I think it's much simpler than that: Kenny failed to recognise that the right moment had arrived, whereas Gilmore did.

Nodin

I'm still trying to figure out why Gilmores remark was "suprising". I would have presumed that they'd all be calling for yer man to go. Goverment drops the ball - opposition attacks, and in this case with good detailed reason.

As for O'Donogue being treated unfairly - that could only be argued along the lines of others having done worse and gotten away with it (which I'd have no problems believing), which isn't much of an argument at all.

Aidric

nkay1985 wrote: »

As for Kenny not calling for his resignation, I would expect no less from him. If he manages to become the leader of this country, it'll be a sad day for all of us.

I honestly despair at the thought of this man as leader of our country. As it stands I think he is damaging the chances of the party at the next general election.

Biggins

Aidric wrote: »

I honestly despair at the thought of this man as leader of our country. As it stands I think he is damaging the chances of the party at the next general election.

Same here but regardless, he will hang on in there till the next GE and (for all intensive purposes) arise to the leadership of the country.

After that I expect more of the same old, same old tripe...
I despair!

murfie

murphaph wrote: »

People will avoid voting FG so long as Enda Kenny is their leader.

I disagree, people vote locally. So they vote for the candidate that they believe will deliver on local issues. Enda is not the strongest granted, but he has a good team that in reality are the only alternative to the shower that are in power right now.

Biggins wrote: »

After that I expect more of the same old, same old tripe...
I despair!

I despair at the thought of a Labour run government, as i said above FG are a hell of a lot better then FF in power.

We do not vote on the leader of a party, we vote for our local TD and their party policies. FG are the only choice in my eyes rather then a socialist nightmare the Labour will be.

markesmith

Labour in government would be a good alternative, even if only for four years. These two Christian-Democratic parties are just two sides of the same coin. Is there really any difference between their policies?

Gilmore's got my vote.

murphaph

markesmith wrote: »

Labour in government would be a good alternative, even if only for four years. These two Christian-Democratic parties are just two sides of the same coin. Is there really any difference between their policies?

Gilmore's got my vote.

Problem with labour is that they'd rather tax the private sector to oblivion than cut wages/jobs in the public sector.

murfie

Also in fairness the onus was on Labour to withdraw their support for JOD, they with FF and the Greens agreed on JOD for the position of Ceann Comhairle. FG never supported him in that position.

Biggins

LOL I can see possible electioneering starting already!

Dannyboy83

murphaph wrote: »

Problem with labour is that they'd rather tax the private sector to oblivion than cut wages/jobs in the public sector.

Which is precisely why FG have still got my vote until a credible alternative show up.

Gilmore has explicitly stated that the PS wages DO NOT need to be cut.
While its admirable to look for new solutions, it is also the road to ruin if you don't make the decision that have to be made.

And as P.Breathnach said, I doubt there was any conspiracy or real cowardice, more simply Gilmore had copped when the time was right.

walshb

Enda had his chance and failed miserably. He truly dropped the ball here

Biggins

walshb wrote: »

Enda had his chance and failed miserably. He truly dropped the ball here

True, while he was humming and hawing, hesitating, Gilmore pulled a quick PR goal.
Like him or not - he jumped when others wouldn't vocally.

Pride Fighter

murphaph wrote: »

Problem with labour is that they'd rather tax the private sector to oblivion than cut wages/jobs in the public sector.

Have you ever heard of Ruairi Quinn? When he was minister for finance he was extremely pro-enterprise. Lowered the corporation tax to 12.5% and IMO was the greatest minister of finance in the states history.

genericguy

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Ruairi Quinn? When he was minister for finance he was extremely pro-enterprise. Lowered the corporation tax to 12.5% and IMO was the greatest minister of finance in the states history.

a veritable robin hood he was.

wylo

I cant believe people are calling FG spineless, there is only one reason FG backed off on this one , and its because of what another poster said , they all have dirt on each other.
We all know well that they all take this piss out of the expenses and thats why no one wants to be in the spotlight , cause they know they'll be hit next, its just not worth it.
I would absolutely love it if JoD came out and said theyre all at it, of course he wont , but it would be absolutely golden if he did.

I hope to god the press start to dig for dirt for all the clowns up in the Dail as a result of this, then we'll see who has been honest.

Fair play to Gilmore, someone had to say it, and FG proved themselves as dodgy as the rest by not pushing it straight away.

Its like I said in another post, it goes all the way down to the likes of a bunch councillors going on junkets in the one car, getting their own petrol expense,signing in, fvcking off home straight away without attending the meeting and then getting paid for being in a hotel.

irish_bob

murfie wrote: »

I disagree, people vote locally. So they vote for the candidate that they believe will deliver on local issues. Enda is not the strongest granted, but he has a good team that in reality are the only alternative to the shower that are in power right now.



I despair at the thought of a Labour run government, as i said above FG are a hell of a lot better then FF in power.

We do not vote on the leader of a party, we vote for our local TD and their party policies. FG are the only choice in my eyes rather then a socialist nightmare the Labour will be.

you are wrong , people mainly identify a party by their leader , when people think of enda kenny , they immedietly think less of fine gael , ive said it a million times before , kenny is what causes the swing voter to think twice

turgon

partyguinness wrote: »

How do you figure that one?

Simply actually, once one removes oneself from the dogma of antiKennyism.

Irish Public debt = huge.
Cost per year of Public sector pay bill = 20 billion
Cost per year of social welfare = 21 billion
Rough percentage of government spending allocated to welfare and public sector pay bill - 67%
How are we going to reduce out debt? Cut wage bill and welfar.

Labour are effectively a front for the Unions whos main aims are preservation of jobs and welfare. They are not going to change this.
Sinn Fein are even more hard core than Labour. They are not going to change this.

Which leaves us with .... Fine Gael.

The 'least worst' choice. Simple really. Any rational argument to that?

Biggins wrote: »

LOL I have a sneaking suspicion there is a plug in there for them!

Oh yes. I realize the absolute **** creek this country is up (as do you), and I see only one party with the slight chance of changing that, and thats me plugging them. Right.

irish_bob

Pride Fighter wrote: »

Have you ever heard of Ruairi Quinn? When he was minister for finance he was extremely pro-enterprise. Lowered the corporation tax to 12.5% and IMO was the greatest minister of finance in the states history.

ruari quinn is generally accepted as being on the right wing of labour if their is indeed such a thing , labour under gilmore have moved sharply to the left since rabbite stepped down and he was more left wing than quinn

turgon

irish_bob wrote: »

kenny is what causes the swing voter to think twice

Indeed. Whilst the oratorical abilities of any leader make no difference as to whether I vote for that Party (I base my vote on policy and what theyre actually going to do not say) the average voter is looking for confidence in a Leader. Kenny doesnt deliver.

Biggins

turgon wrote: »

Oh yes. I realize the absolute **** creek this country is up (as do you), and I see only one party with the slight chance of changing that, and thats me plugging them. Right.

...and your entitled to think that way till Sinn Fein takes over!