WHO says H1N1 vaccine "safe" and urges mass take-up

Run_to_da_hills

Despite claims on the contrary from members of the medical profession, WHO have officially announced that H1N1 vaccine is safe and urges mass take up. It even goes as far as calling it the "most important tool" against the pandemic. :rolleyes:

Dose this now give the authorities around the globe justification for compulsory vaccinations on all citizens?



http://www.reuters.com/article/topNews/idUSL626045720091006

thecommander

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Dose this now give the authorities around the globe justification for cumpulsory vaccinations on all citizens?

No.

Run_to_da_hills

Run_to_da_hills wrote: »

Despite claims on the contrary from members of the medical profession,

So of these members of the medical profession how many have produced scientific evidence to support their claims?

And why trust these members of the medical profession but not the ones who say it is safe (and back up their claims)?

granite man

King Mob wrote: »

So of these members of the medical profession how many have produced scientific evidence to support their claims?

And why trust these members of the medical profession but not the ones who say it is safe (and back up their claims)?

I would've thought 'backing up their claims' would involve admitting responsibility if and when people fall ill from the vaccine. They haven't and won't. I doubt they'd even take the vaccine themselves as they know what various poisons it contains. More than you do obviously.

humanji

He's talking about the medical professionals who claim it's not safe.

weiss

thimerosal, a mercury based chemical used in the vaccine is perfectly safe...because the WHO says so, that's why..just...that's why, they said so, it must be the truth.

I believe everything i'm told by the WHO, bah...bah..

what's truly amazing is those on here saying it is safe won't actually take it themselves, go figure.

uprising

Actually can people clarify in their post's if they will be taking the jab or not, I know kingmob doesn't like needle's, so that's him out, yet he states at every turn how safe it is. Does that not seem a little hypocritical to you?.

I do not believe it is safe and I will not recieve it.

tallaght01

I had it about 3 days ago, as did everyone in my job, and I'm a doctor.

The WHO are not saying it's safe themselves. They haven't done the testing. They are just reporting the studies. And all the studies say it's safe so far.

I had a bit of nausea the following day, which I put down to the shot. But it wasn't bad enough to stop me working or anything.

weiss

what studies?

people on here believing the WHO say the vaccine is "safe" yet where are all the clinical trials and scientific evidence to back up the claim it's "safe".

can you answer that please?

tallaght01

http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/full/NEJMoa0907413

that's just one I have on my computer here. The americans did another. We're just finishing one on kids, which will be published before we give it to kids.

Same study that gets done on the normal flu vaccine every year.

weiss

Three subjects had an influenza-like illness, one of whom tested positive for 2009 H1N1 on day 8 after vaccination.The remaining two subjects tested negative for 2009 H1N1.

isn't the H1N1 virus part of the vaccine? so of course they would have it in their body?

after 2 or 3 weeks of testing a vaccine, it is "safe"

i thought vaccine trials usually took months and even years...

Swine Flu vaccine side effects mild, say researchers

Two studies, one from Australia and one from the UK, have now reported their results. The vaccines were made by different companies, but both used the same strain of virus and the standard manufacturing process used for seasonal flu vaccines.

The studies also looked at side effects. The common side effects were those you'd expect from seasonal flu vaccine: pain where the vaccine was injected (reported by 36 percent of Australian volunteers and 70 percent of UK volunteers) and muscle aches or headaches (reported by 45 percent of Australian volunteers and 42 percent of UK volunteers).

These are preliminary studies, which test how well the vaccine works in healthy, younger adults. So it can't tell us how well it would work for older people, children, or people with immune problems.

Also, we only have results from 340 people tested with this vaccine. That's not enough to spot rare side effects. It's unlikely that any very rare side effects will be picked up before the vaccine is used for thousands of people.

tallaght01

No, the flu vaccine is produced every year, and this is the exact type of study that gets done every year. That's how the flu vaccine changes each year.

You do one trial, and look at the effects after 1 week, as that's when virtually all the side effects occur.

Then you do another one looking at side effects from 1 week - 1 month. Then 1 month to 3 months.

That data is now available for almost 3 months. The vaccine isn't going to have side effects after that length of time.

Vaccine trials don't take years when they're already tested. The flu vaccine has been around years. Every year, it changes depending on what strains are around. This year the strain is H1N1. Next year it could be H3N2 or whatever. This is no different.

The people enrolled in trial were aged up to 65. That's done in case there's a side effects. Young people will cope with them better. You're not allowed test most drugs on the elderly in the first instance. But this is the same vaccine the elderly have been getting for years. In fact, if swine flu happened earlier it would have been part of the normal yearly flu vaccine. It's the same vaccine. Surely you can't be against this?

rare side effects will never be picked up in a yearly flu vaccine study. You'd have to test 50,000+ people to pick them up. If this was a new vaccine, you'd test thousands. But there's nothing new here.

weiss

well, i'm willing to take the risk and not get this vaccine because i'm sick and tired of government organisations and media spreading fear amongst the population about something that is just another flu, as you rightly say.

All these poisons the companies sell us are ****ing useless anyway.
As you pointed out, they need to generate new vaccine every year..with more clinical trials and tests...why bother?

when people are depressed, the doctor gives them anti-depressants, when a patient can't sleep, they get sleeping tablets..isn't this wonderful.

And what exactly did people do for centuries before this?

i have no doubt that when people receive the vaccine and might happen to die anyway, it will be reported as "complications of swine flu" which is the usual rhetorical headline BS for when the "medicine" just doesn't work the way it was intended.

Thanks, but no thanks.

weiss

weiss wrote: »

And what exactly did people do for centuries before this?

Died or were horribly disfigured or were burned at the stake for having demons or if they were lucky had a hole drilled in their head to let those demons out.


But why are the WHO etc evil for scaremongering (which I haven't seen them do) but you are not evil despite you are doing the same thing you are accusing the WHO of by saying that the vaccine will kill people?

tallaght01

weiss wrote: »

well, i'm willing to take the risk and not get this vaccine because i'm sick and tired of government organisations and media spreading fear amongst the population about something that is just another flu, as you rightly say.

All these poisons the companies sell us are ****ing useless anyway.
As you pointed out, they need to generate new vaccine every year..with more clinical trials and tests...why bother?

when people are depressed, the doctor gives them anti-depressants, when a patient can't sleep, they get sleeping tablets..isn't this wonderful.

And what exactly did people do for centuries before this?

i have no doubt that when people receive the vaccine and might happen to die anyway, it will be reported as "complications of swine flu" which is the usual rhetorical headline BS for when the "medicine" just doesn't work the way it was intended.

Thanks, but no thanks.

Just to pick up on some of that. Just because something is just another flu in terms of its antigens making it easy to incorporate into a vaccine, doesn't make it less virulent.

Bear in mind that bird flu is "just another flu", with a 60% mortality rate. That's just for the benefit of anyone reading this, who might think that being a member of the influenza family makes a virus safe.

Had to also have a giggle too at the poster above complaining about doctors using anti-depressants. Its a whole other issue, but go and ask your local TD what services are available for depressed people. Theres nothing. Irish GPs would LOVE to refer depressed people for CBT and counseling and exercise therapy, so they wouldn't have to use drugs, but its not available. I know that's less attracative than a big pharma conspiracy. But it's the reality.

weiss

King Mob wrote:

Died or were horribly disfigured or were burned at the stake for having demons or if they were lucky had a hole drilled in their head to let those demons out.

rather predictable comment from you, yet again..i expected atleast 1 for that remark i made and wasn't the least bit surprised it came from you since you never miss an opportunity for sarcastic commentary, on any issue.

What you don't acknowledge is that we have a better standard of living today. Not because of vaccines, but because our food, water, living and working conditions have vastly improved since 100 years or more ago, but we'll conveniently ignore those facts of modern society just so you can amuse yourself.

I had chiken pox, i had whooping cough and my body was able to fight those diseases and recover.
You look at amish people in the US, they're not vaccinated yet seem to be quite healthy people.

Many people have got measles and mumps and made recoveries.
You can't prove that just because people were vaccinated, it automatically prevented them from getting a disease.

For example, i never got the meningitis vaccine, and never got meningitis, what does this prove? it doesn't prove anything, just like if i'd taken the vaccine and never got meningitis doesn't mean the vaccine protected me.

i believe our better standard of living has given us better health, not vaccines.

please don't respond with more gibberish about burning people at stakes...

But why are the WHO etc evil for scaremongering (which I haven't seen them do) but you are not evil despite you are doing the same thing you are accusing the WHO of by saying that the vaccine will kill people?

again, same old, same old...like a broken record.

it's hilarious that when anyone comes on CT forum to discuss a theory, King Mob is the first to attack the poster asking for evidence and scientific studies to back up the theory.

And if the poster doesn't give him what he wants, they're obviously scaremongering.

But if the WHO does it, then it's fair game to him...see the hypocrisy? it's quite clear and you understand why i have no time for this person? pretty obvious too.

well..obviously we can't let poor old King Mob be ignored, what would he do with his life?

tallaght01 wrote:

Had to also have a giggle too at the poster above complaining about doctors using anti-depressants. Its a whole other issue, but go and ask your local TD what services are available for depressed people. Theres nothing. Irish GPs would LOVE to refer depressed people for CBT and counseling and exercise therapy, so they wouldn't have to use drugs, but its not available. I know that's less attracative than a big pharma conspiracy. But it's the reality.

well, i don't find it funny, peoples lives are destroyed because of anti-depressants, sure..some people say they benefit from them, but they're usually people who can afford good doctors/medicine.

you make a good point about CBT and counselling not being available as much as it should, this is true..but look at the money being wasted on these drugs that are supposed to help the person, they're pretty expensive.

Excercise is definitely key to healthy mind, Mens sana in corpore sano

but why isn't there more of an effort to educate society that if they're depressed then they should eat healthier food, get regular excercise, abstain from drug/alcohol abuse..that these simple steps are very important to good mental health, and much better than any anti-depressant.

instead, the solution seems to be a prescription and you're on your way to recovery? not likely...

anyway, it's going OT, but I don't believe doctors always necessarily offer the best remedy for health problems.

tallaght01

I think it's a fair topic, as you think docs are in cahoots with big pharma, and thats what's driving the vaccine rush.

I hate big pharma. I despise them.

BUt its one of the world's great myths that modern anti-depressants have any major addictive nature, if that's what you mean by ruining people's lives. There have been side effects from some anti-Ds, but they fare well compared to most drugs.

If you've ever had a patient taking the brave step of turning up to your surgery asking for your help, and you told them to take more exercise, they'd punch you. If they have the energy. They often can't even get out of bed, and one of the symptoms is that they have no appetite. "Depression" is different to being sad. It's not as simple as eating well and taking up jogging.

Lots of people say they feel better when they come off anti_Ds, and that's fair enough. They're drugs that alter your mood, and I'd certainly rather not be on a drug like that. BUt so many people underestimate the positive effect they have on peoples lives. Sure, there will be youtube videos to the contrary and naturalnews.com will slate them. But those of us on the coalface see people having their lives transformed by them all the time.

To keep on the track of vaccination, the studies have all shown that vaccination and clean water have been the two biggest positive influences on better health in the last 100 years. Food, living and working conditions play their part, but vaccination is the biggy. You can talk about chickenpox and whooping cough. It may not have affected you, but I occasionally see kids die of both those diseases. While working in africa, I saw kids die of vaccine preventable disease every single day. they would bite your hand off for a vaccine.

Depending on your age, you possibly didn't get meningitis because of herd immunity. Google it. The people who don't vaccinate their kids rely on the goodwill of the rest of the community, who get their kids protected and reduce the overall incidence.

Swine flu vaccine is fine. Medics wouldn't be asking for it in the first round of vaccines if we thought it was unsafe.

weiss

weiss wrote: »

What you don't acknowledge is that we have a better standard of living today. Not because of vaccines, but because our food, water, living and working conditions have vastly improved since 100 years or more ago, but we'll conveniently ignore those facts of modern society just so you can amuse yourself.

I never said or implied that vaccines are the sole cause of improved health. There are loads of reasons as you said food, water, living and working conditions have vastly improved played a huge part in it. As have medical advances like antibiotics and sterile enivroments to name a small few. One of the most important medical advances is vaccines.

weiss wrote: »

I had chiken pox, i had whooping cough and my body was able to fight those diseases and recover.

And I can point to a ton of cases were children have died from whooping cough.
Chicken Pox isn't normally fatal.

weiss wrote: »

You look at amish people in the US, they're not vaccinated yet seem to be quite healthy people.

And the Amish communities tend to be more insular and have less exposure to various diseases.

weiss wrote: »

Many people have got measles and mumps and made recoveries.
You can't prove that just because people were vaccinated, it automatically prevented them from getting a disease.

And there are many many people who die or are permanently injured by these diseases.
Quite frankly your lack of knowledge of how vaccines and diseases work is shocking.

weiss wrote: »

For example, i never got the meningitis vaccine, and never got meningitis, what does this prove? it doesn't prove anything, just like if i'd taken the vaccine and never got meningitis doesn't mean the vaccine protected me.

That's not how you judge the effectiveness of vaccines or any other treatment.
But I'm as bothered to explain it as you'd be as bothered to try to understand it.

weiss wrote: »

i believe our better standard of living has given us better health, not vaccines.

And vaccines have improved our standard of living immensely.
But I'm sure smallpox and polio were just minor infections you could just shake off like mumps.

bonkey

weiss wrote: »

For example, i never got the meningitis vaccine, and never got meningitis, what does this prove? it doesn't prove anything, just like if i'd taken the vaccine and never got meningitis doesn't mean the vaccine protected me.

That's correct.

As a line of argument, though, it has nothing to do with immunology.

Take a comparison...someone saying that they've never worn a seatbelt and never been in a car-crash. There's also no proof that had they been in a car-crash that the seatbelt would have made a difference.

Does this suggest that there is no clear reason for anyone to ever wear a seatbelt?

kevpants

tallaght01 wrote: »

BUt its one of the world's great myths that modern anti-depressants have any major addictive nature, if that's what you mean by ruining people's lives. There have been side effects from some anti-Ds, but they fare well compared to most drugs.

*Can't believe I'm posting in the Conspiracy Theories Forum*

I just have to pull you up on that. The fact that you believe that and you are a doctor is just staggering.

You can ask my wife & family how Seroxat and trying to come off Seroxat nearly ended my life and ruin the lives of my family. Like so many men, a few years ago in my early 20's I had a period of severe depression and anxiety that for so many ends in suicide. My GP's first action before any counselling, diet, exercise etc was considered was a steady course of Seroxat. At this stage I was low but not a danger to myself or anyone else.

Seroxat changed my personality. I became numb, lifeless and incapable of any emotion. I reacted differently to situations than the old me would have. There were terribly traumatic and lifechanging challenges before myself and my (then) girlfriend (now wife) that left her distraught and me not caring about the consequences on her life, my life, anything.

I knew this was all wrong and decided to try and come off Seroxat. Having been on it only 3 weeks I thought this would be a doddle. WRONG! Even lowering the dose to ease off it resulted in the worst symptoms of cold turkey you can imagine. Shaking, sweating, pain and above all else uncontrollable feelings of fear, despair and paranoia that I couldn't escape from.

I had to turn back from my way to the tube station on my way to work several times due to the overwhelming idea that jumping in front of it was the only way to end the pain. I knew that wouldn't solve anything and I definitely didn't want to die but it was the only way I could imagine of switching off the pain that was burning in my head. I nearly lost my job, my wife, my own life because of anti depressants. Not depression, antidepressants.

I survived the cold turkey only through a chance trip to a chinese doctor, that my wife forced me to visit out of sheer desperation, who was able to give me something very simple which merely helped me relax, get decent sleep, talk to someone, exercise, educate myself on my challenges. THESE are the all I ever needed to get over my depression. But what did one of your learned colleagues do? Give me a psychotic drug that he (and you) don't know the first thing about and nearly took it all away. FFS these drugs and their anti depressant qualities were stumbled upon by people looking at heart medication or something. No one knows how they work exactly!

I've always been very private about my experiences and never posted it on an internet forum but your brushing away of the anti depressant "myth" like so many other smug medical professionals makes my blood boil.

Despite the echelons of the standing in society you probably enjoy thanks to that outlandishly expensive piece of paper you have you don't know it all. You do as you're told and subscribe to a system that you place all of your faith in and expect us lay people to as well.

Sorry sunshine, you don't have a superior stand point to argue from. A doctors opinion would be the last I would take on these types of issues. You have nailed your flag firmly to the mast on these debates so less off the self satisfied categrizations of myths and whatnot.

That "mythical" few months of my life were pretty real. :mad:

tallaght01

If you want me to tell you didn't have a terrible time on paroxetine, I won't.

If you're asking me if anti-Ds, by and large, are well tolerated, then the evidence is that they are. I can tell you all kinds of stories about all kinds of drugs. Paroxetine has it's benefits and drawbacks, and is really only useful for major depression.

But if you'd like to talk about the evidence base for anti_Ds, without basically telling me I'm a tool, then come over to bio+med and do that.

weiss

tallaght01 wrote:

I think it's a fair topic, as you think docs are in cahoots with big pharma, and thats what's driving the vaccine rush.

I hate big pharma. I despise them.

not all doctors anyway, just those taking fat brown envelopes.

BUt its one of the world's great myths that modern anti-depressants have any major addictive nature, if that's what you mean by ruining people's lives. There have been side effects from some anti-Ds, but they fare well compared to most drugs.

no, i'm referring to people who have suffered ill health or death as a result of taking anti-depressants.
surprised as a doctor, you wouldn't be aware of this.

lets not discuss the eli lilly controversies of prozac inducing suicide and violent acts, zyprexa causing diabetes, death..the topic deserves a proper discussion although it would be difficult to do that on here.

If you've ever had a patient taking the brave step of turning up to your surgery asking for your help, and you told them to take more exercise, they'd punch you. If they have the energy. They often can't even get out of bed, and one of the symptoms is that they have no appetite. "Depression" is different to being sad. It's not as simple as eating well and taking up jogging.

Have you ever been punched? do you know a doctor that has?
I'm not saying you should tell them to "cop on, get a bit of excercise ye lazy git"
But you're certainly not exploring all available options, are you?

You're only solution is to write out a prescription and send them out the door?

@kevpants, i also find it hard to believe tallaght01 is a doctor, but the attitude is common.

tallaght01

weiss wrote: »

not all doctors anyway, just those taking fat brown envelopes.



no, i'm referring to people who have suffered ill health or death as a result of taking anti-depressants.
surprised as a doctor, you wouldn't be aware of this.

lets not discuss the eli lilly controversies of prozac inducing suicide and violent acts, zyprexa causing diabetes, death..the topic deserves a proper discussion although it would be difficult to do that on here.



Have you ever been punched? do you know a doctor that has?
I'm not saying you should tell them to "cop on, get a bit of excercise ye lazy git"
But you're certainly not exploring all available options, are you?

You're only solution is to write out a prescription and send them out the door?

I'm afraid that is virtually always the only option. I work mostly with kids, and with them it's worse. There's no services that are easily accessible. This is where it ties in nicely with swine flu.

Look at the money made available to swine flu, for vaccines. That's important, and we need it. But there's no money for psych services. Doctors would kill for a counsellor, or CBT locally. But if the patient can't pay, it's very hard to get access to those services.

tallaght01

weiss wrote: »

@kevpants, i also find it hard to believe tallaght01 is a doctor, but the attitude is common.

Actually, I'd thought you were reasonable enough to have an actual conversation with. But then I saw that, so I'm gone.

Toodles

weiss

tallaght01 wrote:

But if the patient can't pay, it's very hard to get access to those services.

That's the point I made earlier, that you as a doctor, counsellors, big pharma and many other are only motivated by money and could care less about the health and well being of a patient.

That's the real reason you don't discuss alternative options to anti-depressants, because you just don't give a toss, lets face facts here.

weiss

Actually, I'd thought you were reasonable enough to have an actual conversation with. But then I saw that, so I'm gone.

Toodles

Well, what can I say?

I had discussed with a psychiatrist Zyprexa being used to treat women suffering with post natal depression and she could only state 1 side affect of 23 or more.

since then, we see that eli lilly were taken to court and sued for damages by 18,000 people.
yet still today, zyprexa is prescribed for things as trivial as insomnia, and why?

because doctors don't give a **** about patients, that's why.

kevpants story is very common.

kevpants

tallaght01 wrote: »

If you want me to tell you didn't have a terrible time on paroxetine, I won't.

If you're asking me if anti-Ds, by and large, are well tolerated, then the evidence is that they are. I can tell you all kinds of stories about all kinds of drugs. Paroxetine has it's benefits and drawbacks, and is really only useful for major depression.

But if you'd like to talk about the evidence base for anti_Ds, without basically telling me I'm a tool, then come over to bio+med and do that.

So now it's all about seeking out a rational debate on the pros/cons.

Where was that attitude when you labelled experiences like mine as mythical in a forum where you didn't expect to be challenged?

I believe our friend Seroxat has had it's name mentioned by the families in the recent murder/suicide case currently doing the rounds.

Are there more mild ant-d's? Yes? Does everyone have these side effects? No.

Is it right for a doctor whose opinion is automatically accepted and trusted by a great wedge of people in society to label my experience as mythical. No!

This isn't about a debate on drug trials and side effects. It's about you displaying the exact attitude I've encountered from a worryingly large majority of your colleagues around this issue.

I have no doubt you can drag me over to bio+med and PWN me or whatever the internet says these days. It matters not that you might be able to tell me I was the 1 in 10,000 that has these effects. Then we can start debating the probability of me taking anti-d's once in my life and becoming that 1 in 10,000.

Others can decide whether I really was a fluke case or if maybe your catch-all brushoff isn't based in fact.

kevpants

weiss wrote: »

That's the point I made earlier, that you as a doctor, counsellors, big pharma and many other are only motivated by money and could care less about the health and well being of a patient.

That's the real reason you don't discuss alternative options to anti-depressants, because you just don't give a toss, lets face facts here.

Ahh here look I'm not going to have my story tagged to the anti big-pharma doctors don't care about patients agenda

I never signed up for that.

I was merely pulling tallaght up on something troubling when it comes to attitudes to anti-d's. I'm sure I would agree with tallaght more than this forum on drug issues but, whether he admits it or not, the use of the term "myth" is outrageous and a symptom of a bigger problem that doesn't need to be debated in a conspiracy forum but at a government level.

But you guys all think they want us dead right?

weiss

kevpants wrote:

I never signed up for that.

Well, my apologies sir.

But Its just my own observation of how the medical system works.
At the end of the day, pharma companies are in business to make money.
Their priority is not the wellbeing of a patient using their product. - just my own opinion of course.

kevpants wrote:

But you guys all think they want us dead right?

yes, they are certainly out to get us all ...absolutely.

i have built a special bunker under the house, stocked with tinned tuna and soup, enough bottled water for 2 years, my cb for keeping in contact with other comrades and my trusty rifle incase they come around trying to jab me with vaccines

humanji

weiss wrote: »

Well, my apologies sir.

But Its just my own observation of how the medical system works.
At the end of the day, pharma companies are in business to make money.
Their priority is not the wellbeing of a patient using their product. - just my own opinion of course.

Well, in fairness, their priority really is the well being of the patients using their product, because if the patients die, then that patient won't be buying any more of their product, and if enough people die the entire product line will be recalled.

I've no doubt their in it for the money, but claiming that they don't care what they are peddling is highly inaccurate.

bonkey

Weiss banned for a week for "attacking the poster", after already receiving an infraction today, on this thread, for the same thing.

ciaranoreilly

speaking from experience of having the swine flu two weeks ago, the TamiFlu tablets are perfectly safe to take. anyone who says they are is fulol of it. head cases who havent got anything better to do than judge everything and think everyone is against them! believe it or not doctors are trained people in this field!! who else you going to trust!!!

Stainless_Steel

humanji wrote: »

Well, in fairness, their priority really is the well being of the patients using their product

I would say their priority is having sick people so they can sell their products! If everyone was well there would be no market.

I believe its 100% plausible that pharma companies create flus and diseases...either create the virus itself or label certain symptoms as a disease, just to sell their products.

I have no scientific evidence for my opinion I'm afraid. But it is based on the logic that the pharma market is bloody whopping and without illness among humans its not so lucrative.

Note - my opinion is that the pharma conspiracy is plausible. In other words I believe you'd be mad to totally dismiss the possibility of man created illness.

bikeblues

ciaranoreilly wrote: »

speaking from experience of having the swine flu two weeks ago, the TamiFlu tablets are perfectly safe to take. anyone who says they are is fulol of it. head cases who havent got anything better to do than judge everything and think everyone is against them! believe it or not doctors are trained people in this field!! who else you going to trust!!!

i woulndt be trusting a fcuking doctor for one thing ,
human like the rest of us , prone to serious error like anyone else.

id be doing my own research and getting a number of opinons first .

but then again - some people are sheep , some are sheperds.

bikeblues

here is one take on it - what if it was a ll a conspiracy to get rid of the CT people ?

release a flu , none of the CT people take it - all die

sheep left over .

:D

humanji

bikeblues wrote: »

i woulndt be trusting a fcuking doctor for one thing ,
human like the rest of us , prone to serious error like anyone else.

id be doing my own research and getting a number of opinons first .

but then again - some people are sheep , some are sheperds.

Would you not at least get an opinion from a doctor who'd at least know what they're talking about?

samson09

tallaght01 wrote: »

To keep on the track of vaccination, the studies have all shown that vaccination and clean water have been the two biggest positive influences on better health in the last 100 years. Food, living and working conditions play their part, but vaccination is the biggy. You can talk about chickenpox and whooping cough. It may not have affected you, but I occasionally see kids die of both those diseases. While working in africa, I saw kids die of vaccine preventable disease every single day. they would bite your hand off for a vaccine.

Depending on your age, you possibly didn't get meningitis because of herd immunity. Google it. The people who don't vaccinate their kids rely on the goodwill of the rest of the community, who get their kids protected and reduce the overall incidence.

Swine flu vaccine is fine. Medics wouldn't be asking for it in the first round of vaccines if we thought it was unsafe.

Bullsh*t, bullsh*t, bullsh*t. Better sanitation, personal hygiene, better food and improved living conditions in general are the main factors which have resulted in increases in health in the past 100 years. The effectiveness of vaccination is probably the bigget fraud that has ever been touted in the history of medicine, show me one, just ONE, long term study that proves vaccination is safe and effective.

Going back to the Amish people, they never vaccinate themselves or their children. They have an almost zero rate of autism. The rate of autism in the UK has increased 1500% in the last 10 years alone due to increased vaccination. In California one in 150 children is autistic - a 54% increase since just 2001/2. The first cases of autism were described in the US shortly after the vaccines for whooping cough were introduced in the 1940s. When will people just wake up to thisvaccine BS?

samson09

humanji wrote: »

Would you not at least get an opinion from a doctor who'd at least know what they're talking about?

You're assuming they know what they are talking about, the unfortunate thing is that they have no idea whats happening. Doctors would never knowingly do something if they thought it might harm their patients. They're not greedy, money grabbing monsters, they're good people who want to care for others (most of the time anyway).

samson09

samson09 wrote: »

Going back to the Amish people, they never vaccinate themselves or their children. They have an almost zero rate of autism.

Small point about this.
The Amish people not only don't get vaccines they also don't get their children tested for stuff like autism.
Might skew that number a bit.

samson09

samson09 wrote: »

The effectiveness of vaccination is probably the bigget fraud that has ever been touted in the history of medicine, show me one, just ONE, long term study that proves vaccination is safe and effective.

There are many.

In fact take the 1976 swine flu vaccine oft touted by anti-vaxxers.
Near 40 million people were vaccinated only 500 reported serious side effects.
Only 25 out of 40,000,000 died.
That's way way safer than most cars. And certainly way way more safer than getting the disease.

How many long term studies can you show that prove vaccination is harmful?

uprising

alfranken wrote: »

Take it to the Jenny McCarthy fanclub samson you fcuk wad

Are the mods asleep, what is this twat still doing here?

6th

uprising wrote: »

Are the mods asleep, what is this twat still doing here?

Oh i'm sorry I wasnt online. Please forgive me. Would you like my mobile number so you can text me in future?

The returning banned user/troll has been banned but heres what else I should do:

• Infract uprising for off topic posting!
• Ban uprising for a week for personal abuse. (The fact it was directed at a troll does not excuse it).

Uprising, I'm getting sick of having to give you on thread warnings. You wont have a leg to stand on if you make a complaint when you eventually get a really long ban from this forum.

6th

Actually, uprising, banned for 2 weeks.

Keith186

bikeblues wrote: »

i woulndt be trusting a fcuking doctor for one thing ,
human like the rest of us , prone to serious error like anyone else.

id be doing my own research and getting a number of opinons first .

but then again - some people are sheep , some are sheperds.

So when you conduct your own research would you like to post it here for the rest of us. By research I presume you mean clinical research because I for one wouldn't be trusting the fcuking internet conspiracy theories fan club for one so I'll be relying on clinical tests to form an opinion.

Son Of A Vidic

<mod snip>Giving Medical advice is against the rules of Boards.ie<mod snip>

tallaght01

medicman2009 wrote: »

<mod snip>

I don't really want to get involved with this thread again. But you shouldn't be giving advice under the umbrella of some ill defined "medical background".

I know you're not a doctor. But if you knew anything about "the facts" you'd know that we're seeing anything between 25-60% of the deaths from this virus being in previously healthy people.

You should also know that antibiotics are useless against swine flu. The main cause of death/ICU admission has been primary viral pneumonitis. Some (I think it was 30% at the most) ended up with secondary bacterial pneumonia.

But the advice you're giving is very dodgy, and people should be aware of that. I've begun to accept that people will say what they want about vaccines, tamiflu and antidepressents on here. But using the authority of a "medical background" to give advice which is, essentially, negligent, is unethical.

Slugs

weiss wrote: »

well, i'm willing to take the risk and not get this vaccine because i'm sick and tired of government organisations and media spreading fear amongst the population about something that is just another flu, as you rightly say.

All these poisons the companies sell us are ****ing useless anyway.
As you pointed out, they need to generate new vaccine every year..with more clinical trials and tests...why bother?

when people are depressed, the doctor gives them anti-depressants, when a patient can't sleep, they get sleeping tablets..isn't this wonderful.

And what exactly did people do for centuries before this?

i have no doubt that when people receive the vaccine and might happen to die anyway, it will be reported as "complications of swine flu" which is the usual rhetorical headline BS for when the "medicine" just doesn't work the way it was intended.

Thanks, but no thanks.

They didn't do anything, for the simple reason, there wasn't as much depression as there was before. I think that says more about our society, then it does about the entire flue "pandemic".

6th

Giving medical advice is against the rules folks.

weiss

Woman left disabled by flu shot.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KyafuEHg0gk

Excellent work by science community, simply outstanding.

weiss

weiss wrote: »

Woman left disabled by flu shot.

Excellent work by science community, simply outstanding.

So do you have any scientific papers linking Dystonia and any kind of vaccine?

Are should we just take Fox's word on this one?

weiss

*large sigh* *rolls eyes*

but of course it couldn't be the vaccine, how could it be?
it was developed by scientists, they can't make mistakes.