The Government Could Not Have Continued In Office If There Had Been A "No" Vote

dresden8

This was the last chance we had before 2012, the government will throw the greens some crumbs and they will get the 70 billion or so away to their bondholder and shareholder mates through NAMA.

The country is finished.

Fuhrer

dresden8 wrote: »

This was the last chance we had before 2012, the government will throw the greens some crumbs and they will get the 70 billion or so away to their bondholder and shareholder mates through NAMA.

The country is finished.

This wasnt a general election.

dresden8

Fuhrer wrote: »

This wasnt a general election.

Prize for the obvious goes to....

Fuhrer

dresden8 wrote: »

Prize for the obvious goes to....

Not to you apparently.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

This was the last chance we had before 2012, the government will throw the greens some crumbs and they will get the 70 billion or so away to their bondholder and shareholder mates through NAMA.

The country is finished.

dude i know you're bitter, but no one is stating that this was a win for the government. not even cowen...so i dunno why you are getting worked up over it. lisbon is an european issue...NAMA is a national issue, as is the budget etc...

dresden8

Do you disagree that the Lisbon result saved the government?

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

Do you disagree that the Lisbon result saved the government?

yes because there was nothing endangering the government, since they have a comfortable majority in the dail, being elected there for 5 years. now why were they elected there for 5 years? i would like to know that too, but they were. so unless the majority will be somehow weakened or broken the government doesnt need to be 'saved' since there is nothing out there to get them

prinz

dresden8 wrote: »

Do you disagree that the Lisbon result saved the government?

Who do you think was going to lead a vote of no confidence? FG, Labour?? It's not like they didn't have a vested interest in a yes vote too. Give it up.

Fuhrer

dresden8 wrote: »

Do you disagree that the Lisbon result saved the government?

People who were going to vote for or against fianna fail in the general election will do so regardless of Lisbon

dresden8

I have it on good authority from a Fianna Failer that a No vote meant FF could not have continued in office.

A senior-ish FFer.

Fuhrer

dresden8 wrote: »

I have it on authority from a Fianna Failer that a No vote meant FF could not have continued in office.

Oh, so the rules of government have changed magically or secretly then?

namloc1980

dresden8 wrote: »

I have it on authority from a Fianna Failer that a No vote meant FF could not have continued in office.

Was this Fianna Failer, Brian Cowen by any chance?

prinz

dresden8 wrote: »

I have it on good authority from a Fianna Failer that a No vote meant FF could not have continued in office.

A senior-ish FFer.

O is this Willie O'Dea on TV earlier? :pac: yeah you mentioned that already, and no he didn't say that FF could not have continued in office.

jank

Dresden8 has a point. The government doesn't give 2 hoots about the people. IF it did it would offer itself up in an election before NAMA. The fact remains that this was the ONLY time the public could have folded the government with an election until 2012.

Anyway continue on about the budget and NAMA.....
I have lost a lot of my faith in the Irish people over the last few months on how meek we are and continuiously take it up the ass from people who "know better" about NAMA, Lisbon, Unions, Expenses etc.

I am submitting my final residency forms this week. I am not sure if I ever want to go back, that is how much the government and the public reaction has made me turn against my home country.:(

dresden8

prinz wrote: »

O is this Willie O'Dea on TV earlier? :pac: yeah you mentioned that already, and no he didn't say that FF could not have continued in office.

I didn't mention Willie O'Dea today. Is this a yes side lie?

Rb

Did Lisbon 1 sink the Government?

prinz

jank wrote: »

The fact remains that this was the ONLY time the public could have folded the government with an election until 2012...

No, it really wasn't. Goodbye

Fuhrer

jank wrote: »

The fact remains that this was the ONLY time the public could have folded the government with an election until 2012.

How?

This wasnt a general election, no outcome of this referndum would have any effect on the government being folded or not.

dresden8

Rb wrote: »

Did Lisbon 1 sink the Government?

That was Cowen's first failure. This would have been the last of a long line of failures.

prinz

dresden8 wrote: »

I didn't mention Willie O'Dea today. Is this a yes side lie?

Sincere apologies

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62382079&postcount=45

dresden8

prinz wrote: »

Sincere apologies

http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62382079&postcount=45

Thanks, didn't see that.

That makes one Minister and one senior-ish person who disagree with you folks.

prinz

dresden8 wrote: »

Thanks, didn't see that.
That makes one Minister and one senior-ish person who disagree with you folks.

Glad I could help the only problem is that Paulie was being a bit liberal with the reality of what Willie O'Dea actually said.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

That was Cowen's first failure. This would have been the last of a long line of failures.

how do you know? the man has had so many failures in that year and a half in power that you'd think he got used to them. maybe this time he'll think he can succeed and when he fails again will be so broken that he resigns...sounds too far fetched? well just trying to think along the lines of the OP

dresden8

Mario007 wrote: »

how do you know? the man has had so many failures in that year and a half in power that you'd think he got used to them. maybe this time he'll think he can succeed and when he fails again will be so broken that he resigns...sounds too far fetched? well just trying to think along the lines of the OP

Like I said, It's a senior-ish FFer who thinks the government could not have continued in office, I just happen to agree with him, and said so before the vote, and today's "revelation".

Fuhrer

dresden8 wrote: »

Like I said, It's a senior-ish FFer who thinks the government could not have continued in office, I just happen to agree with him, and said so before the vote, and today's "revelation".

I just talked to the same person and he said you're lying.

dresden8

Fuhrer wrote: »

I just talked to the same person and he said you're lying.

Now that's a lie, and you know it.

You sir, are a fibber.

Fuhrer

dresden8 wrote: »

Now that's a lie, and you know it.

Prove me wrong.

dresden8

Fuhrer wrote: »

Prove me wrong.

How can I do that?

Mr. Fibber.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

Like I said, It's a senior-ish FFer who thinks the government could not have continued in office, I just happen to agree with him, and said so before the vote, and today's "revelation".

and i was talking to a FG TD and FG MEP and Pat Cox and none of them mentioned even the possibilty of this government going down if there was a no vote.

the only one to mix it all together was Ganley and Higgins. they thought this was a vote on Lisbon, Europe, NATO, Privatisation, NAMA and the government.

dresden8

Mario007 wrote: »

and i was talking to a FG TD and FG MEP and Pat Cox and none of them mentioned even the possibilty of this government going down if there was a no vote.

the only one to mix it all together was Ganley and Higgins. they thought this was a vote on Lisbon, Europe, NATO, Privatisation, NAMA and the government.

Not the only one.

Fuhrer

dresden8 wrote: »

How can I do that?

Mr. Fibber.

Yes well, you see the problem with you claiming an anonymouse source told you such information?

It just makes you look like a liar.

kippy

jank wrote: »

Dresden8 has a point. The government doesn't give 2 hoots about the people. IF it did it would offer itself up in an election before NAMA. The fact remains that this was the ONLY time the public could have folded the government with an election until 2012.

Anyway continue on about the budget and NAMA.....
I have lost a lot of my faith in the Irish people over the last few months on how meek we are and continuiously take it up the ass from people who "know better" about NAMA, Lisbon, Unions, Expenses etc.

I am submitting my final residency forms this week. I am not sure if I ever want to go back, that is how much the government and the public reaction has made me turn against my home country.:(

I dont understand why a no result today would have removed the government from office. It didnt last time.........

I am glad the people of Ireland didnt get as confused as some people about what the vote was about.

There's a fairly high chance that the greens grass roots members will take down the government over NAMA, if all out public strikes dont first.

So we all "take it up the ass"..... I think you'll find that given the proper conditions the government will be dumped, this just wasnt the method by which to do it.

Good luck in N.Z, a country that has no problems what so ever.
You speak of people being meek and taking it up the ass, you do worse and feck off when the going gets slightly tough. Fair play to you, I wish you well, I hear the winter sports are good out there.

PaulieD

Mario007 wrote: »

dude i know you're bitter, but no one is stating that this was a win for the government. not even cowen...so i dunno why you are getting worked up over it. lisbon is an european issue...NAMA is a national issue, as is the budget etc...

This is what will happen. Cowen and Co will claim the result of Lisbon gives him and his party a mandate "to implement the tough decisions."

-Nama will pass.
-Unemployment will reach 550,000 by mid spring.
-Fianna Fail and the Greens will stay in power until the summer of 2012.
-The budget will crucify the average worker, there will be devestating cuts across the board.
-Yes for recovery and all that malarkey will be conveniently forgotten about.
-Multinationals will pull out and relocate to Eastern Europe and Asia.

There has only been one winner in Ireland today, Fianna Fail. I hope Fine Gael and Labour enjoy their next three years in opposition.

Fuhrer

PaulieD wrote: »

This is what will happen. Cowen and Co will claim the result of Lisbon gives him and his party a mandate "to implement the tough decisions."

-Nama will be passed.
-Unemployment will reach 550,000 by mid spring.
-Fianna Fail and the Greens will stay in power until the summer of 2012.
-The budget will crucify the average worker, there will be devestating cuts across the board.
-Yes for recovery and all that malarkey will be conveniently forgotten about.

Any chance, did that crystal ball you have show any results of football matches coming up?

Might have a flutter

dresden8

PaulieD wrote: »

I hope Fine Gael and Labour enjoy their next three years in opposition.

The problem is, I think they will.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

Not the only one.

ok sorry i forgot to include Green in it.

if you were refering to the yes side, then yes they also did mix it up by joining Lisbon with Europe, but as you see no is still winning

PaulieD

dresden8 wrote: »

That was Cowen's first failure. This would have been the last of a long line of failures.

Sometimes you need somebody to point out the obvious. The backbenchers would have forced Cowen out if he failed once more, with Lisbon part deux. Alas, it wasnt to be. We are stuck with them until 2012.

dresden8

Mario007 wrote: »

ok sorry i forgot to include Green in it.

if you were refering to the yes side, then yes they also did mix it up by joining Lisbon with Europe, but as you see no is still winning

I don't understand.

CCCP^

PaulieD wrote: »

This is what will happen. Cowen and Co will claim the result of Lisbon gives him and his party a mandate "to implement the tough decisions."

-Nama will pass.
-Unemployment will reach 550,000 by mid spring.
-Fianna Fail and the Greens will stay in power until the summer of 2012.
-The budget will crucify the average worker, there will be devestating cuts across the board.
-Yes for recovery and all that malarkey will be conveniently forgotten about.
-Multinationals will pull out and relocate to Eastern Europe and Asia.

There has only been one winner in Ireland today, Fianna Fail. I hope Fine Gael and Labour enjoy their next three years in opposition.

Jesus, screw that, I thought 1984 was bleak but thats terrible. **** this.

meglome

Some of you people are hi-larious. We the people of Ireland voted in a shíte government, repeatedly. Now we're all living with the decision. If you don't like representative democracy then I suggest you vote in a bunch of fascists, it worked well in Germany I heard.

Did the Yes people whine this much the last time?

PaulieD

Fuhrer wrote: »

Any chance, did that crystal ball you have show any results of football matches coming up?

Might have a flutter

I will happily put my money where my mouth is. What odds will you give me?

Mario007

PaulieD wrote: »

This is what will happen. Cowen and Co will claim the result of Lisbon gives him and his party a mandate "to implement the tough decisions."

-Nama will pass.
-Unemployment will reach 550,000 by mid spring.
-Fianna Fail and the Greens will stay in power until the summer of 2012.
-The budget will crucify the average worker, there will be devestating cuts across the board.
-Yes for recovery and all that malarkey will be conveniently forgotten about.
-Multinationals will pull out and relocate to Eastern Europe and Asia.

There has only been one winner in Ireland today, Fianna Fail. I hope Fine Gael and Labour enjoy their next three years in opposition.

yet again the only one who said that this gives cowen a mandate is ganley...cowen himself first thanked the opposition parties and didn't thus take it as a sign of endorsement.

PaulieD

CCCP^ wrote: »

Jesus, screw that, I thought 1984 was bleak but thats terrible. **** this.

I can see it easily happening. It is staring us in the face. Let us not kid ourselves.

meglome

PaulieD wrote: »

Sometimes you need somebody to point out the obvious. The backbenchers would have forced Cowen out if he failed once more, with Lisbon part deux. Alas, it wasnt to be. We are stuck with them until 2012.

sigh...

And he would be replaced in normal circumstances by his second in command, Mary Coughlan. There are indeed worse things than Brian Cowan,

PaulieD

Mario007 wrote: »

yet again the only one who said that this gives cowen a mandate is ganley...cowen himself first thanked the opposition parties and didn't thus take it as a sign of endorsement.

Ganley was playing the game, Mario. If you believed him, you would swallow a brick.;)

PaulieD

meglome wrote: »

sigh...

And he would be replaced in normal circumstances by his second in command, Mary Coughlan. There are indeed worse things than Brian Cowan,

If Cowen was pushed Fianna Fail would had to have an election. Not even Fianna Fail would push three taoiseachs on us since the last election.

Mario007

dresden8 wrote: »

I don't understand.

i meant to say that no included everything into this referendum from lisbon to NATO through NAMA whereas yes only had Europe and Lisbon included

Kama

Green Party talks on a new Programme for Government will continue in Leinster House today as results come in from the Lisbon referendum.
Party sources accepted yesterday that a second 'No' outcome would make them academic.

Independent

Mario007

PaulieD wrote: »

Ganley was playing the game, Mario. If you believed him, you would swallow a brick.;)

no i dont believe him, thats why i said it. it's obvious that the admiration from ganley to cowen was supposed to make people say 'damn now cowen will stay in power forever, i could have voted him out' even though thats not true.

dresden8

PaulieD wrote: »

If Cowen was pushed Fianna Fail would had to have an election. Not even Fianna Fail would push three taoiseachs on us since the last election.

According to my source "a change of government would have been inevitable." "extraordinarily difficult to stay in power."

Direct quotes.

CCCP^

PaulieD wrote: »

I can see it easily happening. It is staring us in the face. Let us not kid ourselves.

We will have to fight this tooth and nail, no two ways about it. There is no way I want to face the future previous described, I'd rather leave this country (and I love this country) than face the indignity and embarressment.