Should I approach or better to avoid?

LegacyUser

Hi,

First of all some background. I'm a 20 year old guy (living at home) and I have never really had a girlfriend or been in any sort of sexual relationship ever in my life. I'm severely self-conscious and usually avoid social contact whatsoever unless necessary. I am a VERY anti-social person.

Past experiences (mainly during primary/secondary school) have no doubt contributed to my very low self esteem. Although tbh I have faced the facts now. I'm pretty sure I am not a very attractive guy at all.. Sometimes I'd go as far as calling myself ugly.. These feelings make me feel so lonely and leave me feeling hopeless.

I am a musician and the only thing I really do during the week that involves going out is performing in a local pub with a jam band. This happens once or twice a week.

Now there is this really good looking waitress there who I find incredibly attractive and I'd love to be able to talk to her but the thing is at this stage I have almost come to accept that having a girlfriend is just pretty much something that I am not capable of nor something I will ever get to experience. The women I am usually attracted to are who I would usually class as simply being out of my league. That justs seems to be the case in my eyes and I cannot help that I am attracted to these type of women.. In the past (now this would have been towards the end of secondary school) I suffered a lot of rejection and embarrassment after taking up the courage to ask girls out. It pretty much destroyed me socially as I have stated. So now everytime I see someone I am really attracted to I get overcome with deep depression due to me having to convince myself that no matter how much I might like to be with this woman it would never happen and attempting to interact would have only ended up scarring me even further.

Sorry I clearly waffled on there and have ended up slightly off topic but I just couldn't help getting my feelings out. Thanks for listening I guess and perhaps people who might be experiencing similar issues could relate/advise.

VinnyTGM

Just start chating to her, ask her what she think's about the music.
Then see where it goe's from there.

Firetrap

Yeah, I agree with the person above me. Work on chatting to her and see how she reacts.

It saddens me that you think so little of yourself I hope you become more confident in yourself as time goes on. I'm a woman and I know that beauty is skin deep. It doesn't matter to most women if you're not Brad Pitt if you're a nice guy who they can chat to and find interesting. There are all sorts of unconventionally attractive men out there. You make your own face to a certain extent. So if you're smiling and pleasant, you will be surprisingly attractive. Don't let those girls who rejected you when you were younger get you down. As people get older, they start seeing the bigger picture. That gorgeous looks don't equal gorgeous person. I know which one I'd go for any day.

LegacyUser

Thank you for the replies.

It's really not that simple for me (to just go up and start chatting). And what makes it more difficult is the busy setting (overcrowded pub). Looking at her as she's rushing about serving the drinks I just get the impression she just wants to get on with her job. And also as I said, past experiences have left me feeling very cautious. I manage to make a fool out of myself all the time in almost every situation (let alone attempting to chat up a girl..). I dread the outcome of approaching her.. I just don't know what a rejection would do to me or how badly it would affect me..

The fear is just paralysing.. even to think about it..

LegacyUser

Amazing how one can build themselves up in their heads to be an ugly bastard, isn't it? I did it. Like yourself OP, "friends" in school and teenage years with acne and buck teeth built me up in my head as a trollesque mutant.

But in my 20's I discovered I actually wasn't a bad looking lad, and towards the latter half of my 20's I actually realised I was fairly alright looking. I just have regrets about effectively wasting 4 years of uni feeling sorry for myself like you are now, when I could have been out scoring hotties.

My guess is that you are not as minging as you think you are. At worst you are only OK. But the beauty of this (pardon pun) is that looks matter a lot less to girls than they do to lads. I have very average looking mates that bring home different girls every weekend. And you are in a band. You realise the advantage of this for wimmins? Seriously. I DJ, I know. They LOVE it.

You main problem is confidence. You need to start observing lads that are great with girls. What they do and what they say and how you can learn from them. Once you're confident in yourself a girl will pick up that vibe off you and scoring will be a hell of a lot easier.

I was lucky in that I had a mate as a mentor in this department that got me out of the situation you're in now. And I have a long term gf that I adore. But I was 23ish when I had my epiphany. Don't waste the next three years moping around feeling sorry for yourself and pulling your wire like I did!

There's lots of books written about how to pick up women. A famous one is The Game by Neil Strauss. Look it up. I personally wouldn't advocate this approach as I would like to think that a girl is going for me personally and not just some facade I am assuming in order to bone her, but I have heard the techniques described in them work really really well and they might be good a starting point for you to get your head together.

muboop1

ah dude, its simple, talk to her on her break after work etc...
Always possible if you want to!

Girls also (let me be sexist a moment :rolleyes:)
Well girls tend to not be for the most part as "into" looks as we(males) are.
Don't get me wrong, looks matter but they are often less shallow and can fall for people based more on personality etc...

Iv seen some good looking girls with terrible guys!

Just go talk, whats worst thing that happens! She brushes you off and goes back to work, meh shes in work kinda to be expected. You talk to her and it goes well... you have a date, or a mate! whatever! For all you know she is taken even!

But you will never know unless you go say hi!

LegacyUser

Avoiding rejection works in the short term, but it's not the answer. You might have a few less rejections under your belt, but denying yourself a girlfriend isn't being kind either.
You're still young, do what ever you need to do to build confidence, work out, get a new look, but for your own sake, don't give up on yourself.

Mrmoe

Go talk to her you have nothing to lose. Good looking men tend to be a rare species so do not feel inferior to the rest of the male species. You have more than enough to attract her but it all has to start first with you talking to her. Nothing will happen otherwise. You have nothing to lose from this situation. It can be hard to overcome this fear but you must at least try. You do not have to ask her out straight away, go up to her and ask her if she enjoyed the music you played, you can use this a setup up to ask her out, ask her what music she likes and ask her to a gig/show.

LegacyUser

I have decided I might try talking to her. I still have the same level of fear and nervousness but at the same time I am wasting away here and I really have to try and do something about it..

When I'd feel comfortable to do it though is another matter though as there are a few physical aspects about myself that may lessen my chances so to speak.. so I may be better off waiting until I have them sorted (if I ever do).

First of all I have quite long hair, in a ponytail most of the time, and although I wouldn't really mind having it cut short I am quite self conscious about my head size (it's quite large and roundish) and I fear that if I had a short hair style my head might appear larger (or rounder more specifically). I don't believe that's a very attractive quality.. but then again my head still looks big with long hair anyway and long hair is surely not very attractive either right?

Also, although I apparently have naturally good teeth, I require braces to correct one stray tooth on the right side of my mouth that was pushed upwards in my gum which also caused the tooth next to it to become slightly pushed backwards. Basically the left side of my mouth looks literally perfect (as well as th whole bottom row) apart from those two f*ckers on the right side. I never got braces though because I was already too self conscious and did not (and still don't) need that burden which would further affect my social life. I had been told by my dentist that I would need them for 2yrs which is not going to happen, ever, and I would sooner have it pulled out. I have not had a second opinion from this other place that claims to do 6 month braces though but I'm doubtful I'll qualify for some reason. My bad luck would likely kick in. So do you think, from what I have described, this would be a turn off?

That's pretty much all the details I'm willing to go into, and I would appreciate any honest thoughts/advice you can offer. Thanks you for the responses so far.

sugar_smile

Hi OP,

Wow reading your thread has really made me feel so sad-please do not beat yourself up. You seem like a really kind, sensitive and talented guy who's only problem is a lack of self esteem-nothing to do with your looks! Girls are interested in guys with a personality-they don't have to look like Brad Pitt (and to be fair there aren't many guys walking around looing like him anyway). I personally care more about a guys personality-not his face! You are in a band which means you have a wonderful talent something you should be proud of and want to share with the world, this is something you are good at and obviously able to talk about!-this is probably your gateway to getting to know this girl or any other girl. Maybe get chatting to her about the music-does she like it etc and if so ask her to come see you play on her day off or something!

If things don't go to well with this girl (as someone mentioned she may already be taken) at least you have gotten over that first plunge-you can then concentrate on talking to more people! You essentially have to believe in yourself for others to believe in you! Walk outside with your head held high, a smile on your face--it will work wonders!

I hope all goes wel for you-and remember-if in doubt just smile!!!

ash23

She works in a bar. She is hit on at least 5 times a day, more at weekends. Trust me. Guys like the girls who serve them beer. They also like to be able to say "I pulled the bar maid from x pub".

The reason I say this is that I wouldn't ask her out until you have built up some sort of rapport with her as she will probably knock you back. I worked in pubs for years and most men just want the bar girl, not the actual person. It works both ways. Bar men get laid, a lot!

I would hate for you to ask her out and for her to reject you without even considering it (which you tend to do when it happens a lot).
Get talking to her first. Make friends with her. And after you get to know her, then ask her out.

Sanjuro

Hey OP.

You need to drop the idea that somebody is out of your league. That's a myth. I realised this years ago when I ended up with a girl I had previously thought was out of my league. When we met, I thought she was great and that I'd love to date her, but much like you think with your girl, I thought there was no way she'd ever date somebody like me. Because I had reconciled myself with this 'fact,' I dropped the barriers and pretenses we all put up when we like somebody and was able to be myself. No pretending to be what I thought was 'cooler' than my usual self or whatever. And lo and behold, she ended up going after me.

There is no such thing as leagues. Just compatibility. I didn't think I was good-looking enough for that girl and yet looks were not what she found most attractive about me. I know the old cliche of 'be yourself' never works. And to be honest, nobody is ever themselves when talking to somebody they're attracted to. It's just human nature to try and make yourself out to be better than you perceive yourself to be. But what I will say is, don't put this girl up on a pedastal or class her as someone unattainable. Everyone is pretty much attainable to some degree. What is important is how compatible two people are.

Just my two cents.

tbh

slow steps.

what you sound like you are trying to do is to hitch your wagon to this girl. If you can get with a girl you find really attractive, then the rest of your problems will start to solve themselves.

unfortunately, the world doesn't quite work like that. People hook up with other people because there's something about the other person they find interesting and exciting. It's also a lot to do with confidence. You're at zero at the moment. It'd be like you trying to run a marathon within days of buying your first pair of trainers.

If I could give you any advice, it would be to play the long game, rather than the short. You don't know this girl, you know nothing about her, and your crush on her is based purely on physical terms. Because you are lonely, you're projecting a lot on her. You assume she's sound and she's kind, and everything you are looking for in a girl. She may be, she may not be. However, she's one girl out of 2 million in Ireland. There are hundreds and thousands of attractive, cute single girls in this country. Therefore, if you don't get with this girl, it doesn't mean that you'll never find anyone for the rest of your life.

What I would suggest is, banish the thoughts of ever hooking up with this girl from your head. Concentrate on using her for practice instead. Practise talking to girls. Most guys get nervous around girls because they want to have sex with them, and are unsure how to move the situation from talking to them to having sex with them.

If you accept the fact that you're not going to have sex with her, then you don't need to worry about saying or doing the wrong thing, because it's not going to matter anyway. She's just a girl. If you don't want to have sex with her, talking to her is just like talking to a guy. the pressure is off. The more you talk to her, the easier talking to girls will be.

the brain reacts to stressful situations by trying to recall similar situations in the past, and what you did that time. Therefore, the first time you do anything is always very stressful. Start chatting to girls without trying to pull them, and you'll start to appear more confident. Start appearing more confident and you'll start to send out the signal that you have things to be confident about. Start sending out that signal and girls will be interested and excited, and eventually you'll meet a girl who digs you as much as you dig her. and talking to this girl in the bar will mean that, when that day comes, you'll be more relaxed because you'll have talked to loads of girls before, and this is just the same as that.

the trick about being confident is to pretend that you're confident. You're there looking at the coolest girl in the room, worrying about your big head. She's thinking about her odd-shaped boobs, or her wrinkles or any one of a thousand things that you'd never even notice, just like she'd never notice your big head. We're all swans dude, on the surface we're calm and serene, underneath we're paddling like crap. You're no different to anyone else. That's not a bad thing.

baby steps. Long game.

LegacyUser

It's isn't quite clear to me whether the OP has ever chatted to the girl in question.
But I agree with other posters who said the OP should take the pressure off himself by banishing any immediate thoughts of getting her to be a girlfriend and concentrate on the baby steps of making contact, making an aquaintance, then a friend, then, who knows?

I'd suggest the OP sets a small task for himself each and every time he's in the pub with the band, e.g. Say something to the girl, something simple, nothing overt - avoid sounding like everyone else, or a creep! Like another poster said, I'm sure the girl gets enough hassle every night, so something simple, something genuinely positive or complimentary should stand out.

And after each and every task is completed successfully, the OP should feel he has succeeded in his self-set task, he should allow himself to feel good about himself for doing it and gradually this might build some confidence and hopefully go a step towards establishing a rapport with this girl.

Good luck to you OP.

LegacyUser

Thanks once again for all the helpful advice. I'll see what the atmosphere is like when I'm in the pub next and depending on how I'm feeling I may or may not talk to her. Anyway I just have to hope for the best. Thanks again.

Novella

OP, I am actually shocked by how little you think of yourself. I know you say your ego has been bruised by rejection when you were younger but honestly, we are all rejected at some stage, in one way or another. You can't always take these things to heart. You seem like a really nice guy and even if you're not drop dead gorgeous, girls aren't so shallow as to pass over an opportunity with a great guy because he's no Brad Pitt or whatever. Perhaps when you were younger, they were, but as people get older and more mature, other attributes begin to matter more than physical one's because we are looking for a life partner or even just something more serious than someone to kiss on a night out.

You say you are scared to approach the girl you like. All I can say is, don't be! You think she's busy with work but I know myself that sometimes when I'm in work I can look like I'm very busy but I'd actually love someone to come over and have a chat with me! All you need to do is smile at her, say hey, ask how she is, is she having a busy night, anything to open a conversation. Once you get on speaking terms, you can take it from there.

You asked do girls find guys with long hair a turn off. I'm a twenty year old female and I've dated guys with long hair. I've also dated a guy with braces and you mentioned those as something you weren't really willing to look into. I had braces for years when I was younger, as did a lot of people so no one is going to judge you for that or be turned off and I can honestly say they boost your self esteem so much when you get them taken off.

I'm really worried about your self confidence issue though. You have talked yourself down in this thread so much and I just think it's so sad. Try to stop focusing on everything you think is bad about yourself and pick out some good points. There was a thread, I think it was in The Ladies Lounge, where everyone had to list 10 things they liked about themselves. You should do that. I can guarantee there are ten things about you that are amazing but which you are hiding behind these feelings of self dislike. Try to focus on the positive as opposed to the negative.

It's half 2 in the morning now so my advice isn't really isn't the best but good luck, I will check back at a more decent hour to see how things are going for you.

LegacyUser

Just a little update.

I have not yet tried talking to her. Last time I played at the pub was a few nights ago, and I'm not certain on anything but I found her to be looking at me while passing a couple of times. Now I would never ever go on this alone (I'm terrible at picking up on signs) and I would say that it probably means nothing but it lifted my confidence a bit to the point I was really ready to try talking to her. I eventually lost the courage to do it as the night went on and it didn't happen.

I am getting my hair cut short this week in hopes of it helping my confidence. And perhaps it was better that I didn't approach until this has been done. I'm sorry I still cannot get over the looks/self esteem issue..

Although I think the main thing that is holding me back and making this so difficult is the fact that she works there and is clearly going about her job. Trying to stop her just to have a chat might create a scene and that is definately the last thing I need.

Basically I am struggling to find a way to approach without looking desperate or drawing attention.. There is so much at risk here.

I know you guys would have diffuculty in helping me here, and can only do so much, as you do not know pub in question and what the atmosphere is like... but I really don't have anyone else to turn to/get advice from without feeling uncomfortable and embarrassed. I'm sorry for ressurecting this thread (I'm probably becoming a pain in the arse) but you've probably gathered now that I really want to get to know this girl and I don't think I can do it without further guidence. If someone has approached a waitress/barmaid in a similar setting then sharing your experience would be helpful too.

If you can offer any further advice to help me to get through this or perhaps make me better able for it, I would appreciate it. Thanks for everything so far.

troubleshooter

Loner09 wrote: »

Hi,

First of all some background. I'm a 20 year old guy (living at home) and I have never really had a girlfriend or been in any sort of sexual relationship ever in my life. I'm severely self-conscious and usually avoid social contact whatsoever unless necessary. I am a VERY anti-social person.

Past experiences (mainly during primary/secondary school) have no doubt contributed to my very low self esteem. Although tbh I have faced the facts now. I'm pretty sure I am not a very attractive guy at all.. Sometimes I'd go as far as calling myself ugly.. These feelings make me feel so lonely and leave me feeling hopeless.

I am a musician and the only thing I really do during the week that involves going out is performing in a local pub with a jam band. This happens once or twice a week.

Now there is this really good looking waitress there who I find incredibly attractive and I'd love to be able to talk to her but the thing is at this stage I have almost come to accept that having a girlfriend is just pretty much something that I am not capable of nor something I will ever get to experience. The women I am usually attracted to are who I would usually class as simply being out of my league. That justs seems to be the case in my eyes and I cannot help that I am attracted to these type of women.. In the past (now this would have been towards the end of secondary school) I suffered a lot of rejection and embarrassment after taking up the courage to ask girls out. It pretty much destroyed me socially as I have stated. So now everytime I see someone I am really attracted to I get overcome with deep depression due to me having to convince myself that no matter how much I might like to be with this woman it would never happen and attempting to interact would have only ended up scarring me even further.

Sorry I clearly waffled on there and have ended up slightly off topic but I just couldn't help getting my feelings out. Thanks for listening I guess and perhaps people who might be experiencing similar issues could relate/advise.

Im sure your this attitude goes throughout your life, you need to sort to your head out/work on your inner game, get some confidence.

scarymoon1

hi op

I think because you still havn't approached her you are making it into a bigger issue than it actually is. You are making yourself more and more nervous. The more you think about going up talking to her the more it seems a bigger deal. What i try to do is just not think about it - she is just another human being - just like you You seem to be obsessing over it at this point.When you're in the pub - try and get a drink off her and say it's busy or something, i duno. Then next time say more etc etc.

LegacyUser

scarymoon1 wrote: »

hi op

I think because you still havn't approached her you are making it into a bigger issue than it actually is. You are making yourself more and more nervous. The more you think about going up talking to her the more it seems a bigger deal. What i try to do is just not think about it - she is just another human being - just like you You seem to be obsessing over it at this point.When you're in the pub - try and get a drink off her and say it's busy or something, i duno. Then next time say more etc etc.

Thanks for the suggestion, thats seems easy enough I suppose. And yeah I know I am only making it harder the longer I put it off. In fact I've just realized I did actually have a good opportunity to say something to her up at the bar when she was next to me collecting drinks yet I obviously chickened out. I am kicking myself now! Although everything always does seem much easier once your out of the situation and looking back..

I feel under quite a bit of pressure now though after I went another week without saying anything, because even if she was/is single she may not be by the time I even manage to say a single word to her.. God I really sound pathetic here I'm sorry..

Also another thing I forgot to mention (although not sure if it's that relevent) is that I don't go to the pub with any of my friends. So being that I don't know any of the musicians I play with there very well, I kind of feel a bit isolated and I'm not sure wether going with friends would make things any easier for me. Not that I would seek advice from them, but perhaps it would make things I easier I don't know..

Open to any further advice.

barr toco

hi op,
i dont think having other people their like your friends or the musicians, to no whats actually going on will help, because if your going to try and talk to this girl and give her a smile now and then it will only make you more warry wondering about what they think if you talk to her,
its just my opinion, and dont forget thers loads more girls out their,
keep your options open.

badabinbadaboom

OP its as simple as this.

Next time she's next to you collecting glasses or pouring pints. Just say something completely innocuous like.

"Big crowd tonight tonight isn't there"

Or

"Quiet night isn't it"

Or any kind of mild observation on the general run of things

Now this is a very easy thing for most people to do but you may find it hard having such low self esteem.
However, things like this mean absolutely nothing. Its how most people make conversation with barmen/ladies. So it wont seem like you are coming onto her and you wont feel embarrassed.

Then you will have the most basic thing accomplished, you will have actually spoken to someone who you don't know and without any introduction.
Practice this.
Next time your waiting for the shopkeeper to print out credit or something
"The weather is[insert appropriate adjective]"
You see to be brutally honest, how can you expect to chat up a girl when you cant even simply chat to her in any other context?
It doesnt have to be interesting or anything you just need to learn that when you say something to someone they dont automatically judge you on it.

LegacyUser

So I pretty much failed... Left the place totally embarrassed.

I went to her at the bar as she was waiting for some drinks, said hi and asked her her name. She was friendly and told me her name with a smile and I told her mine. Then in an attempt to get into a conversation I asked her if she liked the music that was being played. She said no (not in any harsh tone or anything). I replied with 'so you don't like such and such (insert genre)?' She answered no again. I then turned towards the bar for a second to think of what I was going to say to her next and before I could continue the conversation she had left with her order..

So a pretty pathetic end to the conversation right?... I shouldn't have hesitated!!! I passed her later as I was leaving but didn't say anything.

Should I even bother talking to her again after this!?

Please forgive my typing, I'm quite drunk right now. I'd appreciate your feedback/analysis as I'm feeling terrible and humiliated and once again this is the only place I can turn to.

jimd2

Dont beat yourself up too much about this. She probably has guys asking her loads of questions and it is almost certain she has forgotten those questions.

If I were you I would play it by ear the next time. See if she is friendly to you and you could always make a joke of the fact that she has to "put up" with this music she doesnt like. If she is willing to chat on and off with you then you may have a chance.

LegacyUser

jimd2 wrote: »

Dont beat yourself up too much about this. She probably has guys asking her loads of questions and it is almost certain she has forgotten those questions.

If I were you I would play it by ear the next time. See if she is friendly to you and you could always make a joke of the fact that she has to "put up" with this music she doesnt like. If she is willing to chat on and off with you then you may have a chance.

Thanks for the reply. I can't help but feel I have blown the all important first impression though. I'm worried that by me seemingly ending the conversation after she said she didn't like the style of music, I may have given her the impression that I was not interested in her anymore. This is of course if she was interested in me at all in the first place..

Is there really a next time? I need to be sure I won't come across as desperate or creepy approaching her a second time after my less than ideal chat up attempt..

I do feel it could have gone worse though, and it's only really the fact that I hesitated and didn't finish the conversation properly that has me frustrated and wondering how I came across or if I might have put her off.. So some honest opinions from you guys as to how you think I might have come across from what I have detailed would be of great help also.

After seeing how friendly a person she is I like her a lot more and I just feel even more upset and depressed over the situation now! I hope I haven't blown it... The bad memories are rushing back.....

barr toco

Loner09 wrote: »

So I pretty much failed... Left the place totally embarrassed.


op, you didnt fail at all i think you did very well, as has been pointed out already she would get chatted up alot and the usual every day bar talk so dont be put off that it wasnt anything spectacular, the main thing is that you have broken the ice and the next time you speak to her she wont just see you as a random customer in the bar but a regular, and a person that she could talk to, i think your progress is good

TheCandystripes

look op real life isnt like the movies, if this was the movies, this girl would have a deep interesting persona under her mask she portrays to the outside world but the reality is shes probably a boring irish idiot who wants her boyfriend to play ****e music like aslan.

LegacyUser

Thanks for the reassurance barr toco.

If you honestly think I did okay then I will probably have another go at talking to her again next week. Could use more opinions on this though.

I just wish I had a better idea by now as to wether she is interested in me or not. If I knew she was likely interested then it would make things so much easier for me. Would she be putting more effort in to talk to me if she was interested? Or is it generally always the guy that has to do all the work? I wish this didn't have to be so hard..

TheCandystripes, I don't know her musical interests yet, but they certainly wouldn't put me off her as I am well aware of the general lack of popularity of the music I like and don't expect many people I meet to like it anyway.

LegacyUser

I thik I'd like to ask for her number as a means to 'get to know her better' as I've been thinking, and taking a slow approach is not going to work for me in this kind of setting. I'd be lucky to get in a few rushed words a week and it's going to take me nowhere. I just want to get it over with as I'm so stressed over this and I'm destroying myself mentally constantly thinking about how I came across the other night... I can't go through this every week. At the same time though I really don't want to blow it!! So can anyone tell me if they think this is at all likely to work (valid excuse to ask for her number as the busy atmosphere is impossible to converse in) or is it destined to fail?? I badly need peoples thoughts/experties as I'm sick of listening to my thoughts.. it's torture.

LegacyUser

Seriously dude there should be a support group for guys like us!
I only asked a girl out for the first time ever a few days ago and I'm 21. Your definitely not alone.
Anyway heres just a few words of encouragement from one to another.
You've taken the first step, you actually went up and tried to make conversation. Fair play thats tough. Hopefully next time it will be easier.
Now I'm no expert on the matter clearly. But if I was you I'd hold off asking for her number for a little while, try make more conversation.
Try not to look like your making a supreme effort. Just arrange things so you happen to bump into her in the bar every so often.
Good luck man, its really tough I was bricking it. And dont worry about rejection either just go forth and find another if nothing happens

LegacyUser

loner wrote: »

Seriously dude there should be a support group for guys like us!
I only asked a girl out for the first time ever a few days ago and I'm 21. Your definitely not alone.
Anyway heres just a few words of encouragement from one to another.
You've taken the first step, you actually went up and tried to make conversation. Fair play thats tough. Hopefully next time it will be easier.
Now I'm no expert on the matter clearly. But if I was you I'd hold off asking for her number for a little while, try make more conversation.
Try not to look like your making a supreme effort. Just arrange things so you happen to bump into her in the bar every so often.
Good luck man, its really tough I was bricking it. And dont worry about rejection either just go forth and find another if nothing happens

Hey thanks for sharing your experience. It's good to be able to relate to someone who was in a similar situation as myself.

The thing is though it's such a challenge to actually find an opportunity to talk to her at all, let alone have a conversation. As I said, when I did finally get her in situation I could say a few words to her she was off again within a few seconds. Her being a barmaid means she is always busy. If she happened to be a customer, then things would be a lot easier for me I'm sure.

The bar area seems to be the only place I would have a chance at making a conversation with her. Although I fear that if I was to go up to her at the same place again it might make me seem strange. I just really don't know what to do.

Getwellsoon

hey don't be so hard on yourself. I have been out with guys in the past that I've not initially thought of as attractive, then when I've got to know them I've totally fallen for them! And I sincerely hope that people have gone out with me because of the kind of person I am, not just because they fancied me for my looks. We all know that good looks don't last forever, so finding someone who you get on with and who has similar values, makes you laugh and has a good personality is MUCH more important.

20 is so young. I know plenty of people who, at your age, never thought they'd find someone. Give it time!! I guarantee you will find someone when you're not worrying about yourself so much and aren't looking to find love. They will just turn up out of the blue, trust me.

For the moment work on being a little more confident in yourself. Dress nicely, look after your health, get a new haircut - you'd be amazed at what all that can do for your confidence! And if you look good and feel good in your skin, others will start to notice it too.

Good luck! x

tbh

Loner09 wrote: »

I thik I'd like to ask for her number as a means to 'get to know her better' as I've been thinking, and taking a slow approach is not going to work for me in this kind of setting. I'd be lucky to get in a few rushed words a week and it's going to take me nowhere. I just want to get it over with as I'm so stressed over this and I'm destroying myself mentally constantly thinking about how I came across the other night... I can't go through this every week. At the same time though I really don't want to blow it!! So can anyone tell me if they think this is at all likely to work (valid excuse to ask for her number as the busy atmosphere is impossible to converse in) or is it destined to fail?? I badly need peoples thoughts/experties as I'm sick of listening to my thoughts.. it's torture.

man, first of all, this is only important to you. I'm not saying that in a cruel way, I'm trying to help you gain perspective. You're thinking about it all the time, I promise you, she's not. So stop worrying about the impression you made and what not - do you remember some person you exchanged two sentences with six months ago? Of course not. Only you know you were trying to chat her up, to anyone else it looks like what it really was - meaningless small talk between two strangers.

Having said that, don't ask for her number. If she felt the same way about you as you do about her, she would have prolonged the situation. She was polite and pleasant - that's her job after all - but she didn't give you any signs to show you she was interested. That could be for any one of a thousand reasons, and 998 of them have nothing to do with you. Don't assume that it is - again, in the kindest possible way - the world doesn't revolve around you, and not everything that happens has an implication for you personally. That's a good thing as well as a bad thing, but here it has two meanings:

If she went out with you, it doesn't mean you're now a winner
If she turned you down, it doesn't mean you're now a loser.

You are who you are, who you've always been.

You're trying to force this situation man, and it's not going to happen. At worst, you're going to make her feel really uncomfortable.
With the greatest of respect, you're desperate - that's why you're thinking "It's this girl or nothing". You really have to have patience, if you keep going out and keep meeting new people, the law of averages alone suggests you'll meet lots of girls and will eventually meet someone it's much easier to talk to.

And it'll be much easier to talk to them because they'll want to talk to you as much as you want to talk to them.

You basically have a choice here mate, you can learn from this, you can work on your patience, and in the meantime, you play the long game.

You work on the aspects of your personality that you want to improve. That's hard man! It's really hard to put yourself out there and force yourself to talk to girls, but it's hard because you never do it. The more you do it, the easier it gets. The easier it gets, the more confidence you get. It's like anything - walking, riding a bike - anything.

So, you have a choice.
You can do the hard thing, or you can do the easy thing. The hard thing gives a reward you have to pay for in advance, the easy thing doesn't have a reward, but - as you are finding out - you still have to pay.

Let this one go tho man. No good can come from allowing this obsession develop.

tbh

also, just to say - and I hope this doesn't sound patronising -

You're 20. You really don't have to start worrying about this yet. Of course you are nervous and self-aware - you don't have any real life experiences yet It'd be like a 12 year old worrying about the leaving cert.

Real life isn't like school. In school, you're lumped in with people because of the choices your parents made. In adult life, you choose your own social groups, and they tend to be the ones who don't abuse you, you know?

It takes a while to learn that, and you will, but you'll just have to trust me. Maybe it'll take you three years to realise that it was the kids in school who were dicks, not you, and anyway, they were only kids. You'll start to trust people again, and let your guard down and eventually you'll have a solid bunch of friends, a lot more trust in humanity, and - best of all - you'll still only be 23.

So you can start working now, and be a 23 year old who's got a lot going for them, or you can hide away and be like you are now, only 23.

LegacyUser

Well done for finally getting to talk to this girl. When you chatted with her, she made conversation for the time you were together. Then she had to go do her job, delivering drinks, nothing personal. What did you expect her to do? Drop everything and stay chatting? She got on with what she's being paid for.

And dont take what she said about music personally either. She probably has a hundred short chats like that in the bar every night she works. Have you ever seen her stop and >talk< to anyone?

It's not the right time and you're not ready to ask for her number. What would you say to her on the phone? Next time, say something simple and something friendly. Do it a few nights in a row that you're there. Maybe ask when she's on a break? What she thought of her favourite groups new sond/CD/download?

Dont obsess so much. As someone else said here, dont make it such a huge deal.

LegacyUser

tbh,

Thanks for your honesty. Can't say it's what I wanted to hear, but I obviously don't want to make a fool out of myself by approaching her again if the signs say she's definately not interested. Maybe deep inside I already new that but was trying to keep some hope alive..

I don't think anything will ever change for me though.. I can't help but take this as just another rejection due to my looks..

I know and accept that looks aren't everything, but men with good looks have things so much easier and for a shy, awkward person like me, a good personality doesn't mean jack sh*t. If I could enter a place, sit down and be approached by women, I wouldn't have any trouble...

As I said before, and I accept, that I seem to only be attracted to good looking women.. I cannot help it. And me not being a good looking man, and being too socially awkward for personality to be an advantage.. well lets be honest, my chances of ever getting anywhere are slim to say the least..

All I have is a musical talent. That's the only thing that lifts me up sometimes when I'm feeling down about myself physically (of which I haven't even one good quality, literaly).. but tbh that's starting to change now and nothing seems to cheer me up anymore or make up for my low self esteem. I'd give up my musical talent for better looks in a heart beat. I want to experience what everybody else seems to have and take for granted.. I don't care about being better able to make friends and such due to my talent, or whatever other few advantages there are in it, all I care about (and want) is to be attractive to people I am attracted to. And I just can't see how that can ever happen. I'm sick of life.

Sorry for the very negetive post after all of you have done your best to make me feel better, but that's how I feel.

tbh

Loner09 wrote: »

Sorry for the very negetive post after all of you have done your best to make me feel better, but that's how I feel.

man, we all go through this. You're a musician - listen to "How Soon Is Now" by the smiths. "so you go and you stand on your own, and you leave on your own, and you go home, and you cry and you want to die" - it's not just you and Morriessy man! We all go through it and it sucks so we don't really talk about it, which means we all think, when it happens to us, that we're the only one.

Look. Let's say you're never going to get a girl. So what are you going to do about? Fill your life with other stuff. Get more into the music, start or join bands, take lessons, go to other gigs, get involved in the scene. Meet loads of new people, get used to talking to new people, your confidence will grow and things will get easier.

I also think that maybe you should go and have a chat with your doctor. I know it sounds weird, but just tell the doc what you've posted here and listen to their advice.

But remember - life won't be like this forever. These are growing pains. You have to go through this pain to learn the lessons that'll set you up forever. There will be other girls.

aish

Hi Loner09,
Ive just been reading through your thread and really feel for you. From what you have said, you dont seem to like yourself very much ( at all), how could you possibly feel confident approaching this girl when you feel that you are ugly- you must think that she will think this too and if she does- then there is obvious reason to be nervous of rejection. I could tell you that this girl has her own insecurities- she may think she has a big nose, smelly feet, spots, wrinkles, a ronnie... She may be dying for you to ask her out, but we dont know what she thinks.
The reality is that you need to believe in yourself, Others, in kindness, may to tell you what you should do and how you should think but the reality is that if you dont believe in yourself and change your thoughts through working on understanding the roots of these thoughts and working through them- then change wont happen.

At the moment, it seems as thought you have magnified this situation, it sounds so intense. I am not in anyway trying to be critical but what happens if let say- best outcome, this girl asks YOU out- will you suddenly think that you are handsome, interesting etc? Will everything change or will you still think that you have a big head and two dogdy teeth? ( I also have two bandy teeth, the rest are perfect too- however I look at it as 'cute' and endearing).

I am concerned by your last post when you said that you are 'sick of life' and really feel that you should contact your doctor, I feel that you may benifit from talking to a counsellor-it may help you gain some clarity about your real self( not introjects from some cruel kids from you childhood), counselling can also help you work on building relationships, being true to yourself and maybe most importantly having someone really listen to you without judgement. what have you got to lose?
I have no doubt that you are a handsome, talented and interesting young man- the challenge is for you to believe this.

I wish you the best.

LegacyUser

aish wrote: »

I am not in anyway trying to be critical but what happens if let say- best outcome, this girl asks YOU out- will you suddenly think that you are handsome, interesting etc?

I would have to say the answer is yes to that, as pathetic as that may seem. IF that actually happened it would be the best thing that had ever happened to me socially and I can safely say it would drastically change the way I thought of myself.

In relation to your and tbh's suggestion that I should see a doctor, I am in fact currently seeing a doctor who specializes in CBT (cognitive behavioural therapy) and have been seeing many different doctors for a large part of my life. So far I have seen no real benifit unfortunately. I guess I have it set in stone in my head that 'changing the way I view/think about myself' (as is always the doctors words) is just not going to happen and the only thing that would solve my problems is if I were to magically change physically, which is impossible of course.

I have always hated every physical aspect about myself (literally everything). My father was a very good looking man when he was younger (and even get's mistaken for being 10 years younger than he is now at 50) and my mother was as well. I just don't understand why/how I seemed to lose out in the looks department. I say I'm sick of life because I feel life is against me.

Getwellsoon

Well now, to be honest, if you are admittedly "only attracted to good looking women" then you are getting what you deserve. I was pretty supportive of you in my last post, but now you've admitted you aren't able to look at slightly less attractive women, then don't expect anyone to look at you. That's the way it is. Maybe you should lower your standards a little. And for your information, most conventionally beautiful women would probably be quite intimidating to go out with for a guy like you. Try going for a more average looking girl.

LegacyUser

Getwellsoon wrote: »

Well now, to be honest, if you are admittedly "only attracted to good looking women" then you are getting what you deserve. I was pretty supportive of you in my last post, but now you've admitted you aren't able to look at slightly less attractive women, then don't expect anyone to look at you. That's the way it is. Maybe you should lower your standards a little. And for your information, most conventionally beautiful women would probably be quite intimidating to go out with for a guy like you. Try going for a more average looking girl.

I agree, I'm a shallow person. I never tried to hide that fact and admitted my shallow standards in my opening post..

Getwellsoon

Loner09 wrote: »

I agree, I'm a shallow person. I never tried to hide that fact and admitted my shallow standards in my opening post..

oh well you shouldn't complain then!

tbh

Loner09 wrote: »

I agree, I'm a shallow person. I never tried to hide that fact and admitted my shallow standards in my opening post..

stop wallowing. Fix it.

LegacyUser

Getwellsoon wrote: »

oh well you shouldn't complain then!

Maybe you should read my posts. I'm complaining about my looks (and bad luck with my genes), not anybody elses, which I have a right to do.

And how many other men/women out there (particularly good looking individuals) would put looks first when choosing a potential partner? A huge amount, I witness it all the time. It's not just me so I don't see why I 'deserve' this.

You've done a good job rubbing it in and making me feel worse (which I thought was impossible at this stage). Thank you for that.

BobbyOLeary

And how many other men/women out there (particularly good looking individuals) would put looks first when choosing a potential partner?

Less than the amount who put confidence first. Nobody wants to go out with a person who doesn't believe in themselves, regardless of what they look like.

I'm not going to get on the bandwagon of "Oh OP, you're not ugly, you've got beauty on the inside....". You're ugly, get over it. I know loads of ugly guys who've scored little hotties. Why? They're confident outgoing guys.

Personally I'm a confident guy. I wasn't always, it took years of effort on my part of putting myself in new situations and working on things. I'm a reasonably attractive man but I can tell you right now that it's been my personality and confidence that's gotten me any snogs or lays over the years.

To echo Tbh, you have some problems, namely you're not good looking and you're lacking in confidence. You can't change your face but you CAN change your confidence. Do that, and you're golden.

troubleshooter

Loner09 wrote: »

Hi,

First of all some background. I'm a 20 year old guy (living at home) and I have never really had a girlfriend or been in any sort of sexual relationship ever in my life. I'm severely self-conscious and usually avoid social contact whatsoever unless necessary. I am a VERY anti-social person.

Past experiences (mainly during primary/secondary school) have no doubt contributed to my very low self esteem. Although tbh I have faced the facts now. I'm pretty sure I am not a very attractive guy at all.. Sometimes I'd go as far as calling myself ugly.. These feelings make me feel so lonely and leave me feeling hopeless.

I am a musician and the only thing I really do during the week that involves going out is performing in a local pub with a jam band. This happens once or twice a week.

Now there is this really good looking waitress there who I find incredibly attractive and I'd love to be able to talk to her but the thing is at this stage I have almost come to accept that having a girlfriend is just pretty much something that I am not capable of nor something I will ever get to experience. The women I am usually attracted to are who I would usually class as simply being out of my league. That justs seems to be the case in my eyes and I cannot help that I am attracted to these type of women.. In the past (now this would have been towards the end of secondary school) I suffered a lot of rejection and embarrassment after taking up the courage to ask girls out. It pretty much destroyed me socially as I have stated. So now everytime I see someone I am really attracted to I get overcome with deep depression due to me having to convince myself that no matter how much I might like to be with this woman it would never happen and attempting to interact would have only ended up scarring me even further.

Sorry I clearly waffled on there and have ended up slightly off topic but I just couldn't help getting my feelings out. Thanks for listening I guess and perhaps people who might be experiencing similar issues could relate/advise.

Get some inner confidence, take an intrest in yourself, gain some inner awarness via psychology/reading etc, carisma comes with confidence, take up a martial art...grow some balls, are you a man or a mouse ?

Heres how you get in someones head, syncronise.

sweep them off their feet, come on strong, appear to be their soulmate, mirror their values, intrests, bodylanguage, attitudes, taste, habbit and ambitions,be comforting and generous emotionally.

Talk calmly, develop a confident reassuring voive,change topics smoothly, not dis-joined,dont ask to many questions, relate to what they say and connect with it, lots of eye contact, triangle gaze them, gaze over their shoulder then into their eyes, when they say something you approve of reward them with touch, arm, shoulder etc, when they say something nice to you, award them with eye contact or touch, dont boast in any way, be modest and humble/innocent, dont talk materialism, it projects insecurity,use their name alot, finish on a postive. Put different aftershave on both wrists ask what they prefer in a flirty way, it creates a postive subconscious link to you.

Make them feel good when they are around you, your creating a peak experience, by the above, around you, it takes confidence and charisma, thats something you cant really manufacture. But most of all project INTEGRITY, its v important.

Let them do the talking, listern , boost their egos.

LegacyUser

I appreciate the advice troubleshooter. I will keep it in mind, and perhaps I will be able to use some of your tips when/if I ever develop confidence in myself in the future.

I look like a right grouch when I'm out (likely projecting my insecurities) and I'd say that puts women off more than my looks.

troubleshooter

Loner09 wrote: »

I appreciate the advice troubleshooter. I will keep it in mind, and perhaps I will be able to use some of your tips when/if I ever develop confidence in myself in the future.

I look like a right grouch when I'm out (likely projecting my insecurities) and I'd say that puts women off more than my looks.

Everyone has insecurities, you just have to work on being at one with them, there is no such thing as perfection. when your at one with your insecurities, then your at one with those around you.

Take a look at NLP its about learning to communicate with yourself and the outer world better and overcoming your "self limiting beliefs". You know that voice in your head that holds you back.

All great jouneys start with a first step.

LegacyUser

I have changed my look/physical appearence quite considerably now. Gradually but surely I have changed myself into someone completely different to what I am on the inside. I got the hair cut short (very short), and styled it a bit (in the past would have sworn against ever doing such a thing, or either for that matter!). I also wear less drab looking clothes now as well. I don't exactly look like a musician anymore and the look is not exactly me but I feel it's improved my confidence a bit.

I talked with the barmaid I like this week again. I know there is doubts wether she is actually interested or not, and I doubt it myself, but I don't see the harm in trying really.. I just had the urge to make contact with her again, hoping for some good signs. She witnessed me performing earlier in the night so that gave me a bit of confidence.

The talk was ridiculously brief this time as well, although it was more of a greeting I suppose. I was walking by her while she was talking to her co-worker and said hi (calling her by name). At first I thought she hadn't heard me, then she turned around and said 'oh hi!' in a tone I was quite surprised by as I took her for a shy person and she said it like she was familiar with me or something.. Didn't call me by name though, but she clearly recognised me. I think I might have then said how are you doing or something like that, not sure. I knew I wasn't going to be able to get into a conversation with her so I just quickly threw in 'busy night?' She replied saying it was 'very busy' after which she had to continue on with her job.

I'm glad that I did make the effort to talk to her again, and also glad that she doesn't seem freaked out by me. If I hadn't greeted her/said anything to her this week I would have felt awful, I'm sure.

Anyway despite what some have suggested here, I have decided I will ask her out, which I'll probably do next time I see her.

I don't expect this post to get approved as the thread probably seems like it's run it's course but just wanted to give a little update/share my thoughts..

And thanks again troubleshooter for your support.

BumbleB

Loner09 wrote: »

I talked with the barmaid I like this week again. I know there is doubts wether she is actually interested or not, and I doubt it myself, but I don't see the harm in trying really.

I'm glad that I did make the effort to talk to her again, and also glad that she doesn't seem freaked out by me.

Anyway despite what some have suggested here, I have decided I will ask her out, which I'll probably do next time I see her.

The change of look is good ,sometimes you will notice stars will often dress and behave like stars long before they are successful.The whole key is not in the clothes its the way they are put together.

All your interactions with women should be from a positive frame of mind such as I like you and you like me, thats the kind of attitude you need.

Also keep talking to the girl and don't ask her out until you are more familiar with her ,You have to build comfort with a girl before you can progress further.When you have reached this stage then you can ask questions which can gauge whether she is seeing someone like where do you like to go clubbing ?.

Anyhow if it doesn't work out you have gained a wealth of experience which you can bring to your next encounter.Whatever you do don't freak her out . good luck and take it slow !:)

LegacyUser

Thanks for the encouraging words BumbleB.

Yeah I agree, taking it slow would be better, but I'm only there once a week I can only get in a few words. I haven't been able to get into a discussion/conversation and I don't think that'll ever be possible while she's working. I just thought the logical thing would be to ask her out in order to actually have a conversation outside the awkward, busy setting. Anyway I'll probably try to talk to her for longer next time and try and gauge it from there.