Anglo tells investigators "No dice"

dresden8

And the Director of Corporate enforcement agrees with them.

What kind of sick joke is this?

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16550527/

Bosses at the now-nationalised bank insisted some should remain under wraps and after seven months of negotiations a deal was reached that allowed certain records to be kept secret.

Mr Appleby's office insisted they would not be hamstrung without the "small amount" of material, which relates specifically to the key areas being investigated.

"I don't think we feel handicapped, it's a small element of the overall volume," said a spokesman.

Are these guys allergic to search warrants and arrests?

Appleby has to go. Lenihan has to go and the whole board of Anglo has to go, especially "our" representative Dukes.

Edit: In my rage I mis-spelt Anglo in the title, can a mod fix please?

tech77

dresden8 wrote: »

And the Director of Corporate enforcement agrees with them.

What kind of sick joke is this?

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16550527/



Are these guys allergic to search warrants and arrests?

Appleby has to go. Lenihan has to go and the whole board of Anglo has to go, especially "our" representative Dukes.

Edit: In my rage I mis-spelt Anglo in the title, can a mod fix please?

FWIW just heard on the news there that Seanie Fitz is defaulting on more than 100 million.
Incredible.

Fulton Crown

Steady on boys...steady on there..this is complicated stuff..remember the old saying "the wheels of justice grind slow but exceedingly small" or something to that effect.

We are only at the early stages of this now..there is a long way to go.

All the signals are that these tossers will have to pay up..even the sh1t stupid politicos know the public won't stand for anything else.

Gormeley came out fairly strong on the subject today...big dependance on the media to keep the heat on people like Greystones man, Mayo Man, Ailesbury Road Man , Naas man and the various other "Tent" men.
If nothin happend or nobody is in the chokey this time twelve months ..we'll know that the nod and wink boys have stuffed us once again.

The Naas mans Audi deal is small beer but will be a good barometer of what is to come.

John Q Taxpayer and his childrens children will be paying for these tossers for years to come.

hallelujajordan

dresden8 wrote: »

And the Director of Corporate enforcement agrees with them.

What kind of sick joke is this?

http://news.eircom.net/breakingnews/16550527/



Are these guys allergic to search warrants and arrests?

Appleby has to go. Lenihan has to go and the whole board of Anglo has to go, especially "our" representative Dukes.

Edit: In my rage I mis-spelt Anglo in the title, can a mod fix please?

Relax man . . . . the worst thing that could happen now is that someone breaks the rules and the whole thing falls apart on legal technicalities. They are entitled to due process so let them have it. .

BTW Calling for Lenihan to go on this is a little bit of an overreaction, No ?

dresden8

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Relax man . . . . the worst thing that could happen now is that someone breaks the rules and the whole thing falls apart on legal technicalities. They are entitled to due process so let them have it. .

BTW Calling for Lenihan to go on this is a little bit of an overreaction, No ?

The Director of corporate enforcement is carrying out an investigation into the bank that is bringing down this country. The bank tells him to feck off, he can't see all the files, and he agrees?

You don't see a problem there?

No wonder this country is fncked.

Fulton Crown

dresden8 wrote: »

The Director of corporate enforcement is carrying out an investigation into the bank that is bringing down this country. The bank tells him to feck off, he can't see all the files, and he agrees?

You don't see a problem there?

No wonder this country is fncked.

Shades of grey pal....theres always grey.

The bank didn't tell him to feck orf..thay had a discussion and there are complicated legals around some of the files which are not vital to the investigation but could hold it up unduly.

They are parked for the moment ..but the investigation is continuing.

Think of the media though pal...why is there such a fat cat squabble around the Indo Group just now ?

Interesting don't you think given the vital role the media has in keeping the hot poker up these tossers orifi.

Biggins

At this stage its just another screw-up to add to the list of many screw-up this state is letting others get away with.

Nothing surprises me any more.
...and the wasters in the Dail wonder why they are losing support, wondering why they are hated and wondering why someone actually took to firebombing a government office building!

This stuff thats coming out is just the tip of the iceberg and folk are SERIOUSLY getting pissed off.
Time is running out for the politicians to get their act together and they just can't see that.

AlekSmart

Steady on boys...steady on there..this is complicated stuff..remember the old saying "the wheels of justice grind slow but exceedingly small" or something to that effect.

We are only at the early stages of this now..there is a long way to go.

All the signals are that these tossers will have to pay up..even the sh1t stupid politicos know the public won't stand for anything else.

Yes perhaps such a level of confidence in Irish Law is not quite as solid as it should be....one only needs to look at the manner in which the Zoe/Shipsey alliance has reduced BOTH of the Irish Superior Courts to the status of irrelevant co-conspiritors in a con-job designed to ensure the survival of a seriously insolvent corporate entity.

Make no mistake those "Sh1t Stupid Politicos" know EXACTLY what the Public are prepared to stand for and that knowledge allows them quite a bit more stunting yet before having to worry about that Lamp Standard outside the gate........ :mad:

Fulton Crown

AlekSmart wrote: »

Yes perhaps such a level of confidence in Irish Law is not quite as solid as it should be....one only needs to look at the manner in which the Zoe/Shipsey alliance has reduced BOTH of the Irish Superior Courts to the status of irrelevant co-conspiritors in a con-job designed to ensure the survival of a seriously insolvent corporate entity.

Make no mistake those "Sh1t Stupid Politicos" know EXACTLY what the Public are prepared to stand for and that knowledge allows them quite a bit more stunting yet before having to worry about that Lamp Standard outside the gate........ :mad:

How so my learned friend ?

Ensuretheir survival ?? Now thats interesting..can you fill me in on how their survival is ensured ?

Agree somewhat about the politicos though....South kerry man and the daughter of Three Houses man will probably keep getting elected

Not to mention Gun Runner man.....::(:(

dresden8

How can the Director of Corporate enforcement carry out an investigation into possibly corrupt/improper/illegal dealing within the bank when he doesn't know what's going on?

What's Anglo saying about those files, "I swear, they're the honest ones"

It will be interesting in 10 years time when the names attached to those "sensitive" files are released.

Why is Lenihan obstructing this investigation? After all, he is Mr. Anglo now.

Who is he protecting?

Pal.

Liam Byrne

This is the same bank that let Lenihan agree to bail them out before they came clean on how badly they were in the **** with illegal lending and lies ?

Their opinion shouldn't matter a damn at this stage! :mad: :mad: :mad:

Who the **** are Fianna Failure trying to look after ?

If they don't get their act together I'm going to have a tonne of manure waiting in place over the doorstep for when these ****ers come knocking in a month or so's time when the inevitable General Election is called.

At this stage it's beyond a joke; and the ONLY explanation that I can come up with is that FF are DELIBERATELY bolloxing everything they can up in order to be kicked out so that they don't have to work to clean up their mess.

I know that's far-fetched, but surely NO-ONE is that far out of touch with reality as these pricks seem to be ?

Biggins

Liam Byrne wrote: »

...I know that's far-fetched, but surely NO-ONE is that far out of touch with reality as these pricks seem to be ?

True, after all Bertie himself has yet to sort out his tax clearance certificate and yet he's still a sitting TD representing the country and as such advocating what ever FF policies related to tax, they wish to push on the rest of us!

Seriously, you couldn't make this crap up if you wanted to!
Madness!

Martyr

they should be lined up against a wall and shot for what they're doin to this country.

Seth Brundle

Martyr wrote: »

they should be lined up against a wall and shot for what they're doin to this country.

I don't know if most folk would agree with the idea of shooting them.


It would be too quick with no suffering!

Fulton Crown

How can the Director of Corporate enforcement carry out an investigation into possibly corrupt/improper/illegal dealing within the bank when he doesn't know what's going on?

Look pal ..he has enough information to go ahead with for the moment / the Garda fraud squad are in there too remember ?

Why is Lenihan obstructing this investigation? After all, he is Mr. Anglo now.

Hardly obstructing it friend surely...if ever I need a sweeping statement I'll give you a call !

Who is he protecting?

Look pal he is protecting nobody.....someone is watching a bit too much TV methinks.....

peasant

Fulton Crown

how about instead of name dropping and calling everyone your "pal" you explain to us upset mere mortals how exactly it is considered normal legal procedure to keep files under wrap when there is an invetigation going on?

Fulton Crown

peasant wrote: »

Fulton Crown

how about instead of name dropping and calling everyone your "pal" you explain to us upset mere mortals how exactly it is considered normal legal procedure to keep files under wrap when there is an invetigation going on?

Apologies moderator..did not mean to offend.

I suppose the point I was trying to make is that I think the whole "files under wraps" issue is a ploy by Anglo to tie up the investigation into legal cul-de-sacs.

I am pleased that Appleby appears not to have bought this and is pressing ahead with the probe in tandem with the Gardai.

The legals in this a re complex and care has to be taken.....uh ...OK ?

hallelujajordan

dresden8 wrote: »

The Director of corporate enforcement is carrying out an investigation into the bank that is bringing down this country. The bank tells him to feck off, he can't see all the files, and he agrees?

You don't see a problem there?

No wonder this country is fncked.

That's not quite how i understood it . . He has agreed to park it for now so that they can challenge the legal privilege of the files in court. It would be far worse if subsequent cases got turfed on a technicality because the bank had not been given that opportunity.

Some of the conspiracy theories going around here are just ludicrous. The wheels of justice move slowly in this country but they will move.

Liam Byrne wrote:

At this stage it's beyond a joke; and the ONLY explanation that I can come up with is that FF are DELIBERATELY bolloxing everything they can up in order to be kicked out so that they don't have to work to clean up their mess.

Thats just beyond stupid . . If FF wanted out of government they would have called a GE long ago. . You might not agree with Lenihan's tactics but there are plenty of economists who do . . . I personally have no doubt that he is doing what he believes is the right thing to sort out the economic situation.

Fulton Crown

hallelujajordan wrote: »

That's not quite how i understood it . . He has agreed to park it for now so that they can challenge the legal privilege of the files in court. It would be far worse if subsequent cases got turfed on a technicality because the bank had not been given that opportunity.

Some of the conspiracy theories going around here are just ludicrous. The wheels of justice move slowly in this country but they will move.



Thats just beyond stupid . . If FF wanted out of government they would have called a GE long ago. . You might not agree with Lenihan's tactics but there are plenty of economists who do . . . I personally have no doubt that he is doing what he believes is the right thing to sort out the economic situation.

Good post Hal...'zactly what I was trying to say..I really get pissed by these conspiracy theorists...Jezuz Lenihan could make far more moolah at the bar and not have to take half the sh1t.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

I personally have no doubt that he is doing what he believes is the right thing to sort out the economic situation.

And I know of people in America who believe they've been abducted by aliens.....so what's your point ?

I know people who have convinced themselves that their partner is cheating, and they've believed it, but they've been wrong; the guys who flew planes into the Twin Towers believed what they were doing - does that make them right ?

And since when does "doing what you believe is right" involve NOT READING ****ING REPORTS ABOUT DODGY BANKS before you invest billions in the same banks ?

Because if that's what's "RIGHT", then Lenihan is 100% right. :rolleyes:

GSF

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Steady on boys...steady on there..this is complicated stuff..remember the old saying "the wheels of justice grind slow but exceedingly small" or something to that effect.

We are only at the early stages of this now..there is a long way to go.

All the signals are that these tossers will have to pay up..even the sh1t stupid politicos know the public won't stand for anything else.

Gormeley came out fairly strong on the subject today...big dependance on the media to keep the heat on people like Greystones man, Mayo Man, Ailesbury Road Man , Naas man and the various other "Tent" men.
If nothin happend or nobody is in the chokey this time twelve months ..we'll know that the nod and wink boys have stuffed us once again.

The Naas mans Audi deal is small beer but will be a good barometer of what is to come.

John Q Taxpayer and his childrens children will be paying for these tossers for years to come.

Given a choice between believing with my own eyes and believing in politicians words, I know which one I would trust and it isn't Gormless's words. :mad:

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

And I know of people in America who believe they've been abducted by aliens.....so what's your point ?

I know people who have convinced themselves that their partner is cheating, and they've believed it, but they've been wrong; the guys who flew planes into the Twin Towers believed what they were doing - does that make them right ?

And since when does "doing what you believe is right" involve NOT READING ****ING REPORTS ABOUT DODGY BANKS before you invest billions in the same banks ?

Because if that's what's "RIGHT", then Lenihan is 100% right. :rolleyes:

The point is that you accuse him and FF of something entirely different. You accuse both Lenihan and FF of being involved in some sort of self-interested conspiracy which is just a nonsense. You can question the sense of his actions and you can accuse him of not being capable . . (personally I think he is one of the most capable politicians in Dail Eireann) . . but I think it is wrong to question the integrity of his actions.

As has been noted already, the man could be making a fortune, working less at the Bar..

maxwell smart

I'm warming to Lenihan. He "appears" to be trying to take some hard decisions but looks like he's running into some objections from the Cowen/Coughlan supporters.
I also think he tried to face down the civil service, but most of the cabinet bottled it.
In my opinion he's the only minister coming out of this with anything approaching respect.

dresden8

hallelujajordan wrote: »

You accuse both Lenihan and FF of being involved in some sort of self-interested conspiracy which is just a nonsense.

No, seriously, where have you been for the last ten years?

AlekSmart

A Fulton Crown,me oul segotia...will ye gerrowa dah gardin...Bud....:P

How so my learned friend ?

Ensure their survival ?? Now thats interesting..can you fill me in on how their survival is ensured ?

Just to ensure you don`t get TOO elevated an impression of me...I left school at 15 havin just managed to secure an Intermediate Certificate so most of my "learning" came from the period 1963 to 1973.

My views on the Zoe/ACC case is purely that of an uneducated cynic and I do not for a moment expect somebody as well informed as your good self to defer to my opinion at all.

The ongoing tableau in the High/Supreme Courts has already diluted the strength of any subsequent Judgements from those benches IN THE EYES OF THE "ORDINARY" PUNTER.

What perhaps caught most Ordinary Mortals attention was the surprising lack of Legalese in the original Kelly judgement and the subsequent Clark finding supported by the 1st Supreme`s.

However,perhaps the unadorned clarity of those judgements coupled with the manner in which the Judges took the utmost pains to keep them simple was wasted on the likes of Mr Cush or Mr Shipsey,used,as they are to reams of deeply intricate arcane phraseology most of which can be as ambigious as one requires.

I was VERY taken with the Open Court admonishment from Judge Clarkes bench regarding the background and content of the "figures" as presented to the court by Mr Shipsey.

In other times I would have thought such a stinging rebuke from a High Court Judge would have reveberated like the peal of Big Ben,however in the addled times we now find ourselves,it seems that the Judges words only served to spur Mr Shipsey and his team onto greater flights of fancy.....all the more articulate when one considers the Zoe legal tab may well end up being covered by the Public Purse anyway.

To read of the Zoe team referring to themselves as being totally focused on the Greater Public Interest simply made me want to reach for my Pistol,or perhaps a sickbag.

Put simply,If the ACC had succeeded in their initial application then the entire Zoe house of cards would have fallen and with it prospect of a never ending stream of frivolous oul nonsense masquerading as "supporting evidence".

Therefore I`m suggesting that the ongoing pantomine is largely intended to keep this Zoe crock on the road rather than in the crusher where it belongs.

Even the rapier like thrust of Judge Clarke`s (I think) point regarding the Zoe peoples projected sales appears to have been disregarded.

The Zoe`s are confident of selling 300+ units before Dec 31 2009.....at least that constitutes a significant part of the survival plan.....pity the dour oul Judge had to enquire as to how this would be achieved as the group had only managed to flog 30+ units in the more favourable environment prevailing to Dec 2008.....:rolleyes:

Ah wudja givvus a break Judge...are you not familiar with the principles of NAMA..? The Medium Term....Long Term.....any term EXCEPT the present ....

The more I look at this the more scared I become...why is it the more Protestant societies are dealing with the entire recession thing whilst the Catholic leaning countries,Ourselves,Spain,Italy,for example appear to require some more statues to move and leave brown envelopes at our doors ?

In the meantime I`m forced to put my trust in "capable politicians" like Minister Lenihan whilst wondering what form an "incapable" Irish Polititian would take !! :eek:

amacca

AlekSmart wrote: »

To read of the Zoe team referring to themselves as being totally focused on the Greater Public Interest simply made me want to reach for my Pistol,or perhaps a sickbag.

Pistol, definitely pistol. and then bodybag.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

Why in the name of **** are they being protected? Why are they not getting the full whack? They are allowed for somethings to be kept secret? I wonder if I could keep some incriminating evidence secret if I conducted an armed robbery at my local branch. Same thing if you ask me. Bankers were once respected members of society, now they are nothing more than the base scum on the ground...

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

personally I think he is one of the most capable politicians in Dail Eireann)

See the part of my previous post that you chose to ignore; do you seriously think that being "capable" includes investing fortunes of OUR MONEY in a bank without reading the ****ing report that showed the amount of dodgy and illegal activities that were going on ?

hallelujajordan wrote: »

. . but I think it is wrong to question the integrity of his actions.

And I think it's wrong to screw people working hard and barely making ends meet while paying fortunes in golden handshakes and pensions to the bankers and FAS leaders and Ceann Comhairle and everyone else who milked and screwed us and ran us into the ground and ensuring that investors in banks get their money back and call the shots while the rest of us get shafted (including the same banks that - without OUR money - would be worth ZERO increasing their rates so that the people who are already paying to bail them out end up paying even more)

And yet you support the activities that I think are wrong, and then claim that Lenihan has "integrity" ?

You can think whatever you like is "wrong", but if you answer the above questions and still claim that Lenihan has "integrity", then you're not going to be in a position to change my mind on what's "right and wrong".

Fulton Crown

Just to ensure you don`t get TOO elevated an impression of me...I left school at 15 havin just managed to secure an Intermediate Certificate so most of my "learning" came from the period 1963 to 1973.

Thank you for sharing that

My views on the Zoe/ACC case is purely that of an uneducated cynic and I do not for a moment expect somebody as well informed as your good self to defer to my opinion at all.

Nice line in sarcasm Bud

Put simply,If the ACC had succeeded in their initial application then the entire Zoe house of cards would have fallen and with it prospect of a never ending stream of frivolous oul nonsense masquerading as "supporting evidence".

So glad you put it "simply"

Therefore I`m suggesting that the ongoing pantomine is largely intended to keep this Zoe crock on the road rather than in the crusher where it belongs

.

Is everybody colluding then Judges and all ?

The Zoe`s are confident of selling 300+ units before Dec 31 2009.....at least that constitutes a significant part of the survival plan.....pity the dour oul Judge had to enquire as to how this would be achieved as the group had only managed to flog 30+ units in the more favourable environment prevailing to Dec 2008.....:rolleyes

:

Good point Buddy..

The more I look at this the more scared I become...why is it the more Protestant societies are dealing with the entire recession thing whilst the Catholic leaning countries,Ourselves,Spain,Italy,for example appear to require some more statues to move and leave brown envelopes at our doors ?

Gone right over my head this one

Now! I ask again how does it ENSURE the survival of ZOE ?

asdasd

The bank didn't tell him to feck orf..thay had a discussion and there are complicated legals around some of the files which are not vital to the investigation but could hold it up unduly.

Right then lets call in the shareholders, us, and ask us, or our board whether we want to release our files to ourselves.

I'd say we will.

asdasd

if by the way that is not the legal situation at the moment - the board of Anglo does not seem to be controlled by the Irish taxpayer, I say we fix that toute suite by removing from the board people we dont like. Keep Dukes. I rate Dukes for past services to the State. Then the board will do what we want.

InReality

That's a very good point.

Who is deciding that these files are privileged ?

If the government is the only shareholder in the bank , and the role of the board of the bank is to act in the best interests of its shareholders...

Then can the government not direct the board to wave any privilege attaching to these files ?

Liam Byrne

InReality wrote: »

That's a very good point.

Who is deciding that these files are privileged ?

If the government is the only shareholder in the bank , and the role of the board of the bank is to act in the best interests of its shareholders...

Then can the government not direct the board to wave any privilege attaching to these files ?

You can forget that, for a start; when Aer Lingus shafted Shannon the same Government refused point blank to act on their shareholding and do what was in the country's interest, citing the excuse of "commercial interference"; it's a bit like the "commercial sensitivity" of the NAMA ****ed-up valuations, and it seems that any phrase like that is the equivalent of diplomatic immunity when it comes to doing anything that's actually in the interests of the Irish people.

AlekSmart

Is everybody colluding then Judges and all ?

Now! I ask again how does it ENSURE the survival of ZOE ?

Sheeesh Fulton a chrói,but on mature reflection I see that you are indeed correct......you must be.

It is inconcievable that "everybody" including most (Not ALL however) Judges could be colluding in dodgy practice simply to keep high rolling developers and their legal teams in business.

I fully concede that the ongoing programme of events scheduled for the Supreme Courts next season is geared towards ensuring that Zoe developments is a leaner and fitter entity,better placed to take advantage of the rapidly changing property development market post NAMA.

The Supreme`s themselves have taken the decidely odd step of announcing to the waiting world that their gig diary is being squeezed tightly due to the constant curtain-calls of Bill and the Zoe`s as they seek to bask in the reflected glory of their NOW! 2000 platinum CD.

One Example of this,I suppose,is the somewhat extended wait for the Pamela Izevbekhai asylum-perjury-mistaken identity case to be re-adjudicated upon.

I would have thought,given Mr Shipsey`s affilliations with and knowledge of the Asylum Legal referral process he more than most would be seeking to ensure a speedy delivery of good sound Supreme Court Judgement ?

Oh well.....one must (again) assume that them oul busted-flush developers are better payers than the Refugee Legal Aid Service ...???

But I digress...and concede that it must be only my befuddled mind seeing shadows where there be only blinding white light. :pac:

Liam Byrne

It doesn't take collusion; all it takes is stalling and obstructing until the problem goes away and people get sick of asking the required questions; and if FF's buddies were taking notes from our previous Taoiseach, they'll be well-versed in how to achieve that!

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

See the part of my previous post that you chose to ignore; do you seriously think that being "capable" includes investing fortunes of OUR MONEY in a bank without reading the ****ing report that showed the amount of dodgy and illegal activities that were going on ?

Yes I do, Brian Cowen took a huge amount of flak for not reading the Lisbon Treaty, most of which came from people who had not read the Lisbon Treaty. This is the same situation; The point is, I dont expect Lenihan to read every report that is presented to him . . we pay civil servants to do that for him. Regardless of what he did or didnt read, there are many economists who believe that recapitalising the banks (including Anglo) was the right thing to do at the time so it really is irrelevant whether or not he read the report.

And I think it's wrong to screw people working hard and barely making ends meet while paying fortunes in golden handshakes and pensions to the bankers and FAS leaders and Ceann Comhairle and everyone else who milked and screwed us and ran us into the ground and ensuring that investors in banks get their money back and call the shots while the rest of us get shafted (including the same banks that - without OUR money - would be worth ZERO increasing their rates so that the people who are already paying to bail them out end up paying even more)

And yet you support the activities that I think are wrong, and then claim that Lenihan has "integrity" ?

You can think whatever you like is "wrong", but if you answer the above questions and still claim that Lenihan has "integrity", then you're not going to be in a position to change my mind on what's "right and wrong".

Lenihan inherited a situation that was not of his or the previous governments making. I genuinely do not believe he is motivated by anything other than a desire to correct that situation (whether or not you agree with his strategy !!)

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Lenihan inherited a situation that was not of his or the previous governments making.

You're joking, right ? Bertie as Minister for Finance, the same Bertie appointing "his friends" to high positions such as Financial Regulator, only to find that those friends weren't doing their jobs ?

Bertie's previous Minister for Finance now our Taoiseach ?

Bertie's dodgy finances causing the government to take their eye off the ball ?

Bertie and his government telling those who warned them about the oncoming train that he wondered why they didn't commit suicide ?

Despite Fianna Fail's lies, the global downturn is NOT the cause of the severity of our woes. It definitely accelerated it, and made it worse, but the reason we're in the **** is precisely BECAUSE the previous government ran with it and stoked the fire.

Fulton Crown

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You can forget that, for a start; when Aer Lingus shafted Shannon the same Government refused point blank to act on their shareholding and do what was in the country's interest, citing the excuse of "commercial interference"; it's a bit like the "commercial sensitivity" of the NAMA ****ed-up valuations, and it seems that any phrase like that is the equivalent of diplomatic immunity when it comes to doing anything that's actually in the interests of the Irish people.

What's this about Aer Lingus "shafting" Shannon ?

Look pal Aer Lingus is a PLC and all PLC's are driven by the bottom line..they have to be.

Simple facts.. The Snn / LHr rout was under performing..Aer Lingus management were no longer prepared to support it.

They pulled out....commercial decision ..end of story !

What you want..the shareholders subsidising the rout ?

Get Real :eek:

hallelujajordan

Liam Byrne wrote: »

You're joking, right ? Bertie as Minister for Finance, the same Bertie appointing "his friends" to high positions such as Financial Regulator, only to find that those friends weren't doing their jobs ?

Bertie's previous Minister for Finance now our Taoiseach ?

Bertie's dodgy finances causing the government to take their eye off the ball ?

Bertie and his government telling those who warned them about the oncoming train that he wondered why they didn't commit suicide ?

Despite Fianna Fail's lies, the global downturn is NOT the cause of the severity of our woes. It definitely accelerated it, and made it worse, but the reason we're in the **** is precisely BECAUSE the previous government ran with it and stoked the fire.

Not joking at all . .

We are in the situation we are in today because we as a nation got caught up in a cycle of greedy consumerism over the past decade. The government are an easy target and it is really easy for us to take the moral high ground and throw sh*t like we all saw it coming, but maybe we should start to look to ourselves for the answer.

Remember . . . We returned FF to government for 12 years because we were making money out of it. We got greedy. . . McCreevy and later Cowen were lowering our taxes and even giving us free money in the SSIA's. We loved it and wanted more and more and more. Newer cars (that we could hardly afford); Bigger houses (on 100%+ credit) with mortgages that were always going to become crippling in the longer terms. . WE inflated the bubble, not Brian Cowen or Brian Lenihan and WE are going to have to put our shoulder to the wheel and drive the recovery.

WE stoked the fire.

dresden8

hallelujajordan wrote: »

we as a nation got caught up in a cycle of greedy consumerism over the past decade.

This is a lie.

We didn't, you might have, but I didn't, luckily enough I get to pick up the tab anyway.

Joy of freaking joys.

And what's that got to do with Anglo hiding the files?

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Not joking at all . .

We are in the situation we are in today because we as a nation got caught up in a cycle of greedy consumerism over the past decade. The government are an easy target and it is really easy for us to take the moral high ground and throw sh*t like we all saw it coming, but maybe we should start to look to ourselves for the answer.

INCORRECT, for a start. Many of us did nothing of the sort, and many of us saw it coming.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Remember . . . We returned FF to government for 12 years because we were making money out of it.

INCORRECT AGAIN. Many of us didn't fall for the crap, or overlook the corruption and waste.

hallelujajordan wrote: »

McCreevy and later Cowen were lowering our taxes and even giving us free money in the SSIA's.

:
:

WE inflated the bubble, not Brian Cowen or Brian Lenihan

You don't do irony, do you ? :rolleyes:

Liam Byrne

Fulton Crown wrote: »

Look pal Aer Lingus is a PLC and all PLC's are driven by the bottom line..they have to be.

Simple facts.. The Snn / LHr rout was under performing..Aer Lingus management were no longer prepared to support it.

They pulled out....commercial decision ..end of story !

What you want..the shareholders subsidising the rout ?

Get Real :eek:

Firstly, ditch the condescending "pal" and "get real". It's pathetic and makes me value your contribution even less, if that's possible. By all means, state your case and facts and opinions, but lose that pathetic and counter-productive bull****.

PLCs support the aims of their shareholders and FF - supposedly - kept a shareholding in order to ensure that they had a vote that would prevent Aer Lingus from doing anything to the detriment of the country.

But when it came to the crunch, they bottled it (or secretly sold out, depending on what you read elsewhere).

And "underperforming" in comparison to what, exactly ? A route that they had serious competition on and that they failed to expand as a result ?

hallelujajordan

dresden8 wrote: »

This is a lie.

We didn't, you might have, but I didn't, luckily enough I get to pick up the tab anyway.

Joy of freaking joys.

And what's that got to do with Anglo hiding the files?

Look, lets nail this idea of Anglo hiding the files and the government supporting them to . . its just not true.

I want all of the Anglo files to be disclosed, I want a full and detailed investigation and if individuals are found to have broken the law I want them to go to prison.

But . . . that will only happen if the Bank, and all those associated with it are allowed due process and if the wheels of justice are allowed to move at the right pace (even though that is damned frustrating for the observers).

We still live in a society where innocence is assumed until proven otherwise and it is appropriate that we give the anglo bosses that right.

Liam Byrne wrote:

INCORRECT, for a start. Many of us did nothing of the sort, and many of us saw it coming.

INCORRECT AGAIN. Many of us didn't fall for the crap, or overlook the corruption and waste.

Well maybe you didn't but we as a nation did. . . The banks would not have been able to give out 100% mortgages if there wasn't a demand for them . . The country went nuts from the top down. . . I bought my house six years ago and paid way over the odds for it. . within two years it had doubled in value and I was on the pigs back. At the same time I couldn't get a plumber / electrician / carpernter in to do a bit of work cos' they were picking their jobs, charging way over the odds and driving around in their 5 Series BMW's . .

Look, the country went nuts. . maybe you didn't and if so fair play but its relatively easy to use the anonymity of the internet to claim that you didn't and that you saw it all coming. . .

I am willing to put my hand up and accept that my responsibility for where we are now . . .

asdasd

But . . . that will only happen if the Bank, and all those associated with it are allowed *due process* and if the wheels of justice are allowed to move at the right pace (even though that is damned frustrating for the observers).

Why cant that due process involve getting any and all files we need from Anglo?

dresden8

hallelujajordan wrote: »

due process .

The bankd stonewalled for 7 months

Bosses at the now-nationalised bank insisted some should remain under wraps and after seven months of negotiations a deal was reached that allowed certain records to be kept secret.

7 freaking months the investigators (and I use that word very advisedly) allowed themselve to be stonewalled by the bank.

Carroll has gotten himself into the high court and the supreme court how many times in the last couple of months?

Amazing what you can do when the will is there.

Obviously the will is not there.

Appleby has to go.

asdasd

maybe you didn't and if so fair play but its relatively easy to use the anonymity of the internet to claim that you didn't and that you saw it all coming. . .

We are pseudonomous , not annoymous. So we can verify that people here who say they didnt go mad, or believed the hype, or not, if they talked about it on the various property threads.

Liam Byrne

asdasd wrote: »

Why cant that due process involve getting any and all files we need from Anglo?

.....and besides, don't we own the files at this stage ?

Why are the board that flushed Anglo down the sewer (and caught us in the whirlpool) even still in the picture ?

dresden8

hallelujajordan wrote: »

maybe you didn't and if so fair play but its relatively easy to use the anonymity of the internet to claim that you didn't and that you saw it all coming. . .

You make it sound as if that sentiment is made up.

I'd like to remind you of the statement that will hound Bertie Ahern to his grave

Mr Ahern had been speaking about people who talk down the economy during his speech to the Irish Congress of Trade Unions conference (watch his complete speech here).

'Sitting on the sidelines, cribbing and moaning is a lost opportunity. I don't know how people who engage in that don't commit suicide because frankly the only thing that motivates me is being able to actively change something,' he said.

http://www.rte.ie/news/2007/0704/economy.html

Plenty of people knew what was coming down the line.

NewDubliner

Liam Byrne wrote: »

Why are the board that flushed Anglo down the sewer (and caught us in the whirlpool) even still in the picture ?

1: They know where the bodies are buried. 2: FF looks after its friends. 3: They're now part of the public service.

dresden8

NewDubliner wrote: »

1: They know where the bodies are buried. 2: FF looks after its friends. 3: They're now part of the public service.

Hey, leave the public service out of it.

There's too many FF cronies in there already who never had to go through the commission and qualify for our jobs.

One of the biggest changes FF ever made was to bypass the commission. That's where the real jobs for the boys will come from in the future.

Liam Byrne

hallelujajordan wrote: »

Look, the country went nuts. . maybe you didn't and if so fair play but its relatively easy to use the anonymity of the internet to claim that you didn't and that you saw it all coming. . .

Firstly, there's no "maybe" about it. I did (see it coming) and I didn't (go nuts).

Secondly, you're really shooting yourself in the foot with this irony lark :rolleyes:, considering you quoted MY post and then went on about anonymity.

Just in case you missed it, here's a hint (it's in bold at the top with an arrow beside it, just as it was in the post that you quoted) :

Liam Byrne wrote: »

.....

So while I accept that pseudonyms and usernames are within board rules, and that you're entitled to post any opinion that you like under your username, DO NOT come on here under a name like "hallelujajordan" and accuse me of using a cloak of "anonymity" as a cop-out. Sheesh! :rolleyes: