Is there a reluctance to add weight to pullups/chinups?

BrianD3

I just thought of this when reading the exercises you dislike thread. Pullups/chinups are known as a good exercise but my perception (I could be wrong) is that people rarely add heavy weights and do low reps with them. They tend to do moderate to high reps with bodyweight only or small added weights and talk about how many reps they did.

Is the lack of heavy pullups due to the weight limitations of doorway chinning bars. Is it because it is seen as an assistance exercise for comp lifts and not as a Big Lift. Or is it engrained in people's minds that it is a bodyweight resistance exercise whereas barbell exercises are progressive resistance

IMO, the weighted pullup is one of the best exercises for back width and general strength, it is non technical, needs no spotter and is one of the safest exercises to go heavy or to failure with.

Check out Extremistpullup on youtube
http://www.youtube.com/user/ExtremistPullup

Magic Eight Ball

BrianD3 wrote: »

people rarely add heavy weights and do low reps with them.[/url]

I do this all the time within my program and also see other people regularly doing the same.

BossArky

Most people won't have a dip belt or similar to hook weights onto. Holding a dumbbell between ankles is ok up until about 10kg. People generally don't think about this possibility.

I see pull ups/chins as an assistance exercise. If I did max out on heavy weighted ones I wouldn't be recover for other stuff (deadlift, squat, bench, military press).

itsallaboutheL

BossArky wrote: »

I see pull ups/chins as an assistance exercise. If I did max out on heavy weighted ones I wouldn't be recover for other stuff (deadlift, squat, bench, military press).

Ditto,

Plus there is added possibility of injury with low rep high weight chins/pulls that don't really exist with Lat Pulldowns imo.

squod

itsallaboutheL wrote: »

Ditto,

Plus there is added possibility of injury with low rep high weight chins/pulls that don't really exist with Lat Pulldowns imo.

That due had the plates right close to his knackers, not kewl having to explain to sum burd you lost your tackle in an extreme pull-up contest.
One to avoid in my book.

Transform

BossArky wrote: »

Most people won't have a dip belt or similar to hook weights onto. Holding a dumbbell between ankles is ok up until about 10kg. People generally don't think about this possibility.

I see pull ups/chins as an assistance exercise. If I did max out on heavy weighted ones I wouldn't be recover for other stuff (deadlift, squat, bench, military press).

Not sure i agree with that one as i have found doing weighted chins has massively helped all other big lifts - even today i had a friend doing 35kg added weight and he weighs just 75kg.

He can also bang out about 30reps on chins with no added weight and its helped him also on all exercises.

Plus he does not need to work his gunzzzzzz

dioltas

This kinda relates to something I've been wondering about.
In Rippetoe's practical programming novice program, you do 3 sets of 5 reps for every exercise except pulls / chins where he says to start adding weight if you can do more than 15 reps per set I think.

Why not do 3 sets of 5 and add weight like the other exercises?
Enjoying the program, just wondering about the reasoning behind this.

BossArky

Transform wrote: »

Not sure i agree with that one

I'm sure they are great in a structured program.

My comment is in relation to my current routine. I would not be able to fit in a 5th life sapping exercise.

BobbyOLeary

Transform wrote: »

Plus he does not need to work his gunzzzzzz

Wrong. Everyone needs to work the gunzzzz brah. Preacher curlzzz >> Pullups

I never really got into weighted bodyweight stuff as BossArky said, I didn't have a dipping belt. Used to use a karate belt but it was a pain in the ass so I never kept it up. Good question why they're not done 3x5 like everything else. Must re-read Starting Strength, I'm pretty sure Rip mentions it.

d-gal

Did an upper back day workout yesterday

Bent over row - 8,7,6 - 110kg
Plate loaded Lat Pulley - 8,7,6 - 120kg
Single arm row - 3 x 8 - 44kg DB
Close grip pulley - 3 x 8 - 80kg (dying slowly by this stage)

I am much happier with doing these exercises rather than adding pull ups. I did them for years and just found little benefit. Adding weight just makes my shoulders feel like they are going to pop so I prefer to stick with the exercises that give me a more comfortable grip and allow me to lift more weight.

Cravez

I think though alot of people just want to bang on as much weight as possible and go hell for leather and then find it very hard because they might not even be able to manage 1 rep. Start with adding small weight first and slowly start building it up. It took me around 1 & half - 2 years to go from 5kg to 60kg+ pull-ups. It does take a while, your body and your muscles have to adapt to having that kind of weight strapped onto you. I honestly think it's worth it also down the line. Iv never experienced back growth as much as doing weighted pull-ups and i also think it crosses over to help over with most rowing/pulling movements

sfag

Surely you guys that are adding weight are doing your chins at the beginning of your back day - assuming you split your body parts so.
Therefore you give it priority over rows and deads - the compounds that more often used as progress indicators.

My chins come after deads and if I lift to my max on the deads I'm lucky if I can finish my sets of bodyweights chins.
I still appear to get the benefit as I feel it the next day and the back is wider than than my front.

Hanley

d-gal wrote: »

Did an upper back day workout yesterday

Bent over row - 8,7,6 - 110kg
Plate loaded Lat Pulley - 8,7,6 - 120kg
Single arm row - 3 x 8 - 44kg DB
Close grip pulley - 3 x 8 - 80kg (dying slowly by this stage)

I am much happier with doing these exercises rather than adding pull ups. I did them for years and just found little benefit. Adding weight just makes my shoulders feel like they are going to pop so I prefer to stick with the exercises that give me a more comfortable grip and allow me to lift more weight.

Agreed with the above... I much prefer just doing heavy rows and pulldowns to be honest. I can bang out a mean set of pull ups without any hassle, so it's not like I avoid the exercise (just look at my log!!), I just don't see the need to do something that, for me, has huge potential downside costs and not a whole lot of upside benefit that could be got elsewhere.

itsallaboutheL

Hanley wrote: »

Agreed with the above... I much prefer just doing heavy rows and pulldowns to be honest. I can bang out a mean set of pull ups without any hassle, so it's not like I avoid the exercise (just look at my log!!), I just don't see the need to do something that, for me, has huge potential downside costs and not a whole lot of upside benefit that could be got elsewhere.

oh thats what i was trying to say, yay validation:rolleyes:

Roper

With weighted pull ups, the key to avoiding injury is all in the shape. Elbows forward, not too wide a grip (shoulder width is fine). If you're putting big weight on and pulling with your hands on the widest grips, you're putting undue stress on the shoulders.

sunnyjim

Roper, you've just mentioned something that's actually been bugging me for a while!

The whole 'elbows forward' thing; I tend to have them forward for my normal pull-ups. It always has me wondering - should I be pulling them back behind me, or is it ok to have them forward of my chest? The reason I ask is that most of the time, after the 2nd set of 10, I find that my pecs are getting a bit tighter, I can feel that somehow they are getting recruited...

Roper

sunnyjim wrote: »

Roper, you've just mentioned something that's actually been bugging me for a while!

The whole 'elbows forward' thing; I tend to have them forward for my normal pull-ups. It always has me wondering - should I be pulling them back behind me, or is it ok to have them forward of my chest? The reason I ask is that most of the time, after the 2nd set of 10, I find that my pecs are getting a bit tighter, I can feel that somehow they are getting recruited...

I'm not really sure what you mean without seeing an image. Basically the setup we teach and test with is this:
Hang with your arms parrallel to each other. Pull and your elbows should stay forward automatically, and at the top try to get your upper chest to hit the bar rather than just getting your chin over. What should happen at the top is that your elbows shoule be more or less squeezed to your ribs with your biceps touching your forearms. You will recruit the chest to some extent as this is a complete upper body pull. You just want to make sure that you're doing all your extra back work which will aid the pulls too.

A few things for the gunz haters.
1) Biceps contribute to almost every upper body lift. Some direct work is always good
2) For contact/combat sports, large biceps form a big part in the physical intimidation of your opponent. Do the evolution.
3) You can't see the hamstrings when you're leaning on the bar ordering an appletini for a lady.

That's not to say they should be the cornerstone of a workout, but just because the internet hates bicep curls it doesn't mean you have to too.

d'Oracle

Roper wrote: »

A few things for the gunz haters.
1) Biceps contribute to almost every upper body lift. Some direct work is always good
2) For contact/combat sports, large biceps form a big part in the physical intimidation of your opponent. Do the evolution.
3) You can't see the hamstrings when you're leaning on the bar ordering an appletini for a lady.

That's not to say they should be the cornerstone of a workout, but just because the internet hates bicep curls it doesn't mean you have to too.

Thats all well and good.
But curls are also boring and time consuming.
Bar chins (Or supine grip pullups what ever), is there more interesting ways to work them?

Roper

d'Oracle wrote: »

Thats all well and good.
But curls are also boring and time consuming.

That's all relative. Everything consumes units of time. I've never seen an exercise that doesn't consume time. Maybe some people find them boring, but I find them about as boring as everything else in my programme and some people love them.

Bar chins (Or supine grip pullups what ever), is there more interesting ways to work them?

Again define interesting? I mean, my goal when I'm doing a session is to get the effect, not to be stimulated mentally. Granted I want variety so I'll never do the same thing over and over ad infinitum but I really don't care what the session contains as long as I'm getting what I want out of it.

There's plenty of room for variety. Supine chins, barbell curls, preacher curls, hammer curls and so on. It really depends on the session.

rubadub

d-gal wrote: »

Adding weight just makes my shoulders feel like they are going to pop

I find this in the deadhang position. This is why I like doing heavy negatives, you can start out in a very high position with a lot of weight.

BTW lidl have chinup bars for 6.99 from next monday
http://www.lidl.ie/ie/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20091005.p.Chin-Up_Bar

d'Oracle

rubadub wrote: »

I find this in the deadhang position. This is why I like doing heavy negatives, you can start out in a very high position with a lot of weight.

BTW lidl have chinup bars for 6.99 from next monday
http://www.lidl.ie/ie/home.nsf/pages/c.o.20091005.p.Chin-Up_Bar

Damn......95kg.

itsallaboutheL

d'Oracle wrote: »

Damn......95kg.

Yay, i can use it!!:)

d'Oracle

Roper wrote: »

That's all relative. Everything consumes units of time. I've never seen an exercise that doesn't consume time.

I'm not sure that was smart-arse enough.;)

Thanks for the reply.

rubadub

d'Oracle wrote: »

Damn......95kg.

My 2 bars also said 95kg. I have mine between 2 walls, one is only partition type hollow wall. I have had 85+50=135kg on it and it was fine.

They always have factors of safety built in. My hollow ezcurl bar is rated to 60kg I think, I have 100kg on it with no problem, but it did bend a little over 130kg.

2 chinup bars could make a good parallel bar setup, could be put in a side passage of your house.

Roper

d'Oracle wrote: »

I'm not sure that was smart-arse enough.;)

Well ask a stupid question... Hope the rest of it made sense though.

d'Oracle

Roper wrote: »

Well ask a stupid question... Hope the rest of it made sense though.

Poorly phrased maybe...:(