bloody disgrace

thirstywork

I don't normally give out on forums but after the weekend im disgusted.
Brian Maher who won the half marathon in the park won 300euro.
In any other sport based on the money that was taken in for the event ie sponsors and 20euro entrance fee this is shocking.
I asked a good few non runners what they thought he would get and i got a range of answers from 1000euro to 5000euro,now i dont expect that sort of money but surely adidas would give him alot of clothing and running shoes(good for the brand to have a winner wearing it in maybe another adidas race series also)
I know of people who have got 200euro in a bhaa team race,no disrespect to BHAA but a half marathon is not like a 5k or 10k,it takes it out of the body more.
Going of on a rant here but what are peoples opinions?
if 8,000 people entered that is 160,000 euro.
I persoanlly think a minimum of 1,000 euro would have been an aceptable prize.

robinph

300 euros is bloody awful prize money for an event the size of the half marathon.

shels4ever

Im very suprised at that would have though the prize fund would have been higher . But If you also take into account the price to run was only €20 , It's a price that you can't even run some 10k in the park for.
I'd say the costs are prob high too but wouldnt hurt to double/Triple the winners prize. Think it all comes down to what the event is, an elite event with a top class field or a mass run race for the nornal joes.

tunney

Shels, the profit that was made out of this race is huge I'd wage. They don't have to pay because (see other thread about rte and the worlds) the average "runner" in these events cares little about elite runners or running and couldn't give a toss as long as they get a nice t-shirt.

Its a disgrace alright.

Money in race organisation is huge, why do you think there are a huge more "professsional" race organisers these days?

run like a fox

It's a bit crap alright when you consider a 4 mile race in Carlow, on the same weekend, with an entry fee of €15 had a prize fund of €10,000. The men's winner could have won up to €1,050 (1st Men - €500, 1st Team of 4 - €200, Course Record €500).

I'm sure the Loughrea 5 Mile Race also had a decent prize fund as well.

EDIT - Just remembered that the Warrior Run had first place prize of €1,000.

rdunne

Note: BHAA don't run this race . The dublin marathon lads do

kennyb3

8000 people by 20 each = 160,000 euro. so how can they only afford to give the winner a tiny tiny percentage of that? surely thes costs arent 159,000 euro

--amadeus--

Don't forget that your costs go up along with your income when you get into big numbers. Extra insurance, extra refreshments, more volunteers means more volunteer T shirts, more paramedics.

Not justifying it - I have no idea how much profit the event made - just saying it may not be as clear cut as it first appears.

shels4ever

tunney wrote: »

Shels, the profit that was made out of this race is huge I'd wage. They don't have to pay because (see other thread about rte and the worlds) the average "runner" in these events cares little about elite runners or running and couldn't give a toss as long as they get a nice t-shirt.

Its a disgrace alright.

Money in race organisation is huge, why do you think there are a huge more "professsional" race organisers these days?

Fair point there , never organnised a race of this size myself so have no idea on the cost involved. But i do agree that the prize was way too low.


I wonder was the prize fund as bad for the 5 mile and 10 mins too?

delboyfagan

I've often wondered what the net profit to an organiser is in the 'for profit races'. I mainly do tris and have come across a number in the last few years and have tried to work out proft per entry based on certain cost assumptions.

I do agree with the prize money being very poor for the half last week.

Whilst the half marathon seems well run my beef is with races (whether running/tris) that have costly entry fees and are for profit but provide poor organistaion, inadequate safety and use the local community as volunteers whilst taking all the money.

tunney

delboyfagan wrote: »

Whilst the half marathon seems well run my beef is with races (whether running/tris) that have costly entry fees and are for profit but provide poor organistaion, inadequate safety and use the local community as volunteers whilst taking all the money.

QTF

How Strange

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Don't forget that your costs go up along with your income when you get into big numbers. Extra insurance, extra refreshments, more volunteers means more volunteer T shirts, more paramedics.

Not justifying it - I have no idea how much profit the event made - just saying it may not be as clear cut as it first appears.

It's a very meagre prize alright but amadeus has a fair point.

If anyone other than marathon organisers put on this half marathon we would be paying €60-80 for entry.

I'd imagine that because the numbers doubled this year the costs of insurance, kitted out volunteers and paramedics soared. They wouldn't have been allowed hold this event for h&s reasons without complying with the necessary regulations. No one can argue that the organisation of this races are first rate.

That said, I would like to see the prize money increased to a figure benchmarked against similar races.

--amadeus--

I heard of a small 10k recently run as a charity "mini-marathon" which cleared €3k for the organisation. I have no idea of the numbers involved and I doubt it had any certification, etc

Oryx

Well, this has me doubting my ears. Because Im sure I heard that crazy announcer on the day mentioning a prize fund of ten grand. I was listening as he also said the female winner, a barrister, 'didnt need the money'.:)

robinph

OK, so the costs increase with the numbers of competitors increasing. Do the costs of insurance etc really go up by €80,000 just because of twice the number of runners?

dna_leri

run like a fox wrote: »

EDIT - Just remembered that the Warrior Run had first place prize of €1,000.

I have heard complaints that the Warrior's run prize money is meagre but by comparison to other races its not. However in the past it was £1000 (punts).

It would be interesting to know how prize money has varied with time, while the entry fees have certainly increased.

dna_leri

How Strange wrote: »

It's a very meagre prize alright but amadeus has a fair point.

I'd imagine that because the numbers doubled this year the costs of insurance, kitted out volunteers and paramedics soared.

.

Ok but if numbers doubled, you would expect variable costs (insurance, Volunteers kit, paramedics) would at most double as well while many others would would be fixed one-off costs. Therefore the profits would at least double also.

As prize money is really just another cost, it would be reasonable to expect that to double also.

run like a fox

Don't forget there's not only income generated from entrance fees. There's also two big sponsor's names attached to this race series.

kennyb3

robinph wrote: »

OK, so the costs increase with the numbers of competitors increasing. Do the costs of insurance etc really go up by €80,000 just because of twice the number of runners?

exactly - economies of scale and all that. i would of figured it would be less costly to them per head, given the increased numbers thereby i would of expected teh prize fund to be increased - even tho it should be higher anyway

jlang

(Maybe it's because I'm not up there in a big races (yet)) but I don't care what the prizes are. Whether the winner runs 1:05 or 1:20 won't affect my own target time. Let a more commercial race (e.g. Great Run) charge the bucks, give some to a couple of elite runners and stick the rest in their pockets. This one is a well-run, cheap half (by Irish standards), it has a good goody bag and a nice shirt. It's a race for mass participation and for many it's a pre-race race for the marathon. I'd prefer that to a race with hoopla over who's flown in to pick up an easy few grand. Having spent the summer doing cheap races where the prize might be a box of chocolates or equivalent to getting not much more than your entry fee back, I'm comfortable with the idea that the majority of people (even the winners) don't do this for the money.

I'm not asking to see the accounts, but I doubt there's a big cash surplus left over and if they're going to put money from the half into an elite pot, I'd say it'll go towards the marathon itself, which is more of an international big deal.

henryporter

If I had known there was €300 at stake I would have run a bit harder! Seriously though - it is a disgrace given the amount of training that goes in to any type of running. The rest of us are doing it for whatever reasons - the elite runners are doing it as a career and should get paid a good wage for their work.

Iron Enthusiast

This really gets under my skin as it sounds like its down to nothing other than Greed on behalf of the organisers.

The more runners you have in a race the lower your cost per runner should become and therefore the higher your profit margin - (if you believe in the laws of economics).

No major city centre streets were closed for this race as it took place in the phoenix park (so it's not like they closed O'Connell st) and in addition to the income from registration fees - they also had the income from the ample sponsorship visible on the course.

It's no surprise that the entry fee for the Dublin Marathon is another rip-off in comparison to it's european counter-parts, not to mention the lack of food at the aid stations on the course.

Personally I think the organisers should be ashamed of themselves, for offering such a petty prize.

They cheapen the accomplishments of the people who win these races by not giving them adequate recognition and rewards for what they have achieved.

They also do Ireland an injustice by reinforcing the view of it a country where consumers continue to get ripped off, as race organisers for some reason feel it's right to take advantage of peoples interest in running and tri's etc..

It's not.

(Sorry, after Eireman and now this, I feel very strongly about people ripping off athletes who genuinely love their sport and just want to race in a fairly run event! You wouldn't think it's too much to ask for)

Peckham

An alternative way to look at this would be that increased prize money might attract a better standard of runner at the top end of the field (either from home or abroad). This could mean that the guys who finished in top 3 would have finished further down the field and out of the places/money...so in a bizarre way it may be in their interest that the prize money is low. Gives them an opportunity to win/place in a reasonably prestigious race.

That said, the prize money does look very low when compared to smaller/less prestigous races around the country.

Peckham

Iron Enthusiast wrote: »

I feel very strongly about people ripping off athletes who genuinely love their sport and just want to race in a fairly run event! You wouldn't think it's too much to ask for)

I love my sport and I don't feel ripped off by this event. Quite the contrary - I thought it was probably the best value event I've entered this year.

Iron Enthusiast

Hey Peckham,

I'm delighted that the half is run and that it is so popular.

My rant was more aimed at the ridiculous prize money offered by the organisers, given the money thet must have made from the event (especially with the huge increase in it's popularity)

It also reflected how I feel about the Dublin Marathon entry fee - which is the same orgainser.

asimonov

i get the impression that the growth in numbers for the adidas race series is more by accident than by design.

There's a huge running / trithalon boom at the moment, and whilst its easy to get the impression that certain organisations and events have stepped into to profit take on the opportunity, i don't think this series is one of them. I think they were actually caught on the hop a little. It will be interesting to see if they increase the prize next year.

Great run by Brian Maher though. He's a class act.

Hard Worker

The race organisers already received e mails on this subject, some of them were quite nasty.
In response, the race series give prizes to the top 20 men and women, with 20th place getting 50 euro. I think that's more than anyone would get for finishing 20th in any other race. Also, there are prizes for the top 3 masters in each age category from over 35 to over 80 if required. There are also junior prizes.
As I already said on another thread, no individual on the race organising committee make a cent from the events that they organise. If the event makes a profit, the money goes back into athletics, either through the AAI, Civil Service Harriers or the BHAA, depending on which race it is. I can assure you that nothing annoys volunteers more than being accused of being GREEDY.
The race organising committee ensure that the events are run to the very highest standard of health and safety. There are virtually a number of field hospitals on the course and at the finish. The senior stewards are always well briefed and are among the best at event management.
The race series were not originally designed to be elite events. The entry fee is kept as low as possible, between €15 and €20. I think most people are happy to keep it that way.
I also mentioned before that the race series has grown so much that it would involve a review for 2010. That review has already started. Peoples ideas are always welcome. However, nasty e mails, which seemed to circulate from one particular quarter, will get nowhere.

plodder

It's the old story - lack of information. The page on the website says there are prizes for the top ten men and women, without saying what the prizes are. What's the problem with saying what the prize money actually is? I know it didn't matter to most people who entered, but who would enter any other kind of competition without knowing the prize-money, if it did matter to you ??

And the old chestnut

A portion of the entry fee will be donated to the designated charity ...

How much? 10%? .... 1% ? .... 0.000000000001%?

It's a pity because these events are well run, and good value, in my opinion.

scottreynolds

Its a profitable event run as a business. Does the prize money really matter to anyone? I mean did the guys who won care.... Ireland isn't a sporting mecca and the guys run aren't world class so should be offer better prizes.

The race sold out so I don't think the organisers care is people choose not to run because of the prize money.

Saying that if we offered 10,000 first prize perhaps we could get a better turn out of top pros and the race would grow even bigger.

--amadeus--

scottreynolds wrote: »

Its a profitable event run as a business. Does the prize money really matter to anyone? I mean did the guys who won care.... Ireland isn't a sporting mecca and the guys run aren't world class so should be offer better prizes.

The race sold out so I don't think the organisers care is people choose not to run because of the prize money.

Saying that if we offered 10,000 first prize perhaps we could get a better turn out of top pros and the race would grow even bigger.

I don't know any more about this than anyone else but my understanding is that while it is run as a business and may be profitable the organisers themselves do not profit. Which is an important distinction.

Personally I'm not that bothered about the prize fund as it's not something I'll ever be raiding, but given a choice between a local runner getting a small prize and everyone paying small entry fees or a top elite getting a big prize and all of us paying higher entries than I know which I prefer.

Woddle

Hard Worker wrote: »

The race organisers already received e mails on this subject, some of them were quite nasty.

I wonder how many mails you get saying what a great race it was, people can be very quick to moan compared with the many 1000s who went home more than satisfied, great race and its great to see a race include the juniors and all age categories in the prizes and wasn't it fantastic to have a race that is so adaptable and takes on suggestions from the runners and puts them in place.
Well done and keep up the good work.

Stupid_Private

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Personally I'm not that bothered about the prize fund as it's not something I'll ever be raiding, but given a choice between a local runner getting a small prize and everyone paying small entry fees or a top elite getting a big prize and all of us paying higher entries than I know which I prefer.

Woah, woah, woah... I don't think the entry fee for 8,000 people would have to go up at all to bring the prize money for the winners more in line with big local events, not even events of its size. If men's and women's first prizes were brought to say €800 - €1000 and for some reason they decided to increase the entrance fee to take this extra €1,400 into account, it would result in an increase of 20 cents a head per entrant! I know this is very crude maths but saying entrance fees would need to go up is taking the easy option out.

shels4ever

Woddle wrote: »

I wonder how many mails you get saying what a great race it was, people can be very quick to moan compared with the many 1000s who went home more than satisfied, great race and its great to see a race include the juniors and all age categories in the prizes and wasn't it fantastic to have a race that is so adaptable and takes on suggestions from the runners and puts them in place.
Well done and keep up the good work.

I hope there were a good few good mails as the event was very well run, only issue i have is with ipods in crowds but thats not specific to this race.

bewleys berry

it's really poor prizemoney alright for such a large field race but i'm surprised that everyone is so taken aback by it..... the prize money for this race has long been known to be not hectic....... the winner should definitely be getting at least 500 if not 1000, but then again if brian was gonna run purely for the money he would have turned up in tinryland on sunday (as previously mentioned), where he would have had a very good shot at the dash for cash at the first mile too!

he ran the all three adidas races, so obviously had a fair idea what the prizemoney was gonna be like for the half, after he finished third in both five and ten milers, so he obviously wanted a good race (and a good time) rather than a big pot......will be interesting to see whether he does the full, as his racing trend seems to be heading that way....

kennyb3

Like, Peckham i have to say compared to other events this was an abolute steal to enter. i was actually surprised how little it was.

but i also agree with stupid private and his maths.

striking a balance is clearly the key.

plodder

Woddle wrote: »

I wonder how many mails you get saying what a great race it was, people can be very quick to moan compared with the many 1000s who went home more than satisfied, great race and its great to see a race include the juniors and all age categories in the prizes and wasn't it fantastic to have a race that is so adaptable and takes on suggestions from the runners and puts them in place.
Well done and keep up the good work.

Agreed. I remember after my first DCM, I emailed the organisers to say thanks, (and to make a few suggestions). I was surprised to get a reply from the race director, who very kindly answered all my questions and was receptive to the suggestions.

On the prize-money question, I agree with Hard Worker. If the money is being invested back in athletics, that's good enough for me. It would be better to tell people what the prizes are before hand though.

How Strange

Iron Enthusiast wrote: »

This really gets under my skin as it sounds like its down to nothing other than Greed on behalf of the organisers.

No major city centre streets were closed for this race as it took place in the phoenix park (so it's not like they closed O'Connell st) and in addition to the income from registration fees - they also had the income from the ample sponsorship visible on the course.

Personally I think the organisers should be ashamed of themselves, for offering such a petty prize.

They cheapen the accomplishments of the people who win these races by not giving them adequate recognition and rewards for what they have achieved.

They also do Ireland an injustice by reinforcing the view of it a country where consumers continue to get ripped off

IMO, this is hopping on a bandwagon and once a thread like this one starts it soon descends into 'bash the organisers' . The Race Series 2009 was fantastic. It was obvious from the 5mile that the organisers would have to rethink things due to unprecedented popularity and they did exactly that each time. It was commendable how they coped with twice the volume of entrants for the half without compromising on the excellent organisation we've come to expect from them.

The series should be held up as a model of organisation and good value for races - great organisation, cheap entry fee, great goody bags.

Iron Enthusiast, you may have complaints about the organisation of other races and the greed of organisers (which I agree with in the main) but you're projecting it unfairly onto the race series.

Arguments about the prize money may be legitimate but the atheletes went into the race aware of the prize and also probably aware that if the money was higher then it would attract a higher calibre of athelete so they might not have won.

shels4ever

How Strange wrote: »

the atheletes went into the race aware of the prize and also probably aware that if the money was higher then it would attract a higher calibre of athelete so they might not have won.

Valid point and the winner did run all the races in the series so must no thave been an issue for him.

Iron Enthusiast

Hi "How Strange,"

I understand what your saying but again, my point is simply that with such a huge number of people paying registration fees and also the revenue from the advertising/sponsorship, I think it is a disgrace that the winners of the event were only awarded a few hundred Euro? (You can't deny that is a tiny sum for the size of the event?)


"Iron Enthusiast, you may have complaints about the organisation of other races and the greed of organisers (which I agree with in the main) but you're projecting it unfairly onto the race series." by How Strange

I think the Race series is great.

As mentioned, i'm delighted that the Half Marathon was held and also that it had such a huge turn out, I even think the registration fee was very reasonable, that is was very well organised and I completely support the race series - but that doesn't change the fact that I feel the prize money awarded was entirely disproportionate to the number of people who raced.

(also I'm not jumping on a bandwagon - i'm talking about something I've had a strong opinion about long before this thread opened - Eireman, DCM entry fee, etc... etc...)

To clarify: I don't see the problem with anyone making a profit, it enhances our sports if "managed fairly".:)

--amadeus--

Fair enough, you think the prize money should have been bigger. But the winner ran the race knowing the prize pot and I'm not seeing much in teh way of complaints from him, or the others who picked up prizes. And out of the 8,000 who ran the prize money really only affected what - 15? 20? Maybe 30 people? Roughly 0.38% of the participants?

Was the race well organised? Yes
Was the race well managed on the day? Yes
Was it well marshalled? Yes
Was the distance accurate? Yes
Was there a decent goodie bag / T shirt? Yes
Was there adequate first aid? Yes
Was it insured? Yes
Was it certified? Yes

Consider the chaos at other races this year and previously. Now consider the fact the only thing that people can find to complain about is a low value first prize. I reckon that shows just how well organised this race was.

hawkwing

I would not be too worried whether the winner got 300 or 500 to be honest as someone of that standard is winning several other races anyway.Besides if it was a really big first prize then someone from overseas would claim it and fair play to them. It is nice to hear that the top 20 etc get prizes.I thought the race series in the end was excellent after several problems in the 5 miler which were then addressed.:)

myflipflops

Completely off topic but does anyoone know is Brian Maher running DCM (or any othe marathon this winter?). His run in the half was impressive and winning by that distance indicates that there's more there. Very interested to see what he would do over the full 26.2.

Stupid_Private

pwhite587 wrote: »

Completely off topic but does anyoone know is Brian Maher running DCM (or any othe marathon this winter?). His run in the half was impressive and winning by that distance indicates that there's more there. Very interested to see what he would do over the full 26.2.

I have heard he's not, but someone who actually knows him may be better placed to give a definite answer on that.

Esroh

I've read thru the full thread and the 'Income from Sponsorship' has appeared a few times
I would have thought that Addidas would have agreed to have their name as Title Sponsors in return for the marketing/advertising budget of these events . Doubt the Organisers would get a single cent cashin hand and definitely would have any change left to add to any event profits

Racing Flat

Hard Worker wrote: »

If the event makes a profit, the money goes back into athletics, either through the AAI, Civil Service Harriers or the BHAA, depending on which race it is.

None of my business, but I wonder what Civil Service do with the money? Do they have any juvenile or junior runners? They don't seem to enter teams in Novice, Inter or Senior races. Granted thay have a few vets, but they don't seem too active - or am I wrong???

emerald007

I'd suggest for the next race series that the prize structure is more clearly outlined before each race. I knew there was a prize for 3rd before the race, but i didn't know what was - it turned out to be 150 euro. It might also be an idea to tell the prize winners when the presentations will be held, so that they can be there to collect it themselves.

BMaher

Hi folks, just like to clear up a few things. As a few of ye kindly pointed out, I didnt run it for money. Anyone who asked what I got was not impressed. My own opinion? Yes, the money is poor.However, I knew what it was going into the race as I got 150 for 3rd in the 5 and 10miles. I'd gladly swap the money for a 65/66min! Bottom line is money is a nice by-product of racing. I could have went to Tinryland as someone pointed out but what good is 500quid at the 22mile mark when yer out on yer ear! And no, I wont be running Dublin. Possibly a marathon next year though. On another note, the Dublin half was very well run and I loved the whole experience(except from mile10-12!). Well done to all 8000!

Krusty_Clown

Congrats on the win Brian. Like a few other here, I was out taking photographs on the day, and it was great to see someone leading so strongly right from the start of the race. It's also refreshing to see that the win was more important than the prize.

kennyb3

BMaher wrote: »

Hi folks, just like to clear up a few things. As a few of ye kindly pointed out, I didnt run it for money. Anyone who asked what I got was not impressed. My own opinion? Yes, the money is poor.However, I knew what it was going into the race as I got 150 for 3rd in the 5 and 10miles. I'd gladly swap the money for a 65/66min! Bottom line is money is a nice by-product of racing. I could have went to Tinryland as someone pointed out but what good is 500quid at the 22mile mark when yer out on yer ear! And no, I wont be running Dublin. Possibly a marathon next year though. On another note, the Dublin half was very well run and I loved the whole experience(except from mile10-12!). Well done to all 8000!

Brian nice of you to come on here and put your thoughts across. best of luck for the rest of the season

bazman

--amadeus-- wrote: »

Fair enough, you think the prize money should have been bigger. But the winner ran the race knowing the prize pot and I'm not seeing much in teh way of complaints from him, or the others who picked up prizes. And out of the 8,000 who ran the prize money really only affected what - 15? 20? Maybe 30 people? Roughly 0.38% of the participants?

How did the winner know the prize pot when it wasn't made public? The race is certainly well organised & is obviously doing something right with the numbers in the race (e.g. low entry is great). It's just a real pity that it doesn't attract many top club runners. It's relatively easy break into the top-10 in this race and it shouldn't be. One option would be to merge it with the National Half Marathon. The other is to have a higher & public prize structure. Loughrea & Tinryland both has significantly higher prizes on a smaller budget the same weekend. Organisers definitely have enough money to do so and if they don't it would be so easy to get prizes sponsored with the publicity ...
Would also be nice to see a faster course so that Brian get's his 65/66 next year

gigantic09

Cant find any argument to justify the prizmoney awarded but at the end of the day very few of us do it for the money and its refreshing to hear brians comments.My carrear earnings to date amount to a pair of socks and a plastic ruler for fin 3rd in a fun run.At the end of the day i had to admit-"it isnt all about the ruler":)