Irish referendum irrelevant?

major bill

Seems the czechs are doing all they can to delay signing.

http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/

View

major bill wrote: »

Seems the czechs are doing all they can to delay signing.

http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/

Fair enough. That means all you No voters can vote Yes, let the Czech President block it, and then watch the Czechs - rather than us - take all the flak.

caseyann

View wrote: »

Fair enough. That means all you No voters can vote Yes, let the Czech President block it, and then watch the Czechs - rather than us - take all the flak.

See that is disturbing that you think by voting No there is flak to be taken :eek:

ei.sdraob

caseyann wrote: »

See that is disturbing that you think by voting No there is flak to be taken :eek:

you missed the obvious dig at the no side

wheres your sense of humor this afternoon

prinz

major bill wrote: »

Seems the czechs one czech is doing all he can to delay signing.

http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/

FYP.

Given that it's written by a euroseptic... smells funny to me.

caseyann

ei.sdraob wrote: »

you missed the obvious dig at the no side

wheres your sense of humor this afternoon

I got that :P
I am no side and i think View really believes it

ParkRunner

So when would the Lisbon Treaty come into force if the vote is yes?

major bill

EF wrote: »

So when would the Lisbon Treaty come into force if the vote is yes?

if the paper is to be believed your looking at another year minimum!

ei.sdraob

EF wrote: »

So when would the Lisbon Treaty come into force if the vote is yes?

once all countries ratify it

RandomName2

The idea is to give long enough for the British to get a vote.

That is, provided that Klaus doesn't get pushed out a window.

Damn - nobody here is going to get the historical reference!

---

-Quick, quick, push it through before some public get's a vote!
-Sir, Ireland constitutionally has to get a vote.
-Nuts! Well,if they reject it, we can just get them to vote again, like last time. And we all know how much they value their celtic tiger lifestyles. Let's just threaten to destroy their economy, and see how fast they sing.

ParkRunner

Seems like the democractic thing to do anyway, give the English people a vote!

RandomName2

EF wrote: »

Seems like the democractic thing to do anyway, give the English people a vote!

Ah, you see it's their own fault (apparently).

They elected a government that promised to give a referendum, but backed out because it realised that the public couldn't be trusted (after all, their being elected was testament to the public's poor judgement). Given that there are a number of european publics that are or leaning towards euroskepticism, the most important thing is for them to have as little influence over the direction of the EU as possible. Particularly since you could hardly run a campaign in the UK or France based solely on the grounds that they could become an isolated economic backwater if they misbehaved (which is why the EU Constitution was shelved).

Kev_ps3

EF wrote: »

Seems like the democractic thing to do anyway, give the English people a vote!

Give the people of Europe a vote - are you crazy:eek:

The Volt

Kev_ps3 wrote: »

Give the people of Europe a vote - are you crazy:eek:

A vote on something we shouldn't have a vote on in the first place.

marco_polo

EF wrote: »

Seems like the democractic thing to do anyway, give the English people a vote!

It does? I would have thought the democratic thing to do would be to sign the bill that both Houses of the Czech parliament have ratified already (by the required constitutional majorities), and that the Courts have deemed to be constitutional.

http://www.radio.cz/en/article/116071

The Government is not best pleased:

Czech government statement on the ratification process for the Treaty of Lisbon
The Committee for the EU today discussed at government level the ratification process for the Treaty of Lisbon within the EU and in particular within the Czech Republic.


In this regard the government stresses that it is still ready to play an active part in this process and thus to continue to meet the joint commitment of all member states from the June European Council to complete ratification of the Treaty by the end of this year.

The parliamentary part of ratification was completed in May 2009, when the Senate expressed its agreement to the Treaty of Lisbon following that given by the Chamber of Deputies; in both cases this was past by a constitutional majority.
In an attempt to leave room for the proposal, notified some time earlier, by a group of senators for a further constitutional review of the Treaty, the Czech President has decided for the moment not to append his signature to the ratification document. The Czech Republic, together with Poland, Ireland and Germany, is thus one of the last countries in the European Union to complete the ratification process.

On the basis of a proposal by the Senate, the Treaty of Lisbon was the subject of a review last year by the Constitutional Court, and was not found to be in contravention of the constitutional order of the Czech Republic. On 1st September 2009 a group of senators approached the Constitutional Court with a further submission which does not concern the Treaty of Lisbon as such, but the so-called "Lisbon Amendments to the Rules of Procedure".

This strengthens the role of parliament in decision-making on certain EU questions. A second submission against the Treaty of Lisbon has not yet been made to the Constitutional Court, although it has been repeatedly advised by the senators. The two proposals are not materially linked and thus there is nothing to prevent the proposal on the Treaty of Lisbon being submitted without further unnecessary delay.

Although the government considers the original finding of the Constitutional Court to be sufficient, it does not call into question the right of senators to subject the Treaty to a thorough legal and political review, as provided for in the constitutional order of the Czech Republic. In this regard the government nevertheless wishes to point out that any continuing deferral of the end of the ratification process would have a negative impact on the position and influence of the Czech Republic within the EU.

During its presidency of the EU Council the Czech Republic demonstrated its ability to be an active and responsible member state. It has convinced its European partners that it is a country which is able to constructively influence the direction of the entire European Union.

The government therefore believes that it will succeed in the near future in dispelling all remaining doubts about the conformity of the Treaty of Lisbon with the Czech Constitution, so that the ratification process can be successfully completed. The government is convinced that thanks to the reform of institutions and policies which the Treaty of Lisbon will bring about, the Union will operate more efficiently and that as a result its member states, including the Czech Republic, will be better able to meet new challenges.

RandomName2

Voltwad wrote: »

A vote on something we shouldn't have a vote on in the first place.

I don't think there should be Dail elections either. Sure it's almost always FF anyway. No reason not to make it permanent. They have done a reasonable job over the last 80 years. And besides which the public don't have any idea about anything, ever.

The Volt

RandomName2 wrote: »

I don't think there should be Dail elections either. Sure it's almost always FF anyway. No reason not to make it permanent. They have done a reasonable job over the last 80 years. And besides which the public don't have any idea about anything, ever.

Completely different circumstances. General elections and complex referenda cannot be two eggs in the same proverbial basket.

View

RandomName2 wrote: »

The idea is to give long enough for the British to get a vote.

That is, provided that Klaus doesn't get pushed out a window.

Damn - nobody here is going to get the historical reference!

---

-Quick, quick, push it through before some public get's a vote!
-Sir, Ireland constitutionally has to get a vote.
-Nuts! Well,if they reject it, we can just get them to vote again, like last time. And we all know how much they value their celtic tiger lifestyles. Let's just threaten to destroy their economy, and see how fast they sing.

The ancient Czech practice of defenestration does have a lot to be said for it.

roosh

Lets not go relying on the Czechs, lets send a clear message ourselves and instead of getting left behind, lets lead the way

K-9

EF wrote: »

Seems like the democractic thing to do anyway, give the English people a vote!

I wish they would too, but if everybody is being honest, they should have 3 options:

Lisbon,
Leave the old EEC,
Leave EEA.

I think it would come down to the last 2.

ei.sdraob

mangaroosh wrote: »

lets send a clear message ourselves and instead of getting left behind, lets lead the way

what message would that be?

and lead the way towards what?

:rolleyes:

RandomName2

Voltwad wrote: »

Completely different circumstances. General elections and complex referenda cannot be two eggs in the same proverbial basket.

Voting on those who write bills, and vote on their ratification, and create budgets concerning public funds (and we elect them on the basis of what law and budgetary decisions they are supposed to make)

Compared to: voting on what competencies these law-makers and budgetary figures should have?

Wait - actually I would prefer just to have the latter option rather than be limited to the former.

RandomName2

Vote Yes to Europe. Not the EU?

Question: as Lisbon rewrites the EU, will it be just known as E from now on?

ECSC-EEC-EC-EU-E? :rolleyes:

Scofflaw

RandomName2 wrote: »

The idea is to give long enough for the British to get a vote.

That is, provided that Klaus doesn't get pushed out a window.

Damn - nobody here is going to get the historical reference!

How very Bohemian of you.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Min

It was on RTE radio 1 on Sunday morning on the world report program.

David Cameron from the conservatives in the UK and President Klaus of the Czech republic had talks about the Lisbon treaty.
Cameron wants Klaus to delay the signing of the treaty if Ireland votes yes. The thing is while the president has to sign the treaty there is no legal time limit once it has been given the go ahead, it gives him the option of stalling so the UK can have a referendum.

It will be interesting to see their debate......

the_dark_side

This was just in todays paper
http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/

PopeBuckfastXVI

RandomName2 wrote: »

The idea is to give long enough for the British to get a vote.

That is, provided that Klaus doesn't get pushed out a window.

Damn - nobody here is going to get the historical reference!

It's been too long since we've seen a decent defenestration...

Elmo

Regardless of what the other European states are doing our "Referendui" are a complete waste of tax payer money, especially when the wrong side win which seems to be the NO side, can't imagine another ref with a YES vote, can you?

Scofflaw

the_dark_side wrote: »

This was just in todays paper
http://synonblog.dailymail.co.uk/

In fact, it was in the paper a week ago, judging by the date on the blog. Unsurprisingly, there's an existing thread (now merged), with an almost identical title.

moderately,
Scofflaw

the_dark_side

Yip, I read it today... I spotted it while lighting the fire... If this latest revelation is true, where does it leave us? After going to all the trouble of reading the damn thing and everything

PopeBuckfastXVI

the_dark_side wrote: »

Yip, I read it today... I spotted it while lighting the fire... If this latest revelation is true, where does it leave us? After going to all the trouble of reading the damn thing and everything

It's for the Czechs to run their country. It leaves us in the exact same position as a week ago: preparing to decide Ireland's stance on the Lisbon treaty.