The whole ''friendship thing''

LegacyUser · 27-09-2009 1:21pm #1

Hi all, the ex girlfriend and I recently broke up over some issues. And she wants to be friends. Im trying to be friends with her but its really hard. Because everytime I speak with her it reminds me of how much I miss her and want to be with her. But she cant get back together with me as she needs some ''independence'' although she says she wants to get back with me...

But I have little faith that we will ever get back together, I don't think shes that type at all..

Any advice? I feel very lost:( I hate not talking to her but it hurts so much talking to her

Wibbs · 27-09-2009 3:08pm

Well my feelings are pretty clear on this one. Lovers to friends is a downgrade. I don't do downgrades. Fine if it was a few snogs or a short term thing, but if the L word was used, no thanks. Too much intimacy has been shared and then you have to go to less? I value myself more.

I would never suggest "lets remain friends" to a woman I dumped in those circumstances. If I did my reasons would be selfish and they nearly always are, but dressed up in concern for the dumped. Basically I would want to drop the parts of the ex I disliked, but not to lose the parts of the ex I liked. Can you imagine if you were the one who wanted to split up and you had said to your ex, "look I don't like you as a personality and I can't see a future together, but is it OK if we keep shagging?. Same coin different side. I would want to have the freedom to get intimate with another, while keeping them around for friendship. I would want to make it seem less of a deal than it was to her, so I wouldn't feel as guilty. Nope. Too self centered for me anyway and it's not fair on them as they would hang on to any false hope(like you are I strongly suspect). I go on the principle that you're either in or you're out, just after a breakup.

Down the line, cool and great if we could be actual real mates, but only when she no longer carried a torch for me.

My advice is to be strong, scrape her off, stop contact until you've moved on. Otherwise it'll only prolong your misery. Fine if your a masochist, but not so good long term. Looking back I would say, for me anyway, contact was mostly out of emotional habit. Not always but mostly. The funny thing is when I was the dumped, when I did get over them, I actually didn't want them as friends. Mostly because I saw parts in them I didn't value in a mate.

Now before she or others throw the "ah but why shouldn't you/it's the mature thing to do/maybe she really values you as a mate" at you, grandmaster in another thread here put it bloody brilliantly.

grandmaster wrote:

For me, if they just want to be friends and I don't, I just don't bother staying in touch. There's no point. I know there's some social pressure and just being friends seems to be the "intellectual moral high road". But at the end of the day, you'd never dream of forcing someone to be in a relationship if it made them unhappy. By the same token, why is guilt tripping someone into just being friends any more acceptable? It's not.

You wanted to be her BF, she didn't want you to be her BF, she chose to leave and that's fine. That's her prerogative and dead right if she felt it wasnt working(ditto if it had been you who called time). She, nor anyone else gets to chose how you decide and if you decide you don't want that, well apply the same reasoning she did in leaving the relationship.

If you want to heal and move on faster move on from her. my 2 cents anyway.

G-Money · 27-09-2009 3:38pm

The only way to get over someone (in my mind) is to not see them or be in contact with them. If it's hurting you seeing her and just being friends, then don't do either of those things. She might not like that, but then again I'm sure you don't like not being with her. So why is what she wants any more important than what you want in this situation?

Never be sucked into accepting friendship with a girl you really like because of outside forces or because that's what society expects you to do. It's only prolonging your misery and boosting her ego that you are still hanging around. You are also her emotional crutch that she will lean on until she tells you after a night out "Something happened last night...." Which basically translates into "I met a guy and I did/want to, f*** him".

Just leave it be, it's better in the long run.

metrovelvet · 27-09-2009 3:47pm

I think the whole "lets be friends" get out clause is a cheap and cowardly means of breaking someone off without paying the price off the loss, whether it be missing them or the guilt of dumping them.

I know there are people who do eventually become friends, but when they say that I think they mean they "are not enemies." I dont believe for a second they go to the cinema together or for pints. The only way this works is if there is absolutely no perceptable imbalance in one desires or lack thereof for the other.

LegacyUser · 27-09-2009 4:21pm

Appreicate the feedback guys and I agree 100%. But I wish it was that simple. I do want her in my life but I think I want her in my life so I can get back with her. She means alot to me. I can honestly say I never felt this way before. And she said she was the same.

She also uses the words '' I do want to be with you, I just dont think I can'' due to rumors being spread. Which were not true, but I understand were she is coming from. But I believe Love is the strongest feeling nothing can overcome it.

And I seen her today also when I was out with my two friends, which were girls. It seemed so awkward. Texting I can deal with because I don't have to show emotion on my face. But in person its so much harder.

Wibbs · 27-09-2009 5:07pm

Randomhelp wrote: »

Appreicate the feedback guys and I agree 100%. But I wish it was that simple.

Gotcha, but IMHO it's nearly always that simple. I'm talking 99.9999999999% of the time. It's not simple for you because you're emotionally attached and you want her back.

I do want her in my life but I think I want her in my life so I can get back with her.

Exactly and that's as complex as it gets. Chances are astronomical that this won't happen. It won't happen if you're "mates" either, or a helluva lot less likely. If you're always around mooning after her, what's she missing? Nothing. She gets what she wants. You in your "friends" box and her happy with that. What do you get? Headwreck and it'll weaken you long term.

She means alot to me. I can honestly say I never felt this way before.

I get that and I get you're really feeling this.

And she said she was the same.

The important word here is "was" and she likely meant it too at the time.

She also uses the words '' I do want to be with you, I just dont think I can'' due to rumors being spread. Which were not true, but I understand were she is coming from.

IMHO I call BS on that. Sorry to be a cu.. but I do. I've seen people overcome pretty big obstacles because they had the hots for someone, never mind loved them. Huge upheavals when love was involved on both sides. I see sentences that start with "I do want to be with you/love you" and then hit "but" and read them differently. I read them as "I do love/want you, but not enough to try". People can dress it up anyway they like, but I do feel that's the reality most of the time.

But I believe Love is the strongest feeling nothing can overcome it.

Mutual love yes to a point. Then again how many people split up every day even though there may be love there? It's a very strong and precious feeling, but it's also quite delicate too. And that's when it's mutual. If it's mostly one sided? It's a very weak feeling except for the one feeling it the most.

And I seen her today also when I was out with my two friends, which were girls. It seemed so awkward. Texting I can deal with because I don't have to show emotion on my face. But in person its so much harder.

Yes and it will be. Only time and time apart will make this lessen, to the point where you won't feel it at all and only see her as a pleasant and not so pleasant memory. You're right in the storm now and you can't, won't and actually don't want to believe that, but trust me that day will come. The quickest way to bring that day closer is to remove her from your life until that happens.

LegacyUser · 27-09-2009 5:11pm

Your 100% I would be saying everything the same as you are Wibbs if I wasn't in this position. I feel this way because I'm attatched.

I'm leaving her more up to the friendship thing. If she wants to text me i'll text back, but I tend not to start the conversation, which usually develops with me wanting her back. But I've decided from today that Im done with that. I'll get over her. I'll just wb to her if she text's me.

I promised here I'll always be there for her when shes in trouble or needs somebody to talk to. I will stand by that.

Again Wibbs your advice is much appreicated sir

Wibbs · 27-09-2009 5:15pm

Fair play and that's a start. I would move it up to not replying as soon as you can though. Tell her in as nice as way as poss, that you don't want contact or to be "just friends". If she pushes you, then that should tell you that she's only thinking of herself.

LegacyUser · 27-09-2009 6:44pm

I told her before I needed time to think about being friends and she completely understood that. She gave me as much time as I need. Then I realise that it hurts just as much not talking to her

Wagon · 27-09-2009 10:16pm

Randomhelp wrote: »

I told her before I needed time to think about being friends and she completely understood that. She gave me as much time as I need. Then I realise that it hurts just as much not talking to her

In the short term it does, but believe me it gets a lot worse down the line when she moves on faster. And she will (if she hasn't already) because she's the one who broke up.

While it may seem like a really hard thing to do, id cut contact for good. From what i can see you still have plenty of strong feelings for her that aren't being reciprocated. If she wanted to be with you, she would be. Her wanting "independance" means she wants to be with other people, or just have the fun minus the relationship. Horrible thought i know, but it's a very real possibility. Staying in touch with her means you will hear about these things and it'll make you feel a lot worse then you are now.

Don't feel bad if you do cut contact. She ended the relationship and what she might not realise is that everything ends, including you being there for her. This is her choice and she has to live with it.

Wibbs · 27-09-2009 10:22pm

Wagon wrote: »

Don't feel bad if you do cut contact. She ended the relationship and what she might not realise is that everything ends, including you being there for her. This is her choice and she has to live with it.

Quoted for truth and good advice.

Tar.Aldarion · 27-09-2009 10:24pm

Wibbs wrote: »

Well my feelings are pretty clear on this one. Lovers to friends is a downgrade. I don't do downgrades. Fine if it was a few snogs or a short term thing, but if the L word was used, no thanks. Too much intimacy has been shared and then you have to go to less? I value myself more.

I would never suggest "lets remain friends" to a woman I dumped in those circumstances. If I did my reasons would be selfish and they nearly always are, but dressed up in concern for the dumped. Basically I would want to drop the parts of the ex I disliked, but not to lose the parts of the ex I liked. Can you imagine if you were the one who wanted to split up and you had said to your ex, "look I don't like you as a personality and I can't see a future together, but is it OK if we keep shagging?. Same coin different side. I would want to have the freedom to get intimate with another, while keeping them around for friendship. I would want to make it seem less of a deal than it was to her, so I wouldn't feel as guilty. Nope. Too self centered for me anyway and it's not fair on them as they would hang on to any false hope(like you are I strongly suspect). I go on the principle that you're either in or you're out, just after a breakup.

Down the line, cool and great if we could be actual real mates, but only when she no longer carried a torch for me.

My advice is to be strong, scrape her off, stop contact until you've moved on. Otherwise it'll only prolong your misery. Fine if your a masochist, but not so good long term. Looking back I would say, for me anyway, contact was mostly out of emotional habit. Not always but mostly. The funny thing is when I was the dumped, when I did get over them, I actually didn't want them as friends. Mostly because I saw parts in them I didn't value in a mate.

Now before she or others throw the "ah but why shouldn't you/it's the mature thing to do/maybe she really values you as a mate" at you, grandmaster in another thread here put it bloody brilliantly. You wanted to be her BF, she didn't want you to be her BF, she chose to leave and that's fine. That's her prerogative and dead right if she felt it wasnt working(ditto if it had been you who called time). She, nor anyone else gets to chose how you decide and if you decide you don't want that, well apply the same reasoning she did in leaving the relationship.

If you want to heal and move on faster move on from her. my 2 cents anyway.

Great post Wibbs, youa re in my mind.

I told her before I needed time to think about being friends and she completely understood that. She gave me as much time as I need. Then I realise that it hurts just as much not talking to her

At first it does, I'd even say it feels worse. Give it some time, a couple of months, have fun with your friends if you can, anything to get bakc on track.
You will feel happy much faster. You are jsut hurting yourself contacting her. I can't break contact completely with some people, I know it's hard, just keep it to a minimum, and work towards it.

metrovelvet · 27-09-2009 10:49pm

I just thought about this a bit more.

I know of one person is friends with a number of his ex's and the thing the ex all have in common is a masochistic streak, whether literaly in the spanking sense, or in the fuzzier emotional sense.

The other people I know who are "friends" with their exes are more complex people who are very comfortable with ambiguity, or in fact the relationship hasnt actualised its potential and there is still something there, which is laying dormant, but in these cases its not a case of dumped or dumpee, but of hills and valleys and they were ambiguous unclassifiable relationships to begin with, you know those European film type of relationships.

LegacyUser · 28-09-2009 9:38am

Oh shes very confusing:S We were talking online last night. Everything seemed ok. She said she had to go. So me being nice I said ''Text me later if you want then'' yada yada yada. She was like ''Yeh k''

Voila No text... And I try to be a nice person><

Wibbs · 28-09-2009 12:15pm

What do you want from this? That IMHO is the simple question.

As for the convo last night? You ask her to txt if she wants and she didn't. So? It's not a question of being "nice" either. IMHO one shouldn't offer something expecting or in your case hoping for a return. A genuine offer is not particularly conditional.

The confusion you speak of I don't see either. You had a nice convo. End of IMHO. The confusion is more on your side. That confusion alone is why I don't do the friends downgrade after a big breakup. Too many hopes, expectations and "confusion".

You have to accept that the relationship you had is gone. Unlikely to return. Even if you did get back together it would have to be a new relationship. You as the dumpee are now in limbo. You know what you want and aren't getting it and every thing she says or does you're latching onto that as either something to prove to yourself there's something there(the fact she's still in contact), or interpreting it as a bad thing and a slight on you(the non txt thing last night). She on the other hand also knows what she wants and doesn't want but she's getting it, so she's getting the better part of the deal. It's an unbalanced situation.

I still think you need to detach. The longer this goes on the more you'll get stagnated in the situation. The emotionally weaker you'll become and the more you lose the power over your own emotional life.

Short answer; You want to be her lover, not a mate. She doesn't. She's getting her wish by your continued involvement, you're not and won't. Scrape her off nicely. Move on. Which BTW and if it helps you do this, is your best chance of getting her back if there's any chance there at all.

metrovelvet · 28-09-2009 12:49pm

Too bad they dont make nicotene patches for break ups. You have to break the addiction OP.

Saying "call me later if you like" but meaning "Id really like to hear from you but if I dont I'll be really dissappointed and confused" is not being "nice".

Wibbs · 28-09-2009 1:32pm

I'd agree with MV. IMHO while we all attach and should to others, all too often a lot of pain is caused by an unhealthy attachment and that's when it becomes "addictive". Love is a bugger for that. It's not too unlike a drug at all. When you get your first fix, it's one helluva high and you want to increase the dosage and keep the drug running as long as possible. That's all good when it's healthy and reciprocated.

It stops being healthy when it's not equal. Whether that is when people are stuck in a toxic relationship or where like the OP, one has left. In the latter case you get major withdrawal symptoms on top of the emotional and sexual rejection of you as a person. So the more attached person, especially the more naturally emotionally needy person runs after the "drug supply". Like a smoker who has run out of ciggies will take a drag off a butt to get their fix. The dumper is coming down off the high and isn't as addicted anymore or they're getting high off another supplier so it's much easier for them.

Ok rambling guff above but it may help to see it as a drug withdrawal. How do get over this drug? Same as others I'd say. Cold turkey. So you cut contact. Replacement. Get back into your life. Start something new. Gym, new career, study, take up a new hobby or pursuit, restart your social life etc. The usual advice people give. I would also say that the pangs you get from time to time should be seen in a different way. They're the sign that the "drug" is leaving your body.

These pangs are the painful steps you need to take to start a better life for you.

Wagon · 28-09-2009 1:49pm

Randomhelp wrote: »

Oh shes very confusing:S We were talking online last night. Everything seemed ok. She said she had to go. So me being nice I said ''Text me later if you want then'' yada yada yada. She was like ''Yeh k''

Voila No text... And I try to be a nice person><

This will probably be an absolute kick in the bollocks (sorry in advance mate

) but the sad thing is that she might not be interested in an actual friendship. What i can see from this is she simply wants to remain friends so she can ease her own guilt of hurting you when ye broke up and also, for you to be the emotional crutch when things are difficult for her and she needs someone to talk to.

She'll possibly be in touch with you soon enough when she might have a fight at home, stressed out with college/work, problems wih friends...stuff like that. And then, when you support her she's gone again. This carries on long enough and then you'll be getting phone calls about how the new boyfriend treats her badly etc... Not nice and not your problem.

If you are still pining after her you need to cut contact. It doesn't have to be forever though. If you feel you want to get back in touch with her in the future when you are completely over her, then maybe a friendship can work. But because you're the dumped party, it's completely your decision if you want that or not.

Wibbs · 28-09-2009 2:01pm

Wagon wrote: »

This will probably be an absolute kick in the bollocks (sorry in advance mate ) but the sad thing is that she might not be interested in an actual friendship. What i can see from this is she simply wants to remain friends so she can ease her own guilt of hurting you when ye broke up and also, for you to be the emotional crutch when things are difficult for her and she needs someone to talk to.

+1. in my experience this is usually exactly the case. Not always, but usually.

it's completely your decision if you want that or not.

Very much so. People often forget how much raw power they have and control over their emotional destiny they have. Put it this way, you can't influence her. You may think you can and you may get little feedback "signs" where you think you are, but it's rarely the case. You CAN influence yourself though. More than you know and more than most do.

hollis12 · 28-09-2009 3:17pm

Wibbs wrote: »

I'd agree with MV. IMHO while we all attach and should to others, all too often a lot of pain is caused by an unhealthy attachment and that's when it becomes "addictive". Love is a bugger for that. It's not too unlike a drug at all. When you get your first fix, it's one helluva high and you want to increase the dosage and keep the drug running as long as possible. That's all good when it's healthy and reciprocated.

It stops being healthy when it's not equal. Whether that is when people are stuck in a toxic relationship or where like the OP, one has left. In the latter case you get major withdrawal symptoms on top of the emotional and sexual rejection of you as a person. So the more attached person, especially the more naturally emotionally needy person runs after the "drug supply". Like a smoker who has run out of ciggies will take a drag off a butt to get their fix. The dumper is coming down off the high and isn't as addicted anymore or they're getting high off another supplier so it's much easier for them.

Ok rambling guff above but it may help to see it as a drug withdrawal. How do get over this drug? Same as others I'd say. Cold turkey. So you cut contact. Replacement. Get back into your life. Start something new. Gym, new career, study, take up a new hobby or pursuit, restart your social life etc. The usual advice people give. I would also say that the pangs you get from time to time should be seen in a different way. They're the sign that the "drug" is leaving your body.

These pangs are the painful steps you need to take to start a better life for you.

very true man i studied psychology for years and some stuff like what you metioned is too taboo to be regulary examined but thats it emotional needy people look to others for aproval while all they really need is to aprove of themselves first.

LegacyUser · 28-09-2009 3:42pm

Thanks for all the help guys. Everytime I feel in ''need'' of texting her I shall look back on all the comments and get through it. Hopefully it will help.

But as I was so in love my main priorty was her happiness before mine. Not as far as ''whipped'' though. I just wanted her to be happy as it was/is important to me. I don't like hurting people or letting people down as its a feeling I personally hate myself.

I'm latching on to things which arn't really there thats 100% correct. False hope.

If she text's me so be it. I might reply I might not. Depending on my mood and If or not weather I want to.

Must be honest though, the worst feeling in the world is quiet possibly wondering what shes thinking and what she wants and what she is telling her friends. But I tend to try and brush that aside and get over it and think ''shes not that type of person'' which I dont think she is.

She is a very defensive and confusing person who was hurt before and ''doesn't want to get hurt again'' her excuse(not reason) for not wanting to get back into the relationship.

shellyboo · 28-09-2009 3:54pm

Randomhelp wrote: »

She is a very defensive and confusing person who was hurt before and ''doesn't want to get hurt again'' her excuse(not reason) for not wanting to get back into the relationship.

Horrible as this is, "I don't want to get hurt again" translates directly to "you're not worth the risk of me getting hurt".

Think about it - if you thought you had a chance of something great with someone, would you let anything stop you being with them? People climb over real-life hurdles, kids, illness, distance to be with the person they want. To deny a relationship for somethings as intangible as fear means you couldn't possibly be all that into the person.

Harsh, but true.

LegacyUser · 28-09-2009 4:35pm

Harsh is the best way to be to me personnally tbh. Only reason I came to boards because people do not know me ''personally'' therefore they can be as harsh and honest as they like. It's much better.

I'm proud seen her online on msn and didn't say Hello. Little progress but baby steps:)

LegacyUser · 28-09-2009 5:07pm

randomhelp i know exactly what you are going through, my ex left me after nearly 6years together and i let her string me along and mess me around.

she initially wanted "space" and i tried to give it to her, i was like a sick puppy the way i waited on her every text , and tried to arrange meet ups for any excuse, i wanted so badly to get back with the person i thought was my soul mate. 6 mths later she tells me that she wont be coming back and within a month shes sleeping with someone else.

i got the whole lets be friends shi te and was told on 2 occasions that i was still in with a chance (before the new man was on the scene), all i was was a fall back guy, for your own good you need to cut all ties , by all means tell her that you find it hard to be just friends and that you need to go NC.

during the "space" 6 months i got told we couldnt meet up because she had plans, and then found out her plans was just a lie in, we also arranged to meet up and she never showed up -- she knew that she had planned something but " couldnt for the life of her remember what it was".

randomhelp if you feel bad now , how will you feel when there is a new man on the scene, i know that when my ex appeared at my workplace with her new man to "drop off some things" i felt like shi te, it was a total low for me.

so in short avoid my mistakes, put yourself first and cut all ties and look after yourself. you cant change the way she feels about you but you have control over your actions.
if i had it all over again i would have given her 4-6 weeks of proper space and then if she didnt come back i would cut all ties.

it took me ages to get over her, and it was because i wouldnt go cold turkey, trust me its the best way.

LegacyUser · 28-09-2009 5:59pm

Yup I did the whole ''space'' thing for a while to absolutly killed me. Everyday hurting me. Every minute checking my phone.

On another bonus got a girls number today:) Nothing serious of course but somthing to take my mind of the ex. The girls number I got to day is amazing looking and we got on well so:)

metrovelvet · 28-09-2009 7:16pm

This is what I think you should do. Everytime you get the urge to call or text her. Put 3E in a pot and at the end of the week treat yourself with the money and reward yourself for NOT calling or texting.

the other thing you can do is in your contacts list change her number to yours, so if you do text or call, it comes back to you.

G-Money · 28-09-2009 7:28pm

I agree completely with the no contact thing. It's the only way to do it.

I was hurt badly by a girl towards the end of last year and even now it still bugs me the way it worked out. I told her that I needed to cut off contact for a while but she'd occasionally send me text messages, or messages on Facebook or on email. It got to the point where I didn't want to see an email from her as it would make me feel sick. I also didn't want to keep her on Facebook as I knew I'd be tempted to check her page and I'd be gutted when I found out she'd started seeing someone (which she basically had anyway).

So to try and make things easier, I deleted her number (although stupidly I can still remember it). I closed my Facebook account and opened a new one. I set the options so she couldn't see my pic if she did a search for me. I knew if I just deleted her off my friends list she'd just be wondering and asking why I did that and that was going to lead off into a whole long winded painful conversation. I also went and deleted and closed down my email account. This was a fairly big step as this was her main way of contacting me. I deleted all her mails and her details, backed up my email and closed my account. I couldn't tell you the relief at getting a new email address that she didn't have and not having to worry about seeing an email from her.

I also came very very close to changing my phone number. I'd been thinking about it for a while and I was drunk one night and I'd went as far as taking the sim card out of the phone and was about 5 seconds away from snapping it in two and making up some excuse to my friends about why I had a new number. Even now, I have two other numbers that I could use and I still occasionally think about changing my number. However she hasn't been in touch since March (thank f***) and I know I will never initiate contact with her so for the time being I don't need to change my number. However there are times I think about doing it as I wonder is the reason I haven't changed my number because I'm secretly hoping she gets in touch so I can get the satisfaction of deleting her text and not responding.

But anyway. I definitely recommend no contact. I don't think you've anything to lose by cutting this girl off. I'd only recommend staying in contact if you want your heart repeatedly broken.

I also have a theory that when a girl ends a relationship/shoots a guy down for whatever reason, she always f***s someone else within 1 month. I'm assuming you don't want to be hearing that from her so get away while you can.

LegacyUser · 28-09-2009 8:29pm

Would it be wrong to say I still her in my life?:( Or does that feeling fade? Does love fade? Never felt it before so clueless

dsmythy · 28-09-2009 8:42pm

Randomhelp wrote: »

Thanks for all the help guys. Everytime I feel in ''need'' of texting her I shall look back on all the comments and get through it. Hopefully it will help.

Another person here going through similar. It seems society is littered with people like us learning to get over others.

I definitely recommend returning to this thread and others like it and reading through some of the advice from Wibbs and Co. again whenever you get that pang in your chest or are on the verge of breaking your self-enforced exile from the person too soon. I find it really helps me. Good luck man.

metrovelvet · 28-09-2009 8:53pm

It might fade it might not. But if it doesnt you'll just have to learn to live with it. A big part of love is acceptance. If you love her accept her decision.

G-Money · 28-09-2009 8:56pm

One thing that I find that helps me which might not be healthy, but is certainly effective is to think to myself "I bet she's not there pining over me. I bet she's off out with some other guy and not even giving me a 2nd thought".

I use that when I find myself sort of wanting a girl but feeling rejected. I use the anger/motivation that creates to go think of other things.

LegacyUser · 29-09-2009 12:01pm

Unfortunetly I cannot think like that Grandmaster as I have a tendtency to lose my temper and punch walls and whatnot:( Still have no contact with her today. But still thinking about her every minute:(

Wibbs · 29-09-2009 1:17pm

Randomhelp wrote: »

Unfortunetly I cannot think like that Grandmaster as I have a tendtency to lose my temper and punch walls and whatnot:(

Well OK you may be saying this because you're in an emotional crazy time at the moment, but if this is a pattern with you you should nip that in the bud for a start. Get help to do so if you need it.

If you let your emotions get the better of you to that extreme it's not healthy and it's certainly not attractive. If being overly needy is kryptonite to female desire, getting overly emotional to the point of lashing out is like shooting desire in the face with a howitzer(unless the woman herself has issues and you really don't want to end up with someone like that).

I am NOT saying a man has to be some stoic unemotional boor, or always look like an easter island statue with constipation, but he should show some control over himself.

Lashing out when it's defo not required, shows insecurity, lack of confidence in yourself as a man, neediness, aggressive tendencies, fear and a host of other things. Boys may lash out at all sorts, men stay focused on what is important and act accordingly. Emotionally healthy women are very good at spotting traits like this. In a lot of ways they have to be as otherwise they can get into trouble, if they end up with a twitchy man child.

Still have no contact with her today. But still thinking about her every minute:(

Of course you are and this is natural. If we take the drug analogy the withdrawal symptoms are still running strong. IMHO these symptoms and thoughts are little to do with love. Love has to be running between two people. Otherwise it's not love, merely a one sided fallacy of love. IMHO These feelings are to do with feelings of rejection, emotional panic and the aforementioned love drug vibe. These things are usually worse if you have relied on a relationship to "fix" you. The loss of that brings you even more panic and feelings of rejection. Being dumped always hurts, even if you're the most confident man on earth, but it will hurt you a lot less if you're together in your own head.

This will pass. Be sure of that.

LegacyUser · 29-09-2009 3:36pm

Aye, I got over the stage of punching walls etc. I did it once recently when I was drunk and received a text from the ex. First time in nearly 3 years. I got help for it:).

Think the drug analogy is the best way to look at it for me. And what would you recommend I do if in a few weeks or days or months she wants to get back and I'm still crazy about her?:S

Wibbs · 29-09-2009 4:53pm

Think about the hassle she's caused you in the interim, think about how you're life has moved on for you(hopefully) in the interim, think about why she's asking to come back. Are these the right reasons or has she been dumped/lost interest in a rebound or the single life. If it's for good reasons maybe it's worth a shot, but she has to do all the running as she made the decision in the first place IMH.

LegacyUser · 29-09-2009 6:03pm

I caved in. Was speaking to her on msn for a little awhile. Just random chat. I was also showing that I ''wasn't really interested'' in talking to her.Then when she was going off line I got a I'll text you later;)

Not getting my hopes up. Just dont understand the benefit of that winky face or why she did it...

G-Money · 29-09-2009 7:04pm

Just be careful dude. She could very well be stringing you along or just keeping you hanging there until she meets someone else. I kind of think it's unfair for someone to end a relationship yet expect the other person to act as if they're perfectly ok and sit around while they watch the other person waltz off into the sunset with someone else. Maybe she's got a bit lonely and hasn't met someone else as quickly as she hoped so she's getting in touch with you because "she misses you". That often just translates into "I miss the attention and how it makes me feel". Often it's not the person they miss.

Some girls will keep a guy hanging around just for the ego boost or so that they can "feel attractive". It reminds me a little of some sort of gambling game or slot machine. You keep putting money in and occasionally you will get a small win but often it won't cover your expenditure, but it will be enough to keep you spending. But in this case the money is your emotions and feelings. You'll keep investing, hoping that if you are just patient, eventually you will win big. Sometimes it happens, often it doesn't. As I've said before, if someone likes you, you shouldn't have to convince them of it. It shouldn't be like a barrister trying to convince a jury.

If you two aren't together there's probably a good reason. I know it's torture for you but unfortunately you just have to take it on the chin. One thing that might help you is to think back to other girls you were head over heels for in the past. I bet you aren't still wishing you were with them now. It will be the same with this girl but I understand that it's very hard for you to imagine that. It's very easy to sit there and say "oh this one is different, she said this and said that, or we went through this and went through that and the people on boards don't know about it." That may be true but I'm pretty sure 99% of the people who post similar stories on here would say the same thing and I often think it doesn't work out in the end.

When you are too close to something you can't see it objectively. I think that's how it is for you now. It's how I've been myself in the past. It will only be a while in the future you'll look back and think "Jeez, why did I put myself through that and not just tell her no". I've been in the situation where I was getting messed around and I didn't really see it at the time and now I think back and say to myself "FFS, why didn't you just say good luck and let that be the end of it". Unfortunately hope often outweighs common sense, especially with affairs of the heart.

I don't think you should start contacting her again but if for some reason you do, keep it friendly and polite but don't let thoughts of "ohhh maybe it might work out" start to seep back into your brain. The second you do, you'll start communicating that to her and she'll start pulling away again.

You've probably made some progress dude, don't ruin it. You are mid way through your 12 step program, don't head to the off license now...

Good luck.

hollis12 · 29-09-2009 7:07pm

the only thing i can add to this is focus on your own life and potential, see the things coming your way and recognize your own intrinsic worth outside of a relationship.

Wibbs · 29-09-2009 7:43pm

Randomhelp wrote: »

I caved in.

It's your life OP and of course we dont know the exact background, but every time you cave in it's like a smoker taking a furtive drag from a mate.

Was speaking to her on msn for a little awhile. Just random chat. I was also showing that I ''wasn't really interested'' in talking to her.

Look IMHO and IME as a general thing women are very similar to men at spotting the opposite sex's interest at first. Often not very, but a little better than guys. But they can be especially good at spotting an exes interest. Way better than most men. I;ve seen this with my woman mates. She knows youre interested. Maybe subconsciously but she knows. I'd put money on it.

Then when she was going off line I got a I'll text you later;)

Which in her experience keeps you onside or she just typed

for little reason than to be nice.

Not getting my hopes up. Just dont understand the benefit of that winky face or why she did it...

Yes you are. I can tell you are and I didnt go out with you. I would again put good money if I read your IM convo I'd spot it too.

Lets imagine we're all wrong and she is interested in trying again. OK how do you translte that interest into reality and not just little scraps? By backing off, having a life, being busy and by being actually not really interested until she gives you a concrete reason to be. That's the thing. You need a concrete reason to be or you're just blowing smoke up your own bum. What would be a concrete reason? She says out straight, maybe "I made a mistake, can we meet up/talk about it?". She asks to meet for a date type situation. Real concrete? She makes a play physically for you and follows that through(big one as it shows she's still attracted to you sexually). Not hugs and a peck on the cheek. She wants to go out with you and does. Bascically when she's acting like your romantic partner or os making a effort to be that, then it's worth your time. Otherwise it's not and you may well clutch at straws until that fateful day when she tells you "I've met someone else

" and that's the smiley that will really hit home. Then you'll freak, maybe at her and she'll come back to you with "but I thought we were friends" and she'll be right as you were acting like one.

My 2 cents and sorry for being harsh and I truly hope I'm very wrong.

LegacyUser · 29-09-2009 8:07pm

I dont think shes the type of girl to ''string'' me along. But I suppose everyboyd thinks that. The background of the relationship was mainly we broke up becasue rumors went around saying I cheated on her, and the people had ''hard '' evidence. I was alone with my mate and people got the wrong idea.. But I know what people are going to say '' If she loved you , she would of believed you'' but I understand were shes coming from.

I feel like im defending her. When I dont mean to. But I like too look at things from different points of view.

Didn't hear anything from her yet. Neither happy or sad. Just the same.

hollis12 · 29-09-2009 8:23pm

well if your analyzing every emoticon it does sound like your getting your hopes up, and mate every person girl or boy is the type to string ppl on, its a ego booster.

G-Money · 29-09-2009 8:32pm

You say the reason you can't be together are because of rumours you cheated on her. Based on what you've said, it sounds like you didn't cheat on her but she's using that as an excuse not to go out with you.

It's a bit weird that she's letting rumours stop you two going out, especially if you've been honest with her and didn't cheat. It sounds to me dude like she was looking for an excuse and that suited her nicely. Rather than just breaking it off completely, she used that as a way out.

As Wibbs has said I think she's throwing you scraps to keep you interested but I doubt she's got any real intentions of letting anything happen. Most likely she will throw you a few more scraps, you'll stay interested, there will be a big heart to heart where she'll pull back slightly but not enough that you give up hope. Then in a few weeks she'll say something like "Something happened last night" or "I met someone". At that point you'll feel like curling up into a ball in a dark corner for a few weeks after you finish puking your guts up at the pain of it all.

Like I've said, no-one should have to convince someone to go out with them, especially if that other person supposedly likes them. I know sometimes there's a bit of a chase at the start, but there's a chase then there's a wild goose chase. I feel like you are on the latter I'm sorry to say.

Been there, done that, have the scars to prove it too.

LegacyUser · 30-09-2009 9:47am

randomhelp i dont think that she is conciously stringing you along , but the results are the same, she is using this time to ease back from you slowly, she prob doesnt mean to hurt you but the damage will be done anyway.

i too looked at every message for clues, hope etc, her just been polite was taken as undying love. i wanted to stay in touch because i felt that if i let her go she def wouldnt come back.

heres what will happen.

break up lets be friends

pain

friendship wains

pain

new boyfriend

real pain

thoughts of her sleeping with her new boyfriend

more real pain

she drifts out of your life completley ----pain then acceptance.

first one has already happened, if you want continue on and take the rest or take all of our advise and skip to the end. tell her NC unless its reconciliation and then get on with your life.

been there done that now i know better, believe me that even though you think your situation is different to mine and the others ---its not.

what age are you and how long are you together? it sounds like GIGS to me. id guess at 24-25?

Wibbs · 30-09-2009 12:59pm

IMHO I think as a pretty good general rule this situation and also the dreaded friendzone(even the "why don't women go for me/go off me suddenly) boils down to this; a woman will not be attracted to a man if she feels he's not her romantic equal.

Look at women really in love with the men in their lives. 99% of them look up to the guy in a general way. They may think he's a bit of an eejit at times but in general they look up to him or look at him eye to eye as a good partner to share her life with.

If when you meet a woman you let her do all the running and bribe her to be attracted to you she won't be, or it won't last long. She sees you as unequal to her.

If you deny your romantic urges for a woman and pretend to be her friend, she won't be attracted to you either. She sees you as unequal and dishonest.

If you get past all that and she figures you're worth a chance and you do get to go out with her then push her for reassurance all the time, get jealous or possessive of her and let her do all the running, she'll see you as unequal.

This will build up until the day comes when she looks at you differently(not romantically) and she dumps you, that decision means she has made up her mind after trying and sees you now as unequal.

Personally? In the majority of cases where I was dumped from a longtermer, especially for other guys it was simply because the other guys were more their equal or they saw them as more of a potential. They saw them as more of man than me at the time. That was my issue the majority of the time. Usually I failed the relationship. They didn't. They may not have worked hard enough or whatever, but all too often I looked for excuses I thought of at the time(how dare she! I loved her and she betrayed me! How could she leave! I did nothing wrong! etc). They were mostly if not all excuses for my failures as a man and an equal partner and I take full responsibility for my shortcomings. Their own shortcomings were their own to deal with. I can only ever look to mine. I dont mean this in a self flagellating way either. I looked to myself and saw where I needed to change and took steps to do so. Each one of them has taught me a valuable lesson.

So now the dumped guy in emotional panic, pushes even more(if he did this in the relationship this copperfastens her resolve that she's made the right decision), over thinks every little "sign" and hangs on to the notion of "friendship"(he's now doing friendzone in reverse) he'll keep going further down in her eyes on the romantic equality front.

It's even harder to get out of this than the guy who regularly screws up on the first date. At least there she doesn't know him and he can hopefully change with the next woman. It's nearly as hard as getting out of friendzone, the only advantage with the ex is that at some point she was attracted to him and was willing to give it a chance.

So OP what do you do? Stop being her unequal. Stop hanging on to scraps. Stop contact if you cant keep in contact with her without going off on emotional navel gazing. Realise that she's not the only woman in the world that is right for you. Indeed if you are generally insecure in relationships or with women the chances are she's defo not the right woman for you as you'll tend to pick badly in the first place. Move on. Build a better you for you. Improve yourself. Get fitter, get involved in other social outlets, drive your career harder etc. Be an equal man to yourself. If you do that then the next time she bumps into you and really sees that she may be attracted to you again. In any case it shouldn't matter and it won't if you get to that stage, because you will be the one in control of what you want and if you still think she's the right one for you(prob not) then fine and that goes for any other woman.

My 2 cents anyway.

LegacyUser · 30-09-2009 7:54pm

As others have said the best thing to do is to cut all contact with her. It is hard, I know, but in the long run it's for the best. The longer you two remain "friends" the harder it is on you. I think it's very hard to be proper friends with someone in this kind of situation. I've been in this position myself. I didn't walk away when I should have and despite advice from pretty much everyone I knew I stayed friends with the ex for a long time. All the time I still loved him very much but he just didn't feel the same about me. He didn't want to get back with me and I really wanted things to work with him. I was just setting myself up for a fall. I got more and more hurt. Suddenly I realised that I just couldn't do it anymore. I needed to cut all contact even though it was something that I really didn't want to do but I had to. I knew he was someone I still wanted in my life but I couldn't be friends with him while I had still had feelings for him, it just wasn't gonna work.

I know it seems hard but cutting all contact really is the best thing to do. It'll get easier but you need to be strong and ride out the storm. You will come out the other side eventually. Maybe you two can be friends in the future but not now

LegacyUser · 01-10-2009 9:26pm

Offical cut all contact today.. Hurts. Alot;(

metrovelvet · 01-10-2009 10:05pm

There is no reward without pain.

Wibbs · 01-10-2009 10:11pm

It will, but painful as this may be for you now, this is the best step you could have taken. Better than the limbo you were in. It's a step forward not back. This pain will pass. It may take longer than you hope, but it'll be shorter than you think.

I've been there, where you are. The high of that love you felt is replaced by the low of where you are now. Most men have been in that situation and any reading this know what you're feeling and many have jumped in to advise and support you. We don't generally talk about it. Of course we don't we're men, you don't talk about it(Guess what, sometimes that's good too. Talk is cheap if it's repeated without action). You try to fix it, or ignore it or logic it out or seek solace in getting píssed with your mates or throwing the leg over random women, but that only distracts for a while. Or we only talk when we're drunk and our mates may say "ah sure plenty of fish in the sea" and "you'll be alright it'll pass". And still it hurts. And you know they're right. Dead right, but you can't see that yet, but that will pass too.

It can hurt you more than you thought possible. When it's happened to me it shocked me how much. I have envied men who have been in love loadsa times as it's only happened the twice for me, but then I think of the pain of the loss of that and I envy them no more I can tell you. When it's happened to me? I was fine to the world, but I was numb inside and my heart felt heavy and broken, actually broken. I couldn't explain it away no matter how hard I tried. Logic couldn't help me. Explanations couldn't help me. Time helped me though. Realising the real reasons helped me. Realising that we're all a bit fcuked up and we all make mistakes, but we can learn. That really helped me.

Helping myself to be a better man for me helped me. Doing that helped me. All the talk in the world isn't worth jack shít unless you do something about it. Even when you don't want to. Especially when you don't want to. As Winston Churchill said “If you are going through hell, keep fúcking* going.”

Those times you may feel like a failure or feel like a wuss, or you falter and call her, don't sweat them too much. It's a path well trodden by men before you and will be well trodden after you. Learn from it, get better from it. That's the trick. And you will and this will pass and this will make you a better man next time around and I'll tell you this the woman who gets that man will be damned glad she did, even if she has no clue how he got to be that way.

Keep strong and fair play to you for taking this step. If you take nada from my guff, take this. You did the right things and this pain will pass.

* that part was mine, I don't think he'd mind:D

kryogen · 02-10-2009 1:54am

as always i havent read the other posts so forgive me if you have moved passed the original point

you cannot go straight from being in a relationship to a friendship, it just doesnt work. the only chance you have of ever being just friends is total separation for a good length of time (until you have both totally moved on is just the minimum amount) then maybe you can be friends if you are both in a place in your lives where its what you want

to be honest i dont see why you want to be friends? its just too much hassle generally and it is rarely enough for one of the people involved. if the relationship ends, it normally ends for a good reason on someones part and that feeling of rejection by the other is sometimes too much to get over and have a real and meaningful friendship

LegacyUser · 02-10-2009 7:50am

Wibbs wrote: »

It will, but painful as this may be for you now, this is the best step you could have taken. Better than the limbo you were in. It's a step forward not back. This pain will pass. It may take longer than you hope, but it'll be shorter than you think.

I've been there, where you are. The high of that love you felt is replaced by the low of where you are now. Most men have been in that situation and any reading this know what you're feeling and many have jumped in to advise and support you. We don't generally talk about it. Of course we don't we're men, you don't talk about it(Guess what, sometimes that's good too. Talk is cheap if it's repeated without action). You try to fix it, or ignore it or logic it out or seek solace in getting píssed with your mates or throwing the leg over random women, but that only distracts for a while. Or we only talk when we're drunk and our mates may say "ah sure plenty of fish in the sea" and "you'll be alright it'll pass". And still it hurts. And you know they're right. Dead right, but you can't see that yet, but that will pass too.

It can hurt you more than you thought possible. When it's happened to me it shocked me how much. I have envied men who have been in love loadsa times as it's only happened the twice for me, but then I think of the pain of the loss of that and I envy them no more I can tell you. When it's happened to me? I was fine to the world, but I was numb inside and my heart felt heavy and broken, actually broken. I couldn't explain it away no matter how hard I tried. Logic couldn't help me. Explanations couldn't help me. Time helped me though. Realising the real reasons helped me. Realising that we're all a bit fcuked up and we all make mistakes, but we can learn. That really helped me.

Helping myself to be a better man for me helped me. Doing that helped me. All the talk in the world isn't worth jack shít unless you do something about it. Even when you don't want to. Especially when you don't want to. As Winston Churchill said “If you are going through hell, keep fúcking* going.”

Those times you may feel like a failure or feel like a wuss, or you falter and call her, don't sweat them too much. It's a path well trodden by men before you and will be well trodden after you. Learn from it, get better from it. That's the trick. And you will and this will pass and this will make you a better man next time around and I'll tell you this the woman who gets that man will be damned glad she did, even if she has no clue how he got to be that way.

Keep strong and fair play to you for taking this step. If you take nada from my guff, take this. You did the right things and this pain will pass.

* that part was mine, I don't think he'd mind:D

Excellant post, truely inspiring and I don't think this is too strong a compliment!!

At times like this it is really difficult to see the wood from the trees, but this too will pass, nothing in life is stagnent and I believe (even if I didn't a few months ago) that everything happens so that room is made for something else too take its (her) place.

I was in a similar place to were you are now, 5-6 months ago, i cracked a number of times and sent texts, called etc. trying to change her mind....it didn't work, of course it didn't looking back I hardly recognise the person saying what i said but at the time they seemed to make all the sense in the world....the attachment and emotions related to a partnership with another person are extremely strong,

"Love can make you craaaaaaazy"

Keep on keeping on fella, believe me you WILL look back and (if not laugh) at least smile!

hollis12 · 02-10-2009 8:12am

Randomhelp wrote: »

Offical cut all contact today.. Hurts. Alot;(

well done mate you did the right thing, also youll find out if she really likes you, sometimes when exs cut contact it makes them realize what they lost.

The whole ''friendship thing''

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