Should P.E. be an examinable subject??

thehamo

I was just thinking,

What with the levels of obesity in kids these days and lack of exercise being taken, my opinion is that p.e. should be an examinable subject with both theory and practice in school. I think that school is the one place that can tackle this problem, and by making sure that children are active every day will help decrease levels of obesity.

Ways it can be done are to give each child a fitness test and create a specific program for that person to help increase fitness levels. By tayloring the program to each individual, and giving the realistic goals, it does not creat an elitist system where only the really fit people do well. A very unfit person could have smaller goals but equally as hard to reach for them, thus both the fit and unfit can both come out wit the same grade.

For those of you who say, its not fair as some people just arent suited to exercise/sports etc I say boll*cks. They have legs they can walk. It doesnt have to be hard. Also, there are many people who just arent suited to Maths, languages, English the list goes on. Yet they still have to participate.

My two cents. Lets hear your opinions!

phasers

I have no balance or co-ordination, so I would fail. A bit unfair I think.

I doubt that the Dept of education would make walking an examinable subject.

Anyway, if your idea was used, fit people would pretend to be unfit so they'd have it a lot easier.

Risteard

I would agree with that. It would make P.E. a lot more effective and could also instil good habits into people that they would carry on later in life.

thehamo

Again, tell that to a Dyslexic child trying to read a history or maths book. They still have to do it.

Walking is not an examinable subject, its part of the program to get fit. Again it comes back down to each program tailored to each individual need. If they get there by walking then so be it. As long as they are getting their exercise. "Physical Education" is not about sport. Its about learning how your body works and how to keep it healthy through exercise and good diet.

MizzLolly

No. Don't be silly. Terrible idea. It's up to the parents to teach their kids how to live a healthy lifestyle. Examining how quick a kid can run in a state examination is a mental idea. Even for Ireland.

Schism

phasers wrote: »

Anyway, if your idea was used, fit people would pretend to be unfit so they'd have it a lot easier.

I'd disagree with this. That's a lazy way out and generally you'll find that people who put in the effort to get and stay fit are not.

Also I'd say there'd be a lot of competition with people trying to out do each other.

But then again you could be right, if the fit people didn't care about the P.E. class they might just cruise by.

hardCopy

I think it"s a great idea

But I don't think it's unfair to give fit people an advantage. Unfit people could have the option of Pass/Foundation level

dlofnep

No. Different people have different levels of fitness. Some people have asthma and what not. You cannot expect people to excel equally at physical fitness.

Jaeger 90

MizzLolly wrote: »

No. Don't be silly. Terrible idea. It's up to the parents to teach their kids how to live a healthy lifestyle. Examining how quick a kid can run in a state examination is a mental idea. Even for Ireland.

You could say that about education, of course it should be examinable, so many fat kids and deadbeat welfare parents with bad diets -

I mean theres an exam for fucking religion!!

People have different levels of intelligence aswell

chin_grin

PE being an examinable subject = survival of the fittest. I like where you're going with this Hitler OP.

TheZohanS

thehamo wrote: »

For those of you who say, its not fair as some people just arent suited to exercise/sports etc I say boll*cks. They have legs they can walk.

Not all students have.

phasers

thehamo wrote: »

Again, tell that to a Dyslexic child trying to read a history or maths book. They still have to do it.

Walking is not an examinable subject, its part of the program to get fit. Again it comes back down to each program tailored to each individual need. If they get there by walking then so be it. As long as they are getting their exercise. "Physical Education" is not about sport. Its about learning how your body works and how to keep it healthy through exercise and good diet.

Yes but a dyslexic child gets a scribe in exams and gets a lot of support. Will the school provide a personal trainer for those who struggle with sport? I doubt it.

Again, this system could easily be abused. To a student, school is about grades. A student is going to use their head and act a lot less fit than they are, so they will be guaranteed a good grade and can pass their "exams" with ease. I also think it would be a big strain on schools to have a structured program for every student, and expect staff to help and support them all at once.

MizzLolly

Jaeger 90 wrote: »

You could say that about education, of course it should be examinable, so many fat kids and deadbeat welfare parents with bad diets -

I mean theres an exam for fucking religion!!

People have different levels of intelligence aswell

No you couldn't say the same about education in general, where are you going with that?!

I wasn't examined in Religion.

Intelligence has nothing to do with fitness, again, I don't see where you're going with this.

Most schools already have PE classes in place. They also have football teams, hurling teams etc if a child wants to join. Making it a state examination is a pointless waste of money.

thehamo

if you read the original post, I said that they DONT have to excell equally in physical fitness. I mean lets get real, if a 15 year old kid is 18 stone (and I know some of them) it is highly unrealistic to say tey shoud be as fit as a regular soccer player etc. DEfinitely not. However, if you set them a realistic goal to reach a certain level of fitness specific to them and NO ONE ELSE, they can be examined on that. For example. He might not be able to walk a mile whithouth being out of breath. The aim is to be able to get him to walk 4/5 miles by the end of the program. This would be a great personal achievment for them. Its not about competition its about personal goals and attaining those goals.

phasers

Schism wrote: »

I'd disagree with this. That's a lazy way out and generally you'll find that people who put in the effort to get and stay fit are not.

Also I'd say there'd be a lot of competition with people trying to out do each other.

But then again you could be right, if the fit people didn't care about the P.E. class they might just cruise by.

I just think that at the end of the day people are gonna think about points, not showing off or being fit or anything. It's a school subject in their minds, the sport they do as a pastime (Which obviously a fit person would do) would be a different matter.

Anyway, in my old school it was seen as cooler if you slacked off in PE :pac:

not14talk

I did P.E. as an examinable subject at school, it was GCSE and did the exam a month or so before sitting my Leaving Cert. Had an written exam and a physical exam. Only about 6 of my year of ~80 students sat the exam.

P.E. was an option for us from 1st year straight up to 6th year, if you didnt pick P.E. you had to pick a sport to do after school.

I think it would be a good idea in theory, not exams as such, but a continuous assessment - you don't have to be good at anything but put full effort in and pass. I disagree with the way it is in America that you can fail if you can't run fast enough.

FruitLover

Well, it makes at least as much sense as having an exam on Irish, Art or Religion, so why not?

dlofnep wrote: »

You cannot expect people to excel equally at physical fitness.

I don't think anyone is really expected to 'excel' in state examinations TBH. The pass mark in the academic exams is 40% for Jaysus' sake!

35notout

So you could choose for leaving cert - Irish, English, Maths, Music and arts, Religious Education, Social and Scientific and PE

What the heck could you do with that - other than be employed by the Von Trappe family

kenon

35notout wrote: »

So you could choose for leaving cert - Irish, English, Maths, Music and arts, Religious Education, Social and Scientific and PE

What the heck could you do with that - other than be employed by the Von Trappe family

Who is going to employ you based on a subject you did in the leaving?

Also, to examine people on P.E, you could just measure an improvement in their fitness. Measure their fitness at the start and then measure their flexibility, stamina, strength at the end. Plus a written exam so they know how their body works and how to eat well etc.

dlofnep

FruitLover wrote: »

I don't think anyone is really expected to 'excel' in state examinations TBH. The pass mark in the academic exams is 40% for Jaysus' sake!

They are if trying to go to college.

Midnight_EG

My school had twice yearly fitness tests (beep test) from 1st year until 4th, but we dont do PE for 5th and 6th, shame, I miss football :L

Mark200

My PE teacher a few years ago told us that Ireland is slowly moving towards having PE as an examinable subject like most other EU countries, and that they've already started introducing a proper curriculum for it.

Not sure if it's true or not

Seillejet

Great idea. Possibly the best post I have seen in months OP. Could have the theory with nutrition etc. Could tackle problems like smoking, drinking, drugs as well.

Jesus Juice

I think there should be more PE classes a week,I mean how is one class of playing indoor soccer every week gonna benefit anyone??
They should at least make it an optional subject,or even call it Sports Science and have a theory side as well as a practical side.There is a lot of people I know who would thrive doing that,and it'd give people who arent the best academically but who are brilliant at sports the chance to do something they love the same as I do Biology and I love that.

jumpguy

I think it's a good idea. I don't think it'd make a good LC subject though...and should be a mandatory JC subject at a common level exactly like CSPE. A project could be done in which the candidate keeps a diary of his/her eating and exercise, keeps record of his/her weight and BMI for a month/2 weeks. At the end of the day the candidate is to record their thoughts about it, why they think they gained/lost weight, why they think the diary is useful or not, if they think their recording is accurate, did they enjoy whatever exercise they did. At the very end of the project they'd record what they learned, what they enjoyed most, and what they hated most, etc.
Then the written paper would be about diet and nutrition, fitness, physicality, abit like biology. Perhaps some basic first aid. The harmful effects of smoking, second-hand smoking, binge drinking, etc.

Like CSPE, the coursework (project) would be worth 60% and the written exam 40%. Examined at common level for the JC only. I think it's practical and definetly an innovative, creative (how the candidate thinks up exercises), relatively cheap, far-reaching, rewarding way to get teens interested in their physical well-being.

thehamo

I whole heartedly agree. I know a lot of people who always hated P.E. beacuse it was purely "here's a football, pick your own tems". Some people just cant play football its as simple as that. yet they could excell in other areas of sport/exercise, especially in the theory side of things. From my experience, people who start exercise programs become ingulfed in it and want to know all the details, and ins and outs of it.

**Timbuk2**

That is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.

I hated P.E. when I was in school. I had terrible co-ordination so I was dangerous to anyone around me, especially when playing basketball or equipped with a racket in tennis. However I was probably the fittest in the class - I regularly did 100km+ cycles and also triathlons, aquathons and even a half-ironman (before I even did my LC).

It is a terrible idea and it isn't a fair test of fitness - at all.

Earthhorse

I don't it should be an examinable subject but I do think a comprehensive Physical Education programme should be in place in all schools from Primary right up to the Leaving Cert. The course should cover:

• stretching
• warm-up
• exercise
• first aid
• cooking
• meditation (Yoga, Tai Chi)
• hygiene
• sexual education

We wouldn't need an exam in place for any of that to work.

Slugs

You are in school to learn. Why the hell should your physiology have anything to do with you learning. And as well as that what're they going to test you on. Your ability to run fast? And this tailoring to each individuals needs. If we had that, the Irish education system would not be the joke it already is. While I can understand the reasoning for it, the same way I understand the reasoning for Scholarships in the states, I think it doesn't serve any benificial purpose. If a person wants to stay fit, they'll stay fit, why wuold you bother trying to make them if they don't want to.

Jesus Juice

Slugs wrote: »

You are in school to learn. Why the hell should your physiology have anything to do with you learning. And as well as that what're they going to test you on. Your ability to run fast? And this tailoring to each individuals needs. If we had that, the Irish education system would not be the joke it already is. While I can understand the reasoning for it, the same way I understand the reasoning for Scholarships in the states, I think it doesn't serve any benificial purpose. If a person wants to stay fit, they'll stay fit, why wuold you bother trying to make them if they don't want to.

Because people are lazy,dont exercise anywhere else,get obese,develop health problems like diabetes,shorten their life and die early.

Excuse the government for caring about people

Slugs

Then if they want to do that, change the way the class is engineered. (poster before me addressed what P.E. Should be).

kenon

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

That is the most ridiculous idea I have ever heard.

I hated P.E. when I was in school. I had terrible co-ordination so I was dangerous to anyone around me, especially when playing basketball or equipped with a racket in tennis. However I was probably the fittest in the class - I regularly did 100km+ cycles and also triathlons, aquathons and even a half-ironman (before I even did my LC).

It is a terrible idea and it isn't a fair test of fitness - at all.

I think people are suggesting that P.E should be completely restructured and then made examinable. They arent suggesting that you would be graded on your badminton playing skills.

Slugs wrote: »

You are in school to learn. Why the hell should your physiology have anything to do with you learning. And as well as that what're they going to test you on. Your ability to run fast? And this tailoring to each individuals needs. If we had that, the Irish education system would not be the joke it already is. While I can understand the reasoning for it, the same way I understand the reasoning for Scholarships in the states, I think it doesn't serve any benificial purpose. If a person wants to stay fit, they'll stay fit, why wuold you bother trying to make them if they don't want to.

Its about teaching them how to live healthily and to stay fit. Again, I dont think people are suggesting that you be graded on running fast.

BaconZombie

phasers, I don;t know were your getting you info, but dyslexic DO NOT get extra support.

The only exception I got was been allowed to type my answers instead of writing it.
On the support side, I got nothing.

They did get have specialised teachers and lessons including a room {with top of line computers} that nobody else was allowed use for the three kids in the school with down syndrome.

phasers wrote: »

Yes but a dyslexic child gets a scribe in exams and gets a lot of support. Will the school provide a personal trainer for those who struggle with sport? I doubt it.

Again, this system could easily be abused. To a student, school is about grades. A student is going to use their head and act a lot less fit than they are, so they will be guaranteed a good grade and can pass their "exams" with ease. I also think it would be a big strain on schools to have a structured program for every student, and expect staff to help and support them all at once.

Slugs

thehamo wrote: »

I was just thinking,

What with the levels of obesity in kids these days and lack of exercise being taken, my opinion is that p.e. should be an examinable subject with both theory and practice in school. I think that school is the one place that can tackle this problem, and by making sure that children are active every day will help decrease levels of obesity.

Ways it can be done are to give each child a fitness test and create a specific program for that person to help increase fitness levels. By tayloring the program to each individual, and giving the realistic goals, it does not creat an elitist system where only the really fit people do well. A very unfit person could have smaller goals but equally as hard to reach for them, thus both the fit and unfit can both come out wit the same grade.

For those of you who say, its not fair as some people just arent suited to exercise/sports etc I say boll*cks. They have legs they can walk. It doesnt have to be hard. Also, there are many people who just arent suited to Maths, languages, English the list goes on. Yet they still have to participate.

My two cents. Lets hear your opinions!

OP's thoughts:

No mention of restructuring.



IF P.E. were examinable, it would have to be restructured completely. None of this "tailoring to people" Bs. It needs to hone on the important aspect of human fitness.

*Health and Hygiene
*Sex Education (Needs a complete readjustment)
*Dietary and cooking (Tied in with Home Ec, if P.E. was examinable, H.E. should be compulsory)
Etc etc. I know I'm just repeating someone else's points (I think poster before my first post).

Either way, either restructure, or don't bring up.

And one thing needs to change especially. This "if you're well enough to be in school, you're well enough to do P.E." mentality that my P.E. teacher maintains.

kenon

Slugs wrote: »

OP's thoughts:

No mention of restructuring.

IF P.E. were examinable, it would have to be restructured completely. None of this "tailoring to people" Bs. It needs to hone on the important aspect of human fitness.

The OP suggested tailoring to people. That would be a restructure, even if you dont agree with it.

Ferris_Bueller

Think its a brilliant idea, agree that it should be made compulsary up to Junior Cert level and then optional for the Leaving. There are plenty of kids in schools who hate certain subjects which they do for the Leaving Cert and I'm sure if P.E was made an exam subject it would be a great option for people who aren't so academically gifted or who are considering taking up a career with sports after school. Plenty of people on here saying it wouldn't be fair for those who dislike it but if it was made optional they wouldn't have to participate.

Epic Tissue

Make it optional and then there is no problem. Lots of people would love to do it.

Dave!

Get rid of the 'educational' part of it and just get the kids to take part in physical activity/sport once or twice a week.

They started getting anal about PE as an academic subject in my school in 5th year, and we'd have weeks where PE class would be composed of sitting in a classroom talking about health and fitness, rather than running around and actually being active -- meanwhile most of the students didn't take much exercise besides PE.

Let some other subject cover the academic side of fitness, and leave an hour or two a week for actual physical activity.

m5ex9oqjawdg2i

FAt kids instant fail...

No it should not be. Why would you make an exam out of it? How would you grade it etc etc?

It's very important for education, but don't make exams out of it...

Slugs

Dave! wrote: »

Get rid of the 'educational' part of it and just get the kids to take part in physical activity/sport once or twice a week.

They started getting anal about PE as an academic subject in my school in 5th year, and we'd have weeks where PE class would be composed of sitting in a classroom talking about health and fitness, rather than running around and actually being active -- meanwhile most of the students didn't take much exercise besides PE.

Let some other subject cover the academic side of fitness, and leave an hour or two a week for actual physical activity.

Then I think the real problem is lack of P.E. Classes. We got 1hr 20 min for P.E. in 1st and Ty, then 40 for every other year. I think it should be increased to 2 hours, 1hr 20 for physical activity, and 40 for the academic education. The thing is, apart from my first year in school, where we did EVERYTHING, the only sports we've done over the last 5 years has been Soccer, basketball and badminton/tennis. That's got to change.

DonkeyStyle \o/

thehamo wrote: »

I whole heartedly agree. I know a lot of people who always hated P.E. beacuse it was purely "here's a football, pick your own tems". Some people just cant play football its as simple as that. yet they could excell in other areas of sport/exercise, especially in the theory side of things. From my experience, people who start exercise programs become ingulfed in it and want to know all the details, and ins and outs of it.

+1
That's what it was like at my school, once per week: "Here's a football/rugby ball, off you go." The worst thing was that we had (apparently) one of the best gyms in the country.
I think the problem is that firstly there didn't seem to be any curriculum, and secondly we'd often have a science teacher (or who ever) running our PE class, who busied himself with other paperwork.

Making it a testable subject would likely put an end to this lazy approach to PE.
If you want to start body building or weight loss, there's all sorts of things to know about carbs, calories, protein, heart rate, diet, etc. ... some of these were covered in science/biology class, but not with a view to fitness.
You read it said all the time on the fitness forum "you can't spot-reduce fat", why is it after years of PE class we generally don't know this?
I don't think you need to base tests on fitness levels, there's plenty of knowledge to test.

Orla K

I have to disagree with you fitness is not something you can grade, too many loop holes ie what about an injury.

thehamo wrote: »

Again, tell that to a Dyslexic child trying to read a history or maths book. They still have to do it.

Walking is not an examinable subject, its part of the program to get fit. Again it comes back down to each program tailored to each individual need. If they get there by walking then so be it. As long as they are getting their exercise. "Physical Education" is not about sport. Its about learning how your body works and how to keep it healthy through exercise and good diet.

Also not a good idea compairing dyslexia to being unfit. I'm dyslexic (only found out when I was in college) in school dyslexics get extra help. There are also different types of dyslexia, mine is my memory and speed of processing, everything else I'm well above adverage which slightly makes up for the other two (only slightly). Also I think most dyslexic people would have very little problems with a maths book mainly because most of it is numbers.


As for the fitness thing, my knees (nearly spelt that one without a k:o) cause me alot of pain, have done since I was in primary school. Doctors always called it growing pains, well for the amount of pain I was in I'm not tall enough. I still have these pains and I also learnt that excersise brings on the pain (even cycling) so if we had it your way I would have been crying myself to sleep because of the pain with doctors(and everyone else) telling me it's nothing. (also they still haven't figured out what it is)


If I had to pick one out of the two to deal with I'd pick dyslexia over mystery knee pain.

me_right_one

thehamo wrote: »

I was just thinking,

What with the levels of obesity in kids these days and lack of exercise being taken, my opinion is that p.e. should be an examinable subject with both theory and practice in school. I think that school is the one place that can tackle this problem, and by making sure that children are active every day will help decrease levels of obesity.

Ways it can be done are to give each child a fitness test and create a specific program for that person to help increase fitness levels. By tayloring the program to each individual, and giving the realistic goals, it does not creat an elitist system where only the really fit people do well. A very unfit person could have smaller goals but equally as hard to reach for them, thus both the fit and unfit can both come out wit the same grade.

For those of you who say, its not fair as some people just arent suited to exercise/sports etc I say boll*cks. They have legs they can walk. It doesnt have to be hard. Also, there are many people who just arent suited to Maths, languages, English the list goes on. Yet they still have to participate.

My two cents. Lets hear your opinions!

Brilliant idea. I bet there will be plenty of objections from fat boardsies though!

kenon

Orla K wrote: »

I have to disagree with you fitness is not something you can grade, too many loop holes ie what about an injury.

As for the fitness thing, my knees (nearly spelt that one without a k:o) cause me alot of pain, have done since I was in primary school. Doctors always called it growing pains, well for the amount of pain I was in I'm not tall enough. I still have these pains and I also learnt that excersise brings on the pain (even cycling) so if we had it your way I would have been crying myself to sleep because of the pain with doctors(and everyone else) telling me it's nothing. (also they still haven't figured out what it is)


If I had to pick one out of the two to deal with I'd pick dyslexia over mystery knee pain.

As an example, your fitness could be tested by the improvement of your flexibility and other low impact exercises.

Orla K

kenon wrote: »

As an example, your fitness could be tested by the improvement of your flexibility and other low impact exercises.

But the thing is my flexibility is great (can't really improve it much more) and any exercise causes pain (cycling is a low impact exercise)

K-Ren

I think if you can be examined on religion then you can be examined on PE. It should be made an option, when you can study strands of it at university level.

Although making PE all about learning would also at the same time suck major cajones.

phasers

BOFH_139 wrote: »

phasers, I don;t know were your getting you info, but dyslexic DO NOT get extra support.

The only exception I got was been allowed to type my answers instead of writing it.
On the support side, I got nothing.

They did get have specialised teachers and lessons including a room {with top of line computers} that nobody else was allowed use for the three kids in the school with down syndrome.

Well in my school it was very dfferent.

Anyway, support aside, my point still stands.

kenon

Orla K wrote: »

But the thing is my flexibility is great (can't really improve it much more) and any exercise causes pain (cycling is a low impact exercise)

Well then you'll get an A.

If the school has access to a pool then people with knee, ankle injuries etc could be tested that way.

I understand there is loopholes, and god knows the Irish love exploiting them but I do believe that fitness could be graded.

P.E is a joke at the moment and something needs to be done.

El_Dangeroso

Yeah sure, make it an examinable subject, I mean it certainly did the trick for the Irish language, which is shoved down your throat from 4 years of age thus instilling a life long love and knowledge for the language..oh wait..

PhysiologyRocks

I could imagine the practical working on a pass/fail basis. Beyond that, I think it would be very difficult to quantify/be objective. You could have a tick-the-boxes, and then it would be fair. Done or not done.

The written could then be used to draw the line between grades.