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Alistair Overeem...
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27-09-2009 12:20pm#1Is this kind transformation possible without steroids or HGH? I really want to put on mass, but only functional mass, I don't want to lose my athleticism. Can anyone make an educated guess as to what program Alistair here is on? Obviously wouldn't be a bodybuilding routine, seeing as he's a professional athlete. The change in his physique between early 2007 and now is incredible. If anything, his bodyfat is even lower aswell!
-First pic is before mutation
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0.5kg a week for a Junior in the optimum growth period. Hard luck but that's not written for the 31 year olds among usSorry when I said new training programme I meant my current one. Been lifting with pretty much no direction in the gym for last ten years, until I went to one of the better known posters/trainers here.
Stats aren't amazing but 31yo, 6ft1.
This new programme 76.5kg (8%bf) to 77.4kg(7.4%bf) in just over 7weeks
Lifts will be very small compared to some posters here and never done a 1rep max but at 5X5 it's 90kg deadlift/80kg squat/70kg bench.
From what I've read here and in other places that's a more than achievable gain for most (if not more?).
I recently read the IRFU nutrition guidelines here which point to a guide of .5kg gain per week. I don't know who wrote that particular guideline, I'd imagine that would be genetically freakish if at all possible.
You can find it below under 'eating to gain weight'
http://www.irishrugby.ie/9501_483.php
(not referencing it for any other reason other than I stumbled across it a few weeks ago, I'm not a rugby player or training for it)
A kg of muscle growth in a month and half is reasonable at beginner level. Depending on a lot of things, you could possibly do 8kg in a year, but you're a novice and the question was about Overeem's growth, which would be impossible without drugs.0 -
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Overeem is definitely on. Rather than dance around the issue it's safe to assume he is. I hope I'm not breaking any boards rules by saying that. People sometimes find it hard to admit the glaringly obvious if they look up to a particular sporting hero. Let's not get into an argument about what amount of muscle is "technically possible" to gain drug free
OP from my own experience which is all I can speak of, at your age and with your current height, weight, lifts I'd say you simply need to get a hell of a lot stronger and cut out the "lean gains" idea until next year.
Between summer 2008 and summer 2009 was my first year training with a purpose so to speak (powerlifting, though it's irrelevant what the purpose was), I basically concentrated on getting stronger every week than the previous week and eating all I could. I trained 4 times a week, heavy all the time, didn't de-load, drank 3-4 litres of milk a day, no cardio and most importantly didn't worry about my appearance. In that year my squat went from 130kg to 215kg, deadlift from 150kg to 240kg, bench from 90-somethingkg to 140kg.
My weight increased from a leanish (abs barely visible) 88kg to a.... ehhhh.... bouncing 109.5kg with a fair bit of excess fat.
This summer I dieted and cardio'd down to 100kg and I'm leaner than I was at 88kg. So maybe 12-15kg of gain drug free. My lifts didn't really suffer with the weight loss, deadlift is higher by my calculations, squat is the same and bench is slightly down.
I'm in or around the same age as you OP and slightly shorter so I'm no youngfella who can make gains by looking at a set of dumbells. The end result is I'm training away now and keeping lean for health reasons, I won't get up to those levels of bodyfat ever again and I'm adding to my strength.
My point is the one year of not looking like a Men's Health model is worth it. I ended up strong and lean at the end. I'm not a fan of bulking and cutting cycles but starting off I think doing whatever it takes to get strong is the most important thing.
I know people will say it's possible to do the same and not add the fat but, without sounding like an ass, I'm probably stronger and more than likely leaner than them
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OP from my own experience which is all I can speak of, at your age and with your current height, weight, lifts I'd say you simply need to get a hell of a lot stronger and cut out the "lean gains" idea until next year.
Between summer 2008 and summer 2009 was my first year training with a purpose so to speak (powerlifting, though it's irrelevant what the purpose was), I basically concentrated on getting stronger every week than the previous week and eating all I could. I trained 4 times a week, heavy all the time, didn't de-load, drank 3-4 litres of milk a day, no cardio and most importantly didn't worry about my appearance. In that year my squat went from 130kg to 215kg, deadlift from 150kg to 240kg, bench from 90-somethingkg to 140kg.
My weight increased from a leanish (abs barely visible) 88kg to a.... ehhhh.... bouncing 109.5kg with a fair bit of excess fat.
This summer I dieted and cardio'd down to 100kg and I'm leaner than I was at 88kg. So maybe 12-15kg of gain drug free. My lifts didn't really suffer with the weight loss, deadlift is higher by my calculations, squat is the same and bench is slightly down.
I'm in or around the same age as you OP and slightly shorter so I'm no youngfella who can make gains by looking at a set of dumbells. The end result is I'm training away now and keeping lean for health reasons, I won't get up to those levels of bodyfat ever again and I'm adding to my strength.
My point is the one year of not looking like a Men's Health model is worth it. I ended up strong and lean at the end. I'm not a fan of bulking and cutting cycles but starting off I think doing whatever it takes to get strong is the most important thing.
I know people will say it's possible to do the same and not add the fat but, without sounding like an ass, I'm probably stronger and more than likely leaner than them
Fair play kevpants they are impressive gains. I presume the OP is directed at me.
I guess it depends on the sacrifices you're prepared to make, I cycle quite a bit and train in other areas too, hence the reason for wanting to keep any gains I make quite lean. I'd imagine if you're slightly shorter than me walking around at 100kg makes you pretty huge. I'm only aiming at 85/86kg. My lifts are improving since starting seriously gettin at it too.
Trainer has changed to new programme now to mix it up. I'll see what sort of gains I make over a six month period and then compare it to the sort of gains you made with that method.
Back to the original posts though it was mentioned that sort of gain was impossible for the 'average joe' to achieve without drugs, yet you estimate 12-15kg gain in a year and a half? Is it the fact that he gained that amount so lean that leads you that guys are coming to that conclusion?0 -
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Good stuff well done. So we have 12-15kgs of muskles gained with zero cardio. So let's call it equivalent to Overeems muskle gain. Now take your schedule, and put in cardio, boxing, muay thai, wrestling etc. Unnattainable without prescription help.Overeem is definitely on. Rather than dance around the issue it's safe to assume he is. I hope I'm not breaking any boards rules by saying that. People sometimes find it hard to admit the glaringly obvious if they look up to a particular sporting hero. Let's not get into an argument about what amount of muscle is "technically possible" to gain drug free
OP from my own experience which is all I can speak of, at your age and with your current height, weight, lifts I'd say you simply need to get a hell of a lot stronger and cut out the "lean gains" idea until next year.
Between summer 2008 and summer 2009 was my first year training with a purpose so to speak (powerlifting, though it's irrelevant what the purpose was), I basically concentrated on getting stronger every week than the previous week and eating all I could. I trained 4 times a week, heavy all the time, didn't de-load, drank 3-4 litres of milk a day, no cardio and most importantly didn't worry about my appearance. In that year my squat went from 130kg to 215kg, deadlift from 150kg to 240kg, bench from 90-somethingkg to 140kg.
My weight increased from a leanish (abs barely visible) 88kg to a.... ehhhh.... bouncing 109.5kg with a fair bit of excess fat.
This summer I dieted and cardio'd down to 100kg and I'm leaner than I was at 88kg. So maybe 12-15kg of gain drug free. My lifts didn't really suffer with the weight loss, deadlift is higher by my calculations, squat is the same and bench is slightly down.
I'm in or around the same age as you OP and slightly shorter so I'm no youngfella who can make gains by looking at a set of dumbells. The end result is I'm training away now and keeping lean for health reasons, I won't get up to those levels of bodyfat ever again and I'm adding to my strength.
My point is the one year of not looking like a Men's Health model is worth it. I ended up strong and lean at the end. I'm not a fan of bulking and cutting cycles but starting off I think doing whatever it takes to get strong is the most important thing.
I know people will say it's possible to do the same and not add the fat but, without sounding like an ass, I'm probably stronger and more than likely leaner than them
Also just as an aside, the bigger you are the leaner you look, so would you say that your bodyfat % is equivalent to the you at 88kg or does it just look leaner?
Personally I hear lots of stuff on this forum and elsewhere like "ew milk" and "don't touch sugar", "drop the beer" and so on. To be frank, I'd sooner have an additional 2 days in the gym and have lattés all day, chocolate at night and a few beers at the weekend than live the way some people recommend. Seeing my abs is not a concern but then, I've seen my abs (can't right now) so maybe I know that it's no big deal.0 -
I resent that!!!
Kev's spot on tho... never seen anyone make such big changes so quickly. I reckon it was the cons.
It was the cons. I washed them with 2 parts Persil, one part HGH.Good stuff well done. So we have 12-15kgs of muskles gained with zero cardio. So let's call it equivalent to Overeems muskle gain. Now take your schedule, and put in cardio, boxing, muay thai, wrestling etc. Unnattainable without prescription help.
Also just as an aside, the bigger you are the leaner you look, so would you say that your bodyfat % is equivalent to the you at 88kg or does it just look leaner?
Personally I hear lots of stuff on this forum and elsewhere like "ew milk" and "don't touch sugar", "drop the beer" and so on. To be frank, I'd sooner have an additional 2 days in the gym and have lattés all day, chocolate at night and a few beers at the weekend than live the way some people recommend. Seeing my abs is not a concern but then, I've seen my abs (can't right now) so maybe I know that it's no big deal.
Agreed. I've always been against the, "You need to cut out those nasty Jamesons and up your twig and nettle intake"
On the leaner or just bigger thing, I suppose the % doesn't matter if you look leaner but I'm judging it on how much I can grab on my lovehandles area. It's very scientific. I'll PM you with the formula to work it out.Fair play kevpants they are impressive gains. I presume the OP is directed at me.
I guess it depends on the sacrifices you're prepared to make, I cycle quite a bit and train in other areas too, hence the reason for wanting to keep any gains I make quite lean. I'd imagine if you're slightly shorter than me walking around at 100kg makes you pretty huge. I'm only aiming at 85/86kg. My lifts are improving since starting seriously gettin at it too.
I'm not huge, probably just solid looking. People who don't train would probably presume the guys with the big pecs and veined biceps are stronger than me. That's the thing about getting stronger as opposed to targeting muscles and concentrating on them. You'll find you get heavier because you're just growing all over. I think it probably looks better, I dunno. It wasn't one of my priorities. I stay lean because I'm at high risk of heart disease and as I said I compete as a powerlifter, hence the strength emphasis.
So long as you look at your (strength)gains more than your abs for the first year you'll be ok is my main point.0 -
Will do, I'd like to increase my big 3 significantly and new programme is introducing cleans and snatches which are new to me (and incidentally feel like my shoulders are going to pop out with even just the bar at the moment on cleans)...and I'll buy a pair of cons too
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Fair play kevpants they are impressive gains. I presume the OP is directed at me.
I guess it depends on the sacrifices you're prepared to make, I cycle quite a bit and train in other areas too, hence the reason for wanting to keep any gains I make quite lean. I'd imagine if you're slightly shorter than me walking around at 100kg makes you pretty huge. I'm only aiming at 85/86kg. My lifts are improving since starting seriously gettin at it too.
I don't know much about gaining muscle (fats a different story
) but if you are cycling and training for other things, and eating and lifting for gains the way kev did then you would still probably stay leaner than he did. From what I can tell his training for a year was just directed towards getting big, but if you include cardio training you can still get big although perhaps slightly slower, nad stay a bit leaner than he did. 0 -
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