One-off houses: Good or Bad?

knipex

JupiterKid wrote: »

Ah, I just love it when denizens of rural one-off houses get all defensive of their dwellings. :rolleyes:

I am not talking rubbish. Rural one-off houses are more difficult to service and access in snow and icy weather.

They tend to be more isolated and cut off in bad weather - no brainer. If people chose to live in these houses, fine, but don't whinge and moan at the local authority for being unable to clear and grit every country boreen and lane leading to these houses.

As I said before, a friend's parents are regretting their move to a rural one-off house because of these wintry conditions and being isolated and are considering moving back to the city. There must be a few who are thinking along the same lines.

What you said was that rural dwellers were a liability to employers.

What I said is that you were talking ****e.

And I speak as an employer and a rural dweller.

Your friends parents moved from an urban location to a rural one and expected all their lovely services and facilities to move with them. When reality hit them a big slap in the face they didn't like it very much.

I on the other hand don't expect the same facility urban dwellers expect.

I don't need someone to clear my footpath for me.
I don't need someone to put a bus stop outside my door.
I don't need to declare a national emergency when the roads get a bit frosty or the mains water supply gets cut off and demand the government step in and save me.
I don't need some social worker to look after my elderly neighbours...

I quite capable of doing that myself, I don't need to have my hand held.

ForiegnNational wrote: »

Simple question, if you have an open fire at home, do you have a chainsaw? ..

I have 2 (used to have three but gave one to a neighbour when his died)

bernardo mac

No objection to one-off houses as long as they are not ridiculously large and are a blot on the landscape as in many cases in Co.Wexford where quite curious and a probably selective planning permission policy seems to have operated in recent years,possibly due to lobbying of Co.Councillors, the applicant's business connections etc...

danbohan

bernardo mac wrote: »

No objection to one-off houses as long as they are not ridiculously large and are a blot on the landscape as in many cases in Co.Wexford where quite curious and a probably selective planning permission policy seems to have operated in recent years,possibly due to lobbying of Co.Councillors, the applicant's business connections etc...

i think you will find in current and foreseeable future economic conditions not to mention harsher winters and rising oil prices the amount of new 4000 sq foot mansions will decrease greatly in future

antoobrien

ForiegnNational wrote: »

Simple question, if you have an open fire at home, do you have a chainsaw? i.e. Are you in any way prepared to provide for yourself?

The vast majority of people with open fires in rural areas will have at least a hatchet, most have a decent sized axe. The reason is quite simple, the kind of sticks sold in shops are expensive and not very good for fires anyways. Besides which, we have bogs all over the places, from which turf will have been saved months ago.

My family home in Galway has its own oil supply, which we monitor and get deliverys when required. This is usually twice a year in October and late January/early February. We have turf from the local bogs and burn the wood from works done about the house, i.e. gardening, tree felling, home improvements etc. When bad weather like we have promised comes we buy enough so that we can last two weeks, which is usually long enough.

My brother moved to south Mayo with his family in the kind of farmhouse that many on this thread seem to despise (no it's not a macmansion but it is old, isolated and not near any others). His kids have been going to school until this week, when they decided it wasn't safe (7" of snow on the roads and -17c overnight would do that).

On the other hand I work in Dublin so I'm living in a rented house with a jackeen and another (young) cluchie. If the gas gives out, we're screwed because there's no fireplace & back boiler and they constantly complaining about how cold it is. I don't know if it's relative youth or what but idiocy seems to come easily to the young (my housemates refuse to wear jumpers etc. and want people to drive them to takeaways on roads with 3" packed ice).

The myth of easier urban living is an unsustainable fallacy - it's no easier to get to services because the access to them is almost always congested, unless you want to go at a time thats really inconvenient to you. The houses and apartments that have been build recently in Dublin (last 20 years) I have been in are not fit for purpose. We do live 55 degrees north, if it wasn't for the gulf stream we would call worse weather that we are currently experiencing normal. God help us if anything happens to the gas supply: an awful lot of these new "modern" houses and apartments are going to very very cold.

If the only objection people have is the costs, rural dwellers are already paying the costs. We have taxes, water rates and fees that do not exists in towns, infrastructure development costs & connection fees etc etc etc. The economies of scale I have seen mentioned on this board are the same that apply to rural areas. If you build a house and have to extend a line - you pay for it. If you build and estate and the ESB have to upgrade the local network, the developer pays for it. In both cases it's subsided by the fees paid by business customers for their supply.

This cold snap has shown how slipshod central planning is - in case anyone didn't see the news, a man in Wexford who rigged a pipe to a tractor mower got a contract to plow footpaths & roads. That is an advertisement for getting the hell of of towns for me.

Aard

@antoobrien:


Interesting post. I imagine your housemates are just young, and have no concept of how much is a ridiculous price to pay for heating/electricity, nor it seems about general safety.


Using Dublin as an example of the myth of urban living isn't far off the truth. I, an urbanite, and probably most others who advocate urban living, wouldn't hold up Dublin as a shining example. There are parts that are "planned" relatively well -- generally the inner and mid suburbs. Where my parents live, it's easy to walk to the supermarket, post office, pub, or hairdresser (just some examples that seem to be in every town in the country!), even in the heavy snow. However, once you get out to places like "Greater" Blanchardstown, suddenly the car is king again. This is not sustainable development, and not what I would like propagated. I'm thinking of urbanism along continental European lines, not American sprawl.

wiseguy

Ah merry xmas to yee'all

have a funny story, over last week I got more and more relatives visiting and queuing up to use the shower, since we got running water and plenty of fuel
4 separate houses of my relatives in different parts of the city have no water, pipes must be frozen, mine is running well, had the foresight to install pipes deep and insulate them, when you build own home you have the ability to monitor every single detail

we culchies can now refer to city folk as smelly :P

Someone mention being isolated etc etc, not really
Unlike cityzens countryzens are used to worse weather (no heat island effect?) the world doesn't stop when we get a little bit of snow.
And the 4x4 trucks sure come in handy in the ice :cool:

antoobrien wrote: »

The myth of easier urban living is an unsustainable fallacy - it's no easier to get to services because the access to them is almost always congested, unless you want to go at a time thats really inconvenient to you. The houses and apartments that have been build recently in Dublin (last 20 years) I have been in are not fit for purpose.

True the construction of most town homes/apts I seen is diabolic, serious shortcuts where taken especially in last 10 years, I seen cases where instead of insulation in cavity the builders just filled them in with rubbish, same for the gardens all rubbish underneath topsoil, or worse not having a single straight wall, i was shocked in one place I rented as to how the walls had wobbles in them and deviations from straight lines, must have been really careless cowboys building these

ForiegnNational

JupiterKid wrote: »

The issue is that of one-ioff rural houses being cut off from supplies and amenities by the heavy snows. Oil supplies for your heating restricted because the oil tanker can't get down your road due to the snow and ice, not being able to go to the shops to stock up on food, fuel (coal, wood) not being able to get to schools, workplaces etc.

Employers in cities may start to see employees who live in remote locations that become snowed in very easily as liabilities.

This winter will show up many one-off rural houses for the folly that they are.

I know what you mean, I lost water yesterday morning. Went out and pressed the pump reset button, all back working again. This being without water and dependant upon others is a nightmare...

antoobrien

JupiterKid wrote: »

Heating and insulation of rural one-off houses is not the issue in my post, although it's an interesting issue in itself.

The issue is that of one-ioff rural houses being cut off from supplies and amenities by the heavy snows. Oil supplies for your heating restricted because the oil tanker can't get down your road due to the snow and ice, not being able to go to the shops to stock up on food, fuel (coal, wood) not being able to get to schools, workplaces etc.

Lets see, my family live in a one off in Galway. We have water oil, supplies, can get to shops etc.
I live in a rented house in Dublin, currently no water and fortunately there's no snow as we'd have no supplies as it would be impossible to get to shops due to ice on roads and paths.

My brother lives in a townland (not even a village) near Ballyhaunis in Mayo. His two kids were in school while many schools in Dublin were closed. It took the 8" of snow reported by knock airport (which stayed open, granted they have a lot less area to keep clear than the DAA) the week before Christmas to close their school. I measured 4" of snow in Killester was enough to close down several schools in that area and Coolock.

JupiterKid wrote: »

Employers in cities may start to see employees who live in remote locations that become snowed in very easily as liabilities.

This winter will show up many one-off rural houses for the folly that they are.

The office (in Eastpoint Business Park near Clontarf Rd Dart) has been practically empty for most of the last 6 weeks of 2010. The only people who came in were by and large those that could get the dart or were close enough to walk. Public transport was at best unreliable and people don't want to be hanging around for an hour in temperatures ranging from 0c to -12c (and this was warmer than my family were reporting in Galway on the same days). Very few cars were driven (an unhealthy majority of people drive). Most of these people who decided it was unsafe to come to work live in the so called greater Dublin area. The only saving grace was the fact that we are a software company and can work from home. The Rural dwellers were the ones that were most prepared even to the point of coming in when their broadband went down.

JupiterKid wrote: »

This winter will show up many one-off rural houses for the folly that they are.

This winter,and last has shown the folly of poor urban planning. Rural communiteis seem to get on just fine in weather, maybe because we are used having to do everything for ourselves anyways (yes despite living in Dublin for 5 years, i'm still a country by at heart).

Pete_Cavan

antoobrien wrote: »

Lets see, my family live in a one off in Galway. We have water oil, supplies, can get to shops etc.
I live in a rented house in Dublin, currently no water and fortunately there's no snow as we'd have no supplies as it would be impossible to get to shops due to ice on roads and paths.

My brother lives in a townland (not even a village) near Ballyhaunis in Mayo. His two kids were in school while many schools in Dublin were closed. It took the 8" of snow reported by knock airport (which stayed open, granted they have a lot less area to keep clear than the DAA) the week before Christmas to close their school. I measured 4" of snow in Killester was enough to close down several schools in that area and Coolock.




The office (in Eastpoint Business Park near Clontarf Rd Dart) has been practically empty for most of the last 6 weeks of 2010. The only people who came in were by and large those that could get the dart or were close enough to walk. Public transport was at best unreliable and people don't want to be hanging around for an hour in temperatures ranging from 0c to -12c (and this was warmer than my family were reporting in Galway on the same days). Very few cars were driven (an unhealthy majority of people drive). Most of these people who decided it was unsafe to come to work live in the so called greater Dublin area. The only saving grace was the fact that we are a software company and can work from home. The Rural dwellers were the ones that were most prepared even to the point of coming in when their broadband went down.


This winter,and last has shown the folly of poor urban planning. Rural communiteis seem to get on just fine in weather, maybe because we are used having to do everything for ourselves anyways (yes despite living in Dublin for 5 years, i'm still a country by at heart).

That is ridiculous. You think that urban dwelling is a folly because a few schools stayed open in Ballyhaunis, you really are clutching at straws. You are turning the thread into a living in Dublin v living in the country thread, which it is not.The thread is about the unsustainable nature of low density, sparsley populated settlement patterns. Of course it suits you to have the debate descend into a cluchies are better than Dubs argument and ignore the fact that a large proportion of the money that pays for that school in Ballyhaunis comes from taxes generated in Dublin. This does not mean that the entire population should live in Dublin. Rural dwellers can still live in the country, but it should be in clustered settlements, or villages as they were once known as.

And I am not one of these holier than thou D4 Greens who has never set foot outside the Pale. I am from Cavan, one of the most sparsely populated regions in the country and my opposition to one-off housing is based on seeing first hand the damage that it has caused. The views of our once beautiful countryside and lakes has been destroyed by all the houses that have sprung up in the last decade, our always dodgy roads are even more dangerous because of the entrances along them. One-off houses have also seen the decline of many villages which have become ghost towns because people have moved out of them and because they have to use the car anyway they would rather drive to Tesco in the nearest big town even to pick up a litre of milk meaning no independent shops in these villages can survive. IMO one-off housing is destroying the country way of life that they think they are maintaining.

One-off houses ruin the country side and are killing towns and villages, and thats without getting into the tax revenue generated in urban areas which subsidises this lifestyle. In another thread Aidan1 made a very interesting point about demographic changes in the BMW region which highlights social problems associated with one-off housing. Ireland would be a lot better of economically and socially if all future development was centred in towns and villages and we put an end to building one-off houses.

antoobrien

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

That is ridiculous. You think that urban dwelling is a folly because a few schools stayed open in Ballyhaunis, you really are clutching at straws. You are turning the thread into a living in Dublin v living in the country thread, which it is not.The thread is about the unsustainable nature of low density, sparsley populated settlement patterns.

I'm not turning this into Cluchies vs Jackeens, but having lived in Dublin for the past 5 years I think I have a right to point out that a lot of the stuff on this thread is utter crap bordering on being facist. The amount of harping on about 'MacMansions' is sickening and indicative (to me) of jealousy (I can't afford to so by god your nor going to) or a facist snobbery (I don't like this so you can't do it). As I've said earlier in this thread the services for everyone in the country are subsidies by the industrial rates paid, so if these house can be built and they can pay for the provision of their services i've no problem with it.

The point of my post was that Dublin practically shut down for the last week to week and a half of November and most of the month of December, whereas despite getting WORSE weather that we did here in Dublin they seemed to be able to get by in Mayo without the might of the NRA and the 4 local authorities attempting (and failing miserably) to keep Dublin moving. So I urge you to consider this opinion: If it wasn't for the dart and luas over this spell and Last years cold snap, Dublin would be the biggest farce of a city in Western Europe.

I have a serious problem that people are claiming that urban living is better or even sustainable when I see things like this happen. I'd like to know where my tax money was being spent, 'cause it sure as hell wasn't being spent where I live - more likely being spent to stop the retailers (who are still ripping us off) from whining about the weather.

As for the thing about people driving to tesco to get a litre of milk, although it's an issue for any number of other forums, I'll give you one possible explanation: the 70 odd cents difference in the price of a carton of milk perhaps might have something to do with it. That's the difference between the price of the cheapest 1l of milk in the Spar & Tesco stores in Artaine.


The simple fact of the matter is that, as a nation we are wedded to the notion that location matters. As I said in my post most of the office was empty and working from home. The simple fact of the matter is that a lot of jobs no longer require us to be in offices, yet the location centric psyche of management requires us to be in an office where they can shout at us.

Aard

Urban living doesn't necessarily mean Dublin-sized urban living. Cork is urban, as is Carlow, as is Clane.

antoobrien

Aard wrote: »

Urban living doesn't necessarily mean Dublin-sized urban living. Cork is urban, as is Carlow, as is Clane.

And if we want sustainable urban centers we need to take a look at which ones are too big (I'll start with Dublin, Cork, Galway & Limerick) and concentrate on urgently upgrading towns like Portloiase (just an example) and turning these into economic centers to take the strain off the bigger towns and cities allowing the infrastructure in these urban centers to reach adequate levels - bypass, busses, rail or whatever is appropriate

ei.sdraob

antoobrien wrote: »

And if we want sustainable urban centers we need to take a look at which ones are too big (I'll start with Dublin, Cork, Galway & Limerick) and concentrate on urgently upgrading towns like Portloiase (just an example) and turning these into economic centers to take the strain off the bigger towns and cities allowing the infrastructure in these urban centers to reach adequate levels - bypass, busses, rail or whatever is appropriate

As a Galwegian I cry when I hear the word "bypass"

Apparently its a great idea to have everyone living in cities since they get better infrastructure
yet when it comes to building vital infrastructure (as many on this forum are aware) the same Greens/NIMBYs/Environuts have a fit and we endup with situation such as Galway which badly needs a bypass for the city to function as a city, it seems we are all meant to cycle everywhere (yes as somone who cycled alot in Galway all I have to say is -->> :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :mad: ) on no existent cyclepaths

and thats just road infrastructure, instead of carpeting the countryside in windmills and pylons it would make more sense to locate 1 nuclear plant in Dublin Docs and hey presto cheap, reliable electricity without transmission losses, but of course thats too sensible.

I have come to conclusion that Green inclined people are hypocrites and we should pay little attention to them.

paulm17781

antoobrien wrote: »

And if we want sustainable urban centers we need to take a look at which ones are too big (I'll start with Dublin, Cork, Galway & Limerick) and concentrate on urgently upgrading towns like Portloiase (just an example) and turning these into economic centers to take the strain off the bigger towns and cities allowing the infrastructure in these urban centers to reach adequate levels - bypass, busses, rail or whatever is appropriate

Is that not what most people here have implied though (not the nonsense about cities being too big), the gist of the thread was that one off housing is unsustainable and country side developments should be clustered into villages, not "everyone should live in Dublin".

Pete_Cavan

antoobrien wrote: »

I'm not turning this into Cluchies vs Jackeens, but having lived in Dublin for the past 5 years I think I have a right to point out that a lot of the stuff on this thread is utter crap bordering on being facist. The amount of harping on about 'MacMansions' is sickening and indicative (to me) of jealousy (I can't afford to so by god your nor going to) or a facist snobbery (I don't like this so you can't do it). As I've said earlier in this thread the services for everyone in the country are subsidies by the industrial rates paid, so if these house can be built and they can pay for the provision of their services i've no problem with it.

You have completely missed my point. The thread is about one-off houses (the clue is in the title) or 'MacMansions' as some people have referred to them. My point was that urban does not equal Dublin, a town of any size can be considered urban. Even if you live in the smallest village in the most rural part of Connemara you are less of a burden on the state than someone living in a one-off house because at least in the village you are sharing services with other houses as well as shops, pubs, etc. The issue to hand is living in any town or village v living outside them. And as far as industrial rates subsidising the provision of services, more industrial rates are paid in urban areas than in rural areas so you are admitting that urban areas subsidise rural areas.

antoobrien wrote: »

The point of my post was that Dublin practically shut down for the last week to week and a half of November and most of the month of December, whereas despite getting WORSE weather that we did here in Dublin they seemed to be able to get by in Mayo without the might of the NRA and the 4 local authorities attempting (and failing miserably) to keep Dublin moving. So I urge you to consider this opinion: If it wasn't for the dart and luas over this spell and Last years cold snap, Dublin would be the biggest farce of a city in Western Europe.

I have a serious problem that people are claiming that urban living is better or even sustainable when I see things like this happen. I'd like to know where my tax money was being spent, 'cause it sure as hell wasn't being spent where I live - more likely being spent to stop the retailers (who are still ripping us off) from whining about the weather.

Well if your tax money is generated in Dublin I can tell you where a large proportion of it is not spent, Dublin! A lot of the tax money generated in Dublin leaves there and is spent in rural areas which do not generate enough tax revenue to cover their costs. If all the tax money stayed in Dublin there would be no problems there but the rest of the country would suffer. Again, the best solution to the problem you describe is to ensure services are shared to allow tax money to be spent more efficiently through economics of scale, ie. less one-off houses.

antoobrien wrote: »

As for the thing about people driving to tesco to get a litre of milk, although it's an issue for any number of other forums, I'll give you one possible explanation: the 70 odd cents difference in the price of a carton of milk perhaps might have something to do with it. That's the difference between the price of the cheapest 1l of milk in the Spar & Tesco stores in Artaine.

The reason Tesco can sell everything cheaper is because they have huge buying power and squeeze every penny out of their suppliers. They build vast stores which take business from smaller local stores forcing these stores to close. That is off topic though.

antoobrien wrote: »

The simple fact of the matter is that, as a nation we are wedded to the notion that location matters. As I said in my post most of the office was empty and working from home. The simple fact of the matter is that a lot of jobs no longer require us to be in offices, yet the location centric psyche of management requires us to be in an office where they can shout at us.

Again you are talking crap. Location is one of the most important factors for most businesses, how can you expect to run a business if you have no customers/suppliers/ancillary services (accountants, solicitors etc.) near you? Employment also creates more employment indirectly through those people spending their earning in the wider economy and this is much more effective in urban areas.

antoobrien

paulm17781 wrote: »

the gist of the thread was that one off housing is unsustainable and country side developments should be clustered into villages, not "everyone should live in Dublin".

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

You have completely missed my point. The thread is about one-off houses (the clue is in the title) or 'MacMansions' as some people have referred to them. My point was that urban does not equal Dublin, a town of any size can be considered urban.

Ok, but read my posts again - I never said I never "everyone should live in Dublin" or anything like that. There is a serious clue in my location as to why I post about Dublin & Galway and not anywhere else - I happen to live & work in Dublin (even though I don't particularly like it) and I'm from Galway. I won't talk about other towns/urban centers as I know very little about them.

Before you reject out of hand anything thats said because you don't like the poster or the message there are enormous lesson to be learned for all urban areas around the country from Dublin. Water, transport, planning etc. I'm just putting my experiences here to balance the debate.

My point is rather simple - if we are to live in urban areas they'd better do better job of providing the services that everyone on the urban side of this debate is claiming are cheaper when in urban areas. The quality of services are, to be blunt, piss poor. Personally, i'd rather live in a one off and pay for a well & septic tank to be dug and pay the costs associated with getting light and heat than have to rely on councils to provide these services.

antoobrien

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

If all the tax money stayed in Dublin there would be no problems there but the rest of the country would suffer. A

It's a good job too because 75% of the population live outside Co. Dublin.

antoobrien

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

The reason Tesco can sell everything cheaper is because they have huge buying power and squeeze every penny out of their suppliers.

What about the fact that all the creameries pay roughly the same price for milk? If you had said that they can use bigger stores to subsidise the cost of smaller stores you'd make sense.

antoobrien

Pete_Cavan wrote: »

Again you are talking crap. Location is one of the most important factors for most businesses, how can you expect to run a business if you have no customers/suppliers/ancillary services (accountants, solicitors etc.) near you? Employment also creates more employment indirectly through those people spending their earning in the wider economy and this is much more effective in urban areas.

Oh dear god, where to start with this. We have approx 1,000 people working in various offices in Dublin. Less than 200 needed to show up for work in perform their assigned role in the time frame i outlined in my earlier post, ergo we (as in my company) don't need to have as much office space. This is widespread across the industry.

We are tied to costly locations by such logic as you have described above in a self sustaining argument that quite frankly beggars belief. Perhaps I should have said that it's becoming less important than it used to be - certainly the railers in Dublin City center are finding that as larger regional centers are springing up to service their shopping needs. Yes there are a lot of jobs that require location, but our economy is shifting away from this. Have you noticed that the jobs that are being announced in large numbers are not manufacturing types portable skills types (such as software services)? These people do not need to be in an office to work, their teams can be spread all over the world.

busman

antoobrien wrote: »

What about the fact that all the creameries pay roughly the same price for milk? If you had said that they can use bigger stores to subsidise the cost of smaller stores you'd make sense.

Not going to comment on what farmers get for there milk, but the fact that it comes for the end of the boreen where I live!

The point of my post is that the infrastructure that I use (Power, road) is there already servicing the the needs of people in towns and Cities.

How much milk is produced in Dublin City? or any food stuff for that matter

ei.sdraob

busman wrote: »

How much milk is produced in Dublin City? or any food stuff for that matter

Or electricity... see how much noise there is about burning the rubbish those cityzens produce to make some electricity, they'd rather its buried out of sight in the countryside where it pollutes local water and/or sent to China or some other far away place to be recycled

dubhthach

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Or electricity... see how much noise there is about burning the rubbish those cityzens produce to make some electricity, they'd rather its buried out of sight in the countryside where it pollutes local water and/or sent to China or some other far away place to be recycled

There are 5 power stations within the Dublin urban area. these being:

Poolbeg: 1020 MW
Dublin bay Power: 400 MW
North Wall: 272 MW
Leixlip: 4 MW
Huntstown: 747 MW

Total: 2443 MW

There is a total installed capacity of 4,700MW in Ireland so I think the Dublin urban area punches well above it's weight in this regard (close to 52% of total generation)

--Edit--
I live in Sandymount and I'm in favour of the incinerator in Poolbeg, then again I also think we need Nuclear power in this country but that is beside the point.

ei.sdraob

dubhthach wrote: »

There is a total installed capacity of 4,700MW in Ireland

There is quite a bit more than 4700MW installed capacity in Ireland


Installed Dispatchable Capacity 6,829 MW
+
Installed Renewable Capacity 1,697 MW
=
8,025MW

Last I checked Dublin is not carpeted in wind mills since they obviously wont work there...

Oh and Poolbeg is 970MW

dubhthach wrote: »

I live in Sandymount and I'm in favour of the incinerator in Poolbeg, then again I also think we need Nuclear power in this country but that is beside the point.

I wasn't referring to you but the typical green flag waving D4er, and yes I lived in D6 and worked in D2 for some time

L1011

I've no idea if it is or not, but would that not be the capacity on the *entire* Eirgrid system. Which includes Northern Ireland - Eirgrid bought the system operator there some time ago (and the ESB are buying the transmission network too).

Aard

That's still 30% that Dublin generates, which is higher than its proportional population.

ei.sdraob

MYOB wrote: »

I've no idea if it is or not, but would that not be the capacity on the *entire* Eirgrid system. Which includes Northern Ireland - Eirgrid bought the system operator there some time ago (and the ESB are buying the transmission network too).

Could be since we are operating within an all island market/grid which needed up to 7000MW yesterday alone.
Tho I doubt that would explain all of the almost 2x of the figure posted above.

Aard wrote:

That's still 30% that Dublin generates, which is higher than its proportional population.

thats 0% of the wind generation, obviously enough wind wouldnt work too well city
my beef is with the D4 Green hypocrites who dont want an Incinerator to burn their waste and generate energy and yet have no issues dumping the same waste in the countryside polluting the water and carpeting the same countryside in windmills and pylons for these.

dubhthach

Awh I missed the date stamp on the presentation I was looking at. It was from 2004 when there was 4700MW installed (7,000 = 1.49x more -- hardly 2x). Using the 2010 Q4 weekly generation report you can get the following averages for Peak time generation:

Dispatchable Plant: 6123 MW (13 week peak average)
Wind: 407.5 MW (13 week peak average)
Interconnector: 38.5 MW (13 week peak average)

Total Average Peak times capacity Q4: 6,569 MW

Then again perhaps I've done my sums wrong:

Going by the report though you can see how unreliable wind can be at peak times:
Week 25th Oct: 1,185 MW (wind) available at Peak times
Week 20th Dec: 45 MW (wind) available at Peak times

That's a 97% drop in wind generation capacity from Peak to Trough.
http://www.cer.ie/GetAttachment.aspx?id=69eefd63-cf1b-406f-a103-e91aa4925ba9

Aard

ei.sdraob wrote: »

my beef is with the D4 Green hypocrites who dont want an Incinerator to burn their waste and generate energy and yet have no issues dumping the same waste in the countryside polluting the water and carpeting the same countryside in windmills and pylons for these.

Is there not a landfill or two in Dublin? I thought there was one near Finglas.


As for carpeting the countryside with windmills: what the difference between that and carpeting the countryside with one-off houses?

ei.sdraob

Aard wrote: »

Is there not a landfill or two in Dublin? I thought there was one near Finglas.

not exactly Dublin city is it

Aard wrote: »

As for carpeting the countryside with windmills: what the difference between that and carpeting the countryside with one-off houses?

You missed my point (again) the people doing the moaning about one-off houses are hypocrites since they have no issues covering the countryside, especially coastal/western areas with windgenerators and pylons for this, which IMHO are much more damaging on the eye, also the "green" credentials of these windmills is questionable considering much pollution is generated in their making and the creation of their parts

btw I worked in power generation and have no issues with either large coal plants or pumped storage or wind generators
i also worked in cities and now countryside and see both sides of debates, I just have no patience for "green" hypocrites, they drive me up the wall, especially nowadays with the subsidization of wind at expense of whole economy

Aard

You're right. Nimbies, and "green" nimbies at that, drive me up the wall too.