LISBON TREATY PANIC IN TURKEY - Vote NO!

Scofflaw

I wouldn't usually post a Video OP (or any video) but this deserves special treatment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_gfc2IP1Hc

For those who can't see the video, it shows some kind of crowd scene at a Turkish airport, and features the following captions:

There was a major panic at all Turkish airports today

Due to a missplling (sic) in the national newspaper

That gave the impression the Lisbon Treaty was ratified

Resulting in a panic buying of tickets

To Ireland with flights quickly booked out

Resulting in angry mobs congregating at all major airports as panic set in

All maps of Ireland were sold out in minutes*

Ireland has an open door policy and is the number one destination

They say they must get to Ireland

Vote No.

I find this sort of thing quite nauseating. It's also full of unintentional irony: first, the "missplling" (sic) in the caption about the misspelling, but more importantly, the map shown is of the Eastern Med, which, along with the tear in it, suggests that the scenes shown probably relate to Cyprus - the main reason why Turkey can't get into the EU.

To reiterate for those who are under a misapprehension:

(1) Lisbon has nothing to do with Turkish accession - there is no cap on numbers in Nice, so accession will be just as possible with a No vote as a Yes vote, it makes no difference.

(2) Turkey has currently completed only 1 chapter of 35 chapters that need to be negotiated before entry, and 8 chapters are currently blocked by the issue of Cyprus, and cannot be negotiated at all.

(3) If Turkey does accede to the EU (and Germany and France would both prefer that it doesn't), it is not likely to happen before about 2023, and even then there's likely to be at least a decade of 'transition' before Turks would be allowed freedom of movement.

Finally, what the hell is any sane person doing on the side of the kind of crude, lying, low-lives that would make this kind of racist vomit?

nauseated,
Scofflaw

K-9

Prove it isn't true.

"He's homosexual"

"But he isn't"

"Let us see him deny it"

Was it Johnson?

Scofflaw

K-9 wrote: »

Prove it isn't true.

Nope - that would be speculation, wouldn't it...

cordially,
Scofflaw

K-9

But you are Homosexual?

DaSilva

This video is absolute nonsense. This never happened, this is a video of something totally unrelated.

Scofflaw wrote: »

Finally, what the hell is any sane person doing on the side of the kind of crude, lying, low-lives that would make this kind of racist vomit?

This comment is just as big a load of tripe as the video is. Are you saying that because there are morons on the 'vote no' side, that people should vote yes just to distance themselves from these people? This is the same "anything to get you to vote my way" approach the morons who made that video are taking.

OldJay

Scofflaw wrote: »

Finally, what the hell is any sane person doing on the side of the kind of crude, lying, low-lives that would make this kind of racist vomit?

Its called 'clutching at straws' and is of course, dispicable.

O'Morris

Scofflaw wrote:

(3) If Turkey does accede to the EU (and Germany and France would both prefer that it doesn't), it is not likely to happen before about 2023

It might not be likely to happen before 2023 but according to this the earliest it could happen is 2013.

The earliest date that Turkey could enter the EU is 2013, the date when the next financial perspectives (the EU's six year budgetary perspectives) will come into force. Ankara is currently aiming to comply with EU law by this date

OldJay

K-9 wrote: »

Prove it isn't true

Plenty of seats available at various dates on Turkish Airlines for a start (www.thy.com).

Scofflaw

O'Morris wrote: »

It might not be likely to happen before 2023 but according to this the earliest it could happen is 2013.

Turkey has no chance of completing in 4 years - nor would there be any point in doing so, since both Sarkozy and Merkel are opposed to accession.

By the way, do you ever read to the end of a paragraph? Or do you just assume no-one will bother reading the link?

The earliest date that Turkey could enter the EU is 2013, the date when the next financial perspectives (the EU's six year budgetary perspectives) will come into force. Ankara is currently aiming to comply with EU law by this date, but Brussels has refused to back 2013 as a deadline. It is believed that the accession process will take at least until 2021.

Really, O'Morris, that puts you rather further in the direction of the video than I would have thought you were comfortable with.

cordially,
Scofflaw

eightyfish

Thanks for that link.

I'm annoyed by two things. Firstly that someone would make this fake racist propaganda, and secondly that that person was clever enough to think of this idea.

OldJay

eightyfish wrote: »

I'm annoyed by two things. Firstly that someone would make this fake racist propaganda, and secondly that that person was clever enough to think of this idea.

There are plenty of ideas to be found and scraped up in the bottom of the barrel.

ei.sdraob

eightyfish wrote: »

Thanks for that link.

I'm annoyed by two things. Firstly that someone would make this fake racist propaganda, and secondly that that person was clever enough to think of this idea.

U haven't seen UKIP leaflet so and using a turkey to demean a whole country of Turkey

http://www.euinfo.ie/uploads/file/LT2-hi-q.pdf

ParkRunner

Does anyone actually know what the lady is saying in the news report? Is it an accurate translation?

The video is remarkably similar to this:

K-9

O'Morris wrote: »

It might not be likely to happen before 2023 but according to this the earliest it could happen is 2013.

Wonder how the Charter of Fundamental Rights will go down with Turkey?

turgon

Scofflaw wrote: »

(1) Lisbon has nothing to do with Turkish accession - there is no cap on numbers in Lisbon, so accession will be just as possible with a No vote as a Yes vote, it makes no difference.

Surely you mean Nice here?

thebman

If you see crap like this on Youtube, instead of posting it here, please flag it on Youtube so they can remove it.

We all know its lies. The comments section is evidence enough only loons will agree with the video.

O'Morris

Scofflaw wrote:

Turkey has no chance of completing in 4 years

So why is the Turkish government aiming to comply with EU law by 2013? They must have some reason to believe they'll have a chance of completing it by that date.

Scofflaw wrote:

By the way, do you ever read to the end of a paragraph? Or do you just assume no-one will bother reading the link?

I've already admitted that Turkish accession is not likely to happen before the 2020s. I just thought it was worth pointing out that Turkey could be eligible to join the EU within the next five years.
http://www.eubusiness.com/news-eu/1234444622.24/

Scofflaw wrote:

Really, O'Morris, that puts you rather further in the direction of the video than I would have thought you were comfortable with.

I wasn't commenting on the video, I was just responding to your comment that Turkey's entry to the EU is not likely to happen until 2023. I think it would be more accurate to say that Turkish accession, if it's going to happen and if the Lisbon treaty gets passed, will probably happen some time between 2013 and 2025. If the Lisbon treaty is rejected then Turkish accession is less likely to happen within the next ten years. The EU needs the Lisbon treaty to facilitate the kind of enlargement that Turkey's accession would represent.

k-9 wrote:

Wonder how the Charter of Fundamental Rights will go down with Turkey?

I can't see it being a major obstacle for them. If they've done everything required to comply with EU law then I can't see them having a major problem with the charter of fundamental rights.

BlitzKrieg

HAHA!

the guy who posted it has Coir posters as his background on his youtube account.


But yeah pretty nasty sh*t there.

thebman

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

HAHA!

the guy who posted it has Coir posters as his background on his youtube account.


But yeah pretty nasty sh*t there.

lol @ his website
http://irish-nationalism.net/forum/

roosh

ya, that sort of stuff doesn't help anyone, although I would question how serious it was intended to be

eightyfish

thebman wrote: »

lol @ his website
http://irish-nationalism.net/forum/

STRATEGIES OF THE HOMOSEXUAL MOVEMENT: "The Overhauling of Straight America"

The following article titled "The Overhauling of Straight America'' was written by Marshall K. Kirk and Erastes Pill and appeared in Guide Magazine, a homosexual publication, in November 1987. This landmark article has become a "bible" of the homosexual movement, and has since been widely re-published on the Internet and elsewhere. It outlines strategies and techniques for a successful widespread propaganda campaign to confuse and deceive the American people and demonize opponents. Like all propaganda, their methods are based not on solid intellectual arguments, but instead upon emotional manipulation of the public in an attempt to gain widespread sympathy and approval for homosexual behavior.
As you read this, keep in mind that it was written in 1987 -- less than two decades ago -- and look around to see how far the homosexual movement has gotten using these techniques.

Bloody hell. Link.

eightyfish

(sorry for double post)

Just searched for this article. First hits are The Traditional Values Coalition, a far-right catholic organisation who oppose Obama's plan for universal healthcare and say

"The homosexual activist movement has been working for three decades to deliberately overhaul straight America into an affirming culture of homosexual behaviors. The goal has been to vilify any opponents of homosexuality and to portray homosexuals as “victims” of intolerance, hate, and bigotry. The primary objective has been to use the media and the schools to promote the agenda."

A lot of other homophobic pro-life anti-liberal American Christian groups follow. Interesting that this article is discussed by these groups and nationalist anti-liberal right-wing republicans also.

BlitzKrieg

the flaw is the choosing of the date

1987???

Considering the gay rights movmenet has existed since the 19th century. It stinks of one of those articles that think being gay is only a recent phenomenon.

Someone was telling me there was an interview with the public just after Poland joined the EU and the first ever Gay Pride parade occured in Warsaw and someone of them seriously thought there were no gay people in poland before the EU.

RandomName2

Scofflaw wrote: »

I find this sort of thing quite nauseating.
nauseated,
Scofflaw

Then send your complaint to AlJazerra or whoever published this. It's got nothing to do with the Irish referendum. It's clearly not produced by anybody in western Europe. Although the whole point of the post was to implicate the 'no' side as being racist, wasn't it?

And I suppose Sinn Fein is - if it is racist to be anti-English.

BlitzKrieg

Then send your complaint to AlJazerra or whoever published this. It's got nothing to do with the Irish referendum. It's clearly not produced by anybody in western Europe. Although the whole point of the post was to implicate the 'no' side as being racist, wasn't it?

uhmm the person who uploaded it is from the irish nationalist forum, has coir posters across his profile page (http://www.youtube.com/user/Tirbrath) and has numerous videos on the dangers of immigration.

Not to mention the subtitling on the video are not linked to the origial video so quite frankly anyone can put them on it and judging by the half arsed process they were put on I would probably bet it was done by the person who uploaded the video or other homemade account rather then anything else.

Also the font used to write the subtitles is the same font used to write *vote no* at the end, judging by its style it would be one of the defaults that come with the adobe premiere package.

zenno

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

uhmm the person who uploaded it is from the irish nationalist forum, has coir posters across his profile page (http://www.youtube.com/user/Tirbrath) and has numerous videos on the dangers of immigration.

Not to mention the subtitling on the video are not linked to the origial video so quite frankly anyone can put them on it and judging by the half arsed process they were put on I would probably bet it was done by the person who uploaded the video or other homemade account rather then anything else.

Also the font used to write the subtitles is the same font used to write *vote no* at the end, judging by its style it would be one of the defaults that come with the adobe premiere package.

I will agree with one thing and that is, coir should be extracted from the lisbon treaty compleatly and deleted imo. well that other thing would be cs4.

Scofflaw

RandomName2 wrote: »

Then send your complaint to AlJazerra or whoever published this. It's got nothing to do with the Irish referendum. It's clearly not produced by anybody in western Europe. Although the whole point of the post was to implicate the 'no' side as being racist, wasn't it?

And I suppose Sinn Fein is - if it is racist to be anti-English.

In fact, the "point" was really just that I found it appalling, and indicative of a particular mentality in the debate on Europe, and thus relevant. I certainly don't think it applies to the entire No side - that inference is entirely your own - and I'm afraid it isn't the work of "AlJazeera or whoever", either.

I'm not even sure why you think Al Jazeera would produce something like this - they're a news network - or why you're certain that it's "clearly not produced by anybody in western Europe". I presume the footage is Turkish TV, but the captions very clearly aren't, and the point of the resulting video isn't the crowd scenes at a Turkish airport.

puzzled,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Folks, if you want to discuss the video, that's what this thread is about. If you want to discuss something else, then discuss it in another thread.

Off-topic posts deleted.

moderately,
Scofflaw

Amberman

I dont think anything else needs to be said

eightyfish

Just showed this vid to my other half. She burst out laughing at the sold-out Ireland maps and said it was such an obvious fake joke that it must be made by the yes side to make the no side look stupid.

ei.sdraob

eightyfish wrote: »

Just showed this vid to my other half. She burst out laughing at the sold-out Ireland maps and said it was such an obvious fake joke that it must be made by the yes side to make the no side look stupid.

she never heard of Occam's razor?


/

The Volt

I think we should make the people of Turkey aware of the UKIP's racist, sick leaflet distribution and see what kind of a response they give

ei.sdraob

Voltwad wrote: »

I think we should make the people of Turkey aware of the UKIP's racist, sick leaflet distribution and see what kind of a response they give

is there a Turkish equivalent of boards.ie?

I think the people there deserve to see the racist crap being send to our homes

by these unelected elites from Britain


/

The Volt

ei.sdraob wrote: »

is there a Turkish equivalent of boards.ie?

I think the people there deserve to see the racist crap being send to our homes

by these unelected elites from Britain


/

*runs to google*

ei.sdraob

Voltwad wrote: »

*runs to google*

Whats really sickening

is that Turkish people might think

that we in Ireland are racist *****

when in fact these leaflets are being sent by certain scumbags from another country


:mad:

The Volt

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Whats really sickening

is that Turkish people might think

that we in Ireland are racist *****

when in fact these leaflets are being sent by certain scumbags from another country


:mad:

http://www.forumturkiye.com/

Only problem is that it's in Turkey. How are we going to approach this?

Scofflaw

Only problem is that it's in Turkey. How are we going to approach this?

My advice would be not to do it. That Irish people produce this kind of stuff is bad enough, without those of us who are against it putting it under Turkish people's noses. People like that are unrepresentative of Ireland - the place to make that clear would be on Youtube.

cordially,
Scofflaw

eightyfish

ei.sdraob wrote: »

she never heard of Occam's razor?

She doesn't shave.

The Volt

Scofflaw wrote: »

My advice would be not to do it. That Irish people produce this kind of stuff is bad enough, without those of us who are against it putting it under Turkish people's noses. People like that are unrepresentative of Ireland - the place to make that clear would be on Youtube.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Point taken, I just feel they've a right to know what they're being depicted as etc

DaSilva

Scofflaw wrote: »

Finally, what the hell is any sane person doing on the side of the kind of crude, lying, low-lives that would make this kind of racist vomit?

Scofflaw, are you saying that because there are morons on the 'vote no' side, that people should vote yes just to distance themselves from these people? This is the same "anything to get you to vote my way" approach the morons who made that video are taking.

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Also the font used to write the subtitles is the same font used to write *vote no* at the end, judging by its style it would be one of the defaults that come with the adobe premiere package.

Another big clue, is that the news caster is speaking Arabic, and Arabic is not very common in Turkey. Also you can make out that she mentions "Frankfurt", "Kurdistan" and "Turkiye" but never mentions Ireland or Dublin.

Also the news agency is Saudi Arabian as far as a I know.

ei.sdraob wrote: »

Whats really sickening

is that Turkish people might think

that we in Ireland are racist *****

I wouldn't worry about it much, there has already been plenty to damage our reputation in the past, I don't know if you remember the GAMA and "kebabs" things a few years back.

Scofflaw

DaSilva wrote: »

Scofflaw, are you saying that because there are morons on the 'vote no' side, that people should vote yes just to distance themselves from these people? This is the same "anything to get you to vote my way" approach the morons who made that video are taking.

No, it was simply an expression of revulsion. Nobody who votes No necessarily has any art, part, or connection with the kind of people who made this video - but on the other hand, I would certainly have a problem with anyone who defends the kind of tactics that have emerged in this referendum.

DaSilva wrote: »

Another big clue, is that the news caster is speaking Arabic, and Arabic is not very common in Turkey. Also you can make out that she mentions "Frankfurt", "Kurdistan" and "Turkiye" but never mentions Ireland or Dublin.

Also the news agency is Saudi Arabian as far as a I know.

I wouldn't worry about it much, there has already been plenty to damage our reputation in the past, I don't know if you remember the GAMA and "kebabs" things a few years back.

Good point. Makes one think, though, that this sort of thinking is more endemic than one might like.

I see the taxi posters follow the same kind of line - the turkey on the posters is a very obvious reference.

cordially,
Scofflaw

MrMatisse

Im a no voter and i find that video ridiculous.

Posted to paint all no voters as right wing loons.

More empty hyperbole from the yes side.

http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/euro-federalists-bully-us-and-buy-our-vote-44635.html

Great article in todays sunday business post on the treaty. Typical left wing nutters that they are.

Scofflaw

Really-Stressed wrote: »

Im a no voter and i find that video ridiculous.

Posted to paint all no voters as right wing loons.

More empty hyperbole from the yes side.

http://www.sbpost.ie/commentandanalysis/euro-federalists-bully-us-and-buy-our-vote-44635.html

Great article in todays sunday business post on the treaty. Typical left wing nutters that they are.

It's not posted "to paint all no voters as right wing loons". Get over the idea that absolutely everything is an attempt to paint someone or other as something or other.

It's a video that demonstrates a particular attitude - to Turkey, to immigration, to truth - that has surfaced in this referendum. It's not a joke, or a false flag operation.

regards,
Scofflaw

MrMatisse

Scofflaw wrote: »

It's not posted "to paint all no voters as right wing loons". Get over the idea that absolutely everything is an attempt to paint someone or other as something or other.

regards,
Scofflaw

well i cant figure out why else youd start a whole new thread on it only to do that.

GroundHog

Scofflaw wrote: »

I wouldn't usually post a Video OP (or any video) but this deserves special treatment:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_gfc2IP1Hc

For those who can't see the video, it shows some kind of crowd scene at a Turkish airport, and features the following captions:



I find this sort of thing quite nauseating. It's also full of unintentional irony: first, the "missplling" (sic) in the caption about the misspelling, but more importantly, the map shown is of the Eastern Med, which, along with the tear in it, suggests that the scenes shown probably relate to Cyprus - the main reason why Turkey can't get into the EU.

To reiterate for those who are under a misapprehension:

(1) Lisbon has nothing to do with Turkish accession - there is no cap on numbers in Nice, so accession will be just as possible with a No vote as a Yes vote, it makes no difference.

(2) Turkey has currently completed only 1 chapter of 35 chapters that need to be negotiated before entry, and 8 chapters are currently blocked by the issue of Cyprus, and cannot be negotiated at all.

(3) If Turkey does accede to the EU (and Germany and France would both prefer that it doesn't), it is not likely to happen before about 2023, and even then there's likely to be at least a decade of 'transition' before Turks would be allowed freedom of movement.

Finally, what the hell is any sane person doing on the side of the kind of crude, lying, low-lives that would make this kind of racist vomit?

nauseated,
Scofflaw

Scofflaw

Really-Stressed wrote: »

well i cant figure out why else youd start a whole new thread on it only to do that.

Then perhaps you ought to broaden your outlook beyond the confines of winning a Yes or No vote.

regards,
Scofflaw

MrMatisse

well thats not something id do on a thread devoted to such.

BlitzKrieg

video has been taken down by user

did someone report him?

thebman

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

video has been taken down by user

did someone report him?

Yeah me, first time I've reported a yt video too.

Just a little too crazy and wrong. I reported it for being racist.

I'm sure he'll have a new one up about yt censorship in a week.

BlitzKrieg

its the second lisbon video that has been taken down that I wrote a list of errors in the video that have been taken down

rumour

Scofflaw wrote: »

Turkey has no chance of completing in 4 years - nor would there be any point in doing so, since both Sarkozy and Merkel are opposed to accession.

By the way, do you ever read to the end of a paragraph? Or do you just assume no-one will bother reading the link?



Really, O'Morris, that puts you rather further in the direction of the video than I would have thought you were comfortable with.

cordially,
Scofflaw

Well at least we agree on some points. Merkel(Germany) and Sarkozy(France) have the final say with or without Lisbon.