oh dear god, Libertas at it again

ei.sdraob

do these people have any shame

see new poster

w00t

ei.sdraob wrote: »

do these people have any shame

see new poster

What would you like them to do? Put up Yes Posters? :rolleyes:

BlitzKrieg

the eyes are very creepy...

almost........lizard like.

What would you like them to do? Put up Yes Posters?

well this is called fearmongering, personnally I rather neither side did it. But libertas seem to skate the fine line of doing it almost as bad as Coir (who are undoubtable the worse) yet somehow looking respectable in comparison...

On a side note why is it considered Irish democracy starts at 1916? I mean if you want to go legally you would put down the creation of the state, or if you want to go with the idea of irish democracy then there are numerous events before 1916. Poor old Wolfe Tone got snubbed.

w00t

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

the eyes are very creepy...

almost........lizard like.



well this is called fearmongering, personnally I rather neither side did it. But libertas seem to skate the fine line of doing it almost as bad as Coir (who are undoubtable the worse) yet somehow looking respectable in comparison...

Democracy. You have to love it but sometimes hate it. Like most things now it is all marketing and PR. Getting ones point across is now about the gloss rather than the content, sadly. The peoples fault which is even sadder.

CCCP^

Ah would you ever **** off, have you seen the balls of the Yes campaign turning Lisbon into something a referendum on jobs and staying in the EU? Both sides are full of ****e to be perfectly honest.

Scofflaw

Is this the first image of a crying child to be used? Or did I miss an earlier one? I know the first referendum had the microchipped baby.

amused,
Scofflaw

Daftendirekt

That is incredibly creepy. What's the point the image is trying to make?

Edit: Nevermind, I see that she's crying now. Lovely.

Daftendirekt

Next time I see anyone accusing FF and the like of fearmongering with their 'Yes to jobs' nonsense I'm linking to this thread.

Shameless.

Jumpy

lol Democracy

moondogspot

CCCP^ wrote: »

Ah would you ever **** off, have you seen the balls of the Yes campaign turning Lisbon into something a referendum on jobs and staying in the EU? Both sides are full of ****e to be perfectly honest.

I have to agree with you. The way the Yes side are trying to portray themselves as honest

people shocked at the no campaign is hilarious. As if butter wouldn't melt in their mouths. They

ain't fooling nobody.

evercloserunion

Jaysus, is that a picture of one of the alien lizard-children the EU will send to abort us if we vote Yes?

She feckin looks it.

K-9

They really are IKIP.

MikeC101

K-9 wrote: »

They really are IKIP.

You mean UKIP ? Or is it an acronym I don't know?

Interestingly, google tells me IKIP means International Kuril Island Project. The next Libertas campaign perhaps.

rebelmind

I doubt it will change many minds, but who knows.
I saw a poster of an ecstatic looking female on a yes poster yesterday, equally as creepy, I thought.

Scofflaw

If you missed the dates, you might simply come away with the message "Irish Democracy? Vote No!".

still amused,
Scofflaw

meglome

w00t wrote: »

What would you like them to do? Put up Yes Posters? :rolleyes:

Okay I'll try this again.

Europe for Jobs, Europe for the Economy etc are rubbish slogans, but the things they imply may happen. Personally I dislike these ****e posters.

On the other hand... 'Irish Democracy 1916-2009?' is not something that could happen. There is no threat to our democracy in Lisbon. They EU have never done anything to threaten our democracy, not in 36 years. I hate this poster because it contains a rubbish slogan and also an implicit lie, which is far worse than the Yes posters.

I'm sorry the distinction is lost on some people. I also hope that these same tactics are not used against you in the future on something you support, you made that bed and eventually you might have to lie in it.

BlitzKrieg

Scofflaw wrote: »

If you missed the dates, you might simply come away with the message "Irish Democracy? Vote No!".

still amused,
Scofflaw

or if you suffer some forms of colour blindness maybe?

andrewdeerpark

From today's Indo, and as I said in another post:

http://www.independent.ie/breaking-news/world-news/asia/bin-laden-warns-of-retaliation-against-europe-1897284.html

If we are next on the terrorist hitlist

Maybe she is worried about our crap army and navy after our isolationist NO vote.

Or maybe Declan can sell us some gear to defend ourselves.

Daftendirekt

Honest question for No voters:

Would this poster make you more inclined to believe Lisbon will somehow strip Ireland of its democracy or would it just give you the impression that Libertas are an extremely sinister organisation?

w00t

meglome wrote: »

Okay I'll try this again.

Europe for Jobs, Europe for the Economy etc are rubbish slogans, but the things they imply may happen. Personally I dislike these ****e posters.

On the other hand... 'Irish Democracy 1916-2009?' is not something that could happen. There is no threat to our democracy in Lisbon. They EU have never done anything to threaten our democracy, not in 36 years. I hate this poster because it contains a rubbish slogan and also an implicit lie, which is far worse than the Yes posters.

I'm sorry the distinction is lost on some people. I also hope that these same tactics are not used against you in the future on something you support, you made that bed and eventually you might have to lie in it.

If you look at my other post I stated my belief it is all just PR and marketing. Neither bother with the truth and just selling an agenda.

Scofflaw

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

or if you suffer some forms of colour blindness maybe?

It's not too bad, actually.

http://vischeck.homeip.net/uploads/125391650410230/images/hs246.snc1_9335_525313465814_37300923_31271191_7805215_n.jpg

It would depend on the lighting, I think. I wonder what it looks like under streetlamps?

cordially,
Scofflaw

meglome

w00t wrote: »

If you look at my other post I stated my belief it is all just PR and marketing. Neither bother with the truth and just selling an agenda.

Sure it is all PR and marketing. I am also saying though that the No campaign have really scraped the bottom of the barrel.

w00t

meglome wrote: »

Sure it is all PR and marketing. I am also saying though that the No campaign have really scraped the bottom of the barrel.

I think they have too. But at least they are still saying No.

http://www.dickroche.com/article.php?sid=1069&PHPSESSID=c79aa85144112003b0faaa6131192337

evercloserunion

rebelmind wrote: »

I doubt it will change many minds, but who knows.
I saw a poster of an ecstatic looking female on a yes poster yesterday, equally as creepy, I thought.

Just as creepy perhaps, but if it's the same poster I saw, a fair bit hotter.

humanji

w00t wrote: »

I think they have too. But at least they are still saying No.

http://www.dickroche.com/article.php?sid=1069&PHPSESSID=c79aa85144112003b0faaa6131192337

Well it's unlike anyone even slightly involved in politics to be wrong or change their mind.

http://www.u.tv/News/Declan-Ganley-quits-politics-/89599b42-a6f8-4752-81a3-0cfa080cb3fa

AARRRGH

What about the yes campaigns new poster with a picture of a woman next to the slogan "I'm safer in Europe"...?

I'm sorry, but that is by far the most ****ed up poster of them all.

AARRRGH

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Honest question for No voters:

Would this poster make you more inclined to believe Lisbon will somehow strip Ireland of its democracy or would it just give you the impression that Libertas are an extremely sinister organisation?

In fairness we have already seen the EU have little interest in democracy. We are only getting a vote because our constitution is forcing one, and we didn't vote "correctly" so we have to vote again. You just know if the no camp win we'll have to vote again.

So while I think their poster is kind of stupid they have a point somewhat that repeating the vote until the right option is selected is not quite democratic.

K-9

AARRRGH wrote: »

What about the yes campaigns new poster with a picture of a woman next to the slogan "I'm safer in Europe"...?

I'm sorry, but that is by far the most ****ed up poster of them all.

Well, like the Vote yes for jobs line, the Referendum Commission dismissed lines like this. Ganley pointed this out and relied on the Commission. The Commission also pointed out direct taxation, Neutrality, Family Law, Defence, Health and Education are not affected.

AARRRGH

K-9 wrote: »

Well, like the Vote yes for jobs line, the Referendum Commission dismissed lines like this. Ganley pointed this out and relied on the Commission. The Commission also pointed out direct taxation, Neutrality, Family Law, Defence, Health and Education are not affected.

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding your reply, but my interpretation of the "I'm safer in Europe" poster is they are attempting to tap into many women's fear of assault/abuse. You know, voting no will make you unsafe.

Daftendirekt

AARRRGH wrote: »

In fairness we have already seen the EU have little interest in democracy. We are only getting a vote because our constitution is forcing one, and we didn't vote "correctly" so we have to vote again. You just know if the no camp win we'll have to vote again.

So while I think their poster is kind of stupid they have a point somewhat that repeating the vote until the right option is selected is not quite democratic.

Are you saying the EU should be allowed to step in and overrule our constitutional requirement for a referendum?

Last time I checked, it was the Oireachtas who called the second referendum on Lisbon.

AARRRGH

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Are you saying the EU should be allowed to step in and overrule our constitutional requirement for a referendum?

No, that's not what I'm saying.

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Last time I checked, it was the Oireachtas who called the second referendum on Lisbon.

You think they decided that on their own or do you think there was immense pressure from the EU?

K-9

AARRRGH wrote: »

Sorry, maybe I'm misunderstanding your reply, but my interpretation of the "I'm safer in Europe" poster is they are attempting to tap into many women's fear of assault/abuse. You know, voting no will make you unsafe.

Huh?

Its a response to the Neutrality question. Nothing to do with assault/abuse. Why would it be a response to assault/abuse?

AARRRGH

K-9 wrote: »

Huh?

Its a response to the Neutrality question. Nothing to do with assault/abuse. Why would it be a response to assault/abuse?

Obviously on a simple level you can make the connection to neutrality or something like that, but I don't believe the marketing people were being that basic.

Two female friends of mine associated it with "safety". I believe that was the intention of the advert. You know, tapping into many women's fear of assault, etc.

Daftendirekt

AARRRGH wrote: »

No, that's not what I'm saying.




You think they decided that on their own or do you think there was immense pressure from the EU?

Well, it seems to me that the government themselves are pretty determined to ratify Lisbon.

Although obviously, there is an element of pressure, with 26 other member states wanting to press on, and the need to get Lisbon ratified before November, to make use of our Commission guarantee.

AARRRGH

Daftendirekt wrote: »

Well, it seems to me that the government themselves are pretty determined to ratify Lisbon.

Although obviously, there is an element of pressure, with 26 other member states wanting to press on, and the need to get Lisbon ratified before November, to make use of our Commission guarantee.

I do believe the government want it too.

That alone makes me suspicious though.

Our government have proven again and again that the interest of the country is not high on their agenda, e.g., NAMA.

K-9

AARRRGH wrote: »

Obviously on a simple level you can make the connection to neutrality or something like that, but I don't believe the marketing people were being that basic.

Two female friends of mine associated it with "safety". I believe that was the intention of the advert. You know, tapping into many women's fear of assault, etc.

Safety means Neutrality, in Ireland especially. We aren't the States.

Look, I'd contribute to another female dominated site and yes, the "Sending our children out to war" line does resonate. Far more than we like to think.

It may appeal to both, but sure it's a poster.

We all know what the "Vote Yes to keep our Commissioner" poster meant.

Daftendirekt

AARRRGH wrote: »

I do believe the government want it too.

That alone makes me suspicious though.

Our government have proven again and again that the interest of the country is not high on their agenda, e.g., NAMA.

But Fine Gael and Labour are also in favour of it. Neither of them want NAMA.

And by the way, doesn't it make you even more suspicious, that Cóir, Sinn Féin, Libertas and UKIP are all calling for a No?

AARRRGH

K-9 wrote: »

Safety means Neutrality, in Ireland especially. We aren't the States.

Look, I'd contribute to another female dominated site and yes, the "Sending our children out to war" line does resonate. Far more than we like to think.

I think you're being a bit naive about how advertisers play into people's fears and use subliminal messaging. But that's cool, we can agree to disagree.

Maybe I've misunderstood what you meant to say...

Daftendirekt

K-9 wrote: »

Safety means Neutrality, in Ireland especially. We aren't the States.

Look, I'd contribute to another female dominated site and yes, the "Sending our children out to war" line does resonate. Far more than we like to think.

It may appeal to both, but sure it's a poster.

If this is what they do in fact mean by safety (and I have no idea if they do) , then it's a very good point.

As Pat Cox said, it will be the first time ever Irish neutrality is written into law.

K-9

AARRRGH wrote: »

I think you're being a bit naive about how advertisers play into people's fears and use subliminal messaging. But that's cool, we can agree to disagree.

Maybe I've misunderstood what you meant to say...

It's a poster.

You interpret it one way, I interpret it another.

Did the female you referred to :eek: have children?

AARRRGH

Daftendirekt wrote: »

But Fine Gael and Labour are also in favour of it. Neither of them want NAMA.

And by the way, doesn't it make you even more suspicious, that Cóir, Sinn Féin, Libertas and UKIP are all calling for a No?

I guess I am just suspicious of people who want power. They nearly never have the right intentions, so when I see our politicians all drooling over Lisbon, I can't help but think it's not in our interest to vote it in.

I agree Coir, Sinn Fein, etc. don't exactly inspire confidence in why we should vote no, but FF definitely don't inspire confidence to vote yes. IMO FF are the scummiest of the scum in Ireland.

AARRRGH

K-9 wrote: »

It's a poster.

You interpret it one way, I interpret it another.

Did the female you referred to :eek: have children?

No they don't have children, but they did associate the poster with assault.

Anyway, who cares. I think everyone agrees both the yes and the no side have ridiculous crap on their posters.

K-9

AARRRGH wrote: »

I guess I am just suspicious of people who want power. They nearly never have the right intentions, so when I see our politicians all drooling over Lisbon, I can't help but think it's not in our interest to vote it in.

I agree Coir, Sinn Fein, etc. don't exactly inspire confidence in why we should vote no, but FF definitely don't inspire confidence to vote yes. IMO FF are the scummiest of the scum in Ireland.

Forget politicians.

SIPTU, ICTU, EUTUC, IFA, KFA, ITI, Ryanair, David Quinn, IBEC, Chambers of Commerce, Intel?

Even the Catholic Church says you can vote either way.

Why do such a BROAD spectrum of interests agree and why do the extremes agree on a No?

K-9

AARRRGH wrote: »

No they don't have children, but they did associate the poster with assault.

Anyway, who cares. I think everyone agrees both the yes and the no side have ridiculous crap on their posters.

Ahhhhh, exactly.

The poster means one thing to women with no kids and another to Mothers?

Fair point?

AARRRGH

K-9 wrote: »

Forget politicians.

SIPTU, ICTU, EUTUC, IFA, KFA, ITI, Ryanair, David Quinn, IBEC, Chambers of Commerce, Intel?

Even the Catholic Church says you can vote either way.

Why do such a BROAD spectrum of interests agree and why do the extremes agree on a No?

Well the trade unions don't do much for me :pac: but I agree it's interesting that it's mostly the extemists who want a no vote.

I'm going to vote no though, for a couple of reasons but the main one being that we voted "wrong" last time so have to vote again. That's unacceptable in my book.

bertiewooster

Just want to say i voted yes last time but will vote NO this time,These posters that say vote yes for jobs is bull,what about the 2,000 jobs in Dell Limerick plus all the subsid companies who closed down because of that,in excess of 5000 jobs lost all around the country because the EU gave Dell over 100 million help in setting up in Poland and another 57 million last week.So tell me why we should vote yes,if the EU is paying companies to relocate out of Ireland to other European countries.

AARRRGH

K-9 wrote: »

Ahhhhh, exactly.

The poster means one thing to women with no kids and another to Mothers?

Fair point?

I have no idea.

My point is I think it is a sneaky poster, so it's not just the no people who are being manipulative.

K-9

AARRRGH wrote: »

I have no idea.

My point is I think it is a sneaky poster, so it's not just the no people who are being manipulative.

There are provisions in the Treaty to make women safer. Big difference. Prostitution and people trafficking.

Scofflaw

bertiewooster wrote: »

Just want to say i voted yes last time but will vote NO this time,These posters that say vote yes for jobs is bull,what about the 2,000 jobs in Dell Limerick plus all the subsid companies who closed down because of that,in excess of 5000 jobs lost all around the country because the EU gave Dell over 100 million help in setting up in Poland and another 57 million last week.So tell me why we should vote yes,if the EU is paying companies to relocate out of Ireland to other European countries.

The EU didn't give Dell that money - Poland gave Dell that money. The only thing the EU did was check that it wasn't distortion of competition.

We were outbid and undercut. If we hadn't spent the last decade relentlessly driving the cost of living here up by selling each other over-priced houses, we'd be keeping Dell.

cordially,
Scofflaw

moondogspot

bertiewooster wrote: »

Just want to say i voted yes last time but will vote NO this time,These posters that say vote yes for jobs is bull,what about the 2,000 jobs in Dell Limerick plus all the subsid companies who closed down because of that,in excess of 5000 jobs lost all around the country because the EU gave Dell over 100 million help in setting up in Poland and another 57 million last week.So tell me why we should vote yes,if the EU is paying companies to relocate out of Ireland to other European countries.

You certainly do have a point. I find it very strange myself.

bertiewooster

i think you should check your facts properly the Eu did allocate that money to Dell