Gears while stopping?

**Timbuk2**

Didn't think this was suitable for the 'Learning to Drive' forum as I am not a learner driver, and this question is more concerned with the technical side rather than the 'rules' side.

If I driving along, say in 4th gear, and I see red lights up ahead and I know I will have to stop. The theory is that you just stop in whatever gear you are in (gears to go, brakes to slow). So in theory, I should just press the brake pedal until I am nearly stopped, and then depress the clutch before actually stopping, even if I'm in 4th gear, right?

But while I am braking, I am still in 4th gear, but slowing down the car. Is the 4th gear not trying to get the car to move, while my braking is slowing down the car down to a speed that is too low fo 4th gear. Is this not bad for the transmission as the 4th gear is trying to move the car?

Sorry for the slightly confusing question - years ago my driving instructor told me not to change down gears while stopping.

maidhc

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

Sorry for the slightly confusing question - years ago my driving instructor told me not to change down gears while stopping.

You had a rubbish instructor. When you are coming to a normal i.e. not emergency, stop 2nd gear would be the normal gear to finish up in.

SV

I go down the gears.
I believe everyone should..
I hate that "Gears to go, brakes to slow" saying..yes, maybe if you're a learner driver but not any other time.

Zube

maidhc wrote: »

You had a rubbish instructor.

No, I think most driving instructors would agree. Mine always said brake pads were cheaper than clutches.

I think that the Advanced Driving crew advise you to use all the gears down to 2nd when coming to a stop, but they talk a lot of wheel shuffling cobblers, IMNSHO.

P.C.

I gear down - two reasons:

1.) my father taught me to gear down, and to drive checking the rev counter.

2.) if the situation changes, and I want to get going again, I want to be in the correct gear.

Alanstrainor

I would tend to stop in what ever gear i'm in provided it's a certainty that i am going to stop. If there's a doubt in my mind, i'll change from 4th to 2nd. Changing down through all the gears doesn't really make a lot of sense, perhaps back in the day when breaks were rubbish and every little helped to get the car to stop, but these days i can't see the point. If you need to change down, block change from 4th to 2nd, when at the appropriate revs.

unkel

maidhc wrote: »

When you are coming to a normal i.e. not emergency, stop 2nd gear would be the normal gear to finish up in.

Did your grandpa teach you how to drive?

Back in the day when brakes were poor, they could do with some assistance from the engine braking. I learned to drive about 25 years ago and even back then it had been best practice for years already to come to a stop in whatever gear you were driving in.

This of course if it is certain that you will be stopping. Now, if there is a chance that the light would be green by the time you get there, that's a different story...

congo_90

I tend to brake and then shift down so from 4th. Lights ahead go red. Brake, 3rd, continue on brakes depending on distance I'll either depress clutch to a stop or drop to 2nd in preparation if lights may change to green or just a long stop.

My instructor stopped me using gears to slow. I used to drop into say; 3rd then begin braking. This wasn't smooth or probably good driving so his instructions were good and scored an almost flawless driving test

bladebrew

im so paranoid of fecking up my clutch or gearbox i tend to brake until the revs drop right down then use the clutch, im not sure if its right though,

on americas toughest jobs (or something like that) they were driving the ice road in northern canada and were being told keep their foot off the brakes and downshift to slow the trucks down going down hills,
if they use the brakes it can overheat them!
plus the road is made of snow and ice so i assume it stops them going sideways down the hills:)

high horse

I failed Hibernians Ignition course a few years back because I geared down while driving. The instructor seemed to think it was distracting me from slowing down (don't ask, his words, not mine). Brakes these days are good enough to stop at any speed from any gear, I just gear down as thats how my driving instructor taught me how to drive.

stovelid

I try and gear down if I can.

peasant

What are brakes?

If I'm coming to a planned stop I usually only use the brakes to light up the lights at the back of the car to signal to other traffic that I've indeed stopped.

That is to say I do indeed gear down ...but not to use engine braking as such but because I've been driving momentum driven (read: slow) cars for so long that the hope always lingers that I might not have to stop at all and might just pick up speed from rolling again rather than from standstill

McGrath5

If I see a red light or a traffic jam up ahead I usually put the car into neutral and roll up to the traffic lights/junction.

glaston

I have recently started rev matching when changing down gears, not sure if there is a lot of point to it but it is good when you are dropping a gear in preparation for overtaking, much smoother gear change.

beachlife

Perfect Choice wrote: »

If I see a red light or a traffic jam up ahead I usually put the car into neutral and roll up to the traffic lights/junction.

that wastes alot of petrol!!

joolsveer

beachlife wrote: »

that wastes alot of petrol!!

I believe that coasting is dangerous. You should always be in gear when in motion.

kazul

**Timbuk2** wrote: »

But while I am braking, I am still in 4th gear, but slowing down the car. Is the 4th gear not trying to get the car to move, while my braking is slowing down the car down to a speed that is too low fo 4th gear. Is this not bad for the transmission as the 4th gear is trying to move the car?

Whilst you're braking, you're not accelerating. So the car is not struggling to propel itself against the brakes as you suggest.

McGrath5

beachlife wrote: »

that wastes alot of petrol!!

It does indeed, its a bad habit I got into in the past year or so, I must force myself to stop doing it!!

philiy

I learned to drive 12 years ago and my instructor taught me to gear down, wheather i was coming to a bad in the road or traffic lights.

I still gear down, as said above, brake pads are cheaper then a new transmission.

Plus you are ready in the event of the lights going green as you get closer.

Approching a yield right of way you should gear down and expect the possibility of going around the corner without having to stop.

i hate getting stuck behind someone that is constantly stopping, putting the car back into 1st and then going again, if you shift down you are ready to proceed at all times and it prevents needless stopping

unkel

philiy wrote: »

I still gear down, as said above, brake pads are cheaper then a new transmission.

philiy

unkel wrote: »

I really didnt think that true when I typed it

I also brake but I also gear down at the right moment avoiding damage to my transmission, slowing down by just gearing down would obviously destroy your transmission

Busta Hyman

i beleive gear down as it keeps the car engaged in the correct gear. also to the guy that coasts its SUCH a bad idea as in bad weather ( ice etc) or slippery road (oil / rain) if your in neutral and brake you can and possbly will lock up the wheels. and as for knocking advanced driving courses my instructor was mainly doing training for high risk passengers (i didnt do the course) but some of the stuff he taught would be best practice for car control.

Fishtits

This is just another example of how we are becoming a race by numbers...

You must do this, or you must do that.

What about doing what is best suited based on your common sense assessment of the situation? Your driving instructor should build assessment capabilities into your lessons IMHO.

ie, be aware of your surroundings and react accordingly.

Low friction (ice & snow) is a whole different ball game.

galwaytt

Perfect Choice wrote: »

If I see a red light or a traffic jam up ahead I usually put the car into neutral and roll up to the traffic lights/junction.

That's an instant FAIL on a driving test. And quite rightly so. 'Coasting' is an unstable condition, where you are not driving the car - the car is driving you.

You're also not in a position to take any positive evasive action, if needed to.

Bad idea all round.

galwaytt

philiy wrote: »

I still gear down, as said above, brake pads are cheaper then a new transmission.

...only applies to manuals. Everything else will need the pads, believe me

Funnily enough, the brakes on auto's are sometimes bigger than on the same model in manual.

Eoin

peasant wrote: »

What are brakes?

I want to know what's this clutch thing people are on about? Sounds overly complicated to me.

rex-x

If you factor in the cost of brake pads discs, brake pad wear sensors and brake light bulbs a clutch is the cheaper option

On a serious note I always gear down as you never know when you need a sudden bust of power to get you out of trouble, whether it be from losing traction or some maniac flying up behind you skidding like a nutter :eek: no good dropping the clutch and realising oh crap i'm in fourth and cutting out . . .


On the subject of driving instructors, I had a fight with mine as he insisted I put in the handbrake button while pulling it up as letting it click will wear out the ratchet teeth . . . .




and i believe a clutch is a womans purse/bag? ask in LL to be sure

DublinDilbert

I always gear down, as other posters have said if the situation changes and you need to move your in the correct gear. Its also gives you more control if the ground is slippy / icy, people will say but there's ABS, but not every car has that.


The one thing i'm more amazed at is the fact that instructors tell people to put the car into first when waiting at a set of lights. This just seems mad, cause some sets of lights have a very long cycle, if your foot slips you can jump forward. And almost every set of lights, you'll see when they are going to change and you can be ready to move off in plenty of time. This will lots of unnecessary pressure on the clutch.

Busta Hyman

so i think we all agree that coasting is a bad idea.

with the addition of abs i still feel that gearing down is a better habit because from car to car its a driving method you will bring with you all the time instead of trying to learn from car with abs and without. abs is great but we still shouldent become reliant on these innovations as they do fail sometimes. we still wear seatbelts but we have airbags.

joolsveer

I had never heard the expression "gear down" before so I googled it and this is what I found.

Gear down

-An expression used to indicate to the receiver that theirs gears (like on a car) are too high, thus they need to relax, slow, chill out, gear down.
Stephan: OMG MAN roll that joint, get some food, man lets go over there, hey hand me your lighter, wheres that L? Liam likes boys..

http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Gear%20down

Ciaran500

philiy wrote: »

slowing down by just gearing down would obviously destroy your transmission

Why?

Sofiztikated

Of course gear down.

And to all saying "Well, brakes are cheaper than a clutch," STFU!

If you left the car sitting on your driveway, that'd be cheaper than driving it, think of all the petrol you'd save. They are all consumables, its part of driving. Yes, do what you can to limit their wear, but FFS.

Gearing down, while braking, gets you into the correct gear for your speed, and be able to correct your position if needed immediately, without wasting seconds going for the right gear.

If you slowing to a stop at traffic lights, they were just after going amber, then red, and you look in the rear view, and there was car behind you. Check again, and its clear he isn't paying attention, what are you going to do?

Sit there and wait for him to rearend you? (Yes, I know it would be his fault, insurance wise) or be able to move to avoid it? Which would it be able to move easier in? The 2nd gear you are already in, or going from 4th down to second, then getting the revs up and moving?

Alanstrainor

No one is saying that gearing down isn't an essential skill, and one that is used all the time, the point is that when coming to a complete stop, and it's clear you're going to have to stop i'd stop in the gear i was in.

Sofiztikated wrote: »

If you slowing to a stop at traffic lights, they were just after going amber, then red, and you look in the rear view, and there was car behind you. Check again, and its clear he isn't paying attention, what are you going to do?

That's one hell of a weird situation alright, and what are you going to do? Drive into the junction you're supposed to keep clear of? Rear end the person infront of you?
It's all too easy to come up with hypothetical situations that will almost never happen to get your point across...

Maruney

beachlife wrote: »

that wastes alot of petrol!!

How does it?

Zube

Alanstrainor wrote: »

the point is that when coming to a complete stop, and it's clear you're going to have to stop i'd stop in the gear i was in.

It's interesting that different driving instructors teach different things:

a) if you're definitely going to stop, just use your brakes

b) always use all the gears down to 2nd

AugustusMaximus

Busta Hyman wrote: »

i beleive gear down as it keeps the car engaged in the correct gear. also to the guy that coasts its SUCH a bad idea as in bad weather ( ice etc) or slippery road (oil / rain) if your in neutral and brake you can and possbly will lock up the wheels. and as for knocking advanced driving courses my instructor was mainly doing training for high risk passengers (i didnt do the course) but some of the stuff he taught would be best practice for car control.

You are only more likely to lock the wheels while braking if you are applying a greater braking force using the brakes than what engine retardation would give you.

If you are easy on the brakes you are unlikely to lock the wheels in any event.

AugustusMaximus

Maruney wrote: »

How does it?

If you coast, the engine is using petrol to keep it ticking over at 800 to 1000 revs.

If you take your foot off the accelerator and come down through the gear, your engine will be using no petrol as the torque from the wheels will continue to turn the engine over.


I have a habit of of pressing the clutch no matter what gear I'm in and braking to a stop or down to what ever gear I need to get to. It may use up more petrol but it put less stress on the transmission.

biko

I'm guilty of coasting while braking coming up to a red light.
Sometimes use gears to slow but mostly braking. Or a mix.

unkel

Zube wrote: »

It's interesting that different driving instructors teach different things:

a) if you're definitely going to stop, just use your brakes

b) always use all the gears down to 2nd

You see, different driving instructors do not teach different things. Ask some qualified instructors and the overwhelming majority will tell you to use the brakes.

The issue in this country is that most people have learned to drive without using a qualified instructor

DublinDilbert

unkel wrote: »

You see, different driving instructors do not teach different things. Ask some qualified instructors and the overwhelming majority will tell you to use the brakes.

The issue in this country is that most people have learned to drive without using a qualified instructor

Ummmm just cause they are "qualified", doesn't mean they are always right or safe. Generally the instructors teach what the testers want to see on the test.

Like the example i gave earlier about keeping the car in first gear when waiting at a set of lights, that's dangerous in my opinion. Some cars can have a very heavy clutch, which can leave you with a sore leg, or make your foot more likely to slip off.

Even some of the stuff from the RSA doesn't make any sense. Like all the extra questions they added to the theory test, with loads of errors in them, and some that are just plain silly.

unkel

DublinDilbert wrote: »

Ummmm just cause they are "qualified", doesn't mean they are always right or safe. Generally the instructors teach what the testers want to see on the test.

That's a fair point. I'm the first to admit that there are several things that I do that are against instructions and that would fail me the driving test, i.e. on a single carriageway I always overtake at maximum acceleration, causing me to break the speed limit more often than not. Just because I feel it is safer to do so than to overtake within the speed limit. That said, in the case in this thread I can't see any reason why it would be better or safer not to stop in the gear.

cyclopath2001

rex-x wrote: »

I always gear down as you never know when you need a sudden bust of power to get you out of trouble, .

Same here, but I use a little bit of brake so as to get the brake light on, letting people know I'm slowing. Was taught to be always be in a gear that allowed the car to be controlled/driven.

rex-x wrote: »

On the subject of driving instructors, I had a fight with mine as he insisted I put in the handbrake button while pulling it up as letting it click will wear out the ratchet teeth . . . .

Think I read somewhere about some cars' hand-brakes accidentally dis-engaging while parked because they were not latched on a ratchet when pulled up?

mickdw

Anyone who doesnt gear down in step with their speed in a dangerous driver. It is lunacy to get into that habit.
Take the example of an emergency situation, you might have to brake suddenly, swerve and keep control. Now doing this by changing down instinctively while on the brakes will mean you have a much more responsive car under you which can be balanced on the throttle as such. Compare this to a car which to pulling against you by being in too high a gear and you will see that you have given away much of your opportunity to control the situation. Likewise with a car that is freewheeling, much of the control has been lost.
Why would anyone just come to a stop in a high gear like that? If just slowing down and not stopping do these people drive differently or do they go searching for A gear when its time to speed up again? its madness

cyclopath2001

unkel wrote: »

I always overtake at maximum acceleration, causing me to break the speed limit more often than not. Just because I feel it is safer to do so than to overtake within the speed limit. .

If you can't overtake while keeping within the speed limit, then you shouldn't.

unkel

mickdw wrote: »

Anyone who doesnt gear down in step with their speed in a dangerous driver. It is lunacy to get into that habit.
Take the example of an emergency situation, you might have to brake suddenly, swerve and keep control.

Hold your horses there

We were talking about a situation where it is certain that you will come to a stop without anything happening in the meantime.

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

If you can't overtake while keeping within the speed limit, then you shouldn't.

You're missing my point entirely. In the situations I describe, I could overtake safely within the speed limit, but I feel it is safer to spend less time on the wrong side of the road.

But sorry for the O/T about overtaking. I only used that to agree with and strengthen DublinDilberts point that what a driving instructor says is not per se the best / safest.

Let's be crystal clear about what we are discussing here: you are driving in a gear and it is certain you will be coming to a stop. As with Alainstrainor's point - we are not talking hypothetical situations or meteorite explosions here

DublinDilbert

I don't think anyone else has mentioned this, but I think there's one situation where gearing down definitely makes a difference is when your coming to a yield at a round about. Your never sure if you'll need to stop till you get close to the round about, if your in the correct get you can proceed if the way is clear.

maidhc

unkel wrote: »

Hold your horses there

We were talking about a situation where it is certain that you will come to a stop without anything happening in the meantime.

But the reality is you generally come to a measured stop. I.e. You don't go from 60mph to a standing stop all that often. In normal driving you will often amble up to a junction at 20 or so mph. In which case being in anything above 3rd would have the engine at the bottom of the limiter and chugging (unless of course you are coasting).

As I said above, more often than not 2nd tends to be the correct gear to stop in (not by virtue of any rule, just that is what makes sense in most situations!)

unkel

I couldn't agree more, the reality is that in almost all other situations you should gear down, but in this particular situation where you will come to a stop (and nothing else will happen *air guitar*), gearing down makes no sense (any more)

AugustusMaximus

cyclopath2001 wrote: »

Same here, but I use a little bit of brake so as to get the brake light on, letting people know I'm slowing. Was taught to be always be in a gear that allowed the car to be controlled/driven.

This may be the first time I've ever agreed with you but you are correct.

AugustusMaximus

mickdw wrote: »

Anyone who doesnt gear down in step with their speed in a dangerous driver.

A lot of people could easily put the car in gear and hit the accelerator faster than other could just hit the accelerator.

There is also the chance of being in a mid gear change when needing to apply the power while gearing doing.

So don't say a dangerous driver. Just maybe a bit more dangerous and not very much I'd say.

Mr Benevolent

I'd be thinking about slowing down in 2nd, in case there's a sudden need to accelerate (for avoidance etc). Stand to be corrected though.