Would you tell?

eviltwin

Late last year my brother was arrested for downloading and supplying child pornography. It had been going on for years and while he has been charged at this stage he is yet to go to court.

My mother and his girlfriend are standing by him but I can't. I'm a parent and as such I just cannot remain in contact with him knowing what he has done.

The problem is that my brother and his girlfriend were part of my circle of friends and as no one else outside the family knows whats happened its meant that I have had to have reduced contact with a lot of people I used to see on a regular basis. He's always out with our friends and I can't bring myself to go out if I know he will be there. As a result my social life has taken a major hit.

The official story is we've had a "falling out" which most people seem to be buying but recently one of my friends got quite angry with me because I'm no longer out. She is taking it very personally. But how can I sit in his company knowing what he's done and knowing nobody has any idea

Its gotten to the stage now where I'm being treated like the bad guy whose turning my back on my mates. I know I shouldnt tell anyone the real story ( my mother would kill me ) but the idea of him out being all buddy buddy with everyone while they all think I'm blanking them is making me sick

paperclip2

The thought of having to protect someone like this is actually making me feel physically sick. Theres no way I could bring myself to defend anyone, even family over something like this.

My gut reaction would be to tell them what he's been up to but if thats not an option you could tell them he's done something that utterly repulses you and you cannot stand being in his company. If they ask what it it was then tell them to ask your brother.

Good luck OP.

Lockstep

Are you absolutely positive that he has been engaging in it for years?

You might want to just let things cool off a bit (tell your friends you've had a row and don't want to speak to him without going into specifics), but I'd try and reserve judgement until he has appeared in court. He's your brother so giving him the benefit of the doubt for now might be an idea.


My friend's dad was charged with child porn possession after buying a computer in a car boot sale. He killed himself as he was abondoned and shunned by many people who knew him), it later turned out he was innocent.

Monkey61

That's a really tricky situation OP and I feel for you, but without knowing all the details of the case it is difficult to know exactly what your brother was involved in and to what extent. The fact that his girlfriend is standing by him perhaps suggests that there is more to this case then meets the eye.

To be honest it could have been a hell of a lot worse. I know that there is no excuse for distributing child pornography (obviously), but without knowing the content, we can't really know to what extent your brother was involved in possible exploitation, abuse etc.

What has your brother had to say about all this? Have you spoken to him about it? Is he getting counselling? I am quite surprised that he is out partying away happily with all this hanging over his head and hasn't spoken to you about why you are shunning him and your friends.

wexford202

OP I really don't know if there is anyone that can give advice to you on this one.

I think the subject is just so sensitive and only you will know what is the best thing to do.

Take Care.

Terodil

I agree and would urge some caution here.

Until convicted I think it's anybody's duty to consider him innocent and not to cause any damage on the basis of pure allegations.

I know it's not easy given the severity of the allegations but unless you saw it with your own eyes, I don't think you should be taking any such drastic steps, which could possibly destroy the life of an innocent, your brother.

RossFixxxed

Hang on, I don't wanna go off course but when you say supplying it, do you mean he was on a P2P situation or he was helping MAKE IT?

He is innocent until proven guilty and there could be some reason for it other than the obvious. Only he knows right now. It's a very difficult one, but you could potentially ruin his life if he hasn't done anything.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

It must be a very difficult thing to deal with, I know because my dad is a paedofile and it was very frustrating that all his friends in the pub would say how wrong we were when they met us,

Anyway, I also see an issue you have with your friends because they should not be demanding of you, they should trust you and know you are an adult and living your life the best way for you,

I have experienced this in a gang i used to pal with, I grew out of the drugs scene and they wanted the old me all the time, it didnt work, but il never forget how friends can be like a second family sometimes and people can expect you to be in a role all the time,


I would suggest saying to your mates that it is nothing personal on them but that you need their support and trust right now, and that in a few months you think it will be all sorted, but there is a good reason why you are taking some time out at the min. God its not like you have killed anyone, you have just been spending more time on your own.

Aside from your brother you may like to address the demands of your friends. Good Luck.

LegacyUser

I am a regular on here and I can give you some meaningful advice as I have been through this.

DO NOT PROTECT HIM.

DO NOT LIE TO COVER FOR HIM.

It will make your life 100% more awkward. No one will understand your actions.
A member of my family is a paedophile. The minute I found out I 100% rejected him and never spoke to him again.

As far as I am concerned he chose to do what he did and now he can live with the consequences.

People say blood is thicker than water. I say no. Some things are unforgivable. Paedophilia is one of them.

You tell anyone who will listen why you are rejecting yoru brother. You did nothing wrong and should not have to suffer for his revolting actions.

ManOfMystery

I would also urge caution with this. If you are not in possession of the full facts yet, then don't be too swift to pass judgement on your brother. A lot of allegations such as this are worded in such a way that they can misrepresent the situation a little to the average Joe.

For example -

"charged with creating pornographic pictures featuring children".

Most people will assume this means that someone had set up a makeshift studio in their bedroom and were snapping pictures of children. In reality, it can mean they accidentally copied and pasted one photograph from a website onto their computer - the act of pasting the data is considered 'creating' a new file, thus they are technically creating child porn.

That's just an example. I'm not in any way defending anyone who willingly engages in paedophilia; as far as I'm concerned, all guilty parties should be given life sentences without chance of parole - just saying, be sure you have all the facts.

Once this goes to the courts and you ARE in possession of all the facts, I don't see any reason why your circle of friends shouldn't know. They'll find out sooner or later, and there's no reason for you to continue being the scapegoat in a situation which may have been created by your brother's illegal doings.

lolli

For the sake of your mother I would not tell anyone until he has been proven guilty. It will only turn your family against you and i'm sure you dont want that.

Why dont you try meet up with your friends away from your brother. Invite them to the cinema or meet for a coffee or something.

LegacyUser

Say nothing for the moment tough it out. Not for your brothers sake, although innocent until proven guilty, but for the entire family.
Once this goes to court it will become very public and your friends will then understand.

eviltwin

Last year when this happened I rang my brother. I didn't believe it. I was sure that it wasn't true or that it was somehow a misunderstanding.

He admitted everything. When I asked him how bad the images were he said - and I will never as long as I live forget this -he said "its as bad as it gets". I dont even want to imagine what that means.

What really bugs me is that he has never shown any remorse, he's not sorry and still thinks he's hard done by. Probably part of my motivation is wiping the smug look off his face but when it all comes out, which it will, I dont want people saying "why didnt you tell us"

ManOfMystery

Well in that case he deserves everything that's coming his way.

He sounds dangerous, given that he has no remorse. Does anyone in this circle of friends have children? Is he in any contact with them? etc.

Whynotme

If I was your friend and discovered this in a few months time I would be furious. Your friends can make their own minds up, but more importantly, they can protect their own children, siblings, nieces, nephews.

Regarding your mum and his girlfriend, let them decide what they do. Morally you have to make your own decision. If as you say they support him, your relationship with them is probably over anyway as you aren't. They will always be in denial or hope its not true.

I know of a case where the family didn't know. When they did find out they then decided to support him. They are now very lonely people for doing that.

eviltwin

Nope no kids - thank god!

Oh The Humanity

If he has admitted it then don't protect him any more.

It is not your job to protect him.

You can only tell other people what he told you and let them make their own minds up. You are only going to be telling them so that they know why you are avoiding him and do not want to be in his company.

Its all very well people saying he is innocent until proven guilty, but with paedophiles you just can't take the chance. If there is any possibility he did this and there seems to be then your only course of action is to disclose what is going on to those who need to know.

People could become very angry later if they realise they have been hanging around with him without knowing what he is. And I believe they are entitled to know.

chuckles30

It is a difficult position to be in and you do need to be careful what you say, but I think you should say something. Maybe you can say that he has been accused of downloading & supplying this stuff and even though he has not been found guilty, you cannot & do not want to be in his company. By doing this you are not saying that he is guilty, even though he has already admitted it. I think people will respect you more in the long term for being honest about what's going on. It will be hard on your family when it gets out, but it will get out once it goes to court anyway, so it's only a matter of when that happens.....not if. Even if he is found not guilty in court, it will be public knowledge why he was in court.

I do not have children myself, but I have a niece & nephew and if anyone in my circle of friends was accused of something like this, I would want to know - we have to do everything we can to protect them.

RossFixxxed

Since the OP has knowledge and seen/witnessed something THEN she should not lose any friendships over his actions. Gloves come off.

AnonoBoy

RossFixxxed wrote: »

If the OP has knowledge and seen/witnessed something THEN she should not lose any friendships over his actions. Gloves come off.

The OP stated that the brother admitted it to them.

herya

You can simply say "I don't want to have anything in common with him anymore because of what he's done and why he's being taken to court".

He can't hide going to court and once everyone knows this they will also know why you've cut your ties to him. I'm sure they will see your reason clearly then.

reesa

What your brother has done was morally reprehensible (even more so since he shows no remorse), and yet you are suffering, this is wrong - i would begin to start telling trusted friends - initially your mother and sister will be angry but i think even they will soon see the light.

Think about it - when all this comes out (which it will) - if you keep quiet you and your family will be looked upon as people who protected a monster - you are digging yourself a grave - you can let your brother drag you and your family down or you can take steps to protect yourself. As it's such a delicate situation i would talk to a counsellor as to how best to go about dealing with it. But i would definitely start telling close friends asap. Good luck.

laura l

eviltwin wrote: »

He admitted everything. When I asked him how bad the images were he said - and I will never as long as I live forget this -he said "its as bad as it gets". I dont even want to imagine what that means.

What really bugs me is that he has never shown any remorse, he's not sorry and still thinks he's hard done by.

oh god. that makes me feel sick to the pit of my stomach. can't begin to imagine how disgusted you are with him. i really can't understand why his girlfriend is standing by him??
you've done nothing wrong, i don't see why you should be the one to lose out socially and get cut off from your circle of friends. you will never have to explain or justify your brother's actions. is arranging to meet up with your friends on a different night/different pub an option?

Moomoo1

I wouldn't tell, no. He'll go to court, they'll decide whether he is guilty, and give the appropriate punishment.

Liam Byrne

herya wrote: »

You can simply say "I don't want to have anything in common with him anymore because of what he's done and why he's being taken to court".

He can't hide going to court and once everyone knows this they will also know why you've cut your ties to him. I'm sure they will see your reason clearly then.

This sounds like the best middle ground.

But to be honest I'd be disgusted at the rest of your family for standing by him, particularly given that he's shown no remorse.

In my book there are 3 things that are 100% unforgiveable : child porn, rape and murder.

LegacyUser

Hi OP,

Could you not tell your friends and ask them not say anything to your mum etc, tell some of your closest friends and they may be very supportive to you, say the truth... the truth is that he has admitted to you he has looked at the worse you can look at porn wise, If they are your friends they will understand then they can decide for themselves what to do, and you dont have to suffer anymore,

your brother should not be acting like nothing has happened and disrespecting you in front of all your friends, can you ask your brother what he thinks is going to happen when everyone finds out, if he is showing no remorse then he is in denial, some of your friends may support him like your mum and sis has, others may be like you, i think it may be worth exploring which friends you can trust?

If it was me id tell some of my closest friends, but i am female and we usually tell each other everything! and if i asked them to keep it quiet they would.

herya

reesa wrote: »

Think about it - when all this comes out (which it will) - if you keep quiet you and your family will be looked upon as people who protected a monster - you are digging yourself a grave - you can let your brother drag you and your family down or you can take steps to protect yourself.

This is very true, unfortunately it's very human to blame the whole family. Others will assume that you support him or worse, that you knew all along - especially that you used to be close.

Sir Oxman

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I wouldn't tell, no. He'll go to court, they'll decide whether he is guilty, and give the appropriate punishment.

He has admitted it to her.

Op, you are storing up big trouble with your friends if you don't do something to warn them.

PS OP, you said 'supplying', do you mean he traded in child porn images/videos?
For kicks or money or both?

Moomoo1

gambiaman wrote: »

He has admitted it to her.

I know. I just think that whatever the courts decide to do with him is punishment enough. No need to add to it by trying to make the person an outcast. 'Let him without sin cast the first stone' as they say.

Also, there is the issue of confidence. He has admitted this to her in full confidence, and telling this to someone else would be a total breach of that confidence. Whereas if you wait for it to come to light naturally, this won't be an issue.

Sir Oxman

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I know. I just think that whatever the courts decide to do with him is punishment enough. No need to add to it by trying to make the person an outcast. 'Let him without sin cast the first stone' as they say.

Also, there is the issue of confidence. He has admitted this to her in full confidence, and telling this to someone else would be a total breach of that confidence. Whereas if you wait for it to come to light naturally, this won't be an issue.

The Op is taking a chance in not telling at least her closest friends - when this comes out she is taking a huge risk that she will be shunned or at the very least, be at the end of some very, very angry people.

Moomoo1

gambiaman wrote: »

The Op is taking a chance in not telling at least her closest friends - when this comes out she is taking a huge risk that she will be shunned or at the very least, be at the end of some very, very angry people.

frankly, friends who would do that (ostracise someone who didn't do anything wrong) aren't worth keeping anyway.

Sir Oxman

Moomoo1 wrote: »

frankly, friends who would do that (ostracise someone who didn't do anything wrong) aren't worth keeping anyway.

Unfortunately, this OP is not talking about something innocuous - her/his brother is an unremorseful peddler of paedophiliac images/videos - it doesn't get much worse than that - and he's out joking and laughing/socialising with folks who don't know. And she/he knows, and they'll know she/he knew when it all comes out.

LegacyUser

Moomoo1 wrote: »

I know. I just think that whatever the courts decide to do with him is punishment enough. No need to add to it by trying to make the person an outcast. 'Let him without sin cast the first stone' as they say.

Also, there is the issue of confidence. He has admitted this to her in full confidence, and telling this to someone else would be a total breach of that confidence. Whereas if you wait for it to come to light naturally, this won't be an issue.

Not many people commit child pornography offenses though, in this case this guy should have to accept all the consequences of his behaviour. If he is proven guilty he may end up in prison, he is going around and acting like nothing has happened, there is no confidence issue when protecting children is involved, why protect him, he only stopped because he was found out, it is his problem and not the families, the OP is left in a very difficult position while the brother parades around like nothing has happened, you would think he would lie low and have some remorse at the fact that this is all goin to come out and also impact his mother and family. He is a selfish git, and deserves no support, abuse is perpetuated by silence, it should always be exposed, even now his actions are effecting his family.

herya

gambiaman wrote: »

Unfortunately, this OP is not talking about something innocuous - her/his brother is an unremorseful peddler of paedophiliac images/videos - it doesn't get much worse than that - and he's out joking and laughing/socialising with folks who don't know. And she/he knows, and they'll know she/he knew when it all comes out.

Exactly. I feel that the OP should make her stance known. Her brother has no remorse and their friends deserve to know at least that something is not on. Let the court judge though.

Moomoo1

gambiaman wrote: »

Unfortunately, this OP is not talking about something innocuous - her brother is an unremorseful peddler of paedophiliac images/videos - it doesn't get much worse than that - and he's out joking and laughing/socialising with folks who don't know. And she knows, and they'll know she knew when it all comes out.

What I said still stands. Real friends would understand the difficult situation she is in, and not judge her for not telling.

femfatal wrote: »

it is his problem and not the families,

Exactly, and that's why the OP shouldn't get involved into this at all.

dmy1001

well if you do not want to come outright and tell them can you not either tell one on the quiet and ask them to spread the word but not say where it came from or surely these charges are written somewhere? Could you not guide your friend to where they themselves would come across this info "by themselves" so to speak.
Either way you have to tell them! I don't buy this "real friends will understand the difficult situation" business. that may be the case with many other things but not child abuse.

miss no stars

Moomoo1 wrote: »

What I said still stands. Real friends would understand the difficult situation she is in, and not judge her for not telling.

If I was friends with a pair of siblings and one of them disappeared off the scene and then I LATER found out it was because he/she found out the other is a paedophile.... then yes, I would hold it against the person. Why? I'd want to freaking well KNOW. What if my family was having a big party for family and friends and all my little cousins/neices/nephews were there, AFTER the OP found out that he was a paedophile yet did NOTHING to allow anyone else protect the kids around them?

OP, you have an obligation to tell them he's been charged with it. Horrible as this sounds, you're only helping him by keeping silent.

Monkey61

miss no stars wrote: »

What if my family was having a big party for family and friends and all my little cousins/neices/nephews were there, AFTER the OP found out that he was a paedophile yet did NOTHING to allow anyone else protect the kids around them?

OP, you have an obligation to tell them he's been charged with it. Horrible as this sounds, you're only helping him by keeping silent.

Just to point out though that from what the Op has told us, her brother was looking at and sharing images - that is a world away from him physically abusing children himself (other than by encouraging those who are actually taking the photos/videos). Nothing that she has said would lead us to believe that he is actually a danger to children around him.

dmy1001

i just read the OP again and it is already almost a year since he was charged with this......doess this mean it has been a year you have not told your friends??
I take your point Monkey61 however in my eyes the use of these images ends up in abuse one way or another and thereby in my eyes he may as well be abusing..........just my opinion

herya

Monkey61 wrote: »

Just to point out though that from what the Op has told us, her brother was looking at and sharing images - that is a world away from him physically abusing children himself (other than by encouraging those who are actually taking the photos/videos). Nothing that she has said would lead us to believe that he is actually a danger to children around him.

It might or might not be true but it's not for the OP to decide about the safety of their friends' families. Certainly her brother's boundaries are in a very different place if they exist at all.

At this stage she's essentially covering for him even though it's based on contempt and not loyalty.

Moomoo1

herya wrote: »

It might or might not be true but it's not for the OP to decide about the safety of their friends' families. Certainly her brother's boundaries are in a very different place if they exist at all.

There we once again get to the 'innocent until proven guilty' part. The OP's brother was never charged with, and has never admitted, child abuse, and can't seriously be treated as a danger to families any more than anyone else.

You are right, it is not up to the OP to decide about the safety of her friends' families, but it is up to the courts to decide that, so just let them do that.

herya wrote: »

At this stage she's essentially covering for him even though it's based on contempt and not loyalty.

But another way to see this is that she is staying right out of this whole situation. Which in my mind is the right approach to take, at least morally.

herya

I'm not saying she should expose him as a sex offender immediately. I agree and wrote earlier that it is for the court to decide.

I feel however that to be fair to their friends and to herself she should be free to mention that her brother is a suspect in a serious crime investigation and she found it necessary to cut her ties with him. It is up to them to investigate what's the nature of the crime then and to decide whether they want to have anything in common with him or not. If they want to support him still - fair enough - they have the right to.

But she shouldn't leave them completely unaware, she should signal it to them and let them do the maths.

dmy1001

Moomoo1 wrote: »

There we once again get to the 'innocent until proven guilty' part. The OP's brother was never charged with, and has never admitted, child abuse, and can't seriously be treated as a danger to families any more than anyone else.

You are right, it is not up to the OP to decide about the safety of her friends' families, but it is up to the courts to decide that, so just let them do that.



But another way to see this is that she is staying right out of this whole situation. Which in my mind is the right approach to take, at least morally.

Post #13?........he admitted it fully to the OP:

He admitted everything. When I asked him how bad the images were he said - and I will never as long as I live forget this -he said "its as bad as it gets". I dont even want to imagine what that means.

lynsalot

Moomoo1 wrote: »

There we once again get to the 'innocent until proven guilty' part. The OP's brother was never charged with, and has never admitted, child abuse, and can't seriously be treated as a danger to families any more than anyone else.

You are right, it is not up to the OP to decide about the safety of her friends' families, but it is up to the courts to decide that, so just let them do that.



But another way to see this is that she is staying right out of this whole situation. Which in my mind is the right approach to take, at least morally.

I think that you're perhaps looking at all of this in an ideal world Moomoo. What if one of the children in the photographs was your child or your sister or neice? The OP has a responsibility to herself and her friends. She can respect the wishes of your family by only telling people the facts. In an ideal world, people aren't proud, don't feel hurt, don't feel ashamed. In this situation there's a lot of emotions running high and the OP needs support as much as anyone else.

Her brother has done a terrible thing. He's admitted it, so we know he's guilty. He's not remorseful at all, which adds insult to injury. If someone I socialised with was in this situation I would want to know. If I knew a good friend knew, I would be shocked she hadn't told me. A friend of mine years ago, had a sister who was in rehab for a drug addiction. She didn't tell me until she had died of an overdose. I can completely understand that. The sisters actions only affected herself, insofar as she wasn't harming innocent people. This situation is entirely different.

ninjasurfer1

OP,
Why not tell your brother to socialise with your friends less frequently or you'll tell them all what he's done?
If he backs off, you can see your friends again without meeting him..
If he doesn't, and you tell them what he's done, I would assume they won't want to hang around with him anyway.
Either way, you have a better chance of getting your friends back.

LegacyUser

Let's get real, ANYONE who engages in child pornography is a paedophile, plain and simple!! OP you do not have to protect him in any way, but you do have to protect the children he may be in contact with, you CANNOT take ANY chances. If he is in contact with any children you have to let that family know that he is going to court for this, yes not proven guilty altho you do know he is as he admitted it to you.
Can I just say how I sorry I am for you to have to deal with all of this, what an incredibly difficult time for you and the worst thing in the world imaginable, my thoughts are with you.

Sir Oxman

Monkey61 wrote: »

Just to point out though that from what the Op has told us, her brother was looking at and sharing images - that is a world away from him physically abusing children himself (other than by encouraging those who are actually taking the photos/videos). Nothing that she has said would lead us to believe that he is actually a danger to children around him.

"Late last year my brother was arrested for downloading and supplying child pornography"

If he's 'supplying' images/videos of this (read the OP) then yes, he is as culpable as the scum who fck children.

spinandscribble

kickoutthejams wrote: »

My friend's dad was charged with child porn possession after buying a computer in a car boot sale. He killed himself as he was abondoned and shunned by many people who knew him), it later turned out he was innocent.

i can vouch for this story, i also knew that friend in question's family well and its true people can get wrongly charged. Its something people should remember when they hear such stories. its one of the most damaging charges that can be brought on a person.

However as the brother of the man charged has said its been going on for years i'd say theres some truth to it. if that is the case then you have no obligation to stand by your brother. If he reaches out and wants help to control his urges i think its your responsible to help but if he just wants ou to lie for him...

Moomoo1

dmy1001 wrote: »

Post #13?........he admitted it fully to the OP:

He admitted everything. When I asked him how bad the images were he said - and I will never as long as I live forget this -he said "its as bad as it gets". I dont even want to imagine what that means.

He only admitted looking at child porn, not abusing children

ManOfMystery

Moomoo1 wrote: »

He only admitted looking at child porn, not abusing children

He's as guilty as those who abuse children. Without men like him, there wouldn't be a 'market' for this type of filth.

Liam Byrne

Moomoo1 wrote: »

He only admitted looking at child porn, not abusing children

Firstly, I don't think you can use the word "only" when it comes to looking at child porn; looking at it is a form of abuse in itself, and if people didn't look at it then the scum creating it wouldn't be creating it.

Secondly, the original post included "and supplying"; there's a question mark as to whether he's a middle-man or an out-and-out sick pervert who creates it, but he's one of the two.

And apologies if the above offends anyone by sounding judgemental; if it sounds that way, it's because it is - if I posted what I think of the scum that create this stuff and what they do to kids, boards would be shut down.

The brother has said "as bad as it gets", hopefully he'll get what's coming to him (assuming the admission is indicative of guilt) so the ONLY aspect of this that's in question is its effect on the OP; should they wait until the court case comes to light to explain their ostracising of their brother, or should they mention it now.

But I'm sickened by the use of the word "only" in the above post.