Ultra Street Fighter 4 Discussion Thread

Kirby

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Don't think Deejay should be above Dan and Hakan.

Dhalsim's probably correct though.

Yup. The lowest of the low. They gave him nothing. What did they expect? People who don't play him think he's "fine". Anybody who does knows he's garbage.

Dhalsim forums are depressing places to read. Full of "profound sadness". :P

D4RK ONION

Guess that's why Arturo is consistently placing top 3 with him at NLBC. :rolleyes:

I play a bit of Sim and I think the game changes really benefit him. Delayed Wake up is obviously GDLK for him, and Wultra is great in MUs like Vega.

This is just one guy's early impressions, the game's not even out properly a month. Give it some time to settle before you decide he needs to be beat with the nerf stick and who needs to be buffed through the roof.

bush

Kirby wrote: »

Dhalsim forums are depressing places to read. Full of "profound sadness". :P

You described 95% of the character fourms

Simon_K

I think Dhalsim's pretty good. Also, why is Hugo so low? He's actually pretty decent as well.

Doctor DooM

Simon_K wrote: »

I think Dhalsim's pretty good. Also, why is Hugo so low? He's actually pretty decent as well.

Sim doesn't feel changed at all really to me, he still struggles horribly when you eventually get in on him (although at least now he has DWU) and is still a massive pain in the arse for characters who lack good tools to do that. I'd prob pop him somewhere in the mid tier.

TBH I've yet to face a Hugo that's convinced me the character is any good and I know next to nothing about him. I suspect Guile might be a particularly horrific match for him though.

FutureGuy

I really like Decapre, but I think people are beginning to wise up to her tools. In addition, she is less of a mix-up character than I was expecting. Long story short, I'm really enjoying playing her but I may check out another character. For some reason, I really want to start learning Juri.

UberPrinny_Baal

Ultradavid's early tier list

Simon_K

I'm still torn on picking my main character. Can you guys help me out? Couple of things I noticed when I play:

I like playing dhalsim for his zoning. He's my go-to character for chillout gaming, but probably not a character I want to focus on as once someone gets in, I'm screwed.
I like Ibuki for her mad combos and mixups.
I like Poison for her projectiles - adjustable speed, quick recovery.
I tried playing Guile, but I'm not good with charge based characters.
I like to play defensively, punishing people for their mistakes.
I find it hard to rush down people, as I struggle to figure out proper range for normal attacks (that's me being scrub doe).
I feel I'm a technical kind of player, I don't react to people's actions but would rather have a plan set up (I hope it makes sense).
What would you guys recommend?

Doyler01

Guile if u can get used to charge.

Danonino.

FutureGuy wrote: »

I really like Decapre, but I think people are beginning to wise up to her tools. In addition, she is less of a mix-up character than I was expecting. Long story short, I'm really enjoying playing her but I may check out another character. For some reason, I really want to start learning Juri.

This is exactly my frame of mind with Decapre. Guy plays how I want a character to play and after months (years) is still interesting and fun to play so I guess I was hoping for a secondary. With Guy i find i can cause some annoyance with shenanigans when I want but then revert to solid footsies when I need, his antiair changes to hk and lk make this even better, but I was enjoying Decapre and she's fun but too linear and a set style. Kind of why I moved from Fei... Maybe I'll try out Gen again now that I have mk-hands down on stick
Might check out Rolento for a bit or see how Hawk has changed either.


*still picks decapre

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Ultradavid's early tier list

That's seems a bit better, also feck it, back to makoto

Kirby

D4RK ONION wrote: »

Guess that's why Arturo is consistently placing top 3 with him at NLBC. :rolleyes:.

I think you'll find he plays mostly Rose now And I'm subscribed to him on youtube and social media. Believe me, I know his opinion on the character and it's not good.

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Ultradavid's early tier list

He also has Sim at the bottom....because he used to main him back in Vanilla and super and he knows the problems.

People tend to think that the character they play is bad and characters they don't play are great. That's normal. But I dare you to find a tier list that has him above ass tier.

That 2 hit medium was a good change....a positive change. It stopped the retarded focus spam that half the cast get away with. I recognise it made the Hugo matchup a 9-1 but Hugo is going to lose to Sim anyway so it was a dumb reason to remove it a week from launch. It gave him a fighting chance.

It's silly that this is the fifth iteration of the game and we've still seen no usable changes to his drills or his slides. They didn't even bother tweaking them for Ultra. It would be cool to be able to drill like in super turbo.

Doctor DooM

Simon_K wrote: »

I'm still torn on picking my main character. Can you guys help me out? Couple of things I noticed when I play:

I like playing dhalsim for his zoning. He's my go-to character for chillout gaming, but probably not a character I want to focus on as once someone gets in, I'm screwed.
I like Ibuki for her mad combos and mixups.
I like Poison for her projectiles - adjustable speed, quick recovery.
I tried playing Guile, but I'm not good with charge based characters.
I like to play defensively, punishing people for their mistakes.
I find it hard to rush down people, as I struggle to figure out proper range for normal attacks (that's me being scrub doe).
I feel I'm a technical kind of player, I don't react to people's actions but would rather have a plan set up (I hope it makes sense).
What would you guys recommend?

Doyler01 wrote: »

Guile if u can get used to charge.

I'm with Doyler, sounds like you want poison or Guile. both are slow paced characters that like to control the field of play.

If you like I could make a long rambling post on how you get used to playing a charge character.

Kirby wrote: »

I think you'll find he plays mostly Rose now And I'm subscribed to him on youtube and social media. Believe me, I know his opinion on the character and it's not good.

Last weekend in the King of New York in his FT5 he stuck with Sim against Dieminion until his last fight.

Kirby wrote: »

That 2 hit medium was a good change....a positive change. It stopped the retarded focus spam that half the cast get away with. I recognise it made the Hugo matchup a 9-1 but Hugo is going to lose to Sim anyway so it was a dumb reason to remove it a week from launch. It gave him a fighting chance.

It would also annihilate any other character with poor tools to get in on Sim.

All us people who play zoney characters like to moan about the poo balancing but I think if you do that in one breath you also need to recognise how easy it would be to turn them into absolute beasts with small tweaks. If they were to make Sims drills safe, he's then a dive kick character with an awesome zoning game. Similarly with my lad I understand the U1 nerfs, but I think they went too far turning him into a glass cannon (although I'm starting to think the counterhit nerf was removed. I was trying to CH a jab boom with Cammy j lk in the training room and the prediction still has to be very early).

I am personally still filled with dread when I see Sim come up on the character select screen. It's so tough to get in on him. Realistically, if they were to buff other parts of his game, I can't see them doing so without nerfing something else.

Also I think Wultra is great for him.

Kirby

Doctor DooM wrote: »

Realistically, if they were to buff other parts of his game, I can't see them doing so without nerfing something else.

Honestly I'd be fine with that. Nerf the hell out him in loads of areas and buff others. Some actual changes would have been nice. His change log was bloody pathetic. When you read some of the new toys that other characters got, it's just the depressing side of the "new" game coming out and your character is the exact same.

I liken it to the excitement when you buy FIFA every year and then realise its the same f*cking game with a new number on it. :P

Honestly its just down to the fact that nobody on the dev team plays Dhalsim at all so they are terrified to change anything incase they create a zoning monster. So he stays his boring old self. A lot of the "names" in the community brought this up at conventions and playtests in the build up to release...asking why he wasn't seeing any changes and the answer was honest. They admitted they simply didn't know what to do with him.

UberPrinny_Baal

Kirby wrote: »

Ultradavid has Sim at the bottom....because he used to main him back in Vanilla and super and he knows the problems.

People tend to think that the character they play is bad and characters they don't play are great.

Just so you know, Ultradavid also plays Zangief, Hugo, Dan and Hakan. He might also dabble with Hawk (not sure).

He definitely doesn't rate all his characters as ass tier.

Orim

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

Just so you know, Ultradavid also plays Zangief, Hugo, Dan and Hakan. He might also dabble with Hawk (not sure).

He definitely doesn't rate all his characters as ass tier.

That wasn't his point. He was going back to his point that the only people that rate Sim are the people that haven't played him. Ultradavid has played him and thus rates him poorly.

UberPrinny_Baal

Orim wrote: »

That wasn't his point. He was going back to his point that the only people that rate Sim are the people that haven't played him. Ultradavid has played him and thus rates him poorly.

I know.

I was adding legitimacy to his point by giving additional context.

D4RK ONION

Doctor DooM wrote: »

(although I'm starting to think the counterhit nerf was removed. I was trying to CH a jab boom with Cammy j lk in the training room and the prediction still has to be very early)

As far as I know, CH is only on for the first 20 frames of the move.

Kirby wrote: »

I think you'll find he plays mostly Rose now

Nope. Mostly picks Sim at tourneys

Jun_DP101

D4RK ONION wrote: »

As far as I know, CH is only on for the first 20 frames of the move.




Nope. Mostly picks Sim at tourneys

I don't think he's picked rose at nlbc the last few weeks

Orim

UberPrinny_Baal wrote: »

I know.

I was adding legitimacy to his point by giving additional context.

Ah read it wrong. Was still asleep.

Dreddybajs

Jun_DP101 wrote: »

I don't think he's picked rose at nlbc the last few weeks

Yeah as far as I've seen he's been playing lots of Sim lately, still see him pick Rose too though.

chopperbyrne

Kirby wrote: »

Honestly I'd be fine with that. Nerf the hell out him in loads of areas and buff others. Some actual changes would have been nice. His change log was bloody pathetic. When you read some of the new toys that other characters got, it's just the depressing side of the "new" game coming out and your character is the exact same.

So how would you change him then?

Apart from giving him a two hitting normal that hits from half a screen away, as everyone who played that version said it was too good, including Dhalsim players.

Fergus_

Azza

Sim character design is one of extremes. As Seth Killian said he's a charactet who can be made OP very easily likewise Vega. Sim had his day in ST.

Kirby

chopperbyrne wrote: »

So how would you change him then?

Apart from giving him a two hitting normal that hits from half a screen away, as everyone who played that version said it was too good, including Dhalsim players.

Well I'm not an expert on the game by any means.

If you want my opinion on what to change in StarCraft or FIFA I'll give you a list as long as my arm and fight my corner vociferously. But my game knowledge in sf4 is limited and I recognise that so my own balance ideas could likely be terrible.

Having said that, I have three ideas. He needs a two hit move. It's as simple as that. If 2 hit medium kick limb was too long range, fine. Perhaps crouching light punch or standing light kick as their range is shorter and they do no damage. 10 damage each I think. But it means you could stop armor moves and focus spam from shortish range.

His back and heavy punch "headbutt" is a two hit move but it's range is very, very short. After they removed 2 hit MK, they extended Back and Heavy punch's hitbox by a tiny amount which leads me to believe that Capcom recognised his problem with focus spam and sought to help.....but I still think crouching jab or standing light kick were better options as they have a little more range.

So that would help. I would also change his drills. Make them safe on hit. Not safe on block...obviously...but on hit. Perhaps not when they hit high, but if you connect low you should be safe from eating a DP. As it stands, the only use they see is for positioning over fireballs and for stopping blanka balls. That's about it and its a shame. They gave him 4 different drills and all 4 are fairly pants.

I also think having an EX teleport would be a neat idea. Sim has nearly no use for focus attacks while most of the cast do. Perhaps give him an EX teleport that takes two or three bars. Helps him get out of the corner but because it costs so many bars, you might only get to use it once a round. To me, that seems fair.

I think a combination of better drills, a 2 hit short range normal, and an EX teleport would help out a lot. He's still going to struggle up close...but he should. He's a zoner. To balance out the buffs you could perhaps nerf his health. It's fairly low already but you could lower it to Akuma or Seth standards. I don't think Sim players would mind playing a glass cannon as long as we were given more tools to help keep people out.

One more thing. Changing the motion for Yoga Flame and yoga blast from df,d,db,b to just d,db,b would make it easier to do on reaction. Like a backwards fireball motion. They did something similar with T-hawk a while back. It helped.

Ramza

Sim has fullscreen pokes, why does he need such an offensive tool for a heaving zoning character? I think the two hit MK was nuts, just my two cents though!

Kirby

He doesn't have fullscreen pokes. Not even close.

He had one near fullscreen pokes in Vanilla but they nerfed the range on his heavy punch by quite a lot. Go into training mode and see for yourself. And its as slow as all hell. And can be jabbed out of. And being able to poke at long range does you no good when they can just focus through it for free.

If the MK was too strong, fine. Give it to one of his shorter limbs.

Ramza

Kirby wrote: »

He doesn't have fullscreen pokes. Not even close.

He had one near fullscreen pokes in Vanilla but they nerfed the range on his heavy punch by quite a lot. Go into training mode and see for yourself. And its as slow as all hell. And can be jabbed out of. And being able to poke at long range does you no good when they can just focus through it for free.

If the MK was too strong, fine. Give it to one of his shorter limbs.

I know they're not technically fullscreen, but yknow what I mean. Long-ass pokes maybe is a better word

When you focus Sim's far fierce you're more often than not in no better a position than you are blocking it tbh. You don't really gain any ground from focusing it max distance, he can just push you back out, it's what he's good at and designed to do. IDK I just thought the MK thing was mad

Azza

Focus spam isn't Sims problem. Its dive kicks and vortex.

Fergus_

Make Sakura's ex tatsu be completely invincible and +6 on block pls capcom

Kirby

Azza wrote: »

Focus spam isn't Sims problem. Its dive kicks and vortex.

And yet they gave him nothing to combat those things. Obviously Capcom doesn't agree with you.

Azza for class balancer! #DictatorAndSimBuffs