RTÉ Sport 2009: soccer becomes "football" and football becomes "gaelic football&

Rebelheart

Who has taken over editing the reports in RTÉ Sport? I really want to know that.

This evening on the 18.30 sports news on RTÉ Radio 1 the "football" news was given - all from mother England or, to be precise since Glasgow got a mention, Britain.
Next story: Armagh's McEntee brothers have announced their retirement from "gaelic football".

What country are we in? Again: what - country - are - we - in ?

Hello? Hello RTÉ SPORT?



I'm a Meathman. I have never lived in Britain, and I have no intention of leaving Ireland. This is my home. Understand? All my life football has been known as football. "Football" was the local team, the local school teams, the county team - it was, and is, everything as far as sport here is concerned. There may be the occasional nod to other sports such as Darren Sutherland RIP and boxing, but sport - nay, community life - revolves around the local GAA pitch. No national event united people here as much as the Meath-Dublin matches in the halcyon days of 1991, for instance. "The match" was and still is always football or, in places like Kilmessan, Drumree or Trim, probably hurling. In Meath, when football and soccer matches clash, the lads choose football because, at a superficial level, that's where the local honour, the local pride and the local crowds are invested. It really is that simple. At a deeper personal level, football is simply a better, more physical game with points making it much more competitive for players and crowds alike.


There was, and is, another sport called soccer - officially known as Association Football. Historically in Ireland that sport has been commonly known as the garrison game because it was played by members of the British Empire's forces while they were occupying our country. In Britain, a country between Ireland and France, what passed as "football" was a very diverse sport until the rules were formalised in the 1860s; many rules of British "football", including the "Cambridge rules" from 1848, involved players using their hands as they went from one goal to another. In 1863, soccer was invented and rules were created which only involved the use of the feet. In Britain, from that date, Association Football first became synonymous with "football". That is, only since the 1860s has soccer and "football" become synonymous in British society, a fact which the average soccer supporter would not know. That's the British history. In Ireland, following the withdrawal of the British garrison from most of the country, that sport was usually played by people who had not got enough room near where they lived to play football. That's putting it politely but let's move on. It was, and remains, very much a minority sport in Ireland where the main sporting body has not got the requisite resources to build a national stadium on its own.


Now, who in RTÉ Sport has taken it upon themselves to start adopting terminology from British broadcasters and imposing it upon Irish society as represented by our national broadcaster? Who is this person? Can we have a name?

The additional shame of the 18.30 report on RTÉ is that it was read by Marty Morrissey, a man whom I have held great respect for ever since the glory days of Meath football in the late 1980s/early 1990s. Had Des Cahill, the Bertie Ahern of Irish sports journalists, read the same report I would not be surprised. Marty Morrissey reading it made my blood boil.

Mossy Monk

You must have a pretty good life if this is the sort of thing that bothers you. I have just read it again and I am thinking this is a joke.

anonymous_joe

Meh. Where I'm from association football is football, rugby is rugby, and gaelic football is gaa, and hurling's hurling.

It's not a secret plan to replace the GAA.

Vunderground

God, that's depressing. Such bile and bitterness. It really is inconsequential.

mikemac

Such bitterness and hate in your post

What you heard was a reporter doing a sports report.
So that called it gaelic football? What's the problem, that is the sports name.

Around my way we call association football, just football and gaelic football is well, gaelic football.

Either way it doesn't matter a damn

soccymonster

Am i supposed to LOL or what?

Rebelheart

anonymous_joe wrote: »

Meh. Where I'm from association football is football, rugby is rugby, and gaelic football is gaa

And the question of course is why, in your mind, Association Football is given the monopoly over the word football and Gaelic Football, which historically and currently is the popular definition of football in Ireland, is qualified to something less than football.

Maybe, just maybe, you are watching too many British sports channels, taking your terms from them and thinking it's normal Irish usage because you heard it somewhere, without thinking of that somewhere? Perish the thought that you are carrying a British prejudice in your terminology.

I can tell you for a fact that that is precisely what you, and those who think like you, are doing. Turn off the Sky Sports and start thinking for yourself.

Rebelheart

Vunderground wrote: »

God, that's depressing. Such bile and bitterness. It really is inconsequential.

If it's so "inconsequential" then why did some RTÉ editor decide to edit the description of the McEntees and describe them as "gaelic footballers" but not describe the British soccer players as "soccer players"?

That is bitterness. Unless you really believe that editors, people who work with words in their professional life, are that obtuse about the language they use?

Rebelheart

mikemac wrote: »

Such bitterness and hate in your post

What you heard was a reporter doing a sports report.
So that called it gaelic football? What's the problem, that is the sports name.

Around my way we call association football, just football and gaelic football is well, gaelic football.

And where, pray tell, is "around my way"? The planet Sky Sports? So how, please enlighten us, does "Association Football" become "just football" "around your way" and Gaelic Football becomes "gaelic football" "around your way"? Are you not missing something in the former leap?

Could the rationale be that "your way" is, well, the British way? Your terminology most assuredly, and without question, is following British usage.

cashback

I think you're a bit obsessed with 'them across the water'.

I call Gaelic Football 'football' and soccer is 'soccer' because it avoids confusion. I play and enjoy watching both games.

I know what you're trying to say, but referring to 'the garrison game' and trying to ignite another 'GAA v soccer' debate is not helping your argument.

Daysha

You do know rte.ie/sport still has "association football" labelled as soccer yeah?

amacachi

Rebelheart wrote: »

And the question of course is why, in your mind, Association Football is given the monopoly over the word football and Gaelic Football, which historically and currently is the popular definition of football in Ireland, is qualified to something less than football.

You're really trying to claim that the use of the word "football" in this country usually refers to the GAA variety?

fullstop

Who's your favourite football team OP? I quite like Manchester Rovers. And tell us your favourite gaelic football team too.

Just read some of your older posts too, seems you have a major chip on your shoulder about the British, Sky and GAA :rolleyes:

Orizio

Who cares?

mikemac

Rebelheart wrote: »

And where, pray tell, is "around my way"?

A county with far more GAA titles then Meath

Rebelheart wrote: »

The planet Sky Sports?

Never had Sky Sports

Rebelheart wrote: »

Could the rationale be that "your way" is, well, the British way? Your terminology most assuredly, and without question, is following British usage.

Two gaelic footballers retired, the news report named them as gaelic footballers and this is upsetting you? And you wish this was just cut to football? Who cares, the media has to get their message across and they did it

Besides if you look at it geographically Ireland is part of the British Isles

CiaranC

What a hilarious OP. Get a life.

Association football predates Gaelic football on this island and has four times as many players as Gaelic football. I dont know anyone who refers to GAA as "football" and Im as anti-Sky Sports as you are, being a LOI fan.

Rebelheart

CiaranC wrote: »

Association football predates Gaelic football on this island

And your source for that nonsense is what, precisely? Soccer, a game invented in 1863, obviously doesn't predate football in Ireland, which can be dated to at least 1527. Do your historical research before spouting this sort of thing.

CiaranC wrote: »

I dont know anyone who refers to GAA as "football"

I suppose that must make it true for the whole country then.

egan007

....comin over here takin our jobs and our wimmen...

py2006

The OP reminds me why I don't like/follow the gaa at all.

To be honest Gaelic football shouldn't be referred to as football at all because they use their frickin HANDS!!!!!!

py2006

Rebelheart wrote: »

And your source for that nonsense is what, precisely? Soccer, a game invented in 1863, obviously doesn't predate football in Ireland, which can be dated to at least 1527. Do your historical research before spouting this sort of thing.




I suppose that must make it true for the whole country then.

You should probably do some research yourself there. The modern version of football exists since the late 1800's but the game itself has been around a little longer than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football#History

The beauty of football (soccer to the gaa brigade) is that it is a world wide, universal sport that brings EVERYBODY together. No matter what race or religion the sport is loved and played everywhere as opposed to the bigoted, anti-foreigner (England) attitude associated with some fans of the gaa. You don't hear the great footballing nations like Germany, Spain and Italy giving out about an "English" sport.

Attitudes similar to the OP is rather shameful.

Fr Tod Umptious

Hey OP just saw this on the RTE website
http://www.rte.ie/sport/gaa/championship/2009/0923/armagh.html

The famous Armagh footballing twins, John and Tony McEntee, from Crossmaglen have decided to hang up their boots for good.

Shock horror they use the word 'footballing' not 'Gaelic Footballing'

What difference does it make, eveyone to their own

Some people refer to soccer as football, others GAA as football, heck Eddie O' Sullivan refers to Rugby as football, and I even though I am a GAA fan I refred to what we call American Football this side of the world as 'football' for the years I lived in the US, how f**ked up is that

Mellor

Rebelheart wrote: »

And your source for that nonsense is what, precisely? Soccer, a game invented in 1863, obviously doesn't predate football in Ireland, which can be dated to at least 1527. Do your historical research before spouting this sort of thing.

I can't figure out which part is funnier.

The fact that you think soccer was invented in 1863. (this was the year the english FA was formed)
The fact that you think you can even put a date of any sport over 100 years old.
Or the fact that you suggest that somebody does their research.


Football is a catch-all word. That refers to a number of sports, and normally it makes little difference, as most people are aware what sport is being referred to.

I've come across 5 sports referred to as football.
Soccer, GAA, NFL, AFL and NRL

all different sports, and it hasn't been a big deal yet (although, NRL is a little strange)

drkpower

Rebelheart wrote: »

OP

How dare you speak in English, the language of our opressor, you vile West Brit pig etc etc .....blah blah...

Rebelheart wrote: »

There may be the occasional nod to other sports such as Darren Sutherland RIP and boxing, but sport - nay, community life - revolves around the local GAA pitch.

If you can call the pitch the 'GAA' pitch, can we not call the sport GAA? D'uh....

bog master

I tend to agree with the OP main points and will put hand up and have no interest in Association Football/Soccer whatever you wish to call it. Football to me is GAA because it is our own sport. When talking other sports, it could be American Football or Aussie Rules Football etc.

And yes, RTE does list it as soccer on its website, so maybe there is a bit of confusion within the Sports Dept. But the GAA does predate any organised
soccer in Ireland and the term football I assume from the early days would have referred to the GAA. The rest of the world commonly tend to use the word football yes, except in cases where their own national sport(s) also use the word. Hence, US and Canada use the term soccer.

HowAreYeGettinO

Rebelheart wrote: »

I'm a Meathman.

....

No national event united people here as much as the Meath-Dublin matches in the halcyon days of 1991, for instance.

:rolleyes:

Just because the Evening Herald sport section wrote about nothing else for those few weeks doesn't mean the matches were a 'national event' that 'united people'.

Believe me, the other 30 counties had other things going on in their lives...

pipeliner

what annoys me most is when them americans score a goal in soccer, they call it a point. Thats our word when we kick the ball over the bar.

Fr Tod Umptious

Mellor wrote: »

I've come across 5 sports referred to as football.
Soccer, GAA, NFL, AFL and NRL

Is it not true that in Australia 'The Footie Show' on TV in NSW refers to NRL while 'The Footie Show' in Vic refres to AFL

Please god we will never use the word 'Footie' to describe GAA or soccer here in Ireland, it is terrible word.

Fr Tod Umptious

pipeliner wrote: »

what annoys me most is when them americans score a goal in soccer, they call it a point. Thats our word when we kick the ball over the bar.

never heard that used, they always called in a goal anytime I heard them, where did you get that piece of information

patmac

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Please god we will never use the word 'Footie' to describe GAA or soccer here in Ireland, it is terrible word.

What a good idea, would clear things up, I get so confused when RTE mention Ryan Giggs and Colm 'the Gooch' Cooper as footballers in the same sports bulletin, I have no idea what sports they are referring to so if they said the footie player Colm Cooper, it would make things so much easier. Sure RTE is in Donnybrook Dublin 4, pure West Brit country were lucky they mention GAA at all.

Mushy

Isn't soccer just a derived term from association? Like a popular word thats just taken for granted as being an actual word. Handy to differentiate it from gaelic football(which i happen to just call gaelic). Its not going to impact on my enjoyment of either games in a playing or watching capacity, its only a word.

premierstone

OP seriously you have'nt much to be complaining about have you :rolleyes:

And btw I refer to both sports as ''Football'' and I generally find that anyone with even a modicum of inteligence is capable of figuring out which sport I'm talking about.

Rebelheart

Mellor wrote: »

I can't figure out which part is funnier. The fact that you think soccer was invented in 1863. (this was the year the english FA was formed). The fact that you think you can even put a date of any sport over 100 years old.

In fact, there were no universally accepted rules for "football" in Britain until the English FA was founded on 26 October 1863. Re-read. This is easily verifiable.

Mellor wrote: »

Football is a catch-all word.

Now you are on more solid ground. It's a pity you didn't think this through before writing in implicit support of an Irish news organisation accepting British practice and giving soccer a monopoly on the term "football". A bit of consistency, please.

Your entire problem is this: you persist in assuming soccer has been synonymous with "football" over in Britain. It was only following the creation of the English FA in 1863 that soccer was invented as a sport. Prior to that there were numerous variants known as "football". At the risk of being tautologous, they had different rules but were all known as "football" - many of those rules involved holding the ball as one went up the field. It was only in the 1860s that these diverse bodies came together to agree a common set of rules for their sports, and very many of those existing "football" rules (such as hand passing) were historically very different to the game which was finally invented, Association Football, in the 1860s.


Your mistake is that you think that what you define as "football" predates soccer; it doesn't. It-does-not. What you refer to as "football" in 2009 is Association Football. Prior to the creation of that body "football" had many rules and many representations. That you are trying to deny this historical fact and claim your "football" is not, in fact, the game invented in the 1860s, Association Football, is ahistorical.

Mellor wrote: »

Or the fact that you suggest that somebody does their research.

I suggest that you do your historical research if you insist upon this notion that "football" in Britain is not, in fact, soccer and accordingly dated to an invented set of rules from the 1860s. If you have evidence for a different history that contrasts with this accepted history, please produce it.

PS: I trust that I've repeated myself sufficiently for this to finally sink into your Sky Sports head.

Rebelheart

egan007 wrote: »

....comin over here takin our jobs and our wimmen...

That was original. I've never heard that before on Boards. Well done.

Rebelheart

py2006 wrote: »

You should probably do some research yourself there. The modern version of football exists since the late 1800's but the game itself has been around a little longer than that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Football#HistoryAttitudes similar to the OP is rather shameful.

Er, no it hasn't. Soccer is as much a "modern version" of "football" as is every single football game in the world. You are simply swallowing the British nationalist mythology which claims soccer has a monopoly on the term "football". This is ahistorical raiméis. What you are terming "football" was only invented in the 1860s, when it was named Association Football to distinguish it from all the other footballs. Had it been synonymous with "football" there would be little need for such a qualification. Think about it.

Soccer has no superior right to the term "football" than any other ball-based sport on the planet. Shock. Horror. Put down the British tabloids, read the history of football generally, or even of football over in your beloved Britain, and start thinking for yourself. Your "football", Association Football, was only invented in the 1860s. You are simply trying to hijack the many ball games which existed before the 1860s and claim them as your footballing tradtion. This is ahistorical: soccer, the game you now know as "football", can only be dated to the 1860s. Accept this historical fact, and move on.

Yes, it seems it really needs to be repeated to you, also. Alas.

py2006 wrote: »

The beauty of football (soccer to the gaa brigade) is that it is a world wide, universal sport that brings EVERYBODY together. No matter what race or religion the sport is loved and played everywhere as opposed to the bigoted, anti-foreigner (England) attitude associated with some fans of the gaa.

Yes, how inclusive of those lovely English chaps in Lansdowne Road a few years ago. No "racism" there, of course. Indeed, when I think of English soccer my heart jumps with joy about its inclusivity from the Heysel Stadium to the streets of Germany and the Netherlands. Yes, how free from bigotry and pro-foreigner are those lovely soccer supporters. Charming fellows indeed.

You really have swallowed the myths of British society on this issue.

medja

Rebelheart wrote: »

Soccer has no superior right to the term "football" than any other ball-based sport on the planet.

That's a fair point, but by that same logic Gaelic hasn't any superior right to the term either. So when an RTE report calls Soccer football you can't really complain.

Rebelheart

drkpower wrote: »

the language of our opressor [sic]...

Would that the Queen's English could be your language too.

drkpower wrote: »

If you can call the pitch the 'GAA' pitch, can we not call the sport GAA? D'uh....

Well, Einstein, don't think too hard (again) but maybe, just maybe, that's because the "GAA pitch" is not just for football? There are other sports like hurling, camogie and women's football that use the same pitch.

"Duh" indeed. Anyway, back to your tabloids and Sky Sports, I suppose.

premierstone

Rebelheart wrote: »

In fact, there were no universally accepted rules for "football" in Britain until the English FA was founded on 26 October 1863. Re-read. This is easily verifiable.

There were no official rules in Gaelic Football untill 1884 so whats your point???

Rebelheart

medja wrote: »

That's a fair point, but by that same logic Gaelic hasn't any superior right to the term either.

That is true: the fact is, though, that the RTÉ report followed the British usage of the term and imposed it upon this society. It gave precedence to the myths of British society that soccer and football is synonymous. It is not, and it never has been. That is, quite frankly, a lie - no matter how many soccer supporters say otherwise. RTÉ is meant to represent this society not lazily take the myths of another society and impose it here. That some Irish people have neither the wit nor independence of mind to avoid copying every trend over in Britain does not make RTÉ's action any more acceptable.

medja wrote: »

So when an RTE report calls Soccer football you can't really complain.

It is not within RTÉ'S public remit to embrace the prejudices and values of that society and impose them upon ours. The British have their own sports, one of which they term "football". We have our sport which we call football. Our football should not be relegated to "Gaelic Football" because some simpleton of an editor in RTÉ forgets which country he is in.

Rebelheart

premierstone wrote: »

There were no official rules in Gaelic Football untill 1884 so whats your point???

This is obvious. The point is that "football" in this society has not been a variant of the British game Association Football. Football in Ireland has historically been 'caid', which was the basis for the GAA's rules in the 1880s. It has a different history. Equating 'football' with 'soccer' is a very, very recent phenomenon in Irish society, and one undoubtedly connected with the recent rise of Sky Sports and British television and media generally.

It's as if certain people discover British soccer, as told by British people, and wish to rewrite the entire sporting lexicon of Ireland so that we, the Irish, can fit into that British worldview of sport. No thanks.

super_furry

Wow, I didn't know people still thought like that.

mayordenis

Soccer is an American word - you're supporting american reminology over british because you are xenophobic, no other reason.

mayordenis

super_furry wrote: »

Wow, I didn't know people still thought like that.

The thing with people is the will always disapoint.

Crotchety

You're doing a great job stirring the pot OP. Why don't you go and troll somewhere else instead of our native sports forum.

Rebelheart

mayordenis wrote: »

Soccer is an American word - you're supporting american reminology over british because you are xenophobic, no other reason.

This is more of the same undereducated nonsense. According to the Oxford English Dictionary the earliest reference to soccer is in 1889, when it appeared as 'socca' and was used by an English poet, E. C. Dowson. Soccer is patently an abbreviated form of 'Association' in Association Football.

Here's the etymology of soccer from the OED:

1889 E. C. DOWSON Let. 21 Feb. (1967) 38, I absolutely decline to see socca' matches. 1891 Lock to Lock Times 24 Oct. 13/2 A sterling player, and has the best interest of the ‘socker’ game at heart. 1894 Westm. Gaz. 11 Jan. 7/1 The rival attractions of ‘rugger’ and ‘socker’. 1895 19th Cent. Nov. 862 When the boat~race, sports, and ‘soccer’ are in most men's minds. 1899 New Cent. Rev. V. 118 A Methodist ministerwho..doffed the Socker jersey.




Interesting, though, that you are blaming the Yanks for coining the word "soccer". Shhh, it's always been called "football" and the word 'soccer' is an evil Yankee plot to discredit "our" great British sport. With typically misplaced xenophobia against the new world power, you've certainly been well brought up in British sporting terminology, mayor denis.

Crotchety

Why post the same thing twice?

Half an hour later!

drkpower

Rebelheart wrote: »

Would that the Queen's English could be your language too..

Oh, woe is me, I missed a 'p' in 'oppressor'; Well spotted. You are sharp as a tack today!!

Rebelheart wrote: »

Well, Einstein, don't think too hard (again) but maybe, just maybe, that's because the "GAA pitch" is not just for football? There are other sports like hurling, camogie and women's football that use the same pitch.
.

Ok, so, can I use the term 'football pitch' for a pitch that is used to play 'association football', 'rugby football' and "american football'? Or would that be 'West Brit' or 'Sky Sports' of me???

Rebelheart

drkpower wrote: »

Ok, so, can I use the term 'football pitch' for a pitch that is used to play 'association football', 'rugby football' and "american football'? Or would that be 'West Brit' or 'Sky Sports' of me???

It doesn't really matter, does it; I have no doubt that you'll do precisely what you hear your soccer correspondents on British television do, "mate".

drkpower

Rebelheart wrote: »

It doesn't really matter, does it; I have no doubt that you'll do precisely what you hear your soccer correspondents on British television do, "mate".

Nice sidestep.
Care to answer the question?

As you feel it is appropriate to call a pitch where camogie, football and hurling is played a 'GAA pitch", is it appropriate for me to call Lansdowne Road a 'football pitch' given that 'association football', 'rugby football' and "american football' are/have been played there?

If you don't want to answer, just say so, its ok.

corny

Why does this type of thing bother you OP?

They could call it ****ball or Pissball, what difference does it make or what effect does it have?

Erin Go Brath

corny wrote: »

Why does this type of thing bother you OP?

They could call it ****ball or Pissball, what difference does it make or what effect does it have?

Calling it Pissball would make a big difference. Our national game would become a mockery.

Gingy

There seems to be a lot of bitterness towards the OP in this thread, which I am not going to partake in. The worst is when people refer to football as Gah, it almost sounds like they are trying to rub our noses in it.