Broombridge station no-go area

Rawr

Craig Fay wrote: »

For anybody who hasn't seen it in the BXD thread, here is the Luas depot plan for the empty areas around Broombridge station (:

http://www.dublinluasbroombridge.ie/Downloads/PlanofProposedWorks/02-STRUCTURES/21_BXD_DP_30_C-01.pdf

That looks great!
If they went with this, they'd probably have to watch that car-park regularly though. By looks of it, it would make a perfect Moped race-track! (Or a race-track for larger vehicles if the scumbags become that thick.)

The interchange looks very good too. A handful of meters between modes, and a new footbridge to the city-bound platform. The plan seems to have 4 Luas TVMs on the tram platforms. I wonder if they would make 1 or 2 of them into Irish Rail TVMs? (assuming that Integrated Ticketing doesn't appear before this proposed line ever materializes).

Zebra3

JHMEG wrote: »

I think the residents should be given 12 months to get reign in their delinquent children.

Not much point considering a lot of those casuing trouble in and around the station aren't children.

One question I'd love answered is who owns the land to the south of the station?

Judgement Day

Zebra3 wrote: »

Not much point considering a lot of those casuing trouble in and around the station aren't children.

One question I'd love answered is who owns the land to the south of the station?

CIE.

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

Closing the station doesn't fix people throwing rocks at the train. Some form of community / security program is needed.

No, the 10 foot security fence solves it.

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

No, the 10 foot security fence solves it.

I guarantee that would solve nothing. It would make it a bigger target.

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

I guarantee that would solve nothing. It would make it a bigger target.

I'll believe you if you quote me an example where a big security fence made things worse for passengers!

foggy_lad

JHMEG wrote: »

I think the residents should be given 12 months to get reign in their delinquent children. If they can't, level both platforms, erect 10 foot security fencing on both sides of the track, and provide a quicker/better service to everyone else.

shut the station now and dont stop a single train there until order is restored! and stop all busses out to broombridge also as the scum will target them when they are denied the trains as targets! the only thing that will stop these scum is their own families and neighbours who cant get to work etc they will soon sort out the skangers!

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

I'll believe you if you quote me an example where a big security fence made things worse for passengers!

I never said worse, I said a bigger target. If you genuinely think a fence will solve Broombridge's social issues (and related train issues) you are living in a very shut off naive world. Until the area is cleaned up (community / gardai based initiative) this will continue.

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

I never said worse, I said a bigger target. If you genuinely think a fence will solve Broombridge's social issues (and related train issues) you are living in a very shut off naive world. Until the area is cleaned up (community / gardai based initiative) this will continue.

No, it won't solve social issues, like unemployment or joyriding, but it's not in IE's remit to solve social problems. And the travelling public shouldn't be subjected to Broombridge's social problems either.

Anyway, what's it they say - good fences make for good neighbours. I'm a big fan of fences.

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

No, it won't solve social issues, like unemployment or joyriding, but it's not in IE's remit to solve social problems. And the travelling public shouldn't be subjected to Broombridge's social problems either.

Until these are fixed, trains at Broombridge will have stones thrown at them. It happens in far less socially deprived areas as it is. Fixing this in an area like Broombridge is far more complex than a fence, which would probably get ripped down anyway.

JHMEG

Part of Network Rail's answer to stone throwing is palisade fencing. It's used extensively here too, including on the up side of Broombridge.

Believe me, as long as the fence is big/strong enough, it'll work.

IE has a duty of care to its passengers. It has no obligation to provide solutions to social problems.

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

Believe me, as long as the fence is big/strong enough, it'll work.

One morning a few years back, every single item in the station was unbolted, the benches, the lights, the fencing and everything that could be unbolted, to be honest, I was kind of impressed, that takes a lot of organisation. With nearly any other place, I would agree however this will not work in Broombridge. Changing their culture, which is beyond the remit of IE is the only way to sort this out. It is naive to believe a fence will fix this.

foggy_lad

here in carlow in a socially deprived estate the scum kept breaking down a fence so a metal fence was erected and they kept taking off slats on that to create escape/rat runs to evade the guards etc so finally the council repaired the fence and welded all the slats onto the frames and also replaced all the bolts and welded the nuts so they cant be removed, they also welded the nuts on the anchor bolts. a days work with a welder and the fence has not been touched since!

there is scum-proof fencing available for these areas and it should be used.

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

Changing their culture, which is beyond the remit of IE is the only way to sort this out. It is naive to believe a fence will fix this.

Why do you keep telling us a fence won't fix the social problems around Broombridge? No-one said it would, and this is Commuting & Transport, not Social Science.

I want to see a solution to the vandalism of trains and terrorising of commuters.

thebman

TalkingGoose wrote: »

As an occasional user of the station for many years I feel it is a very valuable asset to the local area and I believe recently it has only been realised. My family have used the station for the last twenty years since we moved here. My mother uses it to get to work out to Sydney Parade, and for the last three years my brother uses to get to college in Maynooth. It is also used by the majority of my friends studying in Maynooth as it is by far the easiest way to get there.

It's used more frequently at peak hours, today there were over 20 people got off at 6 coming out from town. I've been lucky as the most that has ever happened to me at the station is to feel a bit intimidated, but there is a major problem at the station with scumbags and antisocial behaviour, you just have to look at the place. It is a complete embarrassment to bring friends to the area by train. When there were talks about it closing down/being moved there was good local support for it to remain open and many people have now started to use it more often.
There have been some attempts to get a ticketman and security there, I’ve seen them a couple of mornings with the bag that like the man who would sell tickets to you on the train. I'm not how sure how long they were there for but no sign of them there throughout the day. Another morning there were 2 IE staff there and we filled out forms and got little cards saying we boarded the train at Broombridge and were suppose to carry them with us every time we travel from there.

Anyway sorry for the long windness of this post and dragging up the topic again, i just wanted it to be konkn that the station is being relatively well supported, just a 19 year old kid trying to make a difference, jesus that was a bit cheesy. Well we definately won't be winning station of the year anytime soon but I always wondered what would happen if a few pots of flowers were put up on the station, how long would they last and would we get most improved station?

I think the station should be closed and trains not stopping there until the community sorts is social problems out among themselves TBH. I have no problems with it opening afterwards but it isn't that far to the next station for the few people that use Broombridge and at the moment, it is a money pit and a threat to the safety of passengers from other areas.

It must go until the community gets its act together IMO. If nothing else, it might act as incentive for the community to start an initiative if they really want the station.

At the moment, I rarely use the train as I have a car now but don't like using it because of Broombridge station.

paulm17781

JHMEG wrote: »

Why do you keep telling us a fence won't fix the social problems around Broombridge? No-one said it would, and this is Commuting & Transport, not Social Science.

Because until you fix the social issues, they will continue throwing stones etc. A fence will not help in an area like this. It may come as a shock to you but a fence is little deterrent to folks like this, the presence of it will probably encourage vandalism. Now, you can keep living on your cloud where fences are solutions to all problems, I'll stay here where I know how folks like that operate. It's a shame this isn't social science, you'd probably learn why a fence for Broombridge is pointless if it was.

foggy_lad

paulm17781 wrote: »

Because until you fix the social issues, they will continue throwing stones etc. A fence will not help in an area like this. It may come as a shock to you but a fence is little deterrent to folks like this, the presence of it will probably encourage vandalism. Now, you can keep living on your cloud where fences are solutions to all problems, I'll stay here where I know how folks like that operate. It's a shame this isn't social science, you'd probably learn why a fence for Broombridge is pointless if it was.

take the train from them then and take all services and do not return them until the scum learn a bit of respect for their comminuty and society and other peoples property and if they cant do this i say build a big high wall around them!

monument

The idea of fencing everything up is pointless given the plans for Luas BXD.

Hungerford wrote: »

RPA plans Kiss and Ride for Broombridge:

http://www.independent.ie/national-news/kissandride-facilities-planned-for-tram-stations-2230812.html

I suspect it would have been park and ride but for the local joyriders. :rolleyes:

Or that there's no room after the inclusion of a stop, bus stop, "kiss and ride" (sic), a tram depot, and staff parking?

paulm17781

foggy_lad wrote: »

take the train from them then and take all services and do not return them until the scum learn a bit of respect for their comminuty and society and other peoples property and if they cant do this i say build a big high wall around them!

If you take the train from Broomridge, you take away the Dublin to Sligo line. Having a station isn't the issue, having a train through an area with a lot of bored "people" who think throwing stones at trains is fun is.

I'd like to think there is a quick fix for this but there isn't, the Luas BXD extension may help (or turn out the same way) but unless there is a gardai / community based initiative, this problem isn't going away.

Judgement Day

Vandalism/crime/petty violence (stone throwing) is a major bugbear of mine and you'll have to forgive my Guinness impaired brain for not remembering this before: http://www.btp.police.uk/passengers/issues/route_crime.aspx

Q trains have operated in the UK for decades and while they still have a serious problem with crime and trespass on the railway at least they don't just sit on their arses, helplessly wringing their hands as we specialise in doing in Ireland on a whole range of issues. I have repeatedly written to Dick Fearn about vandalism on the DART lines and despite all sorts of assurances nothing has happened.

Why can we not have Q trains here? Why can we not have a Transport Police? Why can we not have an all-out campaign against railway trespass, with high profile prosecutions? The reason - this is Ireland and we never do anything until it is too late. This used to be the British way but we now carry the torch. :mad:

foggy_lad

paulm17781 wrote: »

If you take the train from Broomridge, you take away the Dublin to Sligo line. Having a station isn't the issue, having a train through an area with a lot of bored "people" who think throwing stones at trains is fun is.

I'd like to think there is a quick fix for this but there isn't, the Luas BXD extension may help (or turn out the same way) but unless there is a gardai / community based initiative, this problem isn't going away.

well obviously you dont pull up the track but building a high wall or fence each side of the line will make it scum-proof and protect the passengers who do not throw stones or leave items on the tracks to derail trains or spray grafitti on everyones property because they have nothing, dont deserve anything and never will have anything!

i had very little growing up, we were not in any way well off in fact by todays standards we would be called deprived but i never sprayed paint on a single wall or broke a single window etc. dont excuse the scumbags bad behaviour by saying we all need to spend even more money on fixing their social issues.

broombridge and other areas are no go areas because the scumbags know that with so many bleedin heart social worker types around they will never have to face any consequences for their anti-social and criminal actions because they have a hard auld life!

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

Because until you fix the social issues, they will continue throwing stones etc. A fence will not help in an area like this. It may come as a shock to you but a fence is little deterrent to folks like this, the presence of it will probably encourage vandalism. Now, you can keep living on your cloud where fences are solutions to all problems, I'll stay here where I know how folks like that operate. It's a shame this isn't social science, you'd probably learn why a fence for Broombridge is pointless if it was.

Keep the personal remarks to yourself, thanks.

Fences have a proven track record - if they didn't we wouldn't have them, we'd have something else.

monument

When was the last time a train was hit with something passing or at the station? When did the events people mention take place -- last week? Last year? Five years ago? Ten year ago? And how does this compare to the rest of the network?

When were the securty cameras put in? What's the the area like today?



The area's problem is that some criminal behaviour is left not policed properly. It's a common problem for areas like this at or beside canals and out of sight from houses and businesses to be a trouble spot.

Closing off a station will make the area a more isolated place. The railway will have less of a connection with people and business in the area. The "scumbags" would then see the train line as more and more just something they should not care about, something for outsider.

Craig Fay

Was at this station with my Dad, maybe a year or so ago, and there were two young girls of about 13 or 14 on the Maynooth-bound platform. They started throwing stones at some swans in the canal. My dad told them to stop (we were a good distance down on the opposite platform) and they did. However, after a couple of minutes they started shouting "pervert" toward us :rolleyes:

The problem with this area is far from being just a few of the lads with motorbikes on the platform or bricks at the trains. If the Luas line goes ahead, it will likely just lead to the increased number of passengers being harassed (verbally or physically) at the station. With these kind of locals around, a permanent Garda presence seems to be the only option, as I don't believe private security guards will have a deterring effect (especially if they are "foreigners") =/

paulm17781

foggy_lad wrote: »

i had very little growing up, we were not in any way well off in fact by todays standards we would be called deprived but i never sprayed paint on a single wall or broke a single window etc. dont excuse the scumbags bad behaviour by saying we all need to spend even more money on fixing their social issues.

I bet you were raised well though? This issue is nothing to do with wealth (or lack there of) it is about social responsibility, something the people who do this (or their parents) probably don't have.

The folks at Broombridge who do this have parents who don't give a f* what they're at. I'm not talking about spending money. The issues at Broombridge will not be solved by a fence, the fence would be the target as soon as it goes up*, I'm sure some joy riding and car burning will make short work of any fence IE were to put up. Until the areas surrounding the station improve, stones being thrown at trains (etc.) will continue. How you improve the areas is not my field, a combination of policing / community clean up programs is the only thing that will help that station.

foggy_lad wrote: »

broombridge and other areas are no go areas because the scumbags know that with so many bleedin heart social worker types around they will never have to face any consequences for their anti-social and criminal actions because they have a hard auld life!

Don't get me wrong, I couldn't give a toss how "hard their lives are" or their "reasons" for their behaviour. Personally I'd like the seem all arrested, their parents too if they repeat offend. The world would probably be no worse without these people. None the less, in dealing with a situation like the one that exists at Broombridge, you need a real long term solution.

*I once saw a truck removing cars from the area beside the track, I counted 16 the previous evening. When I was coming home, there were none. The next morning, I counted 7 burned out cars in the same area that had appeared overnight. I don't remember if this was before or after they blocked off that area adjacent to the station it made little difference either way.

Monument, I haven't been through that way in about 6 - 7 years but from what is said here, it hasn't improved.

paulm17781

Craig Fay wrote: »

Was at this station with my Dad, maybe a year or so ago, and there were two young girls of about 13 or 14 on the Maynooth-bound platform. They started throwing stones at some swans in the canal. My dad told them to stop (we were a good distance down on the opposite platform) and they did. However, after a couple of minutes they started shouting "pervert" toward us :rolleyes:

They should build a fence around the swans and your dad.

monument

paulm17781 wrote: »

Monument, I haven't been through that way in about 6 - 7 years but from what is said here, it hasn't improved.

The problem is only one (?) person has given a time frame as to when x, y, or z happened. So, we can't know if they were talking about in the last year or 20 years ago. Or they could be talking about the same events.

People may also be talking it up. It often happens to problem areas. And you have the people who think anybody wearing a tracksuit or hoodie is a danger / scumbage / etc.

JHMEG

paulm17781 wrote: »

They should build a fence around the swans and your dad.

But that wouldn't solve any problems.:P

handlemaster

only recently become familiar with this area by passing by in the train. I never even heard of it until the last few months. I always wondered what it was like, looking at burnt platform shelter and the giant boulders on the access road give me a hint.

OUTOFSYNC

Have they started work on the luas yet ?
That. Should transform broombridge.

Also DIT are supposed to be relocating their sports facilities there also. Is that still going ahead.?

There is planning permission for houses on one of the derelict industrial sites on bannow road too.

Hopefully the whole area / station Will finally improve dramatically over the next few years .

handlemaster

Are they going to move the people out who would rob the eye out of your head !

room_149

handlemaster wrote: »

Are they going to move the people out who would rob the eye out of your head !

The LUAS works will commence next year at Broombridge. When it's finished it will house a new depot & a hub that will link the western arrow commuter line with the LUAS Green line. This will travel into the city via Cabra, Phibsboro, Grangegorman, the old Broadstone station, Dominicks St, Parnell st, Marlborough & then over the river to St Stephens Green. People in the know have told me that there will be a beefed up security presence in the area similar to what's provided at Connolly or hueston, whilst the works take place & afterwards when DIT's new playing fields are in place there. The platforms as we know (and love them:rolleyes:) know will be transformed.

I take your point about some of the types who lurk around there - the place can be a kip and is situated next to rougher parts of cabra/ Finglas, but the area adjacent to the station is far from being a wasteland and is a hive of commercial & industrial activity.

The Kepack factory aside, there are quite a number of Businesses & Factories in the Dublin Industrial estate just to the left of Broombridge- Colorman (sic) & MWV Healthcare Dublin employ over 200 people each for example. Woodies, Kodak & Lidl are a few mins walk down the road, as is Ricoh and Des Kelly. An Post are opening a large sorting office soon plus there are some other food processing & life science firms in the estate too. I drove through the estate a few weeks back to visit a customer on the lagan rd there for a meeting & was surprised to see that occupancy rate for the place was at the 70% mark with some new businesses open since I last visited in 2011.

Along with the Dublin ind estate, the Ballybogan rd is a 5 min walk from the station and it also houses a large number of companies and business.

Many people working in these places, professionals or otherwise, are warned off using Broombridge due to its well documented problems. Hence the low numbers of people getting on and off there, I guess. Also there is no means of purchasing a ticket there, nor is there a facility to use a leap card from the platform. (I've seen those idiot inspectors hand fines to people who got on the train from there on occcasion a few evenings too. Typical Irish rail not getting to the root of the problem and penalizing commuters instead!!)

The car traffic through the area is quite heavy during both rush hours and I'd punt that many of these people would use the station if Irish rail had the gumption to do something with the station in the past and provide their customers with the duty of care expected of them at broombridge, rather blame the garda/ the locals etc.

It is hoped the luas works will act as an instrument of change for the area along with the DIT sports complex however. Plus there is talk of a 1/3 of the Dublin industrial estate being rezoned as (much needed)housing ala Ashtown down the tracks from it.

n97 mini

paulm17781 wrote: »

*I once saw a truck removing cars from the area beside the track, I counted 16 the previous evening.

I counted 26 one morning on my way into work. Number 26 was still very much on fire and the smoke could be seen from Connolly, due to a lovely clear morning.