Where do Cork go now?

teednab-el

Will Cork ever come back and win sam? Are they capable of winning it in the future? Should we just loose Munster and adopt the Kerry approach to sam?

Het-Field

Dont read too much into today.

Regardless of what people say, this Kerry team is awesome. They are husslers, who subsequently dont break a sweat to win an All Ireland. They have wonderful strength in depth, and one would imagine that their second team could beat many a county, with a full strength 15.

This Cork team is developing. However, it must be sure not to take today to heart.

lukin

Yes Kerry are awesome and Cork are well behind them but it has to be said the qualifiers have been a disaster for Cork and a Godsend for Kerry.
How many All-Ireland's would Kerry have won this decade without them? It's cost Cork at least one. That's just the way it is, the qualifiers are here to stay and we just have to get on with it but it is extremely frustrating for Cork supporters.

Spiritoftheseventies

Who knows. Cork were arguably best team in Ireland up until yesterday but as Dublin found out, Kerry can be hard team to beat in Corker.
Will ye win another Sam. Who knows. We dubs have been waiting fourteen years now. And every year we think we are good enough to win. But don't think any team goes out of their way to take back door route. Provincial route is still the best IMO.
And winning your province should mean something.

alibabba

I dont know what game ye were watching yesterday but Kerry were far from awesome.
Cork had 14 wides, half of those converted would have Sam in a different county today.
Cork had a great chance in the second half to grab the game by the scruff and win it, if they played like they did against Tyrone, they would have won.

And with regards to Kerry's second team beating most, ridiculous statement.

Up Galway !

lukin

bayviewclose wrote: »

Who knows. Cork were arguably best team in Ireland up until yesterday but as Dublin found out, Kerry can be hard team to beat in Corker.
Will ye win another Sam. Who knows. We dubs have been waiting fourteen years now. And every year we think we are good enough to win. But don't think any team goes out of their way to take back door route. Provincial route is still the best IMO.
And winning your province should mean something.

Well yeah but Dublin haven't even got into a final since 1995. (I'm not having a go at ye btw). Cork have been in four finals since we last won in 1990 and have lost every one.

coldwood92

back to cork!

Bren1609

On the bus back to Cork and then on strike

dhorgan3

alibabba wrote: »

I dont know what game ye were watching yesterday but Kerry were far from awesome.
Cork had 14 wides, half of those converted would have Sam in a different county today.
Cork had a great chance in the second half to grab the game by the scruff and win it, if they played like they did against Tyrone, they would have won.

And with regards to Kerry's second team beating most, ridiculous statement.

Up Galway !

Spot on alibabba. I was at the game....we cork have only ourselves to blame but the ref didnt help matters...he was SHOCKING!

Too many wides altogether...Kerry took there scores when it mattered most.

However, this cork team will be back...they are a great bunch...youthful, athletic strong etc etc....A work in progress!!

Colm R

Where to now:

-Take a break for a while.

-Finish off the club championship.

-Go on a holiday.

-Gather together.

-Play the league.

-And try again.

Thats about it really.

Spiritoftheseventies

lukin wrote: »

Well yeah but Dublin haven't even got into a final since 1995. (I'm not having a go at ye btw). Cork have been in four finals since we last won in 1990 and have lost every one.

Know the feeling. We lost to Donegal, Derry, Down (twice, one in a semi) before we finally took sam home in 95. Hope springs eternal!

vorbis

I posted the same in another thread, Cork need to stop taking the Munster championship seriously. All we're doing is showing Kerry our game plan if we play properly against them. There's no benefit to winning Munster anymore.

Spiritoftheseventies

Thats silly talk. Any team that goes out to deliberately lose a provincial championship cant be taken seriously. Not a question of showing Kerry your game plan. Put simply your team had Kerry on the ropes from 50th to 60th minute and didn't convert your chances.
They froze on they day.

vorbis

We didn't have them on the ropes, not sure what game you were watching. The wides statistic is misleading, most of them were from 45 yards. They're great points if they go over, certainly not gimmes. Kerry by contrast worked themselves chances from 20 yards out.

Anyways my point still stands, there's no reason to try to beat Kerry twice in one year.

lukin

vorbis wrote: »

I posted the same in another thread, Cork need to stop taking the Munster championship seriously. All we're doing is showing Kerry our game plan if we play properly against them. There's no benefit to winning Munster anymore.

Yeah it seems that way. The thing that drives me crazy is that we actually HELPED Kerry win this All-Ireland. First of all we beat them in Munster which gave them extra games in the qualifiers and then we beat Tyrone for them too!
Jack O' Connor should send a thank you card to Conor Counihan.
:mad:

aidan24326

teednab-el wrote: »

Will Cork ever come back and win sam? Are they capable of winning it in the future? Should we just loose Munster and adopt the Kerry approach to sam?

Cork simply don't have a forward line good enough to go all the way. That was proven yesterday. Now their forward line overall is decent enough I'm not saying they're crap or anything like that, I suppose what I mean is that they lack the couple of really top-class forwards you need to win an All-Ireland. They haven't got a Peter Canavan or a Padraig Joyce and you need forwards of that class to win Sam. They have good backs, a strong midfield and brilliant athleticism all over the pitch, but their forward line just lacks those couple of match-winning forwards that will get you over the line. To put that in perspective, all 6 of the Cork forwards would struggle to make the Kerry starting 15. (the likes of Paul Kerrigan, Daniel Goulding and Patrick O'Connor would have no chance at all)

Spiritoftheseventies

We beat Meath, and they got to All Ireland Semi. Hard luck stories everywhere. End of the day, Cork never reproduced the form that saw them beat Tyrone. Agreed a few of those wides were down to Kerry pressure and the Goulding goal chance was another missed opportunity. But again the game was still very much in the balance with ten minutes to go.
But Cork when they had Kerry on the ropes early in the second half did not press their advantage home.

Orizio

No where. Cork GAA isn't going to get another All-Ireland for 5+ years, if we are lucky.

daphilp

aidan24326 wrote: »

Cork simply don't have a forward line good enough to go all the way. That was proven yesterday. Now their forward line overall is decent enough I'm not saying they're crap or anything like that, I suppose what I mean is that they lack the couple of really top-class forwards you need to win an All-Ireland. They haven't got a Peter Canavan or a Padraig Joyce and you need forwards of that class to win Sam. They have good backs, a strong midfield and brilliant athleticism all over the pitch, but their forward line just lacks those couple of match-winning forwards that will get you over the line. To put that in perspective, all 6 of the Cork forwards would struggle to make the Kerry starting 15. (the likes of Paul Kerrigan, Daniel Goulding and Patrick O'Connor would have no chance at all)

Bang on aidan24326. I am a Corkman, but if we we're being honest, would any of the Cork forwards mark the Kerry bench. To my way of thinking Cork may be the best "basketball" team in the country,(run handpass, run handpass etc.) but Kerry can also play football. The key game this, (and last year), were the games against Limerick to my mind. They showed how to stop Cork's running game and Cork have no plan B.
Kerry dropped deep for a lot of the game and invited us on, but by the time we handpassed our way to their 45, even Dara had trotted back into position. We could not deliver 40/50 yard footpasses to speed up the game. No diaginal passes. Some of the efforts were shocking.
A lot of the time, the Kerry inside backs played from in front of their man. For anyone who played inside, this is the dream situation if your outfield players can deliver quick long passes, but we could not. Any passes we got right, our inside men did not have the power to hold on to the ball.

What now? Kerry admitted today on RTE that they only started serious training in July. What value a Munster title now? Maybe we should do the same. Certainly our forwards would be better off playing rugby for the winter and learning how to take and give big hits. As that would be too much for the Cork CB to take, perhaps we could get the Munster rugby conditioning coach in and add a bit of weight and muscle to the players.
Also it might be a good idea when playing training matches among themselves to ban the hand pass for periods of time as we are way behind Kerry in the foot ball side of the game.
Sorry for the long rant, there's always next year.
Dave

Orizio

daphilp wrote: »

Bang on aidan24326. I am a Corkman, but if we we're being honest, would any of the Cork forwards mark the Kerry bench.

Of course they ****ing would, jesus christ. :rolleyes:

daphilp

Who?

Orizio

daphilp wrote: »

Who?

All 6 of them.

I suppose you don't think your over-reacting? Those same forwards were excellent against Tyrone, the reigning All-Ireland champions.

Kenteach

I agree that the Cork forwards looked completely different against Tyrone, however the general point that people are trying to make, albeit with a few exaggerations on each side, is that no team could win an All Ireland with Cork's forward line. None would start on the Kerry team and the likes of Kieran Donaghy, Donncha Walsh and, dare I say it, Bryan Sheehan and Paul O'Connor would all start if Corkmen. Maybe I'm clouding my judgement on yesterday, but Goulding, Kerrigan and Kelly in particular are way off the standard required.

dartbhoy

It was a great disappointment yesterday but we have to remain positive,our under 21's and juniors claimed All Ireland titles this year and surely from these teams we have good players waiting to come on to the senior team. I think their is some change needed with the selectors too,Conor Counihan must remain as manager but i wouldn't be gone on that Gerard O'Sullivan as a selector,knowing people who worked with this man on club teams they said he was hard to work with and had an attitude of "his way or no way". Also Donnacha O'Connor reminds me of a player who can't psyche himself up for Kerry,he's been very poor this year.

blackbelt

Hard to say for sure but I think yesterdays defeat will set them back another 2 years.Next year will probably see Cork face Kerry yet again in Croke Park and nobody can really favour Cork as likely winners in the comfy confinds of Croke Park against Kerry.

I hate to admit it but Spillane was right,form is temporary but class is permanent.What we have here is a classic case.Cork were the best team of the championship yet still lost.Again Kerry have played terrible football in June and July and lifted Sam in September and they looked rather cosy doing so.Cork will be disheartened by this defeat for sure.The only team that could and have only stood in their way is Kerry and next year it has to be about revenge should they meet in Croke Park.Winning Munster has done something for Cork.It means their season wasn't a total disaster although you could argue that they'd be delighted to enter the quarter finals through the backdoor and draw Dublin.Seems to be the key for winning Sam these years.:mad:

ShamoBuc

Played poorly , 14 wides, point in it with 15 left!! There is alot to be positive about Cork football. The sideline shoud have brought Cussen to full forward at half time, the Kerry full back line were well on top and that is where they set up their attacks from. Why not swop both O'neills for last ten of first half? So many options none taken. Remember 87, 88, 89, 90? There are All Irelands in this Cork team the sooner the better!

The_Kew_Tour

ShamoBuc wrote: »

Played poorly , 14 wides, point in it with 15 left!! There is alot to be positive about Cork football. The sideline shoud have brought Cussen to full forward at half time, the Kerry full back line were well on top and that is where they set up their attacks from. Why not swop both O'neills for last ten of first half? So many options none taken. Remember 87, 88, 89, 90? There are All Irelands in this Cork team the sooner the better!

taught the same about Cussen too. If we were going play high ball it was best if it came to guy of his size rather then the smaller lads.

Yes that team that got to 4 all irelands in row were great side and only for ref giving sill free in 87 they would have won least three of four instead of the two

ShamoBuc

Remind me where the Ref was from again ... Tommy Sugrue.... ..... conspiracy theories have a foundation!

daphilp

Kenteach wrote: »

I agree that the Cork forwards looked completely different against Tyrone, however the general point that people are trying to make, albeit with a few exaggerations on each side, is that no team could win an All Ireland with Cork's forward line. None would start on the Kerry team and the likes of Kieran Donaghy, Donncha Walsh and, dare I say it, Bryan Sheehan and Paul O'Connor would all start if Corkmen. Maybe I'm clouding my judgement on yesterday, but Goulding, Kerrigan and Kelly in particular are way off the standard required.

My point exactly, although put in a nicer way. I was not joking about conditioning though. O'Neill should develope into a fine forward, but I think a stone of muscle added to that frame would be the icing on the cake. People mentioned Cussen, and yes I thought changes should have been made, but Cussen for all his height gets pushed around as well. Look at the Gooch, having a poor year by his standards and looks as if a breeze would blow him away. Hit a 40/50 pass to him however and it generally sticks.
Another point, I don't believe you can win an AI with the set up Cork have. You can not have two ball playing wing forwards. A least one of them has to be a "dog of war". I have wondered in the past if that should be Noel O Leary's position.
Btw my opinion on the team was not changed by yesterday's match. I felt before hand that if kerry "turned up" they would win, and I would dearly love to see Canty win an AI medal.

aidan24326

ShamoBuc wrote: »

The sideline shoud have brought Cussen to full forward at half time, the Kerry full back line were well on top and that is where they set up their attacks from. Why not swop both O'neills for last ten of first half? So many options none taken. Remember 87, 88, 89, 90? There are All Irelands in this Cork team the sooner the better!

I thought the Cork management were very slow to make changes. It's not the first time we've seen this in big games (I don't just mean Cork, it's been other teams aswell) where managers wait and wait and hold off on making changes until it's too late. What's the use of having a 30 man panel if you're not going to use the bench when it's needed.

Whatever faults James Masters may have, he's one man who knows where the posts are. He's always good for a couple of scores, yesterday Cork were crying out for someone to get the ball in his hands and just boot the bloody thing over the bar, yet we didn't see Masters until a few minutes from the end and by then Cork had already kicked the game away. Cussen is another man who could have offered a plan b option, yet we didn't see him until about the 67th minute. Too little too late.

Former Great

lukin wrote: »

Yes Kerry are awesome and Cork are well behind them but it has to be said the qualifiers have been a disaster for Cork and a Godsend for Kerry.
How many All-Ireland's would Kerry have won this decade without them? It's cost Cork at least one. That's just the way it is, the qualifiers are here to stay and we just have to get on with it but it is extremely frustrating for Cork supporters.

Lads were some of ye watchin the same game as i was yesterday , Cork absolutely dominated kerry in the second half ..They absolutely threw this game away with all the wides they kicked..

Former Great

alibabba wrote: »

I dont know what game ye were watching yesterday but Kerry were far from awesome.
Cork had 14 wides, half of those converted would have Sam in a different county today.
Cork had a great chance in the second half to grab the game by the scruff and win it, if they played like they did against Tyrone, they would have won.

And with regards to Kerry's second team beating most, ridiculous statement.

Up Galway !

100% agreed..Well apart from the up galway bit..

The_Kew_Tour

Former Great wrote: »

Lads were some of ye watchin the same game as i was yesterday , Cork absolutely dominated kerry in the second half ..They absolutely threw this game away with all the wides they kicked..

Agree nobody to blame but ourselves. if Cork had played to 70% they would have won it.

They blew it but its not first time this has happened

adrian280582

adrian280582 wrote: »

Agree nobody to blame but ourselves. if Cork had played to 70% they would have won it.

If Kerry had 2006 Player of the Year Kieran Donaghy fit from the start they may have won by a lot more.

If Darragh O'Se had not been a stone and a half heavier at Munster Final stage Kerry may have won that too.

If Kerry players had not been so 'outgoing' during the championship they may have impressed more.

If is a great word.

quad_red

It's hard to know.

Cork's finishing was appalling. But it's hard to say that if their scoring had been better, that they'd automatically have won that game. That may have spurred Kerry onto another gear. Ifs, buts and maybes.

Either way, and no matter how poorly the forwards played, the scoreline was still pretty close. In taking down a ruthlessly determined Tyrone team, a few new players announced themselves on the big stage.

Maybe there is a mental blockage with Kerry. But ye need not meet Kerry after Munster to win Sam... Kerry won it without facing Tyrone.

Doesn't make it any less valid or sweet.

alibabba

Former Great wrote: »

100% agreed..Well apart from the up galway bit..

WATCH THIS SPACE !

With Joe K coming into the galwya dressing room, Galway (fingers, toes, anything else crossed) will be a different team next year. We do have some good players, with fancy footballing skills but need a bit of muscle and 'throwing in the hard shoulder' .
If we can keep our style of play along with some of the Norths tactics, we can be a force once again.

Please god we can tune up to .... The Wests Awake !

The_Kew_Tour

Deleted User wrote: »

If Kerry had 2006 Player of the Year Kieran Donaghy fit from the start they may have won by a lot more.

If Darragh O'Se had not been a stone and a half heavier at Munster Final stage Kerry may have won that too.

If Kerry players had not been so 'outgoing' during the championship they may have impressed more.

If is a great word.

clap clap clap..stunning:rolleyes:

The_Kew_Tour

alibabba wrote: »

WATCH THIS SPACE !

With Joe K coming into the galwya dressing room, Galway (fingers, toes, anything else crossed) will be a different team next year. We do have some good players, with fancy footballing skills but need a bit of muscle and 'throwing in the hard shoulder' .
If we can keep our style of play along with some of the Norths tactics, we can be a force once again.

Please god we can tune up to .... The Wests Awake !

Always liked Galway footballers they play good game.

ye need bit of toughness and Joe think will do that for ye.

Might need 2 years or more though to show a real progress.

Silas

Cork will be there or there abouts in the next few years. Sundays loss would have stung but i would say Conor will learn alot from that defeat and come out stronger next year. Might be a good thing if some of the older players stay on, except anthony lynch. He might struggle next year.

adrian280582

adrian280582 wrote: »

clap clap clap..stunning:rolleyes:

Was it better than your 70% analysis.

Could you give us the formula for working that out again? I'm particularly interested as to how you arrived at that figure, and didn't pluck some other figure out of thin air like 86% or 54%.

Maybe because it was all a bit of idle nonsense and useless speculation on your part perhaps? With a bit of wishful thinking thrown in? Well 'clap clap' for that too!

The only thing we know for certainty is that Cork did not win it. Your speculation, despite your defensiveness and the use of emoticons, is no more illuminating than mine.

The_Kew_Tour

Deleted User wrote: »

Was it better than your 70% analysis.

Could you give us the formula for working that out again? I'm particularly interested as to how you arrived at that figure, and didn't pluck some other figure out of thin air like 86% or 54%.

Maybe because it was all a bit of idle nonsense and useless speculation on your part perhaps? With a bit of wishful thinking thrown in? Well 'clap clap' for that too!

The only thing we know for certainty is that Cork did not win it. Your speculation, despite your defensiveness and the use of emoticons, is no more illuminating than mine.

No ya see I was just being honest in what I said in my original post. You were being a jack ass.

I responded by being a smart ass and you come back with another jack ass comment.

What ya trying prove to me? oh actually dont bother replying if its anything by what I have read either it be another :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: or another :pac::pac::pac:

adrian280582

adrian280582 wrote: »

No ya see I was just being honest in what I said in my original post. You were being a jack ass.

I responded by being a smart ass and you come back with another jack ass comment.

What ya trying prove to me? oh actually dont bother replying if its anything by what I have read either it be another :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes: or another :pac::pac::pac:

Should I say 'clap clap stunning'?

I appreciate you are still smarting a little, and a tad touchy. But at least you're not as bad as you were in the immediate aftermath. Time is a great healer. If it helps you, I'll agree that if Cork had played 142% better in 35% less humidity they would have taken 12.5% more of their chances...though they still would have lost cos they were playing a better side...

By the way, you know that 'jackass' stuff? Who got all upset yesterday and posted...

adrian280582 wrote: »

[/B]What you said about me is out of line big time there. Not on.

Now I know Cork players can give it but can't take it, but come on!

The_Kew_Tour

Deleted User wrote: »

Should I say 'clap clap stunning'?

I appreciate you are still smarting a little, and a tad touchy. But at least you're not as bad as you were in the immediate aftermath. Time is a great healer. If it helps you, I'll agree that if Cork had played 142% better in 35% less humidity they would have taken 12.5% more of their chances...though they still would have lost cos they were playing a better side...

By the way, you know that 'jackass' stuff? Who got all upset yesterday and posted...



Now I know Cork players can give it but can't take it, but come on!

lol mate that total different discussion .i was not even talking to you man...

laughable

alibabba

as we use to say out in the school yard ....

Fight .... Fight .... Fight .... Fight .... Fight .... Fight ....

The_Kew_Tour

alibabba wrote: »

as we use to say out in the school yard ....

Fight .... Fight .... Fight .... Fight .... Fight .... Fight ....

ere sure thats all there good for down there;)

The_Kew_Tour

Deleted User wrote: »

Should I say 'clap clap stunning'?

I appreciate you are still smarting a little, and a tad touchy. But at least you're not as bad as you were in the immediate aftermath. Time is a great healer. If it helps you, I'll agree that if Cork had played 142% better in 35% less humidity they would have taken 12.5% more of their chances...though they still would have lost cos they were playing a better side...

By the way, you know that 'jackass' stuff? Who got all upset yesterday and posted...



Now I know Cork players can give it but can't take it, but come on!

O by way have you put this in mathematics thread yet.

they wont know what hit them;););)

dhorgan3

We will take sam back home to cork in the next couple of years...there is no doubt...u-21's are flying and the future looks bright...


I wouldnt even listen to the kerry folk..ha and they call us cocky

The_Kew_Tour

dhorgan3 wrote: »

We will take sam back home to cork in the next couple of years...there is no doubt...u-21's are flying and the future looks bright...


I wouldnt even listen to the kerry folk..ha and they call us cocky

Up ya boyo.

Kenteach

When you cut through all the childish tit for tat drivel, is anybody even trying to make a point here? The title of the thread is quite specific. So far a general acknowledgement that the cork forwards are not good enough to win sam, and hopefully, in due course, an acceptance that its no good haveing a clatter of 6ft+ players if they refuse to get physical. The 15 who lined out on Sunday could provide the bones of a Sam winning team. What is needed is at least 2 free scoring forwards and at least 2 months extra in the gym through winter. Keeper is back to near his best, full back is a natural, half back line well able to hold their own if they play to their strengths, a midfield that dominated for the entire 3rd quarter, and then......the O'Neills are good enough to survive up front, but any or all of the other 4 could either disappear or address their weaknesses and come back better players.

I'm not a huge fan of Cork or a lot of their followers (not a dig at anyone on here necessarily, just my unwanted opinion:D), but as a Louthman I need to find another team to monitor for most of the summer, every year! this year I watched Cork with interest, and while I still backed Kerry for Sam back in April, I was sweating on my money until about 3.45 on Sunday. Its an old cliché, and absolutely no solace right now, but you learn more from defeat than victory.

The_Kew_Tour

Kenteach wrote: »

When you cut through all the childish tit for tat drivel, is anybody even trying to make a point here? The title of the thread is quite specific. So far a general acknowledgement that the cork forwards are not good enough to win sam, and hopefully, in due course, an acceptance that its no good haveing a clatter of 6ft+ players if they refuse to get physical. The 15 who lined out on Sunday could provide the bones of a Sam winning team. What is needed is at least 2 free scoring forwards and at least 2 months extra in the gym through winter. Keeper is back to near his best, full back is a natural, half back line well able to hold their own if they play to their strengths, a midfield that dominated for the entire 3rd quarter, and then......the O'Neills are good enough to survive up front, but any or all of the other 4 could either disappear or address their weaknesses and come back better players.

I'm not a huge fan of Cork or a lot of their followers (not a dig at anyone on here necessarily, just my unwanted opinion:D), but as a Louthman I need to find another team to monitor for most of the summer, every year! this year I watched Cork with interest, and while I still backed Kerry for Sam back in April, I was sweating on my money until about 3.45 on Sunday. Its an old cliché, and absolutely no solace right now, but you learn more from defeat than victory.

No good post there have say. Sums it up reasonable well I think

Silas

Kenteach wrote: »

When you cut through all the childish tit for tat drivel, is anybody even trying to make a point here? The title of the thread is quite specific. So far a general acknowledgement that the cork forwards are not good enough to win sam, and hopefully, in due course, an acceptance that its no good haveing a clatter of 6ft+ players if they refuse to get physical. The 15 who lined out on Sunday could provide the bones of a Sam winning team. What is needed is at least 2 free scoring forwards and at least 2 months extra in the gym through winter. Keeper is back to near his best, full back is a natural, half back line well able to hold their own if they play to their strengths, a midfield that dominated for the entire 3rd quarter, and then......the O'Neills are good enough to survive up front, but any or all of the other 4 could either disappear or address their weaknesses and come back better players.

I'm not a huge fan of Cork or a lot of their followers (not a dig at anyone on here necessarily, just my unwanted opinion:D), but as a Louthman I need to find another team to monitor for most of the summer, every year! this year I watched Cork with interest, and while I still backed Kerry for Sam back in April, I was sweating on my money until about 3.45 on Sunday. Its an old cliché, and absolutely no solace right now, but you learn more from defeat than victory.

Well put. Defensively they are at All Ireland standard, they just need a few more scoring forwards