What it means to be a LOI fan.

ANTIFA!

The love that dare not speak its name

By Eamonn Sweeney
Sunday September 20 2009
I fell in love again last week. We've had our ups and downs and there have been times when I've wondered if it's worth the trouble. There have been disappointments, arguments and trial separations. But I've never been able to make the final break. The memories of the good times kept me going.

And on Tuesday night I was reminded why we've stuck together all those years. It's because this relationship has given me some of the best times of my life and because it can still provide the same fireworks as it did when I was a younger man. Logic doesn't apply when you're talking about love. A man in love has no choice. Most fans of what I will always, with apologies to eircom, call the League of Ireland are motivated by love. Domestic soccer has few casual fans because it rarely picks up enough momentum to set a bandwagon rolling. It demands not just your love but your faith, your hope and your charity.

Being a League of Ireland fan is like being a member of some small creed whose adherents make amends for their lack of numbers by fervency and dedication. Its grounds are perhaps the equivalents of those small town gospel halls where members of the Christian Brethren continue to practice their faith, their belief in the truth of what has been revealed to them not one whit lessened by the greater numbers attending other churches.

Sometimes that faith gets rewarded spectacularly, as it did on Tuesday night when I went to The Showgrounds and saw Sligo Rovers beat Bohemians 2-1 in an FAI Cup quarter-final replay. It was a magical night, not least because of the football played by Bohs, for my money the best team the league has seen for a decade. In the first half, with the marvellous double act of Joseph Ndo and Killian Brennan pulling the strings, they outclassed Rovers and should have led by more than 1-0 at the break.

Bohemians are a tribute to the instincts of their manager Pat Fenlon, who passed the ball beautifully as a player and insists that his charges try to follow his lead. Sligo's manager Paul Cook, a man with over 500 appearances in the Football League, is cut from the same cloth. Outclassed they may have been but Sligo tried to make their way back into the game by playing skilful football. Fortune favoured this act of bravery, a flowing move from their own half ended with Conor O'Grady equalising and soon afterwards winger Eoin Doyle struck a great winner. There were miracle escapes, mazy dribbles, last-ditch clearances, juddering tackles, all the stuff you'd need for a perfect night's entertainment. In the end, the league returns your love. It doesn't let you down.

At the same time as I was watching Sligo, the fans of Sporting Fingal saw their team shock Shamrock Rovers, Waterford United travelled to Dublin and knocked out St Pat's and Bray Wanderers made their way into the last four by disposing of Longford Town. Yet fewer Irish football 'fans' saw those matches than saw the more or less pointless, and rather dull, televised Champions League match between Manchester United and Besiktas. The couch potato majority were the big losers on the night.

Love of League of Ireland is the love that dare not speak its name. Or, at the very least, the love that's not supposed to. In these enlightened liberal times, you can parade through the streets in leather hot pants, you can set up home with whoever you want to, you can even confess to voting for Martin Cullen and nobody will bat an eyelid. Mention that you'd prefer to travel to The Showgrounds, Oriel Park or Turners Cross to watch your local team instead of to a pub with a big screen and Bulmers on draught to watch teams from cities you couldn't find on a map, however, and you're treated with the same kind of suspicion encountered by roving Jehovah's Witnesses in 1940s Ireland.

It's not enough for the League of Ireland merely to be ignored, there also seems to be a desire to serially deride it, to sneer at its fans, to recommend that it be liquidated altogether, perhaps so it can be replaced by some newly minted plutocrat-owned franchise which could enter the hallowed world of English soccer. In the Tiger era, this chorus of disapproval reached a crescendo. The League of Ireland was an embarrassment, perhaps because it's hard to imagine anything less Nouveau Riche. Though, in truth, it wasn't very Oldveau Riche either.

Like hare coursing and **** fighting, the very existence of League of Ireland soccer is treated as a personal affront by a sizeable number of people. It is execrated by the barstool Premier League devotee and the GAA supremacist alike.

Perhaps that's because a great many GAA supremacists are also barstool Premier League devotees. It never fails to surprise me that so many men who will wax lyrical till the cows have not only come home but got dressed up and gone out for the evening about the wonders of the little GAA club will also proclaim ad nauseam their attachment to an English soccer team.

Yet, while no one would deny the authenticity at the heart of Gaelic games fandom, there is something deeply shallow about the affection of Irish sports fans for English soccer teams. A minority of men and women spend a lot of time and money making the journey across the water to follow their favourite teams. But I find it difficult to take seriously support for a team based on totally arbitrary criteria.

Why, after all, does the man from Mitchelstown support Manchester United, the lad from Listowel love Liverpool, the chap from Callan cheer for Chelsea? Generally because they noticed that this team won more often than others, or were supported by most of the boys in the class or had a nice-looking geansai. You don't, as the saying goes, choose your club, you inherit it. But while that's true of Gaelic games or League of Ireland soccer, the opposite is true of Irish Premier League fans. They do choose their club and they try to choose one that wins. It's probably an enjoyable pastime but there's nothing genuine about it. Just how shallow this support is was brought home to me when I read an article about the magnificent Irish support apparently enjoyed by Liverpool. The writer informed us that Colm Cooper was "a die-hard Liverpool fan . . . whose big ambition is to one day visit Anfield."

Colm Cooper might be my favourite Gaelic footballer but I'm inclined to doubt the depth of his passion for Liverpool. Getting to Anfield from Killarney is not, after all, like setting out to conquer Mount Everest or walk to the South Pole. I'd be just as sceptical if a man told me he was a die-hard music fan whose big ambition was to one day go to a gig. There are plenty of Irish soccer 'fans' out there whose dedication is of the same order.

By contrast, supporting your local League of Ireland club is a genuine, a good, an honest and a decent thing in a world bedevilled by hype and sophistry. Above all, it is something real. As real as love.

Good article, not everything I agree with but the type of article which belongs on an Irish soccer forum.

NotWormBoy

Its not a bad article - quite well written, even if I don't agree with alot of it. I'd have been a lot more impressed if there wasn't so much "siege mentality" feeling about it, if there wasn't a smug feeling of superiority behind it all. Fans shouldn't feel the need to deride other fans for how genuine they are, or how often they go to their ground, etc - regardless of how much abuse they may get themselves for being fans of a particular club/competition. Live and let live, no?

As you say though, perfect for this forum.

stovelid

WARNING

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!!! The article reproduced in this thread contains a barstool reference !!!

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Melion

Eirebear

To be honest the only thing i see described in that article is a football fan.

As much as i dislike the overated league in England, and as much as i find it a little weird how huge a following it has in Ireland, i am left with one question.

What the **** is a "League of Ireland fan"?

Seriously, you dont support a whole league, you support a football team. Just like the rest of us.

One team, and all the rivalries and friendships that come with it.

Maybe fans of clubs who play within the League of Ireland should remember that, because this whole "League of Ireland Fan" nonsense only seems to drive people away in my experience.

CiaranC

NotWormBoy wrote: »

Fans shouldn't feel the need to deride other fans for how genuine they are, or how often they go to their ground, etc - regardless of how much abuse they may get themselves for being fans of a particular club/competition. Live and let live, no?

How anyone who claims to be a football fan could be of the above opinion is beyond belief.

Sunset V

Eirebear wrote: »

What the **** is a "League of Ireland fan"?

Seriously, you dont support a whole league, you support a football team. Just like the rest of us..

That's not true at all. LoI fans, as a whole, enjoy seeing LoI teams do well, with the exception of Bohs, I think a huge amount of people are delighted to see Rovers back as a force in Ireland. Huge numbers got behind Pats in their UEFA cup run last year and this year, similarly with Bohs this year and when Shelbourne came so close to Champions League football.

I think there is a great sense of camaraderie among LoI fans, we support our team, naturally, but also like to see other teams, and the league as whole, do well also.

I do agree with some people who say that LoI fans have a chip on their shoulder but you also have to see their side of the argument too. The rich cousin gets richer and richer, more TV coverage, attendances staying strong while here it's a bleak future. When you love the LoI you love it with a passion and want it to succeed, not just your own team. I think that's what a LoI fan is to be honest.

Anto McC

Eirebear wrote: »

Seriously, you dont support a whole league, you support a football team. Just like the rest of us.

Exactly. Great point.

Sunset V wrote: »

That's not true at all. LoI fans, as a whole, enjoy seeing LoI teams do well, with the exception of Bohs, I think a huge amount of people are delighted to see Rovers back as a force in Ireland. Huge numbers got behind Pats in their UEFA cup run last year and this year, similarly with Bohs this year and when Shelbourne came so close to Champions League football.

Can't say i agree with that. I never ever thought i'd see the day when i'd be happy to see Bohs win something but if it's over Rovers then i will be. Rovers haven't even won anything and already they are drowning in their own self importance and smugness. With a holier than thou attitude when they cut the same corners as Shels, Drogheda and many before but they think it's ok because they can blame it on the board in power at the time. Yeah, well who can't?

I think there is a great sense of camaraderie among LoI fans, we support our team, naturally, but also like to see other teams, and the league as whole, do well also.

One of the things i hate about LOI is this. Why would anyone cheer on their rivals? If Pats had got to the Europa league, it would have been worth a fortune to them, why would i, as a Shels fan, want to see them get further ahead of us than they already are?

When you love the LoI you love it with a passion and want it to succeed, not just your own team. I think that's what a LoI fan is to be honest.

Again, i disagree although i realise that i am one of a small few who feels this way. I stopped being a LOI fan years ago. I'm a Shels fan and a Shels fan only, the rest of the league can go to hell for all i care.

Dub13

The first part of the article is good,a nice piece about a man and his love for his club.I am not sure why he then goes off on a rant about another League.

stovelid

It's a matter of fact that you have more in common with LOI fans, often because of the derision and uninformed opinion that you encounter from some sectors of the football community.

To be honest, I do feel that I have some kind of common ground with LOI supporters, but I'm not too sure about 'supporting the league'. I don't mind seeing some LOI teams do OK (as long as it doesn't give disadvantage to Rovers) but I revel in the failure of others.

I think people take the comments of people like Sweeney re: EPL too seriously. He's on a wind-up (and 'apologies to Eircom'...wtf).Irish United and Liverpool fans, for example, swap far more semi-vicious banter here and elsewhere. Same when we play England. Yet any gentle ribbing about the LOI/EPL and it's big wounded faces and calls for play-fair.

Also gently ribbing armchair support is hardly a LOI invention. You think your Mancs, Scousers and the like don't do it about sections of their own support as well?

Dub13

I have more in common with real football fans be they in Drumcondra,Dundee or Doncaster.When I say real fans I mean real fans who know football,lads who know how to support their team and take a defeat for what it is.

You don't have to brag about the games you go to or the 'classics' you were at,supporting your team is about just that supporting them not putting other teams sets of fans down.

I would suggest that because Mr Eamonn Sweeney has to go bragging in a national paper about how much of a 'Superfan' he is that he in fact has a huge chip on his shoulder.

DSB

Dub13 wrote: »

I have more in common with real football fans be they in Drumcondra,Dundee or Doncaster.When I say real fans I mean real fans who know football,lads who know how to support their team and take a defeat for what it is.

You don't have to brag about the games you go to or the 'classics' you were at,supporting your team is about just that supporting them not putting other teams sets of fans down.

I would suggest that because Mr Eamonn Sweeney has to go bragging in a national paper about how much of a 'Superfan' he is that he in fact has a huge chip on his shoulder.

This just sounds exactly like the counterargument Eamonn Sweeney would make if he was of the opposite opinion.

gimmick

What it means to me to be an LOI fan? it means, by proxy, I accept minnowism, mediocrity and hard arsed efforts.

Sunset V

gimmick wrote: »

What it means to me to be an LOI fan? it means, by proxy, I accept minnowism, mediocrity and hard arsed efforts.

Minnowism, half arsed?

How about ignored and brutally under funded?

Dub13

DSB wrote: »

This just sounds exactly like the counterargument Eamonn Sweeney would make if he was of the opposite opinion.

I am just pointed out that real fans are a like it does not matter what team in what league they support.

DSB

Dub13 wrote: »

I am just pointed out that real fans are a like it does not matter what team in what league they support.

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

Sunset V

DSB wrote: »

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

I think you're spot on here.

Bobalicious93

DSB wrote: »

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

That's a load of rubbish to be fair.

pablomakaveli

It makes me cringe when i hear people harping on about being real fans because they support a LOI club. I don't think it helps the situation. The reality is that LOI clubs need as many people as possible going to games and this attitude only puts people off.

That said i also hate the kind of fans who decide to support whatever EPL is the currently the richest/most succesful and then turn around and say the LOI is ****e without ever having seen any games.

Both leagues have their obnoxious fans. But they both have great fans as well.

stovelid

pablomakaveli wrote: »

The reality is that LOI clubs need as many people as possible going to games and this attitude only puts people off.
.

While I don't want to inflame the real fan debate anymore than it is here, I think we need to put the myth to bed that there is some gigantic reservoir of untapped Irish football support that would be at LOI games every week if it wasn't for a few comments on internet forums.

GLaDOS

stovelid wrote: »

While I don't want to inflame the real fan debate anymore than it is here, I think we need to put the myth to bed that there is not some gigantic reservoir of untapped Irish football support that would be at LOI games every week if it wasn't for a few comments on internet forums.

It's all down to marketing. Its very easy to follow the EPL, it's everywhere, almost no effort is needed to keep up to date with everything that's going on.

The LOI on the other hand is horribly under promoted.

ANTIFA!

And that in reality is what it comes down to. Contrary to Mr.Nice Guys belief of and our 'cultal football dependance on Britain'' what it takes is to spice the league up. To make people believe that it matters. That the title run in is every bit as exciting as what is happening elsewhere. Even the current LOI product would look completely different if they were getting 12,000 at games as opposed to 2000.

However the Irish media seems to want to prolong this charade.

ShooterSF

DSB wrote: »

Well yes, there are real fans who support Liverpool, and Manchester United, but these people are from or reside in these areas. There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none. Thats not to say they shouldn't enjoy the higher standard of football or anything. I'm not trying to tell people what to do with their time. Sorry in advance for the hullabaloo and offence some people will take to such a statement.

Could you expand on why you think that though?
The best line in that article was " Logic doesn't apply when you're talking about love. A man in love has no choice." I love Manchester United. Watching them win (like yesterday) has me jumping around the room like an idiot and watching them lose like against barca had me near tears.
How is it any different than say if I supported Dundalk (close enough to Navan). Other than I was born closer to their football pitch? It would still be silly for my to feel like I achieved anything because a group of other people who play their football on a pitch near me win a match. A club's geographical location has nothing to do with the feelings one has for it especially in today's modern era where I can watch practically all their matches from home..

Foxx92

ScienceNerd wrote: »

It's all down to marketing. Its very easy to follow the EPL, it's everywhere, almost no effort is needed to keep up to date with everything that's going on.

The LOI on the other hand is horribly under promoted.

Totally agree. Before I started supporting Galway United I bearly knew they existed. I was at a FAI soccer camp in Terryland years ago and tbh playing on that pitch was what made me follow United. I was hugely impressed by everything there (I had never been to any other stadium bar Croker) and wanted to see a soccer match live. I did, and have never looked back since.

Thing is, if I had never been there I would probably still be sitting at home remote in one hand cheering on Liverpool. The lack of promotion is astounding. The FAI do nothing and it is usually up to the Supporters trust to do any match promotion. Also RTE do no favours, for example their advertisement of sport next year didn't even mention the LOI.

GLaDOS

Foxx92 wrote: »

Also RTE do no favours, for example their advertisement of sport next year didn't even mention the LOI.

Yeah, and a lack of coverage when teams actually win games in europe really stinks

Sunset V

Foxx92 wrote: »

Totally agree. Before I started supporting Galway United I bearly knew they existed. I was at a FAI soccer camp in Terryland years ago and tbh playing on that pitch was what made me follow United. I was hugely impressed by everything there (I had never been to any other stadium bar Croker) and wanted to see a soccer match live. I did, and have never looked back since.

Thing is, if I had never been there I would probably still be sitting at home remote in one hand cheering on Liverpool. The lack of promotion is astounding. The FAI do nothing and it is usually up to the Supporters trust to do any match promotion. Also RTE do no favours, for example their advertisement of sport next year didn't even mention the LOI.

Spot on.

There is a group of journos who cover the LoI in national papers but apart from the Mirror and Indo on a Friday, there is little or no print coverage. There are press conferences every week for every club and there is nothing done about it. These press conferences are huge news for the EPL but I don't know how many people know they even take place here.

Also in relation to ScienceNerd, correct, when Bohs held Salzburg. It wasn't the lead story on the RTÉ sports bulletin and they spelt Salzburg wrong! I do like MNS, I think it does a great job but the coverage overall is horrendous.

gosplan

Love of League of Ireland is the love that dare not speak its name. Or, at the very least, the love that's not supposed to. In these enlightened liberal times, you can parade through the streets in leather hot pants, you can set up home with whoever you want to, you can even confess to voting for Martin Cullen and nobody will bat an eyelid. Mention that you'd prefer to travel to The Showgrounds, Oriel Park or Turners Cross to watch your local team instead of to a pub with a big screen and Bulmers on draught to watch teams from cities you couldn't find on a map, however, and you're treated with the same kind of suspicion encountered by roving Jehovah's Witnesses in 1940s Ireland.

stovelid wrote: »

It's a matter of fact that you have more in common with LOI fans, often because of the derision and uninformed opinion that you encounter from some sectors of the football community.

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

Neither on this forum or in public have I heard anyone seriously slag LOI fans. when I think LOI I think of people like Pat Fenlon, Brian Kerr and Mick Wallace - basically of grassroots football in this country, and I think the same thing of their fans.

So where the hell is all this supposed derision and slagging you always get? I mean FFS, you act like you've all lived through the Holocaust together or something.

To be brutally honest, on boards at least, the derision only goes one way and that makes this victim complex you have going on even more of a joke.

ANTIFA! wrote:

Lazy barstoolers

DSB wrote:

There are no real Liverpool fans from Ireland, living in Ireland. Absolutely none.

I mean, find me the last thread that was a thinly veiled pop at the LOI and it's fans as opposed to the other way around. When did I start a thread about how the EPL was 'real' football compared to the LOI?

Be smug, be superior, be whatever you want but you have to lose the 'shared victimhood' nonsense when you're pretty much consistently the aggressors in this argument.

Foxx92

gosplan wrote: »

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

Neither on this forum or in public have I heard anyone seriously slag LOI fans

The usual reply I get is "Why do you support them, they're shi te" If that's not slagging I don't know what is.

pablomakaveli

gosplan wrote: »

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

Neither on this forum or in public have I heard anyone seriously slag LOI fans. when I think LOI I think of people like Pat Fenlon, Brian Kerr and Mick Wallace - basically of grassroots football in this country, and I think the same thing of their fans.

So where the hell is all this supposed derision and slagging you always get? I mean FFS, you act like you've all lived through the Holocaust together or something.

To be brutally honest, on boards at least, the derision only goes one way and that makes this victim complex you have going on even more of a joke.

I've lost count of how many times people have looked at my like i've two heads when people ask me what team i support and i answer Cork City. And thats ampified when they ask "Well what english team do you support?" and i say "None".

I've also had a lot of people say "Cork City are ****" or "why would you support a crap team?". The derision is there believe me.

Also when i ask these people have they ever watched a LOI match the answer is more often than not a No.

stovelid

gosplan wrote: »

This seems to be an issue with all the LOI fans so can I seriously ask, what derision are you speaking of?

I meant in general really. Plenty of people in real life are mystified that you go to games. Loads of WTF looks and the kind of misinformed comments, that if made about their English team would be laughed at for inaccuracy and bluster.

Also, there are plenty of comments on here. I have little need to dredge them up. Cracks about poor quality football (from people who willingly lap up poor fare from the national team, Championship, SPL and even EPL). Also plenty of presumptuous comments if LOI supporters don't get automatically behind the national team.

I'm sorry if my comment inferred some kind of moral superiority (which wasn't intended). It's certainly the case that there are supporters of all leagues that have that. And I do think there is a certain LOI supporter that likes the idea of being a niche taste. Personally, I believe them to be well in the minority.

I have plenty in common with all football supporters. Plenty in common with other United supporters that, like me, watch most of the games from a barstool.

But I just have a bit more in common with people that watch a team here, like me. People who are on the other side of the ground from me, week after week. People who like going to games. It's just a feeling. And while I don't blindly support the league as a whole, I guess that the experience (hardships and good times) gives you a little more empathy with others in the same boat.

Gavin "shels"

Sunset V wrote: »

That's not true at all. LoI fans, as a whole, enjoy seeing LoI teams do well, with the exception of Bohs, I think a huge amount of people are delighted to see Rovers back as a force in Ireland. Huge numbers got behind Pats in their UEFA cup run last year and this year, similarly with Bohs this year and when Shelbourne came so close to Champions League football.

I think there is a great sense of camaraderie among LoI fans, we support our team, naturally, but also like to see other teams, and the league as whole, do well also.

I'll admit I used to support the League as a whole, cheer on teams in Europe, etc..., but that's long gone since the double standarding has started with the FAI, the cheating coming from teams ,etc... I'm a Shels fan now only, screw the rest of the teams in the League is how I go about my business these days.