Who is to blame for the recession?

SarahSassy

I know there are world wide issues at play here and also know people are happy to jump on the bankers and the developers but I think the fault also lies at the feet of all the SME directors who took all the profits out of their companies. The bulk of them have taken all the surplus cash out of the businesses and had nothing left for when times got tough. As such, the recessions is deeper and longer than it should be.

What do you think?

SS

PS Mods not sure where this should go so please feel free to move.

wudangclan

the bilderbergers.

ejmaztec

wudangclan wrote: »

the bilderbergers.

It was the bilderdevelopers.

Ruu_Old

We all had a hand in it, though greedy builders have to take the bulk of the blame.

My name is URL

Richard Fuld

Coriolanus

Wow, SME companies were to blame? You get points for novelty at least.

SarahSassy

Nevore wrote: »

Wow, SME companies were to blame? You get points for novelty at least.

As well as auctioneers, builders and banks but they are up to their necks in it as well.

Riamfada

Deh Foreign-ers

ejmaztec

SarahSassy wrote: »

I know there are world wide implications at play here and also know people are happy to jump on the bankers and the developers but I think the fault also lies at the feet of all the SME directors who took all the profits out of their companies. The bulk of them have taken all the surplus cash out of the businesses and had nothing left for when times got tough. As such, the recessions is deeper and longer than it should be.

What do you think?

SS

PS Mods not sure where this should go so please feel free to move.

How do you know?

SarahSassy

ejmaztec wrote: »

How do you know?

Cos its my job to know.

Coriolanus

What do you do exactly?

AlmightyCushion

ejmaztec wrote: »

It was the bilderdevelopers.

If this doesn't get post of the day, then there is something wrong with this country.

SarahSassy

Nevore wrote: »

What do you do exactly?

It doesnt matter but my job deals with these types of companies and their finances and the bulk of them have drawn out any assets they had built up.

The chinese

trout

The truthful and simple answer is this: We are all responsible.

The only people who are blameless in this mess are those blessed few who didn't get greedy, complacent or arrogant about material trappings in the last 15 years.

It's all well and good for people to identify "the bogeyman" ... corrupt bankers, greedy developers, hapless politicians, and even SME directors ... what they are really saying is "someone else ... not me". It's popular, and populist ... but it's not true.

Did developers make you lust for a McMansion house ? Did bankers make you take out excessive loans ? Did you really need that plasma TV ?

Who ultimately is responsible for the money you earn, and the money you spend ?

We've no-one to blame but ourselves.

Daroxtar

john

SarahSassy

trout wrote: »

Did developers make you lust for a McMansion house ? Did bankers make you take out excessive loans ? Did you really need that plasma TV ?

Well I didnt buy into any of the above so I am entitled to comment.

35notout

I blame Terry

jester77

It was the people taking out the stupid mortgages, no idea what money was worth and thinking they could make a profit.

pikachucheeks

What recession?

Coriolanus

SarahSassy wrote: »

It doesnt matter

Of course it does. You're making an arguement from authority, expecting us to pay credence to what you're saying because "it's your job" to know these things.

SV

It was white men with blonde hair and blue eyes.

SarahSassy

Nevore wrote: »

Of course it does. You're making an arguement from authority, expecting us to pay credence to what you're saying because "it's your job" to know these things.

I threw the statement out for debate. Dont think there is going to be much intellgent debate here so am going to get it deleted.

Coriolanus

This is AH. What did you expect?

Irish Economy Board is here.

Profiler

Immigants! I knew it was them! even when it was the bears, I knew it was the Immigants...

I don't accept that we were all to blame. I could see an economy based upon house prices only ever going up was pie in the sky.

At the last election I ask an FF'er who called to my door what plans did they have for when the property bubble burst, he laughed and told me to not be listening to those who don't know what they are talking about...

People who voted for FF are to blame, Bankers who engaged in criminally stupid lending processes are to blame, Builders who paid daft amounts of money for land are to blame.

Not all of us are to blame but all of us will have to pay the price... unless of course you are a FF politician, a banker, a builder...

Diabhal Beag

It wasn't me anyways so keep the angry mobs out of Galway

SoupyNorman

It was Steve.


GET HIM!!

Nolanger

Irish Financial Regulator on Dame St - shower of useless c*nts. Most of those fools have no finance qualification and couldn't regulate a children's birthday party. Most civil servants are not as smart as the top people in the banks so hence the resulting recession.

ejmaztec

SarahSassy wrote: »

I threw the statement out for debate. Dont think there is going to be much intellgent debate here so am going to get it deleted.

I know of "some" SMEs where they operated on completely unnecessary overdrafts, and the same companies were bled dry, then some, by their directors.

The same companies are now so deep in the sh1t, with no back-up funds, and they'll be lucky to survive.

Dartz

Anyone who thought a 110% mortgage on a house costing 10 times your combined annual earnings was a good idea.

That is all.

dresden8

trout wrote: »

The truthful and simple answer is this: We are all responsible.



We've no-one to blame but ourselves.

This is a lie. The people who propagate it are liars.

caseyann

Minister for finance and his cronies

I wonder how many of them have had cash flow problems.Wait let me see none of them :rolleyes:

Euro_Kraut

Canada.

phlegms

Mary Harney.

stepbar

dresden8 wrote: »

This is a lie. The people who propagate it are liars.

And the people who believe the lies are idiots......

Fighting Irish

If you haven't got any debt
If you have savings
If you are have a job/college
If you haven't got a mortgage of €300K+

If you're in the above category the recession wasn't your fault

ilovelamp2000

It's nobody's fault.

Economies run in cycles. That is economics 101.

You can though blame lots of people for the extent of the recession, our last three finance ministers for a start. Had prudent budgetary measures been taken from the around the turn of the decade onwards the collapse wouldn't have been so large.

Borneo Fnctn

What are those politicians playing at?

It was everybodys fault????

It wasnt mine!! :mad: Dont try drag me into it!

We are all to blame, we are all to responsible, we all had our heads in the trough
MYTH/LIE/SPIN
2,000 individual loans make up the 77billion in toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
150 individuals are responsible for 50 billion of the toxic bad loans the tax payer is taking on.
32 Billion of the bank bailout is belonging to just two banks , chaired by two individuals who have since retired Michael Fingleton and Sean Fitzpatrick
There are just over 160 Members of Dail Eireann
There are 84 TDs in Government FF,Green,Independents
There are 81 TDs in Opposition

http://www.thepropertypin.com/viewtopic.php?f=50&t=25100

dylano_k

I blame the fecking greeks.
Well i hate tha fecking greeks... coming over here taking our women and our land, going around as if they own the fekcing place... tha greeks invented gheyness!

Daragh101

whatever about people buying up property, and developers going mental borrowing from banks, in fairness its not really their fault!
The government did not regulate the banks correctly, letting them lend money where they should not be, and telling people that the "good times were here to stay" was the real reason for the recession!
If your a developer and you think you can make a few bob from building an estate, why wouldnt you if the banks were willing to give you the money!

the builders/public caused the recession, but it would not have been caused if the banks were regulated properly!.

Rented Mule

I blame the tasty swans !!!

EAT THEM !!!!!!

Helix

trout wrote: »

The truthful and simple answer is this: We are all responsible.

The only people who are blameless in this mess are those blessed few who didn't get greedy, complacent or arrogant about material trappings in the last 15 years.

tbh i laugh in the face of the clowns who were cleaning up for the last decade and never thought to save a penny

know plenty of them myself

the deserve everything they get

skelliser

the public service, they caused the whole thing.
in fact we should go out of our way to vilify and look down on these people. They fcuked the whole place up.

because of them we have to help out our poor ff/developer friends, poor guys, they where only tryin to make a euro or two or a billion selling cardboard houses. bless. in fact we should be grateful to them, in the words of brian linehan "we should do our patriotic duty" and pay more tax, reduce services, reduce the dole to stop the evil onslaught from the public service greedy pigs.


btw i dont work in the public service, just see things as they are, spin spin spin, funny reading this thread tho, the first ff lie was , it was lehmanns brothers not us, move along to today and this thread, it was all our fault. lol!
Once again the irish people believe the hype and spin! WAKE UP FFS! FF/DEVELOPERS ARE GONNA THEIVE 54 BILLION AND YOU WILL PAY! but sure its the only game in town yada, yada, systemic importance, yada .yada, green shoots of recovery, yada yada knowledge economy blah blah etc

lostexpectation

bartholomew

AckwelFoley

Ruu wrote: »

We all had a hand in it, though greedy builders have to take the bulk of the blame.

Hows that?

They supplied a demand, and made a profit.

It was a free market, anyone could have got involved and build a home or a thousand of them to sell. Market sets demand, supply of, sets the price.

Its the people who foolishly "bought into" (pun intended) the hype that are responsible for their actions.
Equally, its the people that was responsible for jumping on the gravy train and turn a quick buck by overloading the developers with money to build houses. ie the banks

Apparently "profit" is a dirty word.

Its clearly only people with poor intentions that would wish to make it

stepbar

I'm amazed of the lack of discussion about the part estate agents, auctioneers and valuers played in the mess we're in at the moment. Christ even some of the auctioneers were developers themselves!!!! And in many cases the auctioneers / estate agents were also valuers, mortgage brokers and so on. A total conflict of interest if you ask me.

How many times have you heard of the story in the past of someone putting a bid on a house only to be told an hour later the price has gone up because someone else put on a bid? ("Someone" who I may add may as well have been fictional as you had no means of identifying who that person was). Remember in the height of the boom, some auctioneers and estate agents were achieving fees of up to 3% of the value of the property. Fabulous figures for acting as the middle man :rolleyes: It was well in their interest to keep stoking up the price.

Of course they weren't alone. It would be foolish to think otherwise.

skelliser

auctioneers, biggest made up job ever.

SLUSK

SarahSassy wrote: »

I know there are world wide issues at play here and also know people are happy to jump on the bankers and the developers but I think the fault also lies at the feet of all the SME directors who took all the profits out of their companies. The bulk of them have taken all the surplus cash out of the businesses and had nothing left for when times got tough. As such, the recessions is deeper and longer than it should be.

What do you think?

SS

PS Mods not sure where this should go so please feel free to move.

The central banks are to blame, they kept interest rates artificially low which always leads to bubbles which always ends up in a collapse.

You can read about it on www.lewrockwell.com or on www.mises.org

Senna

FFS i cant believe most people dont realise who is responsible, Bertie Ahern.

Yes a lot of people were greedy, business were greedy, banks were greedy. But elected elected offices are meant to impose restrictions to control debt, they were warned back in 2001 by the central bank about the huge burden of debt on the average person, but what did BA do, he allowed the banks to continue to lend at higher and higher levels, he allowed tax breaks for property that fueled a bubble, one that had already grown to unsustainable levels in 2001. He was working for the developers and land owners in everything he done, everybody elses greedy just got caught up along the way.

People are greedy, but when the greediest and most corrupt fcuker of all is running the country, the current mess is what results. Just because he out of office now, dont let this prick get away scot free.

Senna

SLUSK wrote: »

The central banks are to blame, they kept interest rates artificially low which always leads to bubbles which always ends up in a collapse.

You can read about it on www.lewrockwell.com or on www.mises.org

The ECB controls our interest rates, they set the rate for all Euro countries, from 2001 to 2005 interest rates were low because the economies of big nations like Germany weren't growing. It suited Germany to have low rates, and the ECB could really care what happened in small countries like us.
Germany and most other countries didn't have a bubble even though they had the same low rates as us, it was only stupid counties like us and spain that when mad on credit.