another cyclist hit by lorry

ednwireland

hope your all alright down there

from today FM news

Cyclist hospitalised after crash in Dublin
20/9/2009 10:46
Cyclist hospitalised after crash in Dublin A female cyclist is being treated in St.James's hospital after being knocked down in Dublin last night. The collision between the cyclist and an articulated lorry happened at the junction of Crumlin Road and Parnell Road at around 11pm. The woman is said to be in a stable condition.

hope she gets better soon anyway

listermint

Seen that last night. Bike didnt appear damaged but there did appear to be alot of blood on the road. Guards had scene cordoned off. Tesco Lorry making right turn off grand canal.

Caroline_ie

ah not again ffs!
hope she makes a good recovery.

biomed32

ffs, well wishing her all the best and a speedy recovery...

buffalo

listermint wrote: »

Seen that last night. Bike didnt appear damaged but there did appear to be alot of blood on the road. Guards had scene cordoned off. Tesco Lorry making right turn off grand canal.

Passed it last night as well, on the nightlink. Hope she recovers fully.

flickerx

Quick - lets get a petition together! Or lobby our local TDs!
Thats the best and quickest and only way to change things!

Yeah yeah I know, sarcasm is the lowest form of humour.

This just shows that it is important to have group rides around town when people are injured - even just for the point of showing to motorists that cyclists exist, and hopefully it might stick in their brains afterwards to watch out for us on the rest of their way home in gridlock. We're soft and warm flesh, they're cold and hard steel, they can make mincemeat of us fairly easily, its nicer when they dont.

Greenman

Any idea who was at fault?

At a junction be well in front or behind a truck.

Even make eye contact with the driver.I'm sure you agree some cyclists are not really thinking about what they are at, especially those who break lights,no lights,headphones,come from nowhere etc.

BTW my background is, I've been cycling in city traffic from the age of 8 when I got my Raleigh Olympus I'm now 45.When I lived in London I did about 12,000 miles a year. I still cycle every year but the distance has been reduced.

ED E

Was it a DB?

daymobrew

I was driving along South Circular Road at 7:45pm on Saturday evening. There were lots of bikes around but most were on the footpath.

The street lights had not come on but the sky was still quite bright. As a result, pedestrians and cyclists were almost impossible to see. High viz gear and lights would have helped.

Caroline_ie

flickerx wrote: »

This just shows that it is important to have group rides around town when people are injured - even just for the point of showing to motorists that cyclists exist, and hopefully it might stick in their brains afterwards to watch out for us on the rest of their way home in gridlock. We're soft and warm flesh, they're cold and hard steel, they can make mincemeat of us fairly easily, its nicer when they dont.

Are you being sarcatic too there?

I am taking the risk of sounding like a stone hearted b!tch here but, one day I almost hit a cyclist while driving. And that was not my fault at all. I was scared sh!tless for 2 weeks after that.
If anyone choses to ride their bikes, POBs or Not POBs at night with no light or hi viz, or not clue altogether, what can we do? Protest? Drivers should be responsible for cyclist's lack of judgement? I don't think so. We can't be protesting everytime someone gets hit. We are not poor oppressed people, there is not such a thing such as cyclist racism.
I got hit by a car not so long ago as well, because a driver did not see me on a roundabout. It was his fault, he admitted it, so I know these can happen too.

DirkVoodoo

Just to get a few things straight:

- No Lights = Illegal and very stupid(and my personal "worst commuter offence").
- Breaking Red Lights = Illegal and stupid.
- Wearing Headphones = Not illegal though potentially stupid.
- Coming out of nowhere = ??? Surely this means a driver is simply not checking their mirrors/being observant?

Caroline_ie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

- Coming out of nowhere = ??? Surely this means a driver is simply not checking their mirrors/being observant?

That could also mean that the cyclist just headed carelessly without looking onto a busy and fast road, like a deer on a busy motorway.

Chips Lovell

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

- Coming out of nowhere = ??? Surely this means a driver is simply not checking their mirrors/being observant?

Or the cyclist is some kind of superhero with special powers.

DirkVoodoo

el tonto wrote: »

Or the cyclist is some kind of superhero with special powers.

Name one superhero who would ride a bike? And no, there is no bikeman.

I can't imagine superman hopping on his dawes to make a trek up to the north pole.

That's just crazy talk.

EDIT: Nearly forgot about bicycle repairman, but he only repairs them and doesn't ride them.

Captain Havoc

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Name one superhero who would ride a bike?

Jens Voigt

Caroline_ie

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Name one superhero who would ride a bike? And no, there is no bikeman.

eeerrr ... hello???

Caroline_ie

and floyd landis :pac:

leeroybrown

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

- Coming out of nowhere = ??? Surely this means a driver is simply not checking their mirrors/being observant?

That's an extremely simplistic way to look at it. It's very easy for a cyclist to hide in the kerb-side blind spot of a vehicle (particularly a long one) and there's only so vigilant that even an observant driver can be in busy urban traffic. I both cycle and drive on busy urban roads. If I kept putting myself in stupid road positions in either case I'd end up getting hit.

DirkVoodoo

leeroybrown wrote: »

If I kept putting myself in stupid road positions in either case I'd end up getting hit.

I was simply trying to say that whereas lights, red lights, etc. are all clear cut and unambiguous, saying "he came out of nowhere" isn't and more often that not is used as an excuse for poor driving. I've had moments where I've gone to change lanes and not checked a blind spot only to see a car "come out of nowhere". It's a road, chances are there will be something on it.

EDIT: Sorry, I misread that. I am happy to cycle BEHIND a car, not in the blind spot. D'oh!

leeroybrown

I see the point that you're trying to make. That said, it is very easy for a cyclist to come out of nowhere. Near junctions a filtering cyclist can easily come out of traffic and slot into the bind spot of a slow moving car when the driver's attention is (correctly) focused on immediate hazards in front of them. There are certain low-speed junctions where I'll deliberately slot into the very back of the drivers blind spot because it suits me. Half the time they probably don't even realise I'm there.

DirkVoodoo

leeroybrown wrote: »

There are certain low-speed junctions where I'll deliberately slot into the very back of the drivers blind spot because it suits me. Half the time they probably don't even realise I'm there.

I do the same and I'm happy to take the extra few seconds to be safe. I'm not condoning poor cycling, of which one sees plenty everyday. It's just that "coming from nowhere" appears to be a relative accusation. I might be cycling along a clearly marked cycle lane, lights on and going at a speed safe for the conditions, but to someone not paying attention I could be seen to be "coming from nowhere". These are all just my own observations and nothing more significant, but nearly anytime I have been almost taken out on the bike by a car (bar one incident I clearly recall where I thought I had a green light but it was the filter light, car beeped at me), I wasn't doing anything other than cycling in a sensible manner.

bcmf

As a motorist:
You are expected to expect the unexpected. As a motorist you should expect a child to run out between 2 cars,A drunk to fall down in front of you at 3am, a cyclist to make a move out of the blue AND ADJUST YOUR SPEED AND DRIVING ACCORDINGLY. AS A MOTORIST afaik if you hit someone regardless of the scenario YOU ARE AT FAULT.This is how an insurance company,solicitor,court of law will see it.
I say this from personal experience but from many many years ago so if has changed please let me know.

bcmf

leeroybrown wrote: »

I I'll deliberately slot into the very back of the drivers blind spot because it suits me. Half the time they probably don't even realise I'm there.

If you are saying that you deliberatly go into a drivers blind spot then that is incredibly stupid behaviour and more than likely come to the conclusion of the bleedin' obvious.

whatdoicare

I know this girl who regularly cycles and thinks she's the greatest cyclist ever - yet the other day I was gobsmacked as I watched her cycling NEXT to a cycle lane, no helmet, no reflectors, no proper safety anything PLUS weither or not she was aware of it, I don't know, but she was cycling next to a car in what I would gather from my own car would be a major blind spot. She is often telling me about being knocked off her bike by inconsiderate drivers but I gather from that scenario that the majority of accidents were caused by herself! But she's not in the majority of cyclists- I realise that.
I'm often very nervous about overtaking a cyclist safely and dread seeing cyclists on narrow busy roads as I never know at any one time what they'll do or how road aware they are.

bcmf

If I think I am in a drivers blind spot a quick few taps on the car will usually alert them/wake them up and wonder WTF was that.

Lumen

whatdoicare wrote: »

I'm often very nervous about overtaking a cyclist safely and dread seeing cyclists on narrow busy roads as I never know at any one time what they'll do or how road aware they are.

There is no need to be nervous overtaking a cyclist. Just give them room. At worst you have to wait a minute or two for safer overtaking conditions, but this creates a nice bit of clear road to zoom down after you've overtaken.

Regarding your example: reflectors are unnecessary on an adequately lit bike and since adequate lighting is essential, reflectors are completely pointless. You would think, however, that given her propensity to get into accidents she would either wear a helmet or better still learn how not to get into accidents.

bcmf wrote: »

If I think I am in a drivers blind spot a quick few taps on the car will usually alert them/wake them up and wonder WTF was that.

So you put yourself where you know someone can't see you, then tap their car to alert them? Does not compute.

flickerx

bcmf wrote: »

a quick few taps on the car will usually alert them

yes, with the kryptonite mini.

Jumpy

whatdoicare wrote: »

I know this girl who regularly cycles and thinks she's the greatest cyclist ever - yet the other day I was gobsmacked as I watched her cycling NEXT to a cycle lane, no helmet, no reflectors, no proper safety anything PLUS weither or not she was aware of it, I don't know, but she was cycling next to a car in what I would gather from my own car would be a major blind spot. She is often telling me about being knocked off her bike by inconsiderate drivers but I gather from that scenario that the majority of accidents were caused by herself! But she's not in the majority of cyclists- I realise that.
I'm often very nervous about overtaking a cyclist safely and dread seeing cyclists on narrow busy roads as I never know at any one time what they'll do or how road aware they are.

I dont cycle on cycle lanes unless they are part of the road. Its too dangerous to use them as you have to cross junctions where you are least priority, on the road you dont.

The safety and visibility gear comment I can sympathise with on though. But dont assume that someone is being dangerous because they avoid cycle lanes. Sometimes its just commonsense.

leeroybrown

bcmf wrote: »

If you are saying that you deliberatly go into a drivers blind spot then that is incredibly stupid behaviour and more than likely come to the conclusion of the bleedin' obvious.

I said that at certain low-speed junctions I deliberately slot into the very back of a drivers blind spot. So long as it's a car you're not actually in imminent danger of being hit. Sometimes at low speeds if you can't take up a dominant road position then being close to the car in front is the best way to avoid being clipped by an oncoming car making an obscured right turn. You drop back out of the blind spot as soon as you've cleared the junction or filter through if traffic slows to a halt again.

Vélo

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Name one superhero who would ride a bike? And no, there is no bikeman.

I can't imagine superman hopping on his dawes to make a trek up to the north pole.

That's just crazy talk.

EDIT: Nearly forgot about bicycle repairman, but he only repairs them and doesn't ride them.

Blorg!

bcmf

leeroybrown wrote: »

I said that at certain low-speed junctions I deliberately slot into the very back of a drivers blind spot. So long as it's a car you're not actually in imminent danger of being hit. Sometimes at low speeds if you can't take up a dominant road position then being close to the car in front is the best way to avoid being clipped by an oncoming car making an obscured right turn. You drop back out of the blind spot as soon as you've cleared the junction or filter through if traffic slows to a halt again.

ok thats your call.

leeroybrown

bcmf wrote: »

As a motorist:
You are expected to expect the unexpected. As a motorist you should expect a child to run out between 2 cars,A drunk to fall down in front of you at 3am, a cyclist to make a move out of the blue AND ADJUST YOUR SPEED AND DRIVING ACCORDINGLY. AS A MOTORIST afaik if you hit someone regardless of the scenario YOU ARE AT FAULT.This is how an insurance company,solicitor,court of law will see it.
I say this from personal experience but from many many years ago so if has changed please let me know.

That's all true after an accident has actually happened. The problem is that in reality pretty much every accident has fault attributed but it doesn't stop them from happening. Regardless of whether I'm driving or cycling I don't expect a car driver to be fully observant, maintain good road position, signal correctly, etc. In bad weather or awkward driving conditions I expect things to degenerate to the point where what's wrong is the norm.

Most of the same points can be made about a cyclist but they're more imperative. A car driver is cocooned in a heavily crash tested shell and their primary focus is on hazards emerging ahead unless they're manoeuvring. As a cyclist you're sitting completely exposed on a small metal frame and you're moving out of sync with the rest of the world at risk from all sides. Now when I think of myself as the cyclist who's about to be crushed if one of use makes a mistake I take an extra onus of safety upon myself.

bcmf

Lumen wrote: »

T
So you put yourself where you know someone can't see you, then tap their car to alert them? Does not compute.

No. I said "If I think I am in a drivers blind spot..." ie if I think I have gotten into a position where I believe I am in someone's blind spot.

"So you put yourself where you know someone can't see you, then tap their car to alert them?"
Yeah. I would rather have them looking twice as hard as to what caused the noise then them just relying on their mirrors and a casual glance over their shoulder.

Lumen

bcmf wrote: »

I would rather have them looking twice as hard as to what caused the noise then them just relying on their mirrors and a casual glance over their shoulder.

This is completely unnecessary, and likely to cause confrontation. How do you know they haven't seen you already?

bcmf

Lumen wrote: »

This is completely unnecessary, and likely to cause confrontation. How do you know they haven't seen you already?

You dont know whether they have seen you or not. But they bloody well know that I am there.
Would rather get into a bout of verbals then get creamed.
i am just talking about a little tap on the side panel as I come up the inside not smashing the window.

Gavin

Agree with Lumen, tapping a car as you move alongside it really doesn't strike me as a very good idea. Firstly, there should be no need. Secondly, it distracts the driver and then finally as he says, you are inviting confrontation.

Lumen

bcmf wrote: »

i am just talking about a little tap on the side panel as I come up the inside not smashing the window.

If I heard a knock as a cyclist passed I'd assume they had wobbled into my car, and would probably stop to check for damage.

Nuts.

bcmf

Ah. I'm sorry.I wont do it again.

Jumpy

I saw some lad on a fixie at the Limerick car free day parade. He had spikes coming out the top of his hoods pointing at the sky. I thought it was a bit dangerous.

'68 Fastback

This "super hero" cyclist that magicly appears from out of nowhere is clearly of Klingon desent and merely utilising a cloaking device in order to surprise the unsuspecting driver. I suspect they might be deliberatly acting against federation guidlines.

adamski8

DirkVoodoo wrote: »

Name one superhero who would ride a bike?

You clearly havent heard of the BMX bandit.
I know the angel summoner shows him up abit though
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/thatmitchellandwebbsite/characters/angel_summoner.shtml

DirkVoodoo

adamski8 wrote: »

You clearly havent heard of the BMX bandit.
I know the angel summoner shows him up abit though
http://www.bbc.co.uk/comedy/thatmitchellandwebbsite/characters/angel_summoner.shtml

Haha, I actually have seen that sketch...silly me.

whatdoicare

Jumpy wrote: »

I dont cycle on cycle lanes unless they are part of the road. Its too dangerous to use them as you have to cross junctions where you are least priority, on the road you dont.
.

Oh I agree some lanes are just dangerous- but this particular lane is fabulous - I've cycled down it myself. The one on childers rd Limerick. It leads to safe crossings and onto an even better one on the Dublin road. There was absolutely no need for her to be on the road (and this particular road can get pretty tight at busy times leaving little room for passing cyclists)
Her bike isn't very well lit either and she was wearing very dark gear- the only reason I saw her was that I was stopped in traffic going the opposite way and my lights were on. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. Pure dangerous.


Also to the guy who taps cars to alert them- that is the most dangerous stupid thing you could ever do- someday you'll do that to a learner or elderly person- they'll slam on the breaks or swerve and it's game over for you! :eek: And nowadays you can't tell who learners are as most of them aren't putting up plates to avoid the two person in car law.

Jumpy

whatdoicare wrote: »

Oh I agree some lanes are just dangerous- but this particular lane is fabulous - I've cycled down it myself. The one on childers rd Limerick. It leads to safe crossings and onto an even better one on the Dublin road. There was absolutely no need for her to be on the road (and this particular road can get pretty tight at busy times leaving little room for passing cyclists)
Her bike isn't very well lit either and she was wearing very dark gear- the only reason I saw her was that I was stopped in traffic going the opposite way and my lights were on. I couldn't believe it when I saw it. Pure dangerous.


Also to the guy who taps cars to alert them- that is the most dangerous stupid thing you could ever do- someday you'll do that to a learner or elderly person- they'll slam on the breaks or swerve and it's game over for you! :eek: And nowadays you can't tell who learners are as most of them aren't putting up plates to avoid the two person in car law.

Have you tried that one on a road bike? The ups and downs on it require suspension or it breaks your balls.

bcmf

whatdoicare wrote: »

Also to the guy who taps cars to alert them- that is the most dangerous stupid thing you could ever do- someday you'll do that to a learner or elderly person- they'll slam on the breaks or swerve and it's game over for you! :eek: And nowadays you can't tell who learners are as most of them aren't putting up plates to avoid the two person in car law.

jaysus next yis will be having a go at me for not wearing a crash hat and having my mp3 player up REALLY LOUD while cycling.

Raam

bcmf wrote: »

jaysus next yis will be having a go at me for not wearing a crash hat and having my mp3 player up REALLY LOUD while cycling.

Not to mention the blindfold that you insist on wearing.

cosmic

Any word on the woman who got hit since?

daymobrew

cosmic wrote: »

Any word on the woman who got hit since?

I doubt we'll hear anything. I really wish there was a way to find out the results of accident investigations - so what we could all learn from them. Right now we have no idea who or what was at fault.

cosmic

daymobrew wrote: »

I doubt we'll hear anything. I really wish there was a way to find out the results of accident investigations - so what we could all learn from them. Right now we have no idea who or what was at fault.

True.

I was wondering if she was ok but we would have heard if there was bad news.

bcmf

Raam wrote: »

Not to mention the blindfold that you insist on wearing.

didnt think that needed mentioning tbh

RedPlanet

daymobrew wrote: »

I doubt we'll hear anything. I really wish there was a way to find out the results of accident investigations - so what we could all learn from them. Right now we have no idea who or what was at fault.

Yeah it's the same with anything. When motorists die we never find out if alcohol was involved, speeding, dangerous driving.. etc.
It's like it's some big secret the general public has no business knowing.