Cafe en Seine, The George, etc go into examinership

Euro_Kraut

Some of Dublin's best known 'superpubs' are going into examinership.

The bars which are part of the Capital Group are: Café en Seine, The George, Howl at the Moon and Zanzibar

From this article:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0919/1224254866651.html?via=mr

THE CAPITAL Bars chain of pubs and hotels, which is owned and run by the O’Dwyer brothers Liam and Des, has become the latest highprofile hospitality group to feel the effects of the credit crunch.

The O’Dwyers yesterday moved to have an interim examiner appointed by the High Court to the companies operating four of its biggest pubs – Café en Seine, The George, Howl at the Moon and Zanzibar.

This gives them protection from creditors for up to 100 days. In their Celtic Tiger heyday, the O’Dwyers became synonymous with the superpub phenomenon and their pubs were among the biggest and best known in Dublin. But sales have fallen by about 20 per cent this year.

They also secured the appointment of a provisional liquidator for the Trinity Capital Hotel on Pearse Street; the Break for the Border pub and Grafton Capital Hotel near St Stephen’s Green and the Dragon bar on South Great Georges Street.

The O’Dwyers are seeking protection from AIB, which is owed €26 million and is believed to have recently threatened to withdraw its facilities. It is understood that the brothers offered to underwrite the cash requirements of the business for a two-year period, but this was not accepted by the bank.

As landlords for most of the properties, the O’Dwyers are also owed a substantial sum, believed to be in excess of €5 million.

A sign of the times. These places were the epiphany of Celtic Tiger Dublin.

delricyo

I wouldnt say they "deserve" this. But a lot of those pubs priced themselves out of business. They were probably too slow to react and drop their prices to drum up business, imo

phasers

Zanzibar is a kip

Nolanger

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

A sign of the times. These places were the epiphany of Celtic Tiger Dublin.

Well, good riddance then!

MementoMori

phasers wrote: »

Zanzibar is a kip

Only open weekend evenings the last while the odd week night excepted.

Cant see it making that much operating those sort of hours.

Would be no great loss if it closed.

jdivision

They were very silly not to react to market conditions

xia

jdivision wrote: »

They were very silly not to react to market conditions

Looks like this confirms your statement. I mean, they are not in trouble since Wednesday, right? And on Tuesday they were still looking for staff for a new Venue opening in October?? Looks like they are (were) really "optimistic".:rolleyes:

Euro_Kraut

Just to be clear examinership does not mean they will close overnight. Basically he courts has appointed a person who will determine if their debt can be restructured and the company saved.

This link provides some info on the process: http://www.examinership.ie/examinership.htm#what

Were the company to wind the down the next stage would be receivership and finally liquidation.

So while all of these bars may not close, they are in huge difficulty and it is likely that some if not all of these places will have to wind down.

It would be very sad to see worker losing their jobs. Its not surprising though, these bars are caught in time warp. It is not 2006 anymore.

opinion guy

wait wait wait.
wasn't this nama stuff set up so the banks would be giving more leeway to folks like the o'dwyers ? zanzibar may be in the doldrums but i was in cafe en seine last week and it was jammers. seems audacious that the banks are foreclosing on a potentially salvagable business days after they are gifted 7 billion by the goverment

jdivision

xia wrote: »

Looks like this confirms your statement. I mean, they are not in trouble since Wednesday, right? And on Tuesday they were still looking for staff for a new Venue opening in October?? Looks like they are (were) really "optimistic".:rolleyes:

They were still paying rent, I know cos I heard they were going but the landlord told me Tuesday it was still being paid. Ron Blacks was charging e4 a pint, they were charging nearly e7. That's called stupidity.

Rb

Nolanger wrote: »

Well, good riddance then!

Grow up and cop on.

hayser

That's a pity. I really like Cafe en Seine.

emeraldstar

hayser wrote: »

That's a pity. I really like Cafe en Seine.

Me too.

NextSteps

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

A sign of the times. These places were the epiphany of Celtic Tiger Dublin.

Epitome?

Dyr

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

Euro_Kraut

UB wrote: »

Epitome?

No! I stand by what I said. They were 'a Christian holiday on January 6 celebrating the visit of the Magi to the infant Jesus' of the Celtic Tiger.

segadreamcast

Aren't Ron Blacks (Thomas Reid group) also in examinership?

Hardly the best example to use!

Relevant

opinion guy wrote: »

wait wait wait.
wasn't this nama stuff set up so the banks would be giving more leeway to folks like the o'dwyers ? zanzibar may be in the doldrums but i was in cafe en seine last week and it was jammers. seems audacious that the banks are foreclosing on a potentially salvagable business days after they are gifted 7 billion by the goverment

1. The examinership process is not initiated by the banks, it is initiated by the owners.

2. Just because the place is packed doesnt mean it is making money/servicing its finance costs

3. NAMA will potentially mean these businesses will keep operating but it isnt going to do so to the detriment of the bank/nama.

Relevant

NoelRock wrote: »

Aren't Ron Blacks (Thomas Reid group) also in examinership?

Hardly the best example to use!

Thomas Read group is in receivership, ie banks have called their debt and appointed a receiver to realise their security. ie the bank has appointed someone to go run the group on their behalf, the receiver will cut costs, close and sell loss making parts of the businesses and run the profit making parts on behalf of the bank.

lightening

Bambi wrote: »

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

Yoohooo!

john-joe

Bambi wrote: »

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

fairy:D good

Meeja Ireland

Bambi wrote: »

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

Only if Cafe En Seine is Left Bankrupt.

Larianne

jdivision wrote: »

They were very silly not to react to market conditions

Well I dunno about this as I was in Krystal last night (first and last time I might add!) and it was €15 in and then for 1 vodka and coke and 1 bacardi and soda it cost me €16.70!! :eek: I went for birthday drinks, it wouldn't be somewhere I'd usually go but the place was absolutely packed full of people, who seemed not to mind to pay those ridiculous prices!!

I think it's also to do with how places are run in general, marketing and just some places aren't cool to go to anymore.

ConsiderThis

Larianne wrote: »

Well I dunno about this as I was in Krystal last night (first and last time I might add!) and it was €15 in and then for 1 vodka and coke and 1 bacardi and soda it cost me €16.70!! :eek: I went for birthday drinks, it wouldn't be somewhere I'd usually go but the place was absolutely packed full of people, who seemed not to mind to pay those ridiculous prices!!

I think it's also to do with how places are run in general, marketing and just some places aren't cool to go to anymore.

By my reckoning it cost two of you €46.70 for one drink each, at €15 each in and €16.70 for two drinks. The amazing thing is you paid it!

Larianne

ConsiderThis wrote: »

By my reckoning it cost two of you €46.70 for one drink each, at €15 each in and €16.70 for two drinks. The amazing thing is you paid it!

We didn't know we had to pay till we got there and then as it was for a birthday party we kinda had to. Then they don't give you the receipt till the drinks are poured so it very hard to say "eh, no thanks!".

But defo won't be going back there. (Imagine I got two vodkas and cokes in Malta for €3.20 two weeks ago!!).

jdivision

Larianne wrote: »

Well I dunno about this as I was in Krystal last night (first and last time I might add!) and it was €15 in and then for 1 vodka and coke and 1 bacardi and soda it cost me €16.70!! :eek: I went for birthday drinks, it wouldn't be somewhere I'd usually go but the place was absolutely packed full of people, who seemed not to mind to pay those ridiculous prices!!

I think it's also to do with how places are run in general, marketing and just some places aren't cool to go to anymore.

It's likely it was packed with people up for the match, by all accounts it's dying on it's arse these days normally.

Chucky the tree

Most of the places would still do well on friday and saturday night but now places are just dead during the week because people can no longer afford pints after work on a wednesday or thursday.

Ste.phen

Chucky the tree wrote: »

people can no longer afford pints after work on a wednesday or thursday.

FYP.

Degsy

jdivision wrote: »

It's likely it was packed with people up for the match, by all accounts it's dying on it's arse these days normally.

Glad to hear its on its arse..there's no excuse in the world for those sort of prices.

arybvtcw0eolkf

Degsy wrote: »

Glad to hear its on its arse..there's no excuse in the world for those sort of prices.

Degsy, I've no time for the profiteering done by these club owners, however I totally disagree with anyone who expresses any kind of job at this news without looking at the wider picture.

.

BendiBus

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

Only if Cafe En Seine is Left Bankrupt.

Whoosh!!!

[Jackass]

There's a pub in town that is making a profit selling ALL drinks for €2 on a Wednesday night, no door charge, and includes a jager bomb as one drink (can of red bull + jager shot = €2). They also do ALL pints for €3 on Thursday nights.

I was once charged €6.25 for a pint in Dublin city.....I was also once charged €8 for a shot. I hope they fu*king rot, the lot of them, thieving scum, and so greedy, it baffles the mind to know how little they can charge and make a profit versus how much they were charging, how on earth they are closing down...apperantly not just greddy fu*ks, but stupid fu*ks also if they can't keep that kind of operation a float as soon as they can't get away with extorsion.

Plus there's no such thing as loylaty in any of these pubs, I know of two such pubs a few years ago me and a dozen other friends used to frequent 2 - 3 times every week and party it up (we were complete p!ssheads, toned it down now and drink in houses more than anything before going out and buying one or two drinks only), but the bars were never gratefull for that kind of business at the time and never did anything to thank or reward such loyalty so I've no problem seeing them go under.

Oh and even longer ago, I worked in a very well know bar / night club in temple bar that use cheap vodka / spirtis etc. in "brand name" bottles and also water the pints down to sh*t...i.e. there's how many pints in a keg? 100 or something? Well, these kegs were streching to maybe an extra 3rd, so 133 pints x €5.50 on average = €731.50 value per keg......and the price of a keg? I can rent one for €200, but imagine a pub and whole sale, probably knock a 3rd off that, so they'd pay say, €130, but probably WAYYYY less, so the mark up is 550% profit per Keg....fu*king outrageous. Good luck to them, and those figures and VERY generous, it's probably WAY more and that's on pints alone....when you go into cocktails or even shots, it's more like 1000% profit....tell me that's not extorsion! I think the industry should be regulated and price caps, say €3.50 max that can be charged for a pint.

Relevant

[Jackass] wrote: »

There's a pub in town that is making a profit selling ALL drinks for €2 on a Wednesday night, no door charge, and includes a jager bomb as one drink (can of red bull + jager shot = €2). They also do ALL pints for €3 on Thursday nights.

The same pub charges upwards of €6 per pint every other night of the week

skelliser

LOL! Reading this thread, pint of guiness in galway is on avarage 3.80-4.00 euro.
Anytime i go drinking in dublin i leave it as let as possible to head into town, lush cans at home/houseparty, ye guys are paying thru yer teeth!
and the thing is ye love it, all these places are wedged when im up there. vote with yer feet ffs!

lightening

skelliser wrote: »

LOL! Reading this thread .....blah..... vote with yer feet ffs!

I think that's what happened. People voted with their feet. And, Galway is expensive, pints are dear in the city.

BraziliaNZ

[Jackass] wrote: »

and also water the pints down to sh*t...

sorry but how exactly did they water down pints? I never believed this myth

skelliser

lightening wrote: »

I think that's what happened. People voted with their feet. And, Galway is expensive, pints are dear in the city.

sorry i meant guiness in the city is 3.80-4.00 euro, its probably cheaper down the county!

lightening

skelliser wrote: »

sorry i meant guiness in the city is 3.80-4.00 euro, its probably cheaper down the county!

I find Galway city pints just as expensive as Dublin, the food isn't great and the traffic is much worse!

BraziliaNZ

skelliser wrote: »

sorry i meant guiness in the city is 3.80-4.00 euro, its probably cheaper down the county!

was in Clifden a few years ago and the 2 or 3 restaurants they had were about 1/3 more expensive than similar fare in Dublin

eightyfish

I used to work for Capital Bars in a club they owned. When the club was sold, they asked us to work one final night for the new owners as a favour, and our manager told us our jobs would be moved to another venue. They asked us all in for a meeting the following week, and fired everybody. They said they couldn't offer us alternative positions even though many of their bars were hiring. This was 4 years ago, well before the recession. (Our manager was not to blame, he was misinformed)

F*ck Capital Bars.

(Though I feel sorry for a few bartenders I know still working for them).

lightening

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

was in Clifden a few years ago and the 2 or 3 restaurants they had were about 1/3 more expensive than similar fare in Dublin

Not as much competition I guess.

JimiTime

Larianne wrote: »

Well I dunno about this as I was in Krystal last night (first and last time I might add!) and it was €15 in and then for 1 vodka and coke and 1 bacardi and soda it cost me €16.70!! :eek: I went for birthday drinks, it wouldn't be somewhere I'd usually go but the place was absolutely packed full of people, who seemed not to mind to pay those ridiculous prices!!

I think it's also to do with how places are run in general, marketing and just some places aren't cool to go to anymore.

I think this is apt for the customers of Krystal and such places::)

segadreamcast

Relevant wrote: »

Thomas Read group is in receivership, ie banks have called their debt and appointed a receiver to realise their security. ie the bank has appointed someone to go run the group on their behalf, the receiver will cut costs, close and sell loss making parts of the businesses and run the profit making parts on behalf of the bank.

Yes, apologies; a minor slip, but the broad principle still stands - you can hardly use Ron Blacks as an example of a viable, thriving business with sensible policies...

segadreamcast

lightening wrote: »

I find Galway city pints just as expensive as Dublin, the food isn't great and the traffic is much worse!

Kennedy's on Eyre Square... Guinness = 3.40 a pint as of last month.

lightening

NoelRock wrote: »

Kennedy's on Eyre Square... Guinness = 3.40 a pint as of last month.

That is good value, great to see the Galway pubs coming down too. There is a really good thread on cheap pints in Dublin... Getting out of Dublin for the weekend used to be cheap, certainly not the case now!

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055500568&highlight=pints

ConsiderThis

What has undermined the Capital bars group is their debt - €120 million to one bank and €26 million to another. Whether they charge €5 or €6 for a pint isn't going to repay that. They gambled on buying property and have mortgages of €120 million on 5 or 6 properties around town, which are probably worth a fraction of that.

Bluetonic

Capital battle

Sunday, September 27, 2009 By Nicola Cooke and Ian Kehoe
Liam and Des O’Dwyer were the undisputed pioneers of the Dublin superpub, opening exotic and expansive clubs and pubs in the capital city long before it was popular.

However, as the old adage goes, pioneers get shot and settlers make money.

Ten days ago, the O’Dwyer brothers went before the High Court and acknowledged that Capital Bars, their sprawling empire of Dublin pubs, clubs and hotels, was effectively insolvent.

An examiner was appointed by the court to four superpubs that the brothers believed could be restructured and salvaged. A liquidator, however, took control of two hotels and one superpub-cum-nightclub that could not be rescued.

More than 20 years after taking over the family business, it appeared that the O’Dwyer brothers, doyens of the pub trade, had finally called time on their business. Or had they? Just aweek after their High Court plea, it seems that the two publicans have not pulled their last pint just yet.

Already, the O’Dwyers are back running their two hotels, the Trinity Capital and the Grafton Capital, as well as the Dragon, a pub/nightclub in the city centre.

The operating companies behind the three companies went into liquidation, and forfeited their leases. However, the two brothers actually own the properties personally, and have now set up a new operating structure to lease the premises.

It might seem like sharp practice, but their move is perfectly legal. The brothers owned the properties personally, and kept that ownership well outside the Capital Bars group structure - in essence, they acted as both landlord and tenant. When the three companies went bust, the lease reverted to the landlord (the O’Dwyers), who could reassign it to another tenant (a new O’Dwyer company). The brothers also agreed a deal with the liquidator, accountant Jim Stafford, to buy the goodwill, stock and contents of the premises.

While all this was going on, the brothers have opened negotiations with Kieran Wallace, the KPMG accountant who was installed as examiner to the four other properties in the group - Cafe en Seine, Zanzibar, Howl at the Moon and the George.

Wallace, head of insolvency with KPMG, has 100 days to rescue the pubs. A key aspect of this will be restructuring the group’s debts and reducing rents. However, as the brothers own much of the property interests, it appears likely that he could cut a deal with them.

Their status as landlords might just be enough to keep them in control of their business, although it was that fact that caused much of the trouble in the first place.

According to court documents, AIB, the group’s main banker, indicated that its continued support was predicated on the group’s ability to renegotiate downwards annual rents on certain group properties by €1.6 million.

‘‘The bank is not prepared to make facilities available to the Marino Group [a main holding company with the Capital Bars group] where such facilities are being used in effect to subsidise certain loss-making companies paying rents over and beyond the value of market rents,” according to a letter from AIB, dated September 2.

In effect, AIB wanted the O’Dwyers to reduce the amount of rent they were receiving from their own companies. The brothers refused on the basis that they owed Anglo Irish Bank more than €100 million in relation to the purchase of the properties, and that money had to be repaid.

‘‘The landlords have stated that they would be in breach of their obligations to their bankers if they agreed to a permanent reduction in rent,” according to court documents. Faced with losing their facilities from AIB, who are owed €25 million, the brothers made their way to the Four Courts last Friday.

Regardless of the AIB issue, Capital Bars has been struggling for some time.

Since taking the company off the stock market through a heated MBO in 2002,the company has disposed of or closed eight underperforming outlets. One outlet, the Dandelion, cost the group some €10 million in fit-out and litigation costs, but was sold for just €1 million.

Instead, the brothers have concentrated on hotels - the Trinity Capital now has 267 beds, while the Grafton Capital has 80. The group recently secured planning permission for a proposed hotel and bus interchange at Abbey Street on Dublin 1, and for further rooms on the site of Zanzibar.

Its most recent accounts show that the group recorded a pre-tax loss of €15.9 million from a turnover of €39.9 million in 2008, and things have not got much better since then. According to an independent accountants’ report filed with the court in recent days, sales will fall by an estimated 12 per cent this year.

‘‘This decrease has been attributed mainly to decreasing consumer confidence in the wake of a worsening economic environment, together with a combination of oversupply and decreasing demand with regards to hotel trade,” said the report.

As part of an ongoing review, AIB commissioned a professional valuation of the leasehold interests of the seven operating companies in June. It valued the leasehold interest (the brothers own the freehold separately) at €15.5 million.

‘‘Cashflow from operations has fallen significantly in the face of economic downturn, and the company can no longer generate sufficient cashflow/Ebitda [earnings before interest, taxation, depreciation and amortisation] to fund its commitment to repay/finance its current level of debt,” the report states.

The examiner, Wallace, will now seek to source new capital and restructure bank debt. The kingmakers in the process, however, will be the O’Dwyers, and it is likely they will retain their crown.

Losing their business would be abhorrent for them, as the pub trade courses through their veins. Their father Joe opened a pub on Dublin’s Mount Street in the early 1960s.Most of their extended family, including cousins and uncles, have owned and operated bars throughout Dublin and Tipperary, where the O’Dwyer family originally come from.

Liam and Des joined the family business in the late 1980s, taking over their father’s Mount Street operation. Shortly after getting the family business, they spent millions on a major expansion and renovation of the property, extending the bar and decorating it with a lavish fauxVictorian interior.

The Mount Street premises set the template for their entire business empire. While most pubs in the capital were dark and basic, the O’Dwyers’ premises were flamboyant, colourful and interesting.

While most hostelries were small, they championed large, expansive, expensive superpubs. Liam O’Dwyer set out his philosophy in a 2001 interview with The Sunday Business Post: ‘‘Dublin city centre is going leisure. It will be like London, Paris and New York soon, with primarily hospitality businesses, such as pubs and nightclubs in the city centre. This is what the increasingly young pub market wants - we are only meeting demand.”

All of their bars have a signature look. Zanzibar has a distinctly north African theme, while Cafe en Seine is styled in a Parisian decor. Liam O’Dwyer, the older of the pair, is passionate about the design of his bars and personally chose the fit-out for each of them.

The brothers used the Mount Street operation (now trading as Howl at the Moon) as a springboard for major expansion. In 1991, Liamand Des paid £1.7 million for Bartley Dunne’s bar on Stephen Street in Dublin, and redeveloped it into the Break For The Border pub and nightclub, and Grafton Capital hotel.

In 1993, they bought Sinnotts and what was Major Tom’s - both underneath the St Stephen’s Green shopping centre - and converted them into late-night superpubs.

Both were sold again a decade later. In addition to pioneering pubs, they were also pioneers in the licensing trade.

They transferred the licence from Bartley Dunne’s to separate premises - one of the first times this had been done in Ireland.

That pub currently trades as Cafe en Seine, one of the largest pubs in the country.

In the late 1990s, they established Zanzibar - a huge late-night bar on Dublin’s Ormond Quay. It proved a major success and drew large crowds during the boom, when it was favoured by young professionals awash with cash.

Around this time, they also developed the Trinity Capital hotel, Café Cairo bar and Fireworks club on Pearse Street. The success did not go unnoticed, and the group quickly attracted suitors.

In 1999, Break for the Border, a British leisure group, paid stg£17.33 million for their then six Dublin superpubs and two restaurants.

The deal involved the brothers taking a 46 per cent stake in the new company, Capital Bars, which was floated on the stock market. In 2002, the company was delisted after Liam and Des took it private - but not without a fight. Shipping entrepreneur Austin Conboy, a minority shareholder, began buying up shares and almost thwarted the deal.

Almost, but not quite - and the O’Dwyers regained control of their business.

While the men were candid when their group was floated on the market, they have gone to ground since then, and have barely said a word in public. ‘‘They don’t need to talk any more - they run a private business,” said once source.

Both men live in Ballsbridge with their wives and families, both play golf and are interested in current affairs and travel. One person, who has worked with the O’Dwyer brothers for the last two decades, said they are ‘‘very proud men’’ and that ‘‘what happened last week’’ was ‘‘deeply embarrassing for them’’.

They have never been afraid to play hardball. In May, a property vehicle they control issued a High Court petition to shut down Danninger, a building and contracting operating company controlled by developer Liam Carroll.

The move came before Carroll’s various insolvency proceedings, and shows that the O’Dwyers were willing to hold their ground.

Deepdrill Developments, owned by the pair, attempted to liquidate Danninger, in an effort to recover money that it claims it was owed. The petition was dropped after Carroll stumped up.

‘‘They are good businessmen, and they won’t be pushed over,” according to one well-placed observer. They have also showed their mettle in this latest court manoeuvre, appointing liquidators and examiners when confronted by AIB.

The next 100 days will tell if the brothers have played their hand right. All things going well, they could emerge with the businesses intact and an improved balance. If not, they could lose chunks of their empire. Game on.

Source

FruitLover

hayser wrote: »

That's a pity. I really like Cafe en Seine.

emeraldstar wrote: »

Me too.

Wow, P.T. Barnum was right...