Cafe en Seine, The George, etc go into examinership

Euro_Kraut · 19-09-2009 7:18pm #1

Some of Dublin's best known 'superpubs' are going into examinership.

The bars which are part of the Capital Group are: Café en Seine, The George, Howl at the Moon and Zanzibar

From this article:http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/frontpage/2009/0919/1224254866651.html?via=mr

THE CAPITAL Bars chain of pubs and hotels, which is owned and run by the O’Dwyer brothers Liam and Des, has become the latest highprofile hospitality group to feel the effects of the credit crunch.

The O’Dwyers yesterday moved to have an interim examiner appointed by the High Court to the companies operating four of its biggest pubs – Café en Seine, The George, Howl at the Moon and Zanzibar.

This gives them protection from creditors for up to 100 days. In their Celtic Tiger heyday, the O’Dwyers became synonymous with the superpub phenomenon and their pubs were among the biggest and best known in Dublin. But sales have fallen by about 20 per cent this year.

They also secured the appointment of a provisional liquidator for the Trinity Capital Hotel on Pearse Street; the Break for the Border pub and Grafton Capital Hotel near St Stephen’s Green and the Dragon bar on South Great Georges Street.

The O’Dwyers are seeking protection from AIB, which is owed €26 million and is believed to have recently threatened to withdraw its facilities. It is understood that the brothers offered to underwrite the cash requirements of the business for a two-year period, but this was not accepted by the bank.

As landlords for most of the properties, the O’Dwyers are also owed a substantial sum, believed to be in excess of €5 million.

A sign of the times. These places were the epiphany of Celtic Tiger Dublin.

delricyo · 19-09-2009 7:22pm

I wouldnt say they "deserve" this. But a lot of those pubs priced themselves out of business. They were probably too slow to react and drop their prices to drum up business, imo

phasers · 19-09-2009 7:23pm

Zanzibar is a kip

Nolanger · 19-09-2009 7:42pm

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

A sign of the times. These places were the epiphany of Celtic Tiger Dublin.

Well, good riddance then!

MementoMori · 19-09-2009 8:17pm

phasers wrote: »

Zanzibar is a kip

Only open weekend evenings the last while the odd week night excepted.

Cant see it making that much operating those sort of hours.

Would be no great loss if it closed.

jdivision · 19-09-2009 8:18pm

They were very silly not to react to market conditions

xia · 19-09-2009 9:51pm

jdivision wrote: »

They were very silly not to react to market conditions

Looks like this confirms your statement. I mean, they are not in trouble since Wednesday, right? And on Tuesday they were still looking for staff for a new Venue opening in October?? Looks like they are (were) really "optimistic".:rolleyes:

Euro_Kraut · 20-09-2009 1:44am

Just to be clear examinership does not mean they will close overnight. Basically he courts has appointed a person who will determine if their debt can be restructured and the company saved.

This link provides some info on the process: http://www.examinership.ie/examinership.htm#what

Were the company to wind the down the next stage would be receivership and finally liquidation.

So while all of these bars may not close, they are in huge difficulty and it is likely that some if not all of these places will have to wind down.

It would be very sad to see worker losing their jobs. Its not surprising though, these bars are caught in time warp. It is not 2006 anymore.

opinion guy · 20-09-2009 1:49am

wait wait wait.
wasn't this nama stuff set up so the banks would be giving more leeway to folks like the o'dwyers ? zanzibar may be in the doldrums but i was in cafe en seine last week and it was jammers. seems audacious that the banks are foreclosing on a potentially salvagable business days after they are gifted 7 billion by the goverment

jdivision · 20-09-2009 2:25am

xia wrote: »

Looks like this confirms your statement. I mean, they are not in trouble since Wednesday, right? And on Tuesday they were still looking for staff for a new Venue opening in October?? Looks like they are (were) really "optimistic".:rolleyes:

They were still paying rent, I know cos I heard they were going but the landlord told me Tuesday it was still being paid. Ron Blacks was charging e4 a pint, they were charging nearly e7. That's called stupidity.

Rb · 20-09-2009 11:00am

Nolanger wrote: »

Well, good riddance then!

Grow up and cop on.

hayser · 20-09-2009 12:24pm

That's a pity. I really like Cafe en Seine.

emeraldstar · 20-09-2009 3:34pm

hayser wrote: »

That's a pity. I really like Cafe en Seine.

Me too.

NextSteps · 20-09-2009 3:53pm

Euro_Kraut wrote: »

A sign of the times. These places were the epiphany of Celtic Tiger Dublin.

Epitome?

Dyr · 20-09-2009 4:12pm

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

Euro_Kraut · 20-09-2009 4:16pm

UB wrote: »

Epitome?

No! I stand by what I said. They were 'a Christian holiday on January 6 celebrating the visit of the Magi to the infant Jesus' of the Celtic Tiger.

segadreamcast · 20-09-2009 4:20pm

Aren't Ron Blacks (Thomas Reid group) also in examinership?

Hardly the best example to use!

Relevant · 20-09-2009 4:21pm

opinion guy wrote: »

wait wait wait.
wasn't this nama stuff set up so the banks would be giving more leeway to folks like the o'dwyers ? zanzibar may be in the doldrums but i was in cafe en seine last week and it was jammers. seems audacious that the banks are foreclosing on a potentially salvagable business days after they are gifted 7 billion by the goverment

1. The examinership process is not initiated by the banks, it is initiated by the owners.

2. Just because the place is packed doesnt mean it is making money/servicing its finance costs

3. NAMA will potentially mean these businesses will keep operating but it isnt going to do so to the detriment of the bank/nama.

Relevant · 20-09-2009 4:22pm

NoelRock wrote: »

Aren't Ron Blacks (Thomas Reid group) also in examinership?

Hardly the best example to use!

Thomas Read group is in receivership, ie banks have called their debt and appointed a receiver to realise their security. ie the bank has appointed someone to go run the group on their behalf, the receiver will cut costs, close and sell loss making parts of the businesses and run the profit making parts on behalf of the bank.

lightening · 20-09-2009 4:24pm

Bambi wrote: »

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

Yoohooo!

john-joe · 20-09-2009 4:25pm

Bambi wrote: »

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

fairy:D good

Meeja Ireland · 20-09-2009 4:28pm

Bambi wrote: »

Would The George have to go into fairy liquidation?

Only if Cafe En Seine is Left Bankrupt.

Larianne · 20-09-2009 4:33pm

jdivision wrote: »

They were very silly not to react to market conditions

Well I dunno about this as I was in Krystal last night (first and last time I might add!) and it was €15 in and then for 1 vodka and coke and 1 bacardi and soda it cost me €16.70!! :eek: I went for birthday drinks, it wouldn't be somewhere I'd usually go but the place was absolutely packed full of people, who seemed not to mind to pay those ridiculous prices!!

I think it's also to do with how places are run in general, marketing and just some places aren't cool to go to anymore.

ConsiderThis · 20-09-2009 8:55pm

Larianne wrote: »

Well I dunno about this as I was in Krystal last night (first and last time I might add!) and it was €15 in and then for 1 vodka and coke and 1 bacardi and soda it cost me €16.70!! :eek: I went for birthday drinks, it wouldn't be somewhere I'd usually go but the place was absolutely packed full of people, who seemed not to mind to pay those ridiculous prices!!

I think it's also to do with how places are run in general, marketing and just some places aren't cool to go to anymore.

By my reckoning it cost two of you €46.70 for one drink each, at €15 each in and €16.70 for two drinks. The amazing thing is you paid it!

Larianne · 20-09-2009 9:03pm

ConsiderThis wrote: »

By my reckoning it cost two of you €46.70 for one drink each, at €15 each in and €16.70 for two drinks. The amazing thing is you paid it!

We didn't know we had to pay till we got there and then as it was for a birthday party we kinda had to. Then they don't give you the receipt till the drinks are poured so it very hard to say "eh, no thanks!".

But defo won't be going back there. (Imagine I got two vodkas and cokes in Malta for €3.20 two weeks ago!!).

jdivision · 21-09-2009 12:13am

Larianne wrote: »

Well I dunno about this as I was in Krystal last night (first and last time I might add!) and it was €15 in and then for 1 vodka and coke and 1 bacardi and soda it cost me €16.70!! :eek: I went for birthday drinks, it wouldn't be somewhere I'd usually go but the place was absolutely packed full of people, who seemed not to mind to pay those ridiculous prices!!

I think it's also to do with how places are run in general, marketing and just some places aren't cool to go to anymore.

It's likely it was packed with people up for the match, by all accounts it's dying on it's arse these days normally.

Chucky the tree · 21-09-2009 2:18am

Most of the places would still do well on friday and saturday night but now places are just dead during the week because people can no longer afford pints after work on a wednesday or thursday.

Ste.phen · 21-09-2009 8:44am

Chucky the tree wrote: »

people can no longer afford pints after work on a wednesday or thursday.

FYP.

Degsy · 21-09-2009 11:47am

jdivision wrote: »

It's likely it was packed with people up for the match, by all accounts it's dying on it's arse these days normally.

Glad to hear its on its arse..there's no excuse in the world for those sort of prices.

arybvtcw0eolkf · 21-09-2009 12:44pm

Degsy wrote: »

Glad to hear its on its arse..there's no excuse in the world for those sort of prices.

Degsy, I've no time for the profiteering done by these club owners, however I totally disagree with anyone who expresses any kind of job at this news without looking at the wider picture.

.

BendiBus · 21-09-2009 1:36pm

Meeja Ireland wrote: »

Only if Cafe En Seine is Left Bankrupt.

Whoosh!!!

Cafe en Seine, The George, etc go into examinership

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