N7 - Newlands Cross upgrade

Sponge Bob

In principle while I concede Newlands cross needs doing first the next most important road is Galway - Cork ( all of it) and not these motorway widening schemes they keep slithering out unannounced in Dublin to waste the roads budget with.

Slow roads don't kill and maim people but bad ones certainly do.

The proposed three laning around Shankill in south Dublin would the fourth major road scheme on that stretch in more or less 20 years which is a complete waste of public money

At least the Galway - Cork jobs will last a lot longer than that because they are getting them right first time.

spacetweek

Sponge Bob wrote: »

The proposed three laning around Shankill in south Dublin would the fourth major road scheme on that stretch in more or less 20 years which is a complete waste of public money

Absolute rubbish. Both "safety improvement" (due to saved lives) and "capacity enhancement" (increased economic growth) are perfectly good reasons to invest in a road scheme.

Wild Bill

luohaoran wrote: »

Thats more like it!

You were the one who said your opinion did not correspond to your logic, not me.

Eh...no. I never did. Let me reprise. You responded to this quote from me:

"I am seriously unconvinced by folk who'd rate work on the M17/18/20 ahead of this - traffic volumes should dictate priorities when money is tight; not regional pleading."

You stated, and you still claim, that because my prescription will lead to only building roads around Dublin (in your view) that my statement above is illogical.

No it was not! "traffic volumes should dictate priorities when money is tight; not regional pleading" is a point of view.

Logic isn't defined by whether some pov results in roads being built around Dublin or not!

luohaoran wrote: »

I'm not sure we're working from the same definition of the word logic.

That's for sure; I tend to go with the dictionary definition.

luohaoran wrote: »

To me, logically speaking, if you are going to base your road building on traffic counts, then the overwhelming majority of your road building will be where traffic counts are highest.

100% correct.

luohaoran wrote: »

Are you suggesting that does not mean near Dublin?

Nope. I made no suggestion where they might be built (bar NX) until further along in the exchange when I said in passing that there may be areas outside Dublin that qualify - but I don't know and don't care really.

luohaoran wrote: »

My argument is based largely on the idea that you should build your roads where you want development to take place. Which unless I've completely misunderstood , you disagree with.

No, I agree. But I'd like development to be concentrated in Dublin. And roads to be built in the first instance where the need already exists.

luohaoran wrote: »

Just don't see how you can describe a) and b) above, as "non-suquitor". I would have went for ergo.

Ergo eh? I prefer to call a spade a spade.

luohaoran wrote: »

You're not going to get high traffic counts in the West like you will around Dublin, ergo, using your opinion/logic, the West will loose out to Dublin.

Correct.

luohaoran wrote: »

And in fact, always has. Have you ever driven between the second and third largest conurbations in the Republic? It's kinda shocking.
Despite the so-called balanced approach, and some Western Corridor development, we remain very poorly connected in the West. The only place we can get to easily, is... wait for it... Dublin.

Reality rarely shocks me.

luohaoran wrote: »

I'm not saying that the interurbans shouldn't have been the first to be built. But I would say, for the benefit of the entire country, the Atlantic Corridor should take precedence. With some sensible weighting against the likely higher traffic counts near Dublin.

I disagree. :cool:

robert muldoon

Was on to NRA today about the award of contract for this project and N11.
They informed me that the contract will not be awarded untill April, so that puts the whole completion date back well into 2012, There was no reason given for delay

dubhthach

robert muldoon wrote: »

Was on to NRA today about the award of contract for this project and N11.
They informed me that the contract will not be awarded untill April, so that puts the whole completion date back well into 2012, There was no reason given for delay

With an election likely to happen in March/early april it's no wonder no decision is been made. I assume the same will probably have regarding the N17/N18 as well :rolleyes:

Chris_5339762

The M17/18 may be slightly less likely to go ahead with another party in charge, but I reckon even if the Greens were in charge on their own they'd do Newlands and the M11 gap.

busman

Tremelo wrote: »

When was the last time someone was killed or maimed at Newlands Cross? It is not and never was solely about AADTs Bill.

Last time someone Killed : 2007?

The RSA have a map that shows collisions for 2006-8

mk6705

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

The M17/18 may be slightly less likely to go ahead with another party in charge, but I reckon even if the Greens were in charge on their own they'd do Newlands and the M11 gap.

If the Greens were in charge they'd stop all road building and give us all bicycles instead. Hopefully, they'll be destroyed completely in the next election. Even for environmental causes, they do little.

Setanta_og

luohaoran wrote: »

Thats more like it!

"Despite the so-called balanced approach, and some Western Corridor development, we remain very poorly connected in the West. The only place we can get to easily, is... wait for it... Dublin."

"I'm not saying that the interurbans shouldn't have been the first to be built. But I would say, for the benefit of the entire country, the Atlantic Corridor should take precedence. With some sensible weighting against the likely higher traffic counts near Dublin."

What type of cockology is this.........? Enda hardly has his legs under the table and you’re away with your begging bowl mentality of political patronism.

Do you not see that this type of lunacy has established a form of politics on the island that has held us in a grip of inertia since independence.
Resulting in a gombean system that allowed the continuous and ongoing election of cute whures to DE. People of limited ability vision or enterprise except for a cute awareness that by indulging the likes of you and yours with your parochial self-serving demands meant that he/she can continue living the life, surrounded by the best that money (TAX payer’s money) can buy in the great con job on Kildare Street.

After all the shananagings and revelation we have witnessed on the island over the last two years any chance of real political change will never occur if people with your attitude continue to use and expect politics to cater for your exclusive demands.

I would like to know what are the stats on passenger usage of the Claremorris - Limerick Rail corridor which was demanded by a similar lobby which you seem to epitomise. This project represents all that is wrong with our present political decision making process allowing such gross mismanagement of exchequer funds.

If we are ever to rise again as any sort of an economic force then change to the political system is needed and fast this will certainly not come through pressure lobbyist like you.

What we need is a slimmed down electoral system and process that allows real intelligence to lead
Look for example to Finland this is a country of 5.3 million around two-thirds of Finland is covered in mountain and forest and about a tenth by water. In the north, the sun does not set for around 10 weeks during the 'White Nights' of summer, while in winter it does not rise above the horizon for nearly eight weeks. Hardly the most favourable environment (no disrespect)
However look at their economic success compared to ours next time your with a group of people carry out the following survey to confirm my point.
Just ask them to take out their mobile phone chances are that up to 75% of the phones will be Nokia.
Where was the world leading brand Nokia developed designed and headquartered you guessed it Finland. QED. While the Finns were innovating a product that would storm the world market what were our geniuses in DE doing in comparison answer VERY LITTLE except inviting transient employers like Dell to set up only to abandon operations as soon as it became more advantageous to them.
No my friend it the people with the NOKIA vision we need in DE. Not the gombean element who panders to local pressure pressure groups in order to maintain their seats.
Of course the attendance now and again at the local GAA match (nothing wrong with that except the motivation) Wedding Christening Funeral and Parish dance to say nothing of a clinic on Saturdays morning and Wednesday evening at which he/she will claim to get you anything from Planning permission to Grants for replacement windows or the old chestnut the Medical Card ignoring the fact that these things are really non of their business or that processes exist and are provided for by the state to deal with these very issues.
Change

Geogregor

Setanta_og wrote: »

What type of cockology is this.........? Enda hardly has his legs under the table and you’re away with your begging bowl mentality of political patronism.

Do you not see that this type of lunacy has established a form of politics on the island that has held us in a grip of inertia since independence.
Resulting in a gombean system that allowed the continuous and ongoing election of cute whures to DE. People of limited ability vision or enterprise except for a cute awareness that by indulging the likes of you and yours with your parochial self-serving demands meant that he/she can continue living the life, surrounded by the best that money (TAX payer’s money) can buy in the great con job on Kildare Street.

After all the shananagings and revelation we have witnessed on the island over the last two years any chance of real political change will never occur if people with your attitude continue to use and expect politics to cater for your exclusive demands.

I would like to know what are the stats on passenger usage of the Claremorris - Limerick Rail corridor which was demanded by a similar lobby which you seem to epitomise. This project represents all that is wrong with our present political decision making process allowing such gross mismanagement of exchequer funds.

If we are ever to rise again as any sort of an economic force then change to the political system is needed and fast this will certainly not come through pressure lobbyist like you.

What we need is a slimmed down electoral system and process that allows real intelligence to lead
Look for example to Finland this is a country of 5.3 million around two-thirds of Finland is covered in mountain and forest and about a tenth by water. In the north, the sun does not set for around 10 weeks during the 'White Nights' of summer, while in winter it does not rise above the horizon for nearly eight weeks. Hardly the most favourable environment (no disrespect)
However look at their economic success compared to ours next time your with a group of people carry out the following survey to confirm my point.
Just ask them to take out their mobile phone chances are that up to 75% of the phones will be Nokia.
Where was the world leading brand Nokia developed designed and headquartered you guessed it Finland. QED. While the Finns were innovating a product that would storm the world market what were our geniuses in DE doing in comparison answer VERY LITTLE except inviting transient employers like Dell to set up only to abandon operations as soon as it became more advantageous to them.
No my friend it the people with the NOKIA vision we need in DE. Not the gombean element who panders to local pressure pressure groups in order to maintain their seats.
Of course the attendance now and again at the local GAA match (nothing wrong with that except the motivation) Wedding Christening Funeral and Parish dance to say nothing of a clinic on Saturdays morning and Wednesday evening at which he/she will claim to get you anything from Planning permission to Grants for replacement windows or the old chestnut the Medical Card ignoring the fact that these things are really non of their business or that processes exist and are provided for by the state to deal with these very issues.
Change

Could you explain what your post has to do with N7 Newlands Cross upgrade?
However entertaining read it is I fail to see the point of connection.

Wild Bill

Geogregor wrote: »

Could you explain what your post has to do with N7 Newlands Cross upgrade?
However entertaining read it is I fail to see the point of connection.

Problem is it was responding to an off-topic whinge.

What else could he do?

Guy:Incognito

busman wrote: »

Last time someone Killed : 2007?

The RSA have a map that shows collisions for 2006-8

Someone was killed in a stolen car at Newlands a couple of months ago.

highdef

Well if it was someone in a stolen car, then I would assume that they were most likely not driving for the conditions of the junction at all. I would completely discount that particular fatality. Although being slightly pre-judgemental, most stolen cars drive at very high speeds and in an extremely dangerous and erratic manner therefore I would say that there was a very high chance that this stolen car would most likely have crashed at some point on it's journey. It just happened to be Newlands Cross for this unfortunate joy rider. If he'she had not had the collision here, it wold have been very likely to have happened somewhere else in the "journey". That's like saying that if 1 or more people manage to roll over their stolen car in the middle of a quiet middle class housing and kill themselves in the process, then the street/road in question is then deemed to be very dangerous as a result. Of course that wouldn't happen, it would be just discounted as being a freak incident due to dangerous driving rather than problems with the environment causing the deaths.

Great to hear that the junction is going to be upgraded though....hopefully the Palmerstown junctions on the N4 will follow suit sometime soon

veryangryman

highdef wrote: »

Well if it was someone in a stolen car, then I would assume that they were most likely not driving for the conditions of the junction at all. I would completely discount that particular fatality. Although being slightly pre-judgemental, most stolen cars drive at very high speeds and in an extremely dangerous and erratic manner therefore I would say that there was a very high chance that this stolen car would most likely have crashed at some point on it's journey. It just happened to be Newlands Cross for this unfortunate joy rider. If he'she had not had the collision here, it wold have been very likely to have happened somewhere else in the "journey". That's like saying that if 1 or more people manage to roll over their stolen car in the middle of a quiet middle class housing and kill themselves in the process, then the street/road in question is then deemed to be very dangerous as a result. Of course that wouldn't happen, it would be just discounted as being a freak incident due to dangerous driving rather than problems with the environment causing the deaths.

Great to hear that the junction is going to be upgraded though....hopefully the Palmerstown junctions on the N4 will follow suit sometime soon

Doubt Palmerstown will ever be done. Then wed only be complaining about Ballyfermot, Chapelizod etc junctions. Traffics gotta slow down somewhere - you cant have someone braking suddenly at Heuston 90 degree turn for instance

highdef

That's very true, I must admit. However, I turn off just after palmerstown and head towards Chapelizod as I work in Inchicore west. So i guess it's pure IMBYism on my part as traffic further on would most likely not affect me. I shouldn't be so selfish......I should be more emphatic!!!

robert muldoon

veryangryman wrote: »

Doubt Palmerstown will ever be done. Then wed only be complaining about Ballyfermot, Chapelizod etc junctions. Traffics gotta slow down somewhere - you cant have someone braking suddenly at Heuston 90 degree turn for instance

I think we wont hear any thing untill April about Newlands and N11 upgrade,if we hear at all!!

starviewadams

There were guys out measuring stuff at Newlands X this morning,saw them from my bedroom window so couldn't make out who they were for definite,but they looked like the surveyor guys who were taking photo's etc around the time PP was being applied for a few years ago.

L1011

veryangryman wrote: »

Doubt Palmerstown will ever be done. Then wed only be complaining about Ballyfermot, Chapelizod etc junctions. Traffics gotta slow down somewhere - you cant have someone braking suddenly at Heuston 90 degree turn for instance

Palmerston would release another few km of grade seperated DC, though. Unlike every other route in to the city, the N4 route actually has a substantial amount of grade seperated DC inside the M50.

Conway635

If you wanted to be really cheap you could always have a unidirectional mini-flyover for outbound only!

C635

regedit

Does anyone have anything on the Newland's Cross Upgrade? Have they given up on it for 2011?

Edit: I checked: http://roads.southdublin.ie/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=179&Itemid=244
and they're saying: Present Position: May 2011 - The construction scheme is part of a PPP bundle contract being organised by the NRA which includes the Rathnew Bypass in County Wicklow. The tendering process is well advanced and it is expected that a contract will be signed in 2011. Construction is expected to take 21 months to complete the junction.

Chris_5339762

PPP funding is extremely hard to get at the moment due to the debt situation. I'd say this one is more likely to get funded than the M17/18 PPP due to the fact that its basically 25km of motorway and a small bridge. Its cheap enough.

Mind you, Newlands should never have been done as a PPP, that was a ridiculous decision. It should be funded directly by the government and should have been done along with the Naas road upgrades anyway. The fact that it wasnt is absolutely shameful.

L1011

The need to have the Naas Road upgrade finished for the Ryder Cup was the most likely reason they didn't do NX at the same time.

regedit

MYOB wrote: »

The need to have the Naas Road upgrade finished for the Ryder Cup was the most likely reason they didn't do NX at the same time.

Agreed however upgrading the M50 and the interchanges basically defeats the purpose without the NLX being upgraded. Traffic tails back on the M50 to NLX most eveings

Chris_5339762

MYOB wrote: »

The need to have the Naas Road upgrade finished for the Ryder Cup was the most likely reason they didn't do NX at the same time.

I've heard that argument before but most of the Ryder Cup traffic would have come from Dublin Airport anyway, so would have to go through Newlands. If anything, it would have had to have been MORE of a priority than the Naas Road. Besides, adding one extra junction to the upgrades would have been sensible.

I still think the reason that it hasnt been done yet is incompetence, nothing but. It slipped through the cracks and got forgotten. Whilst building the overpass wont make anything like as much of a difference as people think (it'll jam up in the morning just as badly because traffic jams back from Long Mile and the M50 anyway, evenings will be better but the bottleneck will still be the end of the 3 lane section to the Waterford junction).

That said, the money going to Longford and Belturbet should have been spent on Newlands, no questions asked

Jayuu

Whatever about doing it for the Ryder Cup, not including it as part of the M50 upgrade was bad decision making of the highest order.

"Let's see, we'll spend a fortune taking out the Red Cow roundabout so as to make it easier to access the N7 but we'll leave the major junction half a mile down the road untouched." No doubt somebody got a promotion for that one!

Wild Bill

The Red Cow free-flow made an enormous difference, even without NX. :cool:

Chris_5339762

True, it did, but leaving Newlands sitting there basically joining the M50 with the M7, 8 AND 9 was ludicrous.

spacetweek

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

True, it did, but leaving Newlands sitting there basically joining the M50 with the M7, 8 AND 9 was ludicrous.

Keep in mind that Newlands was originally meant to start in 2010 and be completed late 11. It'd nearly be finished by now only for our possible default.

Jayuu

Wild Bill wrote: »

The Red Cow free-flow made an enormous difference, even without NX. :cool:

Not disputing that at all. That being said at evening peak traffic tails back from NX almost back onto the M50 thus sometimes negating the money spent.

It was really short-sighted not to work on this when the M50 was being upgraded. A similar junction on the N4 was upgraded while the M50 was being done. I know it wasn't officially part of the M50 upgrade.

Chris_5339762

Traffic frequently tails back from NX onto the M50 and all the way to J10 Ballymount creating a terribly dangerous queueing situation as traffic coming onto the M50 from J10 has to battle through the tailback for NX.

I'd always go via Tallaght and up the ORR onto the N7 if I was doing it on a Friday evening. I just still cannot fathom how, after all the interurban building and all the motorway programme thus far, that Newlands is STILL sitting there as a set of traffic lights. Its absolutey scandelous.