Australia sleepwalking into population disaster.....

aiecquest

"Federal Labor backbencher Kelvin Thomson says Australia's projected population explosion will have a "catastrophic" effect on the environment and he has called for immigration levels to be cut.

The latest Intergenerational Report predicts Australia's population will rise to 35 million in 40 years' time, up from about 21.5 million people at present..."


In my opinion scaremongering using flawed data, many refer to data which includes temporary residents as PRs included in the population data e.g. 457s, WHVs, ETAs/Tourist Visas, International Students etc..

Many population and social experts and commentators with well known racial or cultural views are inclined to highlight environment, population growth, (Asian) student rorts etc. as a reason to stop or limit non caucasian immigration.

Interesting how you never see Australians asking themselves as to whether they should compromise their massive appetite for more cars, bigger houses, suburban sprawls, conspicuous consumption, etc.?
__________________

38141

Bofore the century is out australia will truly be asian, not just geographically, if ya know what I mean!

jank

Well its just a fact of life. The states will probably be hispanic but neither of these are bad things IMO.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Well its just a fact of life. The states will probably be hispanic but neither of these are bad things IMO.

:rolleyes: IMO, they are.....very bad.

I would hate to see the asians outnumber white Australians tbh, I can see it happening and i dont like it.

jank

Why is that a bad thing? It is not as if they have lived there for thousands of years. Personally I think its a bad thing that white people outnumber Aborigines.

brendansmith

Youre a real hero jank.

Something needs to be done about the Aborigines alright. They are a mess at the mo.

m@cc@

brendansmith wrote: »

Youre a real hero jank.

Something needs to be done about the Aborigines alright. They are a mess at the mo.

If by 'at the mo', you mean the last century.

brendansmith

m@cc@ wrote: »

If by 'at the mo', you mean the last century.

If someone stole your children you would hit the bottle too man!

jank

I am still waiting for you to explain why it is a bad thing though.

brendansmith

I like Australia the way it is.

jank

Which is what? White?

What is so good about Australia now than it might not be in a few years. You are coming across as racist so I am giving you this opportunity to clarify your position.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Which is what? White?

What is so good about Australia now than it might not be in a few years. You are coming across as racist so I am giving you this opportunity to clarify your position.

Thanks for this opportunity. You are so kind.

Doc

Why is cultural diversity always seen as such a good thing? I don’t think that it is particularly. It only results in the blurring and diluting of cultures and results in the world being a less interesting place overall. I don’t like the idea that everywhere will eventually be all the same. It will make for a really boring world.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Thanks for this opportunity. You are so kind.

Well as soon as you hit puberty we can discuss this again sometime, if puberty has come and gone than IMO others can judge what kind of character you are. I am afraid you were born 100 years too late.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Well as soon as you hit puberty we can discuss this again sometime, if puberty has come and gone than IMO others can judge what kind of character you are. I am afraid you were born 100 years too late.

You have exposed me jank, exposed me for all to see. Oh the shame. .

jank

Why is cultural diversity always seen as such a good thing? I don’t think that it is particularly. It only results in the blurring and diluting of cultures and results in the world being a less interesting place overall. I don’t like the idea that everywhere will eventually be all the same. It will make for a really boring world.

Well first off I never said that cultural diversity is always a good thing. Saying that is wrong but the same can be said that cultural diversity is always a bad thing which is what brendonsmith is saying. Basically he wants to live in a society where whites are always in the majority. Asians are bad, Hispanics are bad. Hmmm kay!

Yet he has no where said once why. Which than leads me to believe that he doesn't like them because of the colour of their skin. That is racism. plain and simple.

Now I can well understand the fear of some people where immigrants come in and seem to take over. Immigration policy should be up for public discussion and should not be hijacked by PC merchants preaching to us all let in the whole world. A country should have total countrol over their immigration policy but it should not be based on race.

Immigration policy should be based on what someone can add to the country. If you have a skill and are willing to work in Ireland/OZ with that skill than who cares what where you come from or what skin colour you are.

Australia had for a long time a white only policy, hell if you were Italian you were deemed too dark skinned to be allowed enter, but a pasty white Irish guy no problem. But the problem with this was the Italian doctor was overlooked in favor of the Irish guy who had no skills. Did that make sense?

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

You have exposed me jank, exposed me for all to see. Oh the shame. .

If you have nothing to add to the topic then pi$$ off.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

If you have nothing to add to the topic then pi$$ off.

Oh youre so mean. What a horrid thing to say. Well I never!

Doc

jank wrote: »

Well first off I never said that cultural diversity is always a good thing. Saying that is wrong but the same can be said that cultural diversity is always a bad thing which is what brendonsmith is saying. Basically he wants to live in a society where whites are always in the majority. Asians are bad, Hispanics are bad. Hmmm kay!...

I wasn’t specifically addressing you in the question Jank more of general question or even statement as I actually believe cultural diversity can have a very negative affect on a country. I have no problem with different cultures that integrate into the society to which they emigrate but I feel it is only human nature that makes it incredibly difficult to full adapt a different culture particularly if you are surrounded by people from your original place of birth. I have meet many Australians here who are 2nd or even 3rd generation immigrants from Asia who act and talk more like an Australian then I ever will but I also live very near to a Vietnamese area here in Melbourne where most of the shops have only signs in Vietnamese. This dose not enhance the local culture in my opinion it causes isolation. I have tried to buy things in these shops as I live in the area and have found that many of the shopkeepers have limited English. I really dislike the idea of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another. The colour of the persons skin is not a factor in this for me.

Xavi6

Lads, give it a rest. If you have a problem with a post then report it rather than reacting.

brendansmith: I'm giving you 24 hours to back up your comments about why exactly it is bad for Australia. If you can't/don't then I can only presume you are trolling and you will be punished accordingly.

BraziliaNZ

maybe people think it's a bad thing because the country was founded on british/european values basically, and they don't want that to be changed. Melbourne seemed to be FULL of Asians everywhere I went, almost like they are 50% of the population, and they were never speaking English. How on earth do so many of them get in there? And a growth in the Muslim population could change all kinds of things in Australia with their archaic beliefs and laws.

38141

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

Melbourne seemed to be FULL of Asians everywhere I went, almost like they are 50% of the population, and they were never speaking English.

This is just one of the issues. And many of these asians will give any white man a lecture on how they have been downtrodden and abused and racially discriminated against (esp filipinos) for ages blah blah blah and walk around with enormous chips on shoulders.

From a broader perspective, I've met aussies and discussed this with them; they've admitted to me that their country is being overtaken by asians. All they could reply was 'well australia IS part of asia after all', and 'they enrich our society by making it more multicultural'. You walk around anywhere in australia and you will see a definite pattern - each race keeps to it's own.

The race riots in sydney were just the beginning. It's gonna get much worse in oz I'm afraid, the tension.

jank

Doc wrote: »

I wasn’t specifically addressing you in the question Jank more of general question or even statement as I actually believe cultural diversity can have a very negative affect on a country. I have no problem with different cultures that integrate into the society to which they emigrate but I feel it is only human nature that makes it incredibly difficult to full adapt a different culture particularly if you are surrounded by people from your original place of birth. I have meet many Australians here who are 2nd or even 3rd generation immigrants from Asia who act and talk more like an Australian then I ever will but I also live very near to a Vietnamese area here in Melbourne where most of the shops have only signs in Vietnamese. This dose not enhance the local culture in my opinion it causes isolation. I have tried to buy things in these shops as I live in the area and have found that many of the shopkeepers have limited English.

I agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society. However one should also have the right to keep ties to their mother country. Take the above example. Instead of a Vietnamese shop how about if it were and Irish bar? Would that be an example of trying to insulate oneself from their country.

I really dislike the idea of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another

Why?

Your last point doesn't make sense at all and is just wrong! Do you think its ok to colonise a country and export a culture to it as well, cause that is what OZ and NZ is.

Cultures have been mixing since people have learned to walk up straight. If that were not the case we would still be using roman numerals as numbers using ogham stones to communicate and eating boiled goats cheese all day.

jank

38141 wrote: »

The race riots in sydney were just the beginning. It's gonna get much worse in oz I'm afraid, the tension.

Sensationalist nonsense. Those "riots" were hijacked by a bunch of beer fueled alpha males trying to "protect" their turf.

brendansmith

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

maybe people think it's a bad thing because the country was founded on british/european values basically, and they don't want that to be changed. Melbourne seemed to be FULL of Asians everywhere I went, almost like they are 50% of the population, and they were never speaking English. How on earth do so many of them get in there? And a growth in the Muslim population could change all kinds of things in Australia with their archaic beliefs and laws.

This is my feeling completely.

There has been much talk of dodgy visa companies providing student visas to Indians who have no intention of going to college and work illegally for the 4 years and get citizenship. And heres me busting my balls trying to get it legit.

Also there is no doubt about tensions beween races in Australia, I think Melbourne is averaging 3 'bashed' Indians a week at the mo.

shane86

38141 wrote: »

This is just one of the issues. And many of these asians will give any white man a lecture on how they have been downtrodden and abused and racially discriminated against (esp filipinos) for ages blah blah blah and walk around with enormous chips on shoulders.

tbh any Asian ranting to you that white Aussies hate his people probably has a good point. Aussies are sound but litreally cant go 15 minutes without a race rant. Sydney folk seem to be worse- when I was in the north I expected it to be some KKK like land, yet the whites and natives there get along fairly well, they all seem to be mates generally. You would see them drinking together in the pubs. But Sydney, jesus. Ive little time for political correctness and all that but the Sydney people just take the mick- they pretty much hate everyone apart from the Irish.

From a broader perspective, I've met aussies and discussed this with them; they've admitted to me that their country is being overtaken by asians.

The vast majority of Asians on the streets of Sydney seem to be Koreans on temp visas. Fact is that if Oz didnt have Asians you wouldnt be getting a taxi home at 4am, you wouldnt have 24 hour stores, etc etc etc. They seem to have more of an "our country" view than Canadians, yanks and any other new world country.

brendansmith wrote: »

There has been much talk of dodgy visa companies providing student visas to Indians who have no intention of going to college and work illegally for the 4 years and get citizenship. And heres me busting my balls trying to get it legit.

Might do the same myself. Lets face it, home isnt a place any of us want to be right now, and granting student visas only allowing 20 hours work per week in what is prob a min wage job is taking the piss. From personal experience the amount of Irish illegals here is growing by the day. If the system is open to abuse Id go for it myself.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

This is my feeling completely.

There has been much talk of dodgy visa companies providing student visas to Indians who have no intention of going to college and work illegally for the 4 years and get citizenship. And heres me busting my balls trying to get it legit.
.

Is this a fact or just talk?

Also there is no doubt about tensions beween races in Australia, I think Melbourne is averaging 3 'bashed' Indians a week at the mo

Yep, that is a real problem alright but I suppose it is the indians fault for being there in the first place.:rolleyes:

Anyway since you are back maybe you can explain your original comments.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Is this a fact or just talk?

Fact

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23093080-27958,00.html

'Australia has suffered its share of phony degrees, shonky colleges and visa scams. There have been reports of students speaking such poor English that they have had to chip in to pay for translators in a bid to understand the subject they paid large sums of money to study. And, there have been government raids on college buildings, yielding long lists of students who never seem to attend classes.'

jank wrote: »

Yep, that is a real problem alright but I suppose it is the indians fault for being there in the first place.:rolleyes:.

Thats racist. The OZ/NZ forum prides itself on being a friendly forum, read the charter. Your aggresive tone and insinuations are unnecessary, the posters here are all quite reasonable and we enjoy a good laugh also.

jank wrote: »

Anyway since you are back maybe you can explain your original comments.

BraziliaNZ sumed it up nicely already.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Fact

http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,25197,23093080-27958,00.html

'Australia has suffered its share of phony degrees, shonky colleges and visa scams. There have been reports of students speaking such poor English that they have had to chip in to pay for translators in a bid to understand the subject they paid large sums of money to study. And, there have been government raids on college buildings, yielding long lists of students who never seem to attend classes.'.

LOL. Did you even read the article? They have a guy from Ireland and Britain giving comments about this problem in....., you guessed it Ireland and Britain but no one commenting from Australia, so a problem is happening in country A so it must also be happening in country X. It doesn't mention Australia once. Hmmmm, no you need to do better than that.

brendansmith wrote: »

Thats racist. The OZ/NZ forum prides itself on being a friendly forum, read the charter. Your aggresive tone and insinuations are unnecessary, the posters here are all quite reasonable and we enjoy a good laugh also..

Dont give up the day job

brendansmith wrote: »

BraziliaNZ sumed it up nicely already.

So basically its bad for Australia because they don't speak "Australian" and they dont look white oh and add in a sprinkle of islamaphobia. Nice! Irony isn't lost on you is it!

Saying that I agree that the values of Australia which is mostly based on Anglo-Saxon capitalism should not be changed but there is no proof that a more Asian Australia will do that. Christ, look and China and Japan, they work their bollox off to get where they are today. Although I am confused, what Asian values are bad?

Doc

jank wrote: »

I agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society. However one should also have the right to keep ties to their mother country. Take the above example. Instead of a Vietnamese shop how about if it were and Irish bar? Would that be an example of trying to insulate oneself from their country.



Why?

Your last point doesn't make sense at all and is just wrong! Do you think its ok to colonise a country and export a culture to it as well, cause that is what OZ and NZ is.

Cultures have been mixing since people have learned to walk up straight. If that were not the case we would still be using roman numerals as numbers using ogham stones to communicate and eating boiled goats cheese all day.

How can you say that you agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society and then say that my dislike of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another doesn’t make sense at all and is just wrong?

In regards to your question about the Irish bar I do see it as a way of Irish people isolating themselves from the culture of the countries they are in and although I see the value for a traveler like myself who may feel homesick I rarely attend them unless I want to see a game that I couldn’t see elsewhere. However I do feel your point is slightly unsound as you do not see a whole road full of Irish pubs, shops restraints and shops in any city in the world outside of Ireland and if you did yes it would be wrong.

No I don’t think its ok to colonize a country and export a culture to it as well (I had thought I was pretty clear on this) and don’t think it was right that it happened to Australia or New Zealand. However we can not change what happened hundreds of years in the past but we can learn from the mistakes which where made. The fact is that settlers and convicts from the UK and Ireland did come here and exported there culture here.

Your point about roman numerals, ogham stones and goats cheese is ridicules culture is not the same thing as knowledge and one dose not necessarily have to change it because of a development in the other.

I think my previous post was pretty clear but that you where too high up on that horse of yours to read it properly and appreciate that a view of the world that is different then your own can be valid.

I believe one of the great things about this world is that there is so much cultural diversity from country to country and would like it to continue.

Traq

LOL. Did you even read the article? They have a guy from Ireland and Britain giving comments about this problem in....., you guessed it Ireland and Britain but no one commenting from Australia, so a problem is happening in country A so it must also be happening in country X. It doesn't mention Australia once. Hmmmm, no you need to do better than that.

Not taking sides here but just wanted to point out that BrendanSmith does have a valid point with regard to certain 'schools' offering certs and degrees for cash to enable students to gain PR.

It has been documented in the media over here.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rogue-college-faces-melbourne-audit-20080811-3tms.html

and

http://www.fisa.org.au/node/130

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

LOL. Did you even read the article? They have a guy from Ireland and Britain giving comments about this problem in....., you guessed it Ireland and Britain but no one commenting from Australia, so a problem is happening in country A so it must also be happening in country X. It doesn't mention Australia once. Hmmmm, no you need to do better than that.

Are you serious? I even quoted the part where it refers to Australia.

jank wrote: »

Dont give up the day job.

Very constructive sir

jank wrote: »

So basically its bad for Australia because they don't speak "Australian" and they dont look white oh and add in a sprinkle of islamaphobia. Nice! Irony isn't lost on you is it!

Saying that I agree that the values of Australia which is mostly based on Anglo-Saxon capitalism should not be changed but there is no proof that a more Asian Australia will do that. Christ, look and China and Japan, they work their bollox off to get where they are today. Although I am confused, what Asian values are bad?

I dont know whats going on here. Is this a joke on me? What in gods name are you talking about???????

jank

Doc wrote: »

How can you say that you agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society and then say that my dislike of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another doesn’t make sense at all and is just wrong?.

It means what I said. One does not emigrate to a country and then say you are no longer Irish, Korean, Indian. That stays with you until you die. However, efforts on the induviduals part must also entail the learning of the native language, skills to put to work etc. Having a bunch of Vietnamese sitting around the place all day playing mah jong drinking Bai Hoi is no good to anyone. Having a bunch of Vietnamese setting up shops selling local Vietnamese food, cuisine, grafting a living so that their kids can go do university and get the best out of Australia/NZ/Ireland is what one wants to see happen. Yet you complain about that? Do you want to to start wearing khaki shorts and go crocodile hunting and say "Crikey Mate!"

Doc wrote: »

In regards to your question about the Irish bar I do see it as a way of Irish people isolating themselves from the culture of the countries they are in and although I see the value for a traveler like myself who may feel homesick I rarely attend them unless I want to see a game that I couldn’t see elsewhere. However I do feel your point is slightly unsound as you do not see a whole road full of Irish pubs, shops restraints and shops in any city in the world outside of Ireland and if you did yes it would be wrong..

About 100 years ago in the states this would have happened. Didn't seem to cause too much problems there. The area where St Patrick's cathedral in New York was built was originally Irish, they then moved on and in came the Italians and so on now the area is mostly commercial with offices.

The east end in London is similar, Huguenots, Irish, Jews and now Bengali have lived there and moved on. The movement of people is a fact of life. People will live with like minded and like cultured people but as they settle they will melt into the wider community. It has been going on since year dot.

Doc wrote: »

No I don’t think its OK to colonize a country and export a culture to it as well (I had thought I was pretty clear on this) and don’t think it was right that it happened to Australia or New Zealand. However we can not change what happened hundreds of years in the past but we can learn from the mistakes which where made. The fact is that settlers and convicts from the UK and Ireland did come here and exported there culture here. .

I agree but the irony is sometimes lost on people that are now saying "no more" while your average Aborigine is dying before they reach their 50's.

Doc wrote: »

Your point about roman numerals, ogham stones and goats cheese is ridicules culture is not the same thing as knowledge and one dose not necessarily have to change it because of a development in the other..

Oh but it is, the movement of people has brought about the sharing of knowledge. The 2 are one and the same. Human capital is the number one thing that drives the world. Read some history books and you will see what I am saying is correct. Look at the roman empire, the British empire even the American "empire" of today. Of course not as obvious in todays internet world.

Doc wrote: »

I think my previous post was pretty clear but that you where too high up on that horse of yours to read it properly and appreciate that a view of the world that is different then your own can be valid..

Now now, play the ball not the man:pac:

Doc wrote: »

I believe one of the great things about this world is that there is so much cultural diversity from country to country and would like it to continue.

And letting a few Asians into Australia is not going to to lead to a homogeneous world. This is what I dont like, taking a valid point but running a million miles with it to get across a point of view that is extreme and bares no validity to the original point.

If you again refer to my very very first post on this topic.

Well its just a fact of life. The states will probably be hispanic but neither of these are bad things IMO.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

Are you serious? I even quoted the part where it refers to Australia.

Australia is refereed to once in the very first sentence but the rest of the story about 10 paragraphs long is all about Britain and Ireland.....

brendansmith wrote: »

I dont know whats going on here. Is this a joke on me? What in gods name are you talking about???????

Plainly words with more than 3 syllables is too much for you to handle. I wont be wasting anymore time on this subject with you as you have already shown your true colors.

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Australia is refereed to once in the very first sentence but the rest of the story about 10 paragraphs long is all about Britain and Ireland......

I think you may have missed Traq's post.

jank wrote: »

Mindless nonsense rambling is too much for you to handle.

True

jank wrote: »

I wont be wasting anymore time on this subject with you as you have already shown your true colors.

MODS!! Hes calling me a racist again!!

jank

Traq wrote: »

Not taking sides here but just wanted to point out that BrendanSmith does have a valid point with regard to certain 'schools' offering certs and degrees for cash to enable students to gain PR.

It has been documented in the media over here.

http://www.theage.com.au/national/rogue-college-faces-melbourne-audit-20080811-3tms.html

and

http://www.fisa.org.au/node/130

Thanks for that. How many people though have used this as a way of getting citizenship? Those articles dont mention it.

I doubt that this is a scam that has been used by thousands never minds hundreds to get citizenship. Kinda like the story that went around Ireland that refuges got free money, free houses and free cars!

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

Thanks for that. How many people though have used this as a way of getting citizenship? Those articles dont mention it.

I doubt that this is a scam that has been used by thousands never minds hundreds to get citizenship. Kinda like the story that went around Ireland that refuges got free money, free houses and free cars!

http://www.smh.com.au/national/blitz-on-foreign-students-to-screen-out-visa-fraud-20090820-es3r.html

If you are in Austalia legally for 4 years you can apply for citizenship. Thats what alot of foreign students from the like of Indonsia have told me they have done.

Doc

jank wrote: »

It means what I said. One does not emigrate to a country and then say you are no longer Irish, Korean, Indian. That stays with you until you die. However, efforts on the induviduals part must also entail the learning of the native language, skills to put to work etc. Having a bunch of Vietnamese sitting around the place all day playing mah jong drinking Bai Hoi is no good to anyone. Having a bunch of Vietnamese setting up shops selling local Vietnamese food, cuisine, grafting a living so that their kids can go do university and get the best out of Australia/NZ/Ireland is what one wants to see happen. Yet you complain about that? Do you want to to start wearing khaki shorts and go crocodile hunting and say "Crikey Mate!"

Oh is that what I complained about?

If I ever chose to emigrate to this counter then I believe I would be Australian. I would have chosen that I did not wish to live in Ireland and that I wanted to be an Australian because for whatever reason being an Australian would be better for me.

I believe that if you chose to come to another country to live you should not try and rebuild your old country in the new. I am apposed to whole areas that are in the majority occupied by immigrants from one country in another. As I said the shops in my area sell Vietnamese products with nearly everything writhen in Vietnamese in the shops, this means that only people who can read Vietnamese can comfortably shop there. By living and working in these areas and not people do not integrate into the society they have chosen to join and this is what I would complain about. For example only yesterday I walking into a butchers in my area and did not know what cut of meet was being sold because the language that it is displayed in is indecipherable to me. The butcher also only spoke very basic pigeon English.

No I do not wish anyone to be a stereotype and think you’re probably just being facetious but yes I would like any emigrant to try and take up an interest in the culture and activities of the country they have come to.

jank wrote: »

About 100 years ago in the states this would have happened. Didn't seem to cause too much problems there. The area where St Patrick's cathedral in New York was built was originally Irish, they then moved on and in came the Italians and so on now the area is mostly commercial with offices.

The east end in London is similar, Huguenots, Irish, Jews and now Bengali have lived there and moved on. The movement of people is a fact of life. People will live with like minded and like cultured people but as they settle they will melt into the wider community. It has been going on since year dot.

Are you kidding? You don’t think Ghettoization cause too much problems? You are simply wrong and just because something has been happening a long time dose not mean it’s a good thing.

jank wrote: »

Oh but it is, the movement of people has brought about the sharing of knowledge. The 2 are one and the same. Human capital is the number one thing that drives the world. Read some history books and you will see what I am saying is correct. Look at the roman empire, the British empire even the American "empire" of today. Of course not as obvious in todays internet world.

People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

jank wrote: »

Now now, play the ball not the man

From your reply’s to many people here it would appear that I am a kettle and you are a pot who is calling me black.

jank wrote: »

And letting a few Asians into Australia is not going to to lead to a homogeneous world. This is what I dont like, taking a valid point but running a million miles with it to get across a point of view that is extreme and bares no validity to the original point.

If you again refer to my very very first post on this topic.

How many do you consider to be just a few? Major City’s across the world are already starting to seem homogenized. How is my view extreme? I didn’t once say Asians should not be allowed come into the country

Look basically I know the world is changing and I do think that people should be allowed go and live wherever they want as long as they contribute to that society but I am also aware that eventually it will result in a homogeneous world. I think that immigrants from anywhere too anywhere else should try and integrate and adapt to that country.

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

If you are in Austalia legally for 4 years you can apply for citizenship. Thats what alot of foreign students from the like of Indonsia have told me they have done.

yes the student visa thing is a well known way of getting a migrant visa- but this is alot different than citizenship. you need to have a migrant visa 4 years before citizenship

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

yes the student visa thing is a well known way of getting a migrant visa- but this is alot different than citizenship. you need to have a migrant visa 4 years before citizenship

Yes and a college course is 4 years generally. Unless i missing somthing here.

brendansmith

brendansmith wrote: »

Yes and a college course is 4 years generally. Unless i missing somthing here.

Besides an 'e' :pac:

hussey

brendansmith wrote: »

If you are in Austalia legally for 4 years you can apply for citizenship. Thats what alot of foreign students from the like of Indonsia have told me they have done.

hussey wrote:

yes the student visa thing is a well known way of getting a migrant visa

brendansmith wrote: »

Yes and a college course is 4 years generally. Unless i missing something here.

You can apply for a migrant visa not a Citizenship.
They are different.
You need to go student->migrant->citizenship

brendansmith

hussey wrote: »

You can apply for a migrant visa not a Citizenship.
They are different.
You need to go student->migrant->citizenship

Ahhhhhh gotcha!

BraziliaNZ

why doesn't someone try importing western values and people to China or Vietnam, and see where it gets you? Human rights maybe? My girlfriend (at the time) was spat at 3 or 4 times on the streets in Korea because she had blonde hair, never understood that one. They wouldn't put up with it at all. White-guilt means countries like Australia are supposed to take whatever immigrants are thrown at them, no matter what way they want to live, all in the name of PC.
I'm not Australian and don't live there anymore but it's a well run country and I don't like to see it being turned into a racially divided country, they'll be having race riots like the ones in Paris before we know it.

jank

Doc wrote: »

Oh is that what I complained about?

Well yes you did you said.

Why is cultural diversity always seen as such a good thing? I don’t think that it is particularly. It only results in the blurring and diluting of cultures and results in the world being a less interesting place overall. I don’t like the idea that everywhere will eventually be all the same. It will make for a really boring world.

Basically multi culturalism is a bad thing.

Doc wrote: »

If I ever chose to emigrate to this counter then I believe I would be Australian. I would have chosen that I did not wish to live in Ireland and that I wanted to be an Australian because for whatever reason being an Australian would be better for me.

Emigrating is one thing, giving up your nationality is another and tbh it doesn't make sense. Anyway your new country folk would still call you an Irish lad till the day you die. Would you give up your Irish passport? I doubt it!

Doc wrote: »

I believe that if you chose to come to another country to live you should not try and rebuild your old country in the new. I am apposed to whole areas that are in the majority occupied by immigrants from one country in another. As I said the shops in my area sell Vietnamese products with nearly everything writhen in Vietnamese in the shops, this means that only people who can read Vietnamese can comfortably shop there. By living and working in these areas and not people do not integrate into the society they have chosen to join and this is what I would complain about. For example only yesterday I walking into a butchers in my area and did not know what cut of meet was being sold because the language that it is displayed in is indecipherable to me. The butcher also only spoke very basic pigeon English.

OK one solution to this is don't shop there. Go to a butcher that has an english menu. That should solve all your problems. Supply and demand and market forces over time will dictate that they show their menus in english.

Doc wrote: »

Are you kidding? You don’t think Ghettoization cause too much problems? You are simply wrong and just because something has been happening a long time dose not mean it’s a good thing.

Immigrants living in a particular area does not automatically make it a ghetto. I have never heard the areas like the east end, hells kitchen or china town being called a ghetto or at least in the traditional sense where ghettos are poverty stricken hell holes where crime is rife. Anyway you missed the point completely.

Doc wrote: »

People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

Who is saying you have to change your way of life? I never did and I don't think your local Vietnamese butcher is trying to change your way of life either.

Doc wrote: »

From your reply’s to many people here it would appear that I am a kettle and you are a pot who is calling me black.

No, we have a difference on opinion and I am calling you up on some of the points you are making. Trying to brush it off as anything else looks like playing the victim.

Doc wrote: »

How many do you consider to be just a few? Major City’s across the world are already starting to seem homogenized. How is my view extreme? I didn’t once say Asians should not be allowed come into the country

What do you consider too many?
What major cities? Can you give an example?
You didn't say they shouldn't be allowed in but you are saying there are too many of them.

Doc wrote: »

Look basically I know the world is changing and I do think that people should be allowed go and live wherever they want as long as they contribute to that society but I am also aware that eventually it will result in a homogeneous world. I think that immigrants from anywhere too anywhere else should try and integrate and adapt to that country.

So you agree that this is all just a fact of life and will continue weather we like it or not.

jank

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

why doesn't someone try importing western values and people to China or Vietnam, and see where it gets you? Human rights maybe?

I suppose you have missed the last 20 years and the capitalist economic boom that is happening in Asia at the moment. Is that not western enough for you. Cars, Starbucks, McDonalds, Mass Media, Western clothing and fashion, Skyscrapers, Millionaires buying their Porches, Executives buying their condos.... the list goes on and on. All Asian I suppose. :rolleyes:

Oh and plenty of westerns working in both these countries.


Human rights has a problem in China alright but that is more of a politcol issue not a cultural issue. Some Asian countries like Japan, Korea have a faultless human rights record much better than say the US.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

My girlfriend (at the time) was spat at 3 or 4 times on the streets in Korea because she had blonde hair, never understood that one. They wouldn't put up with it at all.

In my travels I meet a blonde hair Canadian girl who taught there for 2 years and see loved the place. No spitting incidents reported. You must have been unlucky unless she was walking around in her bra all the time.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

White-guilt means countries like Australia are supposed to take whatever immigrants are thrown at them, no matter what way they want to live, all in the name of PC.

Oh please stop, just stop and save it for some right wing website. I am white and have never felt guilty of it nor was it ever implied upon me.

BraziliaNZ wrote: »

I'm not Australian and don't live there anymore but it's a well run country and I don't like to see it being turned into a racially divided country, they'll be having race riots like the ones in Paris before we know it.

Riots like those in Paris, Bradford, Brixton et al are mostly to do with socio economic reasons rather than race. Doesn't excuse it but there is more than meets the eye. Read up on the riots in Singapore about 50 years back and the efforts made by the government to include everyone into the social fabric of the country. Singapore now has 4 official languages, this should give you a clue on how they did this.

Anyway say what you about the Asians but they work their asses where ever they go and would much rather a bunch of them in Ireland than some social welfare grabbing lazy roma gypsies. That PC enough for you:pac:

brendansmith

jank wrote: »

multi culturalism is a bad thing.

No its not, this statement is wrong

jank wrote: »

is one thing, giving up your nationality is another and tbh it doesn't make sense. Anyway your new country folk would still call you an Irish lad till the day you die. Would you give up your Irish passport? I doubt it!

Id swop my Irish passport for an Australian in a heartbeat

jank wrote: »

is saying you have to change your way of life? I never did and I don't think your local Vietnamese butcher is trying to change your way of life either.

Nobody is saying that Vietnamese butchers are changing peoples lives. They sell meat.

jank wrote: »

you agree that this is all just a fact of life and will continue weather we like it or not.

Everybody agrees with this.

watna

jank wrote: »

If you have nothing to add to the topic then pi$$ off.

brendansmith wrote: »

Oh youre so mean. What a horrid thing to say. Well I never!

Boys behave please... and that goes out to other posters too. I know it is an emotive topic but we can be civil to each other.

I'm watching this thread carefully and will lock it if it gets out of hand.

Thanks.

jank

brendansmith wrote: »

No its not, this statement is wrong.

You do like to contradict yourself dont you.

IMO, they are.....very bad.

I would hate to see the asians outnumber white Australians tbh, I can see it happening and i dont like it.

brendansmith wrote: »

Id swop my Irish passport for an Australian in a heartbeat.

Fair enough but you would give up your status as a EU citizen too.

brendansmith wrote: »

Nobody is saying that Vietnamese butchers are changing peoples lives. They sell meat..

Not butchers per say but Vietnamese and Asian people generally are going by this post below.

People can share knowledge without us having to change our way of life.

brendansmith wrote: »

Everybody agrees with this.

Refer again to my very first post.

brendansmith

38141 wrote: »

Bofore the century is out australia will truly be asian, not just geographically, if ya know what I mean!

jank wrote: »

Well its just a fact of life. The states will probably be hispanic but neither of these are bad things IMO.

Done.

Refered to your first post.
You said that you think that you think that Australia becoming entirely asian and America becoming entirely Hispanic are good things.

Entirely Asian and hispanic is not the same as multicultural.

You have been ranting contradiction after contradiction, twisting and turning everyones comments and annoying every other poster with your rubbish.
Maybe you should just give it a rest.

Doc

jank wrote: »

Well yes you did you said.

"Why is cultural diversity always seen as such a good thing? I don’t think that it is particularly. It only results in the blurring and diluting of cultures and results in the world being a less interesting place overall. I don’t like the idea that everywhere will eventually be all the same. It will make for a really boring world."

Basically multi culturalism is a bad thing.

Yes I said that however this is not what you made out I “complained” about but apparently actually debating what I said was more difficult. Even your response here is not what you told me I was complaining about what I said was…

“How can you say that you agree that efforts have to be made by those who emigrate to try and integrate themselves into the society and then say that my dislike of just transporting your entire culture from one area to another doesn’t make sense at all and is just wrong?.”

If I was complaining at all I was complaining about the lack of integration of some immigrants who chose to live and work in area of their new country that is almost entirely composed of people, shops, restraints and bars just as it would be in their old country transporting their entire culture from one area to another and ignoring the existing culture of the country. I suppose I would also have been complaining about the fact that you where contradicting yourself.

What Brendansmith said is true you are trying to twist and turn what everyone has said who dose not agree with your opinions into something they are not.

jank wrote: »

OK one solution to this is don't shop there. Go to a butcher that has an english menu. That should solve all your problems. Supply and demand and market forces over time will dictate that they show their menus in english.

So would you say this to an 80 year old Australian woman who has lived in that suburb her whole life? Don’t shop here! The national language is English. The shopkeeper has made the choice to come to a country where English is the national language and at the least he should display in both languages.

jank wrote: »

Immigrants living in a particular area does not automatically make it a ghetto. I have never heard the areas like the east end, hells kitchen or china town being called a ghetto or at least in the traditional sense where ghettos are poverty stricken hell holes where crime is rife. Anyway you missed the point completely.

No I think you missed the point and the fact that you never heard that an area that is called Hells Kitchen was a ghetto and a slum is laughable.

jank wrote: »

No, we have a difference on opinion and I am calling you up on some of the points you are making. Trying to brush it off as anything else looks like playing the victim.

If you actually called me up on the points I made that would be one thing but you don’t.

jank wrote: »

What do you consider too many?

I asked you how many do you consider to be just a few? A few means a small number or amount. I live in Melbourne and there are more then a few Asian people living here. I have never once said that I thought too many Asian people lived here I have been purely talking about the cultural impact of people not adapting to the country they have emigrated to.

jank wrote: »

What major cities? Can you give an example?

My God you do need to be walked through everything don’t you. From London to New York and pretty much every major city in the world the shops are all stating to become the same from Boots in Bangkok to Kmart here in Melbourne and Starbucks and McDonalds all over the world the uniqueness of different cities is slowly disappearing. Also as people from all over the world are attracted to the big cities the diversity of the population becomes gather and it becomes harder and harder to distinguish a large city in on country from that of another.

jank wrote: »

You didn't say they shouldn't be allowed in but you are saying there are too many of them.

Tell me once when I said this!