Bullying and Offencive behavior,Airsoft Adverts, your opinions on this?

Masada

Hey everyone,

I am a regular of the airsoft forum and the other night i came across the thread im going to tell you about. i have been on there for 3 years and have seen arguements of all sorts and kinds but i think this is one of the worst, most agressive examples of bullying and abuse of moderator authority i have seen yet.
heres the thread,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055684098

this thread is in the adverts section of the airsoft forum and for the sake of clarity i would point out the OP is the partner of the moderator in question.
The member "pardu" posted this response to the sale, all within about 6 mins of eachother.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138468&postcount=10
then this,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138506&postcount=11
and this,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138549&postcount=12

Followed by the OP with this,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138709&postcount=13

Now i would see this as being the first sign of controversary in the thread. the member "pardu" seems to have a genuine interest in purchasing the items for sale and haggling is pretty much the way things go on that forum, from experience and the offer was resonable. He was wrong to post 3 times within a few mins.
In my opinion the user "pardu" should have been told to give more time in between posts in either PM or in a post. More importantly the user Firekitten should have been at least warned for back seat modding, her actions incited the response of pardu in these later posts.

That said, pardu should not have responded as he/she did here and probably deserved an infraction or at most a day or two off for personal abuse.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138784&postcount=14
and here,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138879&postcount=15

Then comes the moderator in question and not only takes sides but is very agressive and offensive. It would be my opinion that this mod, due to personal relationship with the OP should have reported the post as per usual procedure and let one of the other 4 moderators in the section look after it impartially. The thread did not warrant immediate action.

This is the mods response apon review of the thread and the driving force in my decision to start this thread. the amount of needless offensive language here and even the "haha" stinks of one sided abuse of power.

The 3 month ban and removal of the users ability to appeal is the most disproportionate mod intervention i have seen in my time on boards and yet nothing has been said to the user Firekitten for backseat modding and inciting the arguement to begin with.

Also for the sake of clarity, I do know lemming personally and we get along very well but without sounding like a misery case, i feel i just cant sit back and watch anyone (i do not know pardu) being bullied in such an extremely aggressive and singleminded way.

Lemming wrote: »

Mistake number one. And a very large one. Thread-spoiling ban number one. "haha" on that.



Mistake number two. And one that you have persisted in across multiple threads (yes, we do notice these things ... ); i.e. posting to the point of harassment.

Not an outright ban in itself, but you've done yourself no favours in the moderator-leniency stakes.




And uber mistake number f*cking three.

Damn that was a doozy. It's rare these days (alas) that one encounters users who so utterly devoid of ability to understand the rules whilst moderating. It's so easy it should be criminal. You practically just handed me my ban-hammer on a gold-plated tray. Your post is practically on par with nomination for a Darwin award.

But yes, on the note of your mistakes; mistake one lands you two weeks off. Mistake two gets you lack of appeal. Mistake three? Well .... lets just say "Good. F*cking. Night." Have a nice three months off to think about it all, between the general behaviour, thread spoiling and abuse.



For the rest of you; I leave you with this PM. It made me laugh.



Oh, by the way Pardu ... a word to the wise; insulting a moderator's girlfriend when you're already in the firing line for an awful f*cking beating is not the most sensible of things one could do. If it's any consolation, you did make me laugh though. At you.

Thread unlocked.

AlternateID also responded to lemmings attack on thread and received a ban also, I agree it was not the place for it at all but this again, is an over the top response. I would imagine any of the other mods in there would have infracted him and given him a warning not to do it again, Instead he got a week ban.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62153433&postcount=35

http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62154314&postcount=36


I would be interested in reading your own views as i feel strongly about this and believe it should be pointed out that aggressive and abusive language has no part on the forum. Personal abuse is always taken seriously as per boards charter and in my mind the mods response in this thread was definitely personal and certainly abusive.

I also believe a mod should be impartial and if in the situation where you are personally involved with another, you should let another of the mods deal with the issue.

Lemming

I was expecting this post from one of a select few airsoft posters before I even moderated the thread in question, so nothing that has been said has not been anticipated.

So with that in mind, I'm going to take my time in gathering my response.

Masada

Well, don't smoke without fire James.

Speak your mind.

Point still stands though, by your own words you expected a reaction because you know you've stepped the line and then some.

you can be a tough moderator without being so wildly abusive, i know many a mod on boards who do so across all the sub forums i read.

Firekitten

As the op of that thread... I do not feel I insighted any need for that response.

The user in question offered me too low, i told him so, fair yes? or must I accept any offer?

He repeated, and i refused. I was after the asking price, which is fair no?

The user got abusive, thread spoiled, then came back saying he would offer asking. Frankly, at this point, i didnt wish to sell the item to him. My right yes?


I reported the user after he insulted me personally. As did, i'm told, two other users I know. So there was a clear case of abuse others saw...

I didnt ask Lemming to intervine. and After the member made a personal attack against myself again, in pm to Lemming, I'm not suprised he was harsh, the person broke several significant rules, and was punished accordingly in what I saw...

This moderator, from my viewing of adverts, is consistent and fair in his aproach to his job. Our personal relationship aside. He is mature enough to separate work and personal life. I think some people need to get a grasp on that.

Masada: smoke without fire? I dont think it counts when the 'firefighter' starts the fire....

Masada

In all honesty rachel, can you say the above quote with all that language an threatening is mature?


Nobody is saying you have to accept his offer. but you didn't have to go to the level of accusing him of Harrassing you. He did seem eagar and probably not familiar with the workings of the forum but you took it to that level.

Firekitten

not familiar? he made atleast 12 posts in adverts topics that night alone... most of his posts are adverts. he knows it well.

He made repeated thread spoiling comments, i asked him to stop harassing me, a fair call.

As for the language used in the moderators post, I cannot comment. I am merely defending my own actions you brought into question. I stand by my actions, i followed the rules of adverts, and asked a member causing trouble to stop. That is not backseat moderating, but if otheres feel that is so, please, infract me and make this fair... if that is what it takes.

Masada

While i dont agree with you rachael, it wasnt you i stated this thread for.


If i may, i will quote your post here,

He made repeated thread spoiling comments, i asked him to stop harassing me, a fair call.

Firstly, stop harassing me, Secondly, if you want to pay 60euro postage, get it from america... oh, dont forget customs... dont fill my thread with crap...

I think theres quite a difference from your claim of "asking" and barking out. you should have reported the post and let the mods do their job.

The reason i started the thread is because of the abusive behavior of a moderator which you have reserved your opinion on.

Esel

Firekitten wrote: »

He made repeated thread spoiling comments, i asked him to stop harassing me, a fair call.

Popping up here as I'm an Adverts.ie mod, and sometimes refer users to the Airsoft FS Forum when they post such items on Adverts (as they are not allowed there).

I'm a bit puzzled by a couple of things. He had only made one thread-spoiling post at that point. Tbh, I can't see how he was harassing you, unless there were PMs involved?

Also, I can't see how you could say he was filling your thread with crap at that point. And where did he get 'ANTICS' from? A PM?

I would agree with the OP here that the modding should have been left to a disinterested mod, if one was available.

Firekitten

3 posts in nearly as many minutes... and all after I'd told him to offer asking, or wait... he proceded to spoil the thread with his 'i can get this cheaper' line, and I asked him to leave it out... Fair within the rules.


To be frank Esel... I dont see how the fact that myself and Lemming are a couple is relevant, or applicable... The actions taken were taken regardless of the nature of that... Its being brought up to muddy the waters here by parties that have previously made similar jibes and digs. Objectivity is relative.

Lemming

esel wrote: »

I'm a bit puzzled by a couple of things. He had only made one thread-spoiling post at that point. Tbh, I can't see how he was harassing you, unless there were PMs involved?

Also, I can't see how you could say he was filling your thread with crap at that point. And where did he get 'ANTICS' from? A PM?

Offer one at 16-09-2009, 20:58

Offer refused at 16-09-2009, 21:00

Offer two at 16-09-2009, 21:02
Offer three at 16-09-2009, 21:04 (also breaking thread-spoiling rules out and out at that point)
Offer four at 16-09-2009, 21:06

Refused and asked to stop harassing at 16-09-2009, 21:16

At what point do you not consider the above to be very much over the top? I've banned other posters recently for repeated similar carry-on so I have precedent on my side. Pardu has carried out similar to the above on other threads as well repeatedly. This time he broke several rules whilst doing so.

Next, the "I can get x cheaper from America" is very much constituted as "crap" in my book, i.e. willful thread-spoiling.

The Antics comment is from a deleted post, the contents of which I will forward to you esel since yuo are an adverts.ie moderator. You'll see the reaction to it was absurd.

Now, if you'll all not mind, I have Masada/Moggers/AlternateID/etc.'s post above (it's all being liased on IRC you see ... ) to pull apart. I've got a lot of writing to do.

esel wrote: »

I would agree with the OP here that the modding should have been left to a disinterested mod, if one was available.

There's a lot more going on here than what's being painted at face value esel.

gerrowadat

(it's all being liased on IRC you see ... )

...just to step in as the operator of the IRC channel where this is apparently being 'liased' (I'm not otherwise interested in this thread).

There isn't any plotting or grand conspiracy on IRC regarding this thread. In fact, AlternateID doesn't even use IRC. So please try not to drag the IAA or our IRC server into this unless you have concrete evidence, please and thanks.

Masada

Lemming you are trying to spread hysteria by implying there is more to this when their isnt, and that "theres more to come". you have had a couple of hours to ponder your reply and i welcome you speaking your mind.

But be open. address the issue brought up to wit, you using abusive language and behavior completely unnecessarily. your posts are there for all to read and make up their mind on.

Lemming

gerrowadat wrote: »

...just to step in as the operator of the IRC channel where this is apparently being 'liased' (I'm not otherwise interested in this thread).

There isn't any plotting or grand conspiracy on IRC regarding this thread. In fact, AlternateID doesn't even use IRC. So please try not to drag the IAA or our IRC server into this unless you have concrete evidence, please and thanks.

You mentioned the IAA, not me.

gerrowadat

Lemming wrote: »

You mentioned the IAA, not me.

I mentioned the IRC server. You seem to equate the two. But anyway, that's my cue to re-lurk.

Esel

Lemming wrote: »

....At what point do you not consider the above to be very much over the top? ....

Speaking purely from my own Adverts modding experience, the only thing I would have considered out of order up to then was the 'you can get this gun for 100 DOLLARS...' post. But Adverts modding is on a completely different scale, and the mods there have to concentrate on the blatant and serious rule breaks, otherwise we'd be bogged down..... (not trying to be condescending here, btw, just explaining why the first thing that caught my eye was the '100 DOLLARS' one).

I've banned other posters recently for repeated similar carry-on so I have precedent on my side.

I don't think I have ever browsed the Airsoft FS forum, but I completely accept the position you have stated here.

The Antics comment is from a deleted post, the contents of which I will forward to you esel since yuo are an adverts.ie moderator. You'll see the reaction to it was absurd.

Thanks for that. It explains the apparent lacuna between the two visible posts. Pardu13's 'ANTICS' reply was definitely completely uncalled for and way OTT.

Anyway, I've said my two cents worth, so don't plan to post here further unless someone raises points from this post.

leninbenjamin

I had a wee look at this out of interest, though I've nothing to do with airsoft or that.

i think a three month ban is excessive. What you call thread-spoiling, some would call haggling, very mild tbh. a warning would have been more appropriate.

As for the personal abuse, it was actually the OPs unnecessary response that kicked it off. A week, maybe two at most. 3 months is excessive imo.

in interests of consistency, the OP deserves at least an infraction. Impatience != harassment. If Pardu's was thread spoiling, that post was as equally bad.

finally, that post where the mod deals out the ban was really bad form. it's clear the mod took it personally and it has a pretty aggressive tone. I don't think that mods should be allowed behave like that. as pointed out in the thread, PM would be far more appropriate.

Blowfish

I'd be curious if there was a post missing just before Pardu's last one, he seems to be responding to something which isn't there any more. he/she deserved the ban (though maybe not 3 months of it), but I don't think posting the PM was particularly fair.

[edit] Ah, missed the bit where Lemming confirmed there was a deleted post

humanji

As someone who's just lurking about Feedback in order to stick their nose into other peoples business, I think the 3 month ban is far too excessive. Had the user been banned many times before? A short ban maybe, maybe longer if they've been acting the maggot on other threads, but 3 months is usually reserved for people who've constantly been warned or banned before, isn't it?

The other thing I'd say that if Lemming and Firekitten are partners, then Lemming shouldn't of been the one to mod that thread. If there was no other mod available, then at most it should of been locked as it was and then another mod told about it. There's a conflict of interest there and it comes across on the thread that, despite being a muppet, Pardu13 was excessively punished as a result.

If the other mods and/or admins feel that the ban is warranted, then so be it. But pointing out that the OP was "insulting a moderators girlfriend" really makes it sound like a case of revenge, despite everything else Pardu13 did.

So the short version is, that modding shouldn't get personal, and if it crosses that line, another mod should take over.

Penn

I think publishing the PM without permission was just the last straw. Extending the ban to three months is excessive in itself, but unless Pardu13 allowed the PM to be published, which I seriously doubt is the case, then it just comes across as a personal attack, an abuse of power and actions unbecoming of a moderator

Steve

I've just read the thread with my AMod hat on and I can't see a whole lot wrong with the moderation.
I've no connection with Airsoft whatsoever nor do I know any of the people involved but going purely on the content of the ad, here's how I would have dealt with it had it been on adverts.ie:

Threadspoiling: infraction if first offence, it wasn't, so 1 month ban.
Insults: add another 1 month ban.
Using an alt account underhandedly: permban for the alt account and 3 month ban for the main account.

What people can't see here is that the user in question had an obvious history of muppetry given the infractions (none by Lemming btw) they had accumulated in airsoft and this also gets taken into consideration when deciding on the appropriate action to take.

humanji

Still, even with a history, Lemming shouldn't of been the one to deal with it as it takes away from the validity of the ruling because of the conflict of interest. I'm not saying that there was, just to make that clear. I'm just saying that someone else should of modded the thread, even if the punishment was the same.

Masada

Good posts,
Steve, i agree with you. although the user was mild compared to others in the past. My objection is to the extremely offencive nature of the mods post. regardless of how justified a response was, he overdid it and also should have left it for ain impartial mod to deal with. i feel if th thread had not have been started by his parnter there would not have been such a reaction.

i also think it is very poor practice for the moderator to be posting people's PM's on the thread for himself to ridicule and dissect in public view of everyone while the op has no ability to post in return.
A quick look through the mods posts reveal a number of other condescending posts with needless overuse of F##, C##t etc and un awful lot of threats of "Slaping" people.

jor el

humanji wrote: »

Still, even with a history, Lemming shouldn't of been the one to deal with it as it takes away from the validity of the ruling because of the conflict of interest.

Why? If mods can't get involved in a forum in which they know the posters, then we may as well all just give up. Pardu13 was acting the ass, being abusive & spoiling the thread, Lemming did the right thing, regardless of his connection with the OP of the thread. That cannot take from the validity of the ruling, as Pardu13 deserved what he got.

The only thing I would say is that publishing a PM without the other party's consent is normally not done, though it does happen. That doesn't mean Pardu13 deserved to be let off though, that just means that Lemming made 1 mistake, out of many actions.

Masada

the question isnt weather pardu should have been let off but weather lemmings behaviour was acceptable. In my opinion it went far beyond the line.

Poccington

Personally, I think the punishment is a bit OTT but this is the part that sticks out to me...

Oh, by the way Pardu ... a word to the wise; insulting a moderator's girlfriend when you're already in the firing line for an awful f*cking beating is not the most sensible of things one could do. If it's any consolation, you did make me laugh though. At you.

Just by posting the above, the Mod shows that he didn't dish out the punishment as he would to any other user. At least, that's how it seems anyway. So what if it's your missus? Why even bring it up on the thread?

Also, no Mod should be posting stuff like "You're already in the firing line for an awful f*cking beating" to anyone, while in their role as a Moderator.

humanji

jor el wrote: »

Why? If mods can't get involved in a forum in which they know the posters, then we may as well all just give up. Pardu13 was acting the ass, being abusive & spoiling the thread, Lemming did the right thing, regardless of his connection with the OP of the thread. That cannot take from the validity of the ruling, as Pardu13 deserved what he got.

But it's a conflict of interest that gives the impression that it's a personal swipe, and not a mod decision. As I said, it doesn't really matter if it was the right punishment to give out, it was the wrong person to give it out. Lemming should of left the thread locked and asked another mod to step in.

The same outcome would pobably have been reached, but people wouldn't question it and there wouldn't of been the vitriolic post that Masada is talking about.

Penn

The fact he knows the OP doesn't really bother me as either way, if someone breaks the charter, it should be dealt with as soon as possible, and with what has been said about the users past history, the punsihment would seem to fit the crime. The publishing of the PM is what gets me though. If someone posts another persons PM without knowing the rule about it, they are warned and the post is removed. If they knowingly post a PM, they are banned and the post is removed.

Lemming, as a mod, knowingly posted a PM which was sent to him because he is a mod rather than just a general PM, and posted to give the other users a laugh.

Handsome Bob

I have to say Lemming that your posted wasn't that bad. Over the top and theatrical yes, but other than that it was for the most part okay. However this last bit

Oh, by the way Pardu ... a word to the wise; insulting a moderator's girlfriend when you're already in the firing line for an awful f*cking beating is not the most sensible of things one could do. If it's any consolation, you did make me laugh though. At you.

Thread unlocked.

Why did you even bring that bit up? I think you could have made your point without bringing your personal life into this. It makes me think your judgement was clouded in the ban you handed out.

For the rest of you; I leave you with this PM. It made me laugh.

Also, I'm not 100% on this, but isn't posting someone elses PM without permission meant to be bad form on boards?

gandalf

My god you must really want a modship badly there Richie but I suggest you pick a better class of martyr next time.

Pardu has acted the maggot on numerous post in airsoft adverts, has thread spoiled, has goaded other users and has paid the price. Because they re-regged they have a 3 month ban. Thats lenient I am of the opinion that any re-regged muppets should be banned for good.

Another pathetic storm in a tea cup.

Lemming

Masada wrote: »

this thread is in the adverts section of the airsoft forum and for the sake of clarity i would point out the OP is the partner of the moderator in question.

Indeed yes, FireKitten is my partner. Congratulations on stating what has not been a secret to anyone. More on that later.

Masada wrote: »

The member "pardu" posted this response to the sale, all within about 6 mins of eachother.
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138468&postcount=10
then this,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138506&postcount=11
and this,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138549&postcount=12

Followed by the OP with this,
http://boards.ie/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=62138709&postcount=13

Now i would see this as being the first sign of controversary in the thread. the member "pardu" seems to have a genuine interest in purchasing the items for sale and haggling is pretty much the way things go on that forum, from experience and the offer was resonable. He was wrong to post 3 times within a few mins.

This puzzles me. I elaborated rather clearly as to why Pardu13 was being banned because I knew that these very accusations would be levelled at me. Thank you for living down to my expectations Masada. Nice to see that as expected after I banned AlternateID for thread-spoiling, and PM'd Moggser after he openly laid accusation at me in front of the other airsoft moderators that if he had an issue with my moderation to take it to the helpdesk forum, that lo and behold your post appeared Masada. Or should I say "all of you". Of course none of this has been liaised either by phone, text, PM, or on any other "medium" where you asked for feedback from your team-mates after making your initial post. Not in the slightest.

More on AlternateID's ban later.

After a cursory glance through the search history of Pardu13's posts, I gave up after page three of eleven from overload. He has a history of being pushy to the point of harassment more often than not and constantly will not take "no" for an answer.

I could provide link after link, but it'll make for hard reading and my message is quite clear. So I'll keep it short. For example:

All from the same thread:

• 10-09-2009, 21:59 First post
• Refused
• 10-09-2009, 22:09 Tries again despite being told the seller wants cash and is not interested.
• 10-09-2009, 22:13 Tries again
• Refused.
• 13-09-2009, 23:29 Tries again with a trade
• Refused.
• 13-09-2009, 23:32 Tries yet again with the exact same offer
• Refused. Again.
• Later comes in as a re-registered user (SamP) to circumvent his ban and begins agin and I can't be arsed listing the rest of it.

And another thread:

• 15-09-2009, circa 22:00 Attempted off-thread dealing in this thread. No ban since I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

And another thread:

• Re-reg as SamP in this thread

These are three examples and I'll also include the thread in question that resulted in Pardu13's ban, making four that I found within a few minutes of cursory searching. I could go on, but the point is made concerning past conduct.

Pardu breached two rules, as already explained. One fundamentally important one as far as adverts.ie forums are concerned, and one that is both fundamental to adverts.ie and boards.ie. On this, I have been crystal clear; I considered his past behaviour which has not been favourable, I considered his post count and boards activity (heavily on airsoft adverts), I considered the nature of both his bans and then handed him three months. I would have done the same for any other user in the same circumstances. Indeed he has been on my radar for quite some time albeit hadn't quite crossed the line until the thread in question.

The ban was handed down without bias; as much as several posters here seem think me incapable of doing so, the irony of their accusation not escaping me (but more on that later too). At no time did my relationship to the OP interfere in the ban-making process, other than to make me smile as I did it.

Masada wrote: »

In my opinion the user "pardu" should have been told to give more time in between posts in either PM or in a post. More importantly the user Firekitten should have been at least warned for back seat modding, her actions incited the response of pardu in these later posts.

In your opinion. You are not a moderator and your opinion was not sought or needed. I have admittedly been far more lenient with my ban durations in the last roughly eight months due to users generally behaving, and people seem to forget this. I have enacted far more severe bans on airsoft adverts for far less abusive posts and I wouldn't need to dig far to find them.

As for back-seat moderating, you need to go and look up what back-seat moderating is Masada. In your haste to get a swing in you've overreached. FireKitten did, at no point during that thread, do anything other than refuse Pardu's repeated offers whilst stating that she was aware of his bid(s). Indeed, she got exasperating after he made his thread-spoiling america/ebay comment and asked him to stop. That post by him is very much the tipping point to the entire thread and entirely on his own head.

The fact that it was FireKitten who felt harassed at that point or another use is secondary. A seller felt harassed after repeatedly refusing another user's posts. I would have acted regardless, and Pardu would have received the same ban. A moot point I may add since he then created a second account, and a suspected third to circumvent his ban, thus resulting in a site-ban. Clearly somebody willing to abide by the rules and worthy of your most stringent efforts to defend for the "good of the community" Masada and not some ulterior driven exercise in character assassination (of which you and some of your acquaintances are most practised these days) ...

Masada wrote: »

That said, pardu should not have responded as he/she did here and probably deserved an infraction or at most a day or two off for personal abuse.

At "most" a day or two? What rock have you been living under and how far bereft of reality are you to make that suggestion? It only underscores either just how clueless you are regarding adverts moderation (which I sincerely doubt) or how quick & eager you are to try and score "points" against me for ulterior motives (of which rest assured to passers by this thread reeks). I have never once to my recollection given such a lenient sentence for personal abuse as a "couple of days". A couple of months is more accurate as a time-frame to suggest.

Masada wrote: »

Then comes the moderator in question and not only takes sides but is very agressive and offensive. It would be my opinion that this mod, due to personal relationship with the OP should have reported the post as per usual procedure and let one of the other 4 moderators in the section look after it impartially. The thread did not warrant immediate action.

Of course I took sides, it was blatantly obvious as to who was the poster very much in breech of the rules. What exactly do you think a single user ban is? Not taking a side?

It would also be in your opinion that you are either very much mistaken as regarding moderation or have ulterior motive in trying to paint this issue in such a light. ANY thread that descends into personal abuse warrants immediate action, if not because it's the right thing to do but is also necessary to calm the thread lest it descend into a flame war and prove even more difficult to restore. I can cite examples of such threads to back that assertion and once again, you show yourself to be bereft of any sort of notions regarding adverts moderation. Adverts.ie has always been ruled with zero humour and zero tolerance. That I have allowed the airsoft adverts sub-forum a degree of leniency in those rules in recent months is to my mistake and from this point on you shall all remember the rule of law. Goodwill takes years to build and moments to tear down.

As for claims of leaving the thread alone, the ban was handed down after some two hours had passed and no moderation had been carried out. The thread was first reported at 21:25 on the 16-09-2009. I had no proper access at that time since I was using a portable device at a friend's house, so I locked the thread pending moderator action at 21.35. No action was taken until by myself at 23.16. It can be argued that other moderators left it alone at that point, although it would not be remiss for another moderator to notice that I am indeed no longer online and pro-actively moderate in my place.

So roughly two hours passed before a moderator touched the advert. Me. Echoes of leaving to another moderator ring somewhat hollow since none bothered to intervene, although I shall also add caveat not to find fault with my fellow moderators in this respect as it can be argued either way and in no way reflects on them or their abilities to moderate.

Masada wrote: »

This is the mods response apon review of the thread and the driving force in my decision to start this thread. the amount of needless offensive language here and even the "haha" stinks of one sided abuse of power.

Take a look at ANY of my moderation posts going back over the last .... five or six years, and you'll find that when somebody acts like a complete muppet I tend to swear. You also seem to be a bit blind in your haste to post. Allow me to show you something that you obviously missed ...

Pardu13 wrote: »

you can get this gun for 100 DOLLARS new im just not arsed going through posting it over from america!
call me somewhat of a lazy bugger

haha

Lemming wrote: »

Mistake number one. And a very large one. Thread-spoiling ban number one. "haha" on that.

I set the important word in both quotes in bold italics for your correction ... "haha" indeed. Like, I'm soooo, like, drunk on power that I didn't think of quoting Pardu's comment back to him in sarcasm ... like.

Masada wrote: »

The 3 month ban and removal of the users ability to appeal is the most disproportionate mod intervention i have seen in my time on boards and yet nothing has been said to the user Firekitten for backseat modding and inciting the arguement to begin with.

Pardu removed his own appeal by re-registering with at least one other account (that has since been site-banned). You seem to be glossing over that rather rosy, important little fact to paint what i can only describe as an exercise in exceptionally dishonest behaviour reeking of ulterior motive.

As I have already said you also need to go look up the definition of back-seat moderating, and I also find your insistence that FireKitten brought Pardu13's harassing behaviour and abuse on herself by refusing his offers and asking him to stop to be both rather alarming and utterly, utterly chauvinistic and devoid of any level of dignity or respect.

Incidentally, you have also seen far, far, far worse bans handed out by me on airsoft adverts. That I haven't handed out such a moderately heavy ban in a while is neither here nor there. You have a short memory Masada, as do some others.

Masada wrote: »

Also for the sake of clarity, I do know lemming personally and we get along very well but without sounding like a misery case, i feel i just cant sit back and watch anyone (i do not know pardu) being bullied in such an extremely aggressive and singleminded way.

Ironic really, that the only person(s) engaging in bullying behaviour here is you and your cabal (yet again). This behaviour has persisted for months on end now both on and off boards.ie and I am quite frankly sick and tired of it and the two-faced behaviour from yourself and others Masada. You behave all civil and fine and friendly when one-on-one, yet then behave like a pack of dogs hunting for spoils slapping each other on the back seeing who can engage in the quickest bout of insult whilst trying to portray yourselves as victims. I am sick and tired of the endless character assassinations on myself, on FireKitten, and on our relationship by a bunch of dishonest, morally bankrupt, elitest-minded hypocrites.

Masada wrote: »

AlternateID also responded to lemmings attack on thread and received a ban also, I agree it was not the place for it at all but this again, is an over the top response. I would imagine any of the other mods in there would have infracted him and given him a warning not to do it again, Instead he got a week ban.

I have banned AlternateID before for similar behaviour. He had no excuse and is indeed fortunate that I did not hand out a heavier sentence in that account.

Masada wrote: »

I would be interested in reading your own views as i feel strongly about this and believe it should be pointed out that aggressive and abusive language has no part on the forum. Personal abuse is always taken seriously as per boards charter and in my mind the mods response in this thread was definitely personal and certainly abusive.

Hang on a sec. So personal abuse is serious after all? But you said ...

Masada wrote: »

The thread did not warrant immediate action.

Ah, I see, it's only serious when you are making a personal issue out of the moderation post to take another swipe. Gotcha.

I also believe a mod should be impartial and if in the situation where you are personally involved with another, you should let another of the mods deal with the issue.

I've already elaborated on this above. In short I'm going to summarise the above:

I gave Pardu13 a ban that would have been the same length given his circumstances had it been any other user. My relationship to the OP did not affect the ban making process save to make me laugh and think how unfortunate Pardu13 was to have sent that PM to me, trying to justify his use of abuse whilst continuing it. My choice of language after the PM could most certainly have been better phrased but nonetheless it was painfully obvious as to what I was referring to.

As for why I mentioned that FireKitten is my better half in the thread in question? Had I not (and I have nothing to hide), either Masada or an acquaintance would have brought it up either as reported (like Moggser), or slung mud and .. guess what? We're right back to this point in time anyway.

Either some people have an issue with the moderator decision taken in context of this thread, or they have an issue with the fact that I have a relationship. The fact that they have chosen make this "report" personal by trying to sling innuendo & accusation and drag my relationship into this whilst insinuating that I am incapable of objective, independent thought only moves me to afford them nothing more than utter contempt.

Frank the Manc

in my opinion he was a dirty spammer who clocked up circa 200 posts in a very short time re: hes ASG M14 that clearly noone want as a trade or to buy, and got deservedly banned.

how and ever i do have a problem with the inconsistancy with that banning and this thread:
http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2055682737&page=3

I dont know Johnboyeire personally but i have bough from him in the past and he was grand to deal with & completely above board too, but he definitely got the raw end of the deal here, he had his time wasted and thread spoiled which went to 3 pages before any intervention, compare and contrast that with the quick response time of the other thread.

Obviously annoyed wih the dreamers he may have been somewhat curt with them but i see no personal abuse here.

And for his troubles he gets a months ban while the tyre kickers and thread spoilers got a infraction.

Thats is in my opinion bollix, given Lemmings prospensity dish out the bans.
Not having a go at you cos i know the type of díckheads that popluate adverts, your man Paudu being a prime example, so bans are definitley well within reason, though stabbings would probabaly be better.

Lemming

Frank the Manc wrote: »

I dont know Johnboyeire personally but i have bough from him in the past and he was grand to deal with & completely above board too, but he definitely got the raw end of the deal here, he had his time wasted and thread spoiled which went to 3 pages before any intervention, compare and contrast that with the quick response time of the other thread.

johnboyire has over 500 posts to his name and most definitely knows better than to have posted what he did. Personal abuse is perhaps the wrong term to use but he was most definitely out of order. I gave him a month rather than something heavier given the benefit of the doubt of probably having a bad day and the poorly worded post by Dread-Lock which caused confusion.

And for his troubles he gets a months ban while the tyre kickers and thread spoilers got a infraction.

Dread-Lock clarified his post to me in PM. I spent quite a bit of time deliberating over what to do about his post over it. You don't always see what goes on as a user Franc.

Frank the Manc

Lemming wrote: »

johnboyire has over 500 posts to his name and most definitely knows better than to have posted what he did. Personal abuse is perhaps the wrong term to use but he was most definitely out of order. I gave him a month rather than something heavier given the benefit of the doubt of probably having a bad day and the poorly worded post by Dread-Lock which caused confusion.



Dread-Lock clarified his post to me in PM. I spent quite a bit of time deliberating over what to do about his post over it. You don't always see what goes on as a user Franc.

i know all that but if he didnt personally abuse someone or if he edited his post upon reflection, then what rule did he break that warranted a months ban.

He may have been sharp in hi replies but lets be fair theres nothing worse than dreamers and lads saying "im not payin that cos its 20 cheaper from china" when youre trying to sell something, especially when stuck for the few pound.

Again im not criticising you, you can be a cúnt but ive alwasy felt youre an equal oppertunities cúnt......
thats a compliment by the way cos a cúnt is whats sometimes needed to deal with some of these clowns.

Phractal

Masada: No offense, but I beg to disagree with you. Lemming in no way oversteps the acceptable boundaries of moderation. Was www.roguesci.org still around I would show you what real moderation is like - it aint pleasant! AS an ex moderator on many a forum (pyrotechnics forums) which required careful handling of the moderation - not removing certain posts could lead to a fatal accident! Or deleting the wrong post could stop people from learning valuable safety lessons, etc. I was known as a more leniant mod - giving chances and posting lots of tested experimentation, yet it did not work. On RogueSci, we had NBK2000. NBK was a proper, no prisoners, no **** mod. He was VERY heavy handed with the Ban-Hammer and liked to flame the HELL out of a guy prior to the ban.

All Lemming did, by comparison, was deliver a slap on the wrist. No heavy verbal abuse, public mockery and humiliation, merely a good verbal explaination and a TEMPORARY ban. Not a permanent ban.

Accusations of lemming allowing personal life to interfere are unfounded. It was merely for humor - and for the info of the ban-ee. Hell I REALLY doubt Rach would be abusin any backseat moderation or anything. Actually guys the accusation of letting personal life interfere was a tad unfair.

Now the rest of y'all givin Lemming an ear bashin. I note y'all are on the same team. Well why dont you all be as friendly as you are reputed to be.

In conclusion Masada, this aint seen by me, or fellow pyroforum types as offensive or even bullying. I recommend you read what happens on the pro-pyro forums to poor banned peeps! The dude broke the rules and paid. **** where I was moderating i/I failure could result in a ban!!!

Lemming: I actually must applaud you there! Seems like you are the kind of mod the internet NEEDS these days. Firm of hand, fair and unbiased - break em rules, you get banned- able to ban mercilessly, and also with some goddamn steel in your spine able to stand up to your fellow staffers.

All: I think we gotta stop feeling so sorry for the poor idiots who break rules and suffer the consequences. If we all were nice mercifull folk tere could end up like 'bombshock' 'totse' 'wierdpier' or such - overrun by idiots, unmoderateable and unreadable. ITS FOR THE GREATER GOOD.

IN total conclusion, firm moderation is good for you. SOMEONE has gotta do the dirty work of it and we cant really complain about how its done - it just GETS DONE.

gerrowadat

Now the rest of y'all givin Lemming an ear bashin. I note y'all are on the same team. Well why dont you all be as friendly as you are reputed to be.

For the record, I don't have an issue with Lemming's moderation in general, or in this post. Muppets need to get blatted, and ridicule is all part of the grand spectacle. Internet is serious business, after all.

I only called him out on blaming an IRC server I run for enabling some grand conspiracy that supposedly exists against him and the OP. The OP of the thread in question is permabanned from this IRC server, and there's some animosity there.

The idea that there's a 'cabal' or team of people tag-teaming him with abuse is all in his head, I'm afraid.

Firekitten

Yes... I remember that... Perma banned after offering you an olive branch to settle the pre existing animosity between myself and you Dave... I belive you laughed in my face when i tried to make peace... However, you don't need to drag this up... Although... This whole incident does stink somewhat of a previous trip to feedback with you and your boys Dave? I cant quite remember what it was about though?

Funbags Freddie

Lemming wrote: »

Indeed yes, FireKitten is my partner. Congratulations on stating what has not been a secret to anyone. More on that later.



This puzzles me. I elaborated rather clearly as to why Pardu13 was being banned because I knew that these very accusations would be levelled at me. Thank you for living down to my expectations Masada. Nice to see that as expected after I banned AlternateID for thread-spoiling, and PM'd Moggser after he openly laid accusation at me in front of the other airsoft moderators that if he had an issue with my moderation to take it to the helpdesk forum, that lo and behold your post appeared Masada. Or should I say "all of you". Of course none of this has been liaised either by phone, text, PM, or on any other "medium" where you asked for feedback from your team-mates after making your initial post. Not in the slightest.

More on AlternateID's ban later.

After a cursory glance through the search history of Pardu13's posts, I gave up after page three of eleven from overload. He has a history of being pushy to the point of harassment more often than not and constantly will not take "no" for an answer.

I could provide link after link, but it'll make for hard reading and my message is quite clear. So I'll keep it short. For example:

All from the same thread:

• 10-09-2009, 21:59 First post
• Refused
• 10-09-2009, 22:09 Tries again despite being told the seller wants cash and is not interested.
• 10-09-2009, 22:13 Tries again
• Refused.
• 13-09-2009, 23:29 Tries again with a trade
• Refused.
• 13-09-2009, 23:32 Tries yet again with the exact same offer
• Refused. Again.
• Later comes in as a re-registered user (SamP) to circumvent his ban and begins agin and I can't be arsed listing the rest of it.

And another thread:

• 15-09-2009, circa 22:00 Attempted off-thread dealing in this thread. No ban since I gave him the benefit of the doubt.

And another thread:

• Re-reg as SamP in this thread

These are three examples and I'll also include the thread in question that resulted in Pardu13's ban, making four that I found within a few minutes of cursory searching. I could go on, but the point is made concerning past conduct.

Pardu breached two rules, as already explained. One fundamentally important one as far as adverts.ie forums are concerned, and one that is both fundamental to adverts.ie and boards.ie. On this, I have been crystal clear; I considered his past behaviour which has not been favourable, I considered his post count and boards activity (heavily on airsoft adverts), I considered the nature of both his bans and then handed him three months. I would have done the same for any other user in the same circumstances. Indeed he has been on my radar for quite some time albeit hadn't quite crossed the line until the thread in question.

The ban was handed down without bias; as much as several posters here seem think me incapable of doing so, the irony of their accusation not escaping me (but more on that later too). At no time did my relationship to the OP interfere in the ban-making process, other than to make me smile as I did it.



In your opinion. You are not a moderator and your opinion was not sought or needed. I have admittedly been far more lenient with my ban durations in the last roughly eight months due to users generally behaving, and people seem to forget this. I have enacted far more severe bans on airsoft adverts for far less abusive posts and I wouldn't need to dig far to find them.

As for back-seat moderating, you need to go and look up what back-seat moderating is Masada. In your haste to get a swing in you've overreached. FireKitten did, at no point during that thread, do anything other than refuse Pardu's repeated offers whilst stating that she was aware of his bid(s). Indeed, she got exasperating after he made his thread-spoiling america/ebay comment and asked him to stop. That post by him is very much the tipping point to the entire thread and entirely on his own head.

The fact that it was FireKitten who felt harassed at that point or another use is secondary. A seller felt harassed after repeatedly refusing another user's posts. I would have acted regardless, and Pardu would have received the same ban. A moot point I may add since he then created a second account, and a suspected third to circumvent his ban, thus resulting in a site-ban. Clearly somebody willing to abide by the rules and worthy of your most stringent efforts to defend for the "good of the community" Masada and not some ulterior driven exercise in character assassination (of which you and some of your acquaintances are most practised these days) ...



At "most" a day or two? What rock have you been living under and how far bereft of reality are you to make that suggestion? It only underscores either just how clueless you are regarding adverts moderation (which I sincerely doubt) or how quick & eager you are to try and score "points" against me for ulterior motives (of which rest assured to passers by this thread reeks). I have never once to my recollection given such a lenient sentence for personal abuse as a "couple of days". A couple of months is more accurate as a time-frame to suggest.



Of course I took sides, it was blatantly obvious as to who was the poster very much in breech of the rules. What exactly do you think a single user ban is? Not taking a side?

It would also be in your opinion that you are either very much mistaken as regarding moderation or have ulterior motive in trying to paint this issue in such a light. ANY thread that descends into personal abuse warrants immediate action, if not because it's the right thing to do but is also necessary to calm the thread lest it descend into a flame war and prove even more difficult to restore. I can cite examples of such threads to back that assertion and once again, you show yourself to be bereft of any sort of notions regarding adverts moderation. Adverts.ie has always been ruled with zero humour and zero tolerance. That I have allowed the airsoft adverts sub-forum a degree of leniency in those rules in recent months is to my mistake and from this point on you shall all remember the rule of law. Goodwill takes years to build and moments to tear down.

As for claims of leaving the thread alone, the ban was handed down after some two hours had passed and no moderation had been carried out. The thread was first reported at 21:25 on the 16-09-2009. I had no proper access at that time since I was using a portable device at a friend's house, so I locked the thread pending moderator action at 21.35. No action was taken until by myself at 23.16. It can be argued that other moderators left it alone at that point, although it would not be remiss for another moderator to notice that I am indeed no longer online and pro-actively moderate in my place.

So roughly two hours passed before a moderator touched the advert. Me. Echoes of leaving to another moderator ring somewhat hollow since none bothered to intervene, although I shall also add caveat not to find fault with my fellow moderators in this respect as it can be argued either way and in no way reflects on them or their abilities to moderate.




Take a look at ANY of my moderation posts going back over the last .... five or six years, and you'll find that when somebody acts like a complete muppet I tend to swear. You also seem to be a bit blind in your haste to post. Allow me to show you something that you obviously missed ...





I set the important word in both quotes in bold italics for your correction ... "haha" indeed. Like, I'm soooo, like, drunk on power that I didn't think of quoting Pardu's comment back to him in sarcasm ... like.



Pardu removed his own appeal by re-registering with at least one other account (that has since been site-banned). You seem to be glossing over that rather rosy, important little fact to paint what i can only describe as an exercise in exceptionally dishonest behaviour reeking of ulterior motive.

As I have already said you also need to go look up the definition of back-seat moderating, and I also find your insistence that FireKitten brought Pardu13's harassing behaviour and abuse on herself by refusing his offers and asking him to stop to be both rather alarming and utterly, utterly chauvinistic and devoid of any level of dignity or respect.

Incidentally, you have also seen far, far, far worse bans handed out by me on airsoft adverts. That I haven't handed out such a moderately heavy ban in a while is neither here nor there. You have a short memory Masada, as do some others.



Ironic really, that the only person(s) engaging in bullying behaviour here is you and your cabal (yet again). This behaviour has persisted for months on end now both on and off boards.ie and I am quite frankly sick and tired of it and the two-faced behaviour from yourself and others Masada. You behave all civil and fine and friendly when one-on-one, yet then behave like a pack of dogs hunting for spoils slapping each other on the back seeing who can engage in the quickest bout of insult whilst trying to portray yourselves as victims. I am sick and tired of the endless character assassinations on myself, on FireKitten, and on our relationship by a bunch of dishonest, morally bankrupt, elitest-minded hypocrites.



I have banned AlternateID before for similar behaviour. He had no excuse and is indeed fortunate that I did not hand out a heavier sentence in that account.



Hang on a sec. So personal abuse is serious after all? But you said ...



Ah, I see, it's only serious when you are making a personal issue out of the moderation post to take another swipe. Gotcha.



I've already elaborated on this above. In short I'm going to summarise the above:

I gave Pardu13 a ban that would have been the same length given his circumstances had it been any other user. My relationship to the OP did not affect the ban making process save to make me laugh and think how unfortunate Pardu13 was to have sent that PM to me, trying to justify his use of abuse whilst continuing it. My choice of language after the PM could most certainly have been better phrased but nonetheless it was painfully obvious as to what I was referring to.

As for why I mentioned that FireKitten is my better half in the thread in question? Had I not (and I have nothing to hide), either Masada or an acquaintance would have brought it up either as reported (like Moggser), or slung mud and .. guess what? We're right back to this point in time anyway.

Either some people have an issue with the moderator decision taken in context of this thread, or they have an issue with the fact that I have a relationship. The fact that they have chosen make this "report" personal by trying to sling innuendo & accusation and drag my relationship into this whilst insinuating that I am incapable of objective, independent thought only moves me to afford them nothing more than utter contempt.

Great post and well said.

What is your response to the issue mentioned by a few people (who didn't question your moderation) of posting up a PM (Private message) with no permission to do so?

Why did you do it?


If I missed it in your post I am sorry but I just search "PM" and didn't see anything?

gandalf

Personally I wouldn't publish a pm when I moderated. If the pm in question contained something of substance then yes I would question why it was made public. It was rubbish and all it served to do was confirm the person that sent was a muppet and no loss to the airsoft adverts forum or boards.

Again I would ask people to choose their martyrs very carefully in future. This smacks of another witchhunt by the "Barbara Whitehouses" of the airsoft forum.

Lemming

Funbags Freddie wrote: »

What is your response to the issue mentioned by a few people (who didn't question your moderation) of posting up a PM (Private message) with no permission to do so?

Why did you do it?


If I missed it in your post I am sorry but I just search "PM" and didn't see anything?

No problems. I did mention it, although it's quite easily lost in that whopper of a post. Here's the part where I touched on the PM.

I gave Pardu13 a ban that would have been the same length given his circumstances had it been any other user. My relationship to the OP did not affect the ban making process save to make me laugh and think how unfortunate Pardu13 was to have sent that PM to me, trying to justify his use of abuse whilst continuing it. My choice of language after the PM could most certainly have been better phrased but nonetheless it was painfully obvious as to what I was referring to.

As for why I mentioned that FireKitten is my better half in the thread in question? Had I not (and I have nothing to hide), either Masada or an acquaintance would have brought it up either as reported (like Moggser), or slung mud and .. guess what? We're right back to this point in time anyway.

In short, Pardu had tried to both justify his personal abuse and further it in PM to me, knowing full well what was likely coming his way. I found it hillarious in so much as it was a case of "talk about doing the most unfortunate thing possible in front of the wrong person". It gave me a laugh and it also shows the further willingness of Pardu13 to abuse another user. Again, that it was FireKitten is besides the point other than the amusement factor involved.

gerrowadat

Firekitten wrote: »

Yes... I remember that... Perma banned after offering you an olive branch to settle the pre existing animosity between myself and you Dave... I belive you laughed in my face when i tried to make peace... However, you don't need to drag this up... Although... This whole incident does stink somewhat of a previous trip to feedback with you and your boys Dave? I cant quite remember what it was about though?

You're right, this isn't the place to drag it up. You've been informed of the avenues for appealing the ban.

I did start a previous feedback thread about The Master, which resulted in him taking the feedback on board and changing how he did things. All settled. I don't see a connection between this thread and that. I didn't start this thread, and have no issues with Lemming.

Lemming

gerrowadat wrote: »

I only called him out on blaming an IRC server I run for enabling some grand conspiracy that supposedly exists against him and the OP. The OP of the thread in question is permabanned from this IRC server, and there's some animosity there.

The idea that there's a 'cabal' or team of people tag-teaming him with abuse is all in his head, I'm afraid.

So you deny that yourself and others closely associated to you have frequently engaged in character assassination on the IAA's official IRC server perceivedly (amateurs) behind my back? Funny that .... cause you've [plural] been doing it to my face for months.

That's the problem with the internet ... it's all in writing.

Firekitten

Get better glasses please....

anyway, this is no place, as we both agree for this topic... I think its best if we deflate the issue and leave it alone...

gerrowadat

Lemming wrote: »

So you deny that yourself and others closely associated to you have frequently engaged in character assassination on the IAA's official IRC server perceivedly (amateurs) behind my back? Funny that .... cause you've [plural] been doing it to my face for months.

That's the problem with the internet ... it's all in writing.

fwiw, talking about banned users is now prohibited on the channel. It clearly matters enough to you guys that you're prepared to circumvent bans and get logs off other channel users, but I honestly have better things to be doing than making sure everyone is nice to everyone at all times.

I also fail to see how this is relevant to the thread.

Funbags Freddie

Lemming wrote: »

No problems. I did mention it, although it's quite easily lost in that whopper of a post. Here's the part where I touched on the PM.



In short, Pardu had tried to both justify his personal abuse and further it in PM to me, knowing full well what was likely coming his way. I found it hillarious in so much as it was a case of "talk about doing the most unfortunate thing possible in front of the wrong person". It gave me a laugh and it also shows the further willingness of Pardu13 to abuse another user. Again, that it was FireKitten is besides the point other than the amusement factor involved.

You did mention the PM. I read that. You don't justify your publishing the PM or explaining why? Just mentioning it is not much to go on. Is it not against the spirit of boards?

bfywlckthd

Lemming

gerrowadat wrote: »

fwiw, talking about banned users is now prohibited on the channel. It clearly matters enough to you guys that you're prepared to circumvent bans and get logs off other channel users, but I honestly have better things to be doing than making sure everyone is nice to everyone at all times.

I also fail to see how this is relevant to the thread.

I have received zero - reread that; "zero" logs from any other user. All the logs I have are my own. But to answer your final question; it's entirely relevant to showing the background and ulterior motive that spawned this thread.

I'll also point out that your prohibition is an act of bolting the stable door after the horse has fled. Token at best and damage already done. You'll pardon me if I'm not jumping up and down in praise from the man who accused my other half of being a gold digger and I of being some dumb sap in so many words, to my face. And yes I have that in writing.

AlternateID

Lemming wrote: »

I have banned AlternateID before for similar behaviour. He had no excuse and is indeed fortunate that I did not hand out a heavier sentence in that account.

Really? You banned me before? This is my first ban as far as I know.

As I said in another thread I've no problem with the ban imposed on me. My post did breach the rules. My only issue is the PM you posted publicly. It may of course be gone by now. I cant check.

Lemming

Funbags Freddie wrote: »

You did mention the PM. I read that. You don't justify your publishing the PM or explaining why? Just mentioning it is not much to go on. Is it not against the spirit of boards?

Sorry, thought I'd made it a bit clearer. I published the PM to show the further level of personal abuse being engaged in by Pardu, and his willingness to do so.

gerrowadat

Firekitten wrote: »

To be honest, i dont see a point in apealing to a band of hawks member, regarding a ban by a band of hawks member... on the band of hawks irc.... sorry, the IAA irc... When the Chairman of the IAA bans people out of personal spite, I'm quite suprised you've managed to keep the IAA afloat...

You were banned due to numerous complaints about personal abuse of other users. Some of these were hawks, some weren't. This was reinforced by personal abuse I suffered from you as well.

anyway, this is no place, as we both agree for this topic... I think its best if we deflate the issue and leave it alone...

Oh, I see what you did there. Bringing up the old chestnut you recycled on the channel over an over, where you called my partner a blow-up doll. That, and calling me a racist, and calling me a 'grudge-holding bastard' when I refused to immediately accept your apology, when it was clear it was not meant sincerely.

Oh, whoops, sorry, forgot you were the victim here.

Firekitten

I belive the grude comment came after you laughed in my face... In your own logs...

Look Dave, This isn't about us, you brought me up, and you seem to be using the fact you banned me to discolour this thread... Its not on topic, and while we all deviated for a bit, i think we all need to turn around and stick to what is important here... the topic at hand.

gerrowadat

Firekitten wrote: »

I belive the grude comment came after you laughed in my face... In your own logs...

Look Dave, This isn't about us, you brought me up, and you seem to be using the fact you banned me to discolour this thread... Its not on topic, and while we all deviated for a bit, i think we all need to turn around and stick to what is important here... the topic at hand.

Anything for a quiet life.

gandalf

Lads & Lassie I suggest you sort out your IRC issues away from here. None of you are doing yourselves any favours.

Dave as an aside I would be extremely disappointed if its confirmed that the IAA are hosting an IRC Server that is being used by a few users to subvert moderating on another site and from what I am hearing latent bullying. I will be putting a motion at the next AGM to discontinue this service as I believe the misuse of it by users could diminish and damage the organisation.