On TV tonight! - BBC's "PS3 failure" report

irishman123

Sony has issued a pre-emptive and overwhelming defence of PlayStation 3 ahead of a BBC Watchdog show tonight.
The television programme will focus on the hardware failure rate of the console and the so-called "yellow light of death", as well as highlight Sony's apparent refusal to fix the broken machines.
In response, Sony has written an enormous six-page document - reprinted exclusively on GamesIndustry.biz - that questions the validity and accuracy of the Watchdog report.
"From the correspondence to date, I have serious concerns as to the accuracy of these allegations and the likely tone of the Watchdog report," wrote Ray Maguire, MD of Sony UK, in response to Watchdog's allegations.
"The information that you have provided suggests a fundamental misunderstanding of the technical issues and a mis-characterisation of SCEUK’s Out of Warranty repairs policy."
Head over to GamesIndustry.biz for the full and exhaustive report.


http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/bbcs-ps3-failure-report-under-fire

Ed_

Not Watchdog :eek:

Does anyone really care about what that programme has to say.

Rev. Kitchen

Cantdo any harm in giving Sony a nudge to treat its customers a bit better

noodler

Rev. Kitchen wrote: »

Cantdo any harm in giving Sony a nudge to treat its customers a bit better

Agreed, even if Sony were perfect, a kick up the ass can't hurt.

Ed_

Will Sony really care what this programme has to say. They are questioning it's validity.

noodler

Ed_ wrote: »

Will Sony really care what this programme has to say. They are questioning it's validity.

Yep, any bad publicity is something for a company to care about.

A BBC programme has a little more standing the the moans of a few people in a forum.

Whilst I would never compare the failure rate of the PS3 to the 360, I do think it is ridiculous that a machine can be purchased for 600e (downwards) and only be gaurenteed for a year.

Should be two years min for me.

irishman123

Ed_ wrote: »

Will Sony really care what this programme has to say.

They care - That's why they wrote a 6 page document to the BBC in defence of the PS3! Click the link to read.........

http://www.gamesindustry.biz/articles/sony-tackles-bbc-over-ps3-failure-report

Rev. Kitchen

noodler wrote: »

Yep, any bad publicity is something for a company to care about.

A BBC programme has a little more standing the the moans of a few people in a forum.

Whilst I would never compare the failure rate of the PS3 to the 360, I do think it is ridiculous that a machine can be purchased for 600e (downwards) and only be gaurenteed for a year.

Should be two years min for me.

+1

Companies have been getting away with this for too long laws need to be made and not just the vague laws we have with terms that can be interpeded differently. It needs to state that a product should last for its expected life time. If sony come out and say the PS3's life span should be 10 years then its reasonable to expect your machine to last more than 1 tenth of that time scale.

Ed_

noodler wrote: »

Should be two years min for me.

Does European law not state it is two years.

projectmayhem

Ed_ wrote: »

Does European law not state it is two years.

Yes but Irish law doesn't comply with that, so to enact EU law you have to first sue the Irish government, AFAIK.

Irish and UK law states a product needs to last a satisfactory amount of time, which is decided by the manufacturer. By default, they all pick 1 year. Some white goods (washing machines, fridges) last longer, and then others sell you extended warranty options.

Gummy Panda

projectmayhem wrote: »

Yes but Irish law doesn't comply with that, so to enact EU law you have to first sue the Irish government, AFAIK.

Irish and UK law states a product needs to last a satisfactory amount of time, which is decided by the manufacturer. By default, they all pick 1 year. Some white goods (washing machines, fridges) last longer, and then others sell you extended warranty options.

Its not decided by the manufacturer. Its based on reasonable period. Under the Sales of Goods and Supply of Services act, warranties are an addition to your rights and not a replacement.

Your guarantee is with the retailer and not manufacturer though. If the retailer refuses readdress, you can take a small claims action against them. The judge then decides whats reasonable period based on information such as cost and purpose e.g. a laptop has a one year warranty but no one would expect it to only last a year.

One of Sony's own sub-companies applied the 2 year warranty to all EU regions. Sony Ericsson offer 2 year warranties on handsets.

Back on topic, I don't watch TV so who is presenting this "investigation". I bet its Iain Lee.

dasilverfox

all i know is my ps3 is dead 3 days now after paying 630euro for it 2 years ago. and they want me to fork out another 160 on top of that. i'm sick. microsoft fixed my xbox for free after the red ring of death. so unfair when i really took care of my ps3.

rizzla

The parody video wasn't too bad. I can see it popping up on Joystiq or Kotaku, which will spread the bad press.

Would like to see the warranty extended.

Link to article done by Watchdog:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/watchdog/2009/09/playstation3_and_the_yellow_li.html#more

whiterebel

Why the hell did they go after the YLoD when the BRoD seems to have been much more prevalent. They really gave Sony an easy out with that one with the rror being non specific. Interesting that they say on the watchdog blog that they can't make any new allegations against the Playstation3. I wonder why.........?

r3nu4l

Sony will definitely care about this. A lot of members of the ordinary public take Watchdog very seriously and this will be major bad press for Sony. Take into account that they are in no way 'winning' the console war and don't have anything like the lead they did with the PS2 and you end up with a console whose sales could suffer very badly as a result of this show.

macpac26

I dont think Sony will suffer at all from the show. Of course its never good to get bad publicity but the statement that SCEUK came out with i thought was strong and an accurate reflection of the situation.

Hearing Anne Robinson saying "PS3" was quite funny though...its like she had to check her script each time before saying it.

Dozen Wicked Words

Sony will hate this kind of programme. Heading toward Christmas, Mammy and Daddy will be the ones choosing what to get little Johnny and are just the people who probably watch Watchdog, they wont bother their arse to read gaming websites or responses from SCEUK.

They will get him a console that probably has just as many/more faults than the PS3, but one Anne Robinson hasn't talked about.

norrie rugger

Would you think that for, less than 0.5%, Sony would just fix the issue FOC and make the problem go away?

Sony should know better, they have released a new version of the console at a new price, they are prime targets for negative publicity, at the moment

Clover

norrie rugger wrote: »

Would you think that for, less than 0.5%, Sony would just fix the issue FOC and make the problem go away?

+1 to that .

WolfForager

Can Anne Robinson blink? It's like watching a startled squirrel

Hopefully this will be the kick up the arse that Sony need to do a MS on it and give 3 year warranty.

amacachi

This is exactly the kind of thing that Sony don't want. It's still a bit away from Christmas but for the big presents it's around now parents will be starting to look, and the thought of paying 249 for a console with a risk of paying half that again after a year isn't what many will want.

All about perception, not reality.

Conor108

Has this aired? Or when is it on?

Kinetic^

Any videos of this online?

WolfForager

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRyRxKlo9-o

Liamario

YLOD of death exists. I think everyone can admit to that. But for them to imply that 0.5% is an epidemic is disgraceful. They then imply further that sony are lying because they only admitted to that amount. I mean what the hell do they want. It's scaremongering of the highest order that even your daily tabloid would be ashamed of (well maybe not)

jaykhunter

Liamario wrote: »

YLOD of death exists. I think everyone can admit to that. But for them to imply that 0.5% is an epidemic is disgraceful. They then imply further that sony are lying because they only admitted to that amount. I mean what the hell do they want. It's scaremongering of the highest order that even your daily tabloid would be ashamed of (well maybe not)

Agreed Liamario. This is just a scandalous piece of libel. I could go out onto the street and find 3 people with faulty HDTVs and scream bloody murder, but this just paints an unjust view of the PS3.

I DON'T own a PS3, but as a gamer, I'm disgusted that the cynical, derisive and condescending view of the media is also laced with slander and out-and-out lies. Sony should be proud that their hardware - which is an amazing technical machine - has such a low failure rate.

Making a company aware of it's problems is one thing, but propagating lies to do it is another. Scandalmongers, that's all Watchdog are.

Just some other musings :

1st off, I don't appreciate the derisive, condescending tone in which she lists off the PS3 attributes. I don't appreciate how the media and general public views & talks about games, and movies of a non-drama nature, for that matter. Anyway...

OK, let's say Sony has sold 24,000,000 units. And 0.5% (at a maximum) have failed - that's 120,000.

£400, eh? The slimline, and all models now, cost £249 or $300, or 300 euros.

So you haven't backed up your media, and solely copied it onto your PS3? Or you haven't considered/tried to attach your PS3 hard-drive into your computer? That's just marvellous. You know you could just hand it in to PC World and they'll do it for you.

Liamario

It's like things breaking is a new thing. It's not like they broke a month in or something. I have a PS3 and it has started to play up recently, I'm not happy about it, but it's nearly 3 years old and getting regular use. I don't expect sony to have an unlimited warranty on the console. Even the repairs they charge us for are costing them money. I mean what the hell do they want from Sony. A personal PS3 caretaker? Jog on. If it has broken it's probably cause I didn't clean the vents often enough or at all to be honest.
I'm sure there are many PS3s that have failed due to hardware issues, but I definitely don't equate that to some serious manufacturing fault in all consoles

Gummy Panda

For a consumer watchdog show they give bad consumer advice. Why pay sony or go to these repair places? You guarantee is with the retailer.

I have my ps3 about 2 years and not a problem with it. If it died soon, I'd buy a ps3 slim without worries. I've never had a sony playstation fail on me, even the phat ps2.

Best build quality in a console was original xbox for me. That thing could take a bullet.

rizzla

Why is there so much love for Sony? All they want from you as a consumer is your money.

If there is such a small failure rate and Sony make plenty of money why don't they just extend the warranty to cover such faults? I thought it was disgracful that 1 of the chaps paid to have it repaired and then only recieved a 3 month warranty on the repaired console only for it to breakdown again after the 3 months.

Don't see how people can be upset, it's bringing forward a problem which could effect any of us and it would be nice to have a reassurance of a more lenghty warranty.

mathie

Big thread on this on avforums
http://www.avforums.com/forums/ps3/1077566-sony-playstation-watchdog.html

GothPunk

rizzla wrote: »

If there is such a small failure rate and Sony make plenty of money why don't they just extend the warranty to cover such faults?

The 'yellow light' can be caused by loads of different faults, some serious, some not at all. Dust build up inside the PS3 can cause it - in that case cleaning your PS3 results in no more 'yellow light'. It's not like RROD issue which is a specific issue with the crucial components coming free from the motherboard. It's difficult then with the yellow light to separate a fault that originated during manufacture and one that was/is caused by the user.

rizzla wrote: »

I thought it was disgracful that 1 of the chaps paid to have it repaired and then only recieved a 3 month warranty on the repaired console only for it to breakdown again after the 3 months.

That was a hypothetical situation, he didn't say it actually happened.

rizzla wrote: »

Don't see how people can be upset, it's bringing forward a problem which could effect any of us and it would be nice to have a reassurance of a more lenghty warranty.

I don't understand why people are pushed for a warranty - the law protects the consumer here and their contract with the retailer, it has nothing to do with the manufacturer. Just because Microsoft offer a 3 year warranty (which only covers RROD/E74 for 3 years, any other issue is 1 year standard warranty) does not make that the new industry standard. Microsoft were forced into that position as there were class actions suits being considered in the States back when Microsoft was denying RROD existed and fobbed people off with 'things break'.

noodler

I still maintain a 1 year warranty is far too low for the pries involved especially with all this 10 yr plan crap.

What does a warranty of 3 months on refurbs tell you about Sony's confidence in their own repairs by the way?

Liamario

noodler wrote: »

I still maintain a 1 year warranty is far too low for the pries involved especially with all this 10 yr plan crap.

What does a warranty of 3 months on refurbs tell you about Sony's confidence in their own repairs by the way?

Well that is a fair point. But I think your point refers to all electronics in general. Why would a company want to give the customer more than what they have to give them. They are fulfilling their legal obligations and I honestly feel their failure rate if accurate is perfectly reasonable

Gummy Panda

noodler wrote: »

I still maintain a 1 year warranty is far too low for the pries involved especially with all this 10 yr plan crap.

What does a warranty of 3 months on refurbs tell you about Sony's confidence in their own repairs by the way?

It just standard practice tbh.

All companies give remainder of warranty or 90 day same fault warranty as standard.

noodler

I feel that games consoles, since the introduction of disc drives, are a special case. They seem to break down alot more often than most consumer electrics.

amacachi

noodler wrote: »

I feel that games consoles, since the introduction of disc drives, are a special case. They seem to break down alot more often than most consumer electrics.

Massive plus 1 on that.

GothPunk

noodler wrote: »

I feel that games consoles, since the introduction of disc drives, are a special case. They seem to break down alot more often than most consumer electrics.

I'm not so sure, I mean if the UK has 2.5 million PS3's, that is 2.5 million consumer electronic devices that are almost identical (bar some smaller components in some of the later models). Is there any specific DVD player or CD Walkman model owned by that many people? I doubt it. A 0.5% failure rate on a DVD player owned by 200,000 people wouldn't get a segment on Watchdog, but because the PS3 is owned by so many people it makes it seem like a bigger issue than it really is. Do we even know the failure rates of other complex consumer electronic devices to make a comparison? You also need to make a comparison between consoles and devices of simlilar complexity (e.g. with moving parts, lasers, CPU/GPU, hard drive etc). Then we can speculate as to the relaibility of the PS3 in comparison to other consumer electronic devices.

Gummy Panda

iirc the fail rate on electronics is expected around 5%

super_metroid

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aRyRxKlo9-o

Kinetic^

Was there anything like this from Watchdog about the Xbox 360?


I know you're saying 0.5% but when someone goes on TV and says 12,500 then people will sit up and take notice.

The one with consoles is that most of the general public don't really give a toss. If something like this happened with everyone's TV/washing machine there would be an uproar but because it's just a gaming console it gets brushed under the carpet.

The only thing we have to look forward to is that this will probably be the last generation that has games on disk and hopefully the next lot will have SSDs in them. I'd be surprised if they even had an optical drive on them. Blu-ray will probably have come down in price but VOD will probably have kicked off even more at that stage.

cabrwab

Watched the Youtube Vid there,

I have to laugh at the bloke, all my photos where stored on there, well aren't you a fool for only putting them on there in the first place if there that important to you!!

Just wondering how hard/easy is it to retrive photos off the hard drive, surely it can't be too much harder then a pc, get the right connection to usb and away you go no?
Haven't tried with the PS3 so don't know.
Done it with a PC hard drive time consuming yeah!

2nd the lads fixing with there easy fix how much are they costing?

3rd the self confesed Xbox fan presenter, never mentioning the red ring of death,
The way they made 11 ill repeat that 11 playstations look like there was a que of hundreds outside the van.

4th i work alot with av equipment and alot of refurb stock comes with 3months warrenty, its being used before god only knows what else can go wrong, how its being used or abused previously.

There is something wrong with EVERY product you buy, you will never ever have 100% customer satisfaction with mass production (different shifts in factorys, shipping, incorrect usuage by end user) things go wrong too many factors.

No i shouldn't be happy with it, but i have read people having YLOD after firmware updates, buying new games, shutting the system down wrong, overheating the system, which one is it?!!! Ill try avoid if i can!

I got my playstation 1 in 1999, 2 friends got them this time aswell, 1 started giving trouble alot the other one from time to time (2/3rd's failure rate?!!), mine still working,
playstation 2 2002, still working,
Xbox 2005 seems to still be going! (haven't being near it in years!)
ps3 2007 its going fine at the moment, however after a recent cleaning by my OH it sent the fan into over drive but a good hoovering out solved the problem.

I think with the PS3 you need to quit the games properly, and shut down the system, not just flick it off.
It is a great home entertainment system still in my eyes but the more use something gets the more likely it will fail.

Heck even the type of power going to a machine can damage it, and i've seen it between power surge and dirty power ruining things.

Yes iam a fanboy i enjoy my playstation, i couldn't be bothered having 2systems pretty similar in the same house again, no point IMO.
If my PS3 breaks i will do one of two things.

Get it repaired or buy the new one!!

Loose for me win for sony, there a bloody company to make profit not a charity same with microsoft and apple etc...
RROD was a similar situation but with a higher failure rate from the start.
I'd like to see the full numbers for YLOD before i jump away from the PS3.

bad form sony don't do something a little easier to help there own situation, customer pays for delivary charges of PS3.

Found a little strange that there was no mention of " well microsoft found itself in a similar situation and helped its customers out. Can sony not do the same?"
Think it would have helped there case to push sony to do something for free!

noodler

cabrwab wrote: »

I think with the PS3 you need to quit the games properly, and shut down the system, not just flick it off.

Anyone who turns there ps3/ps2 off at the back without shutting it down is a bit stupid.

cabrwab

noodler wrote: »

Anyone who turns there ps3/ps2 off at the back without shutting it down is a bit stupid.

Agree 100%,
But i know people that do just that, with the PS2:rolleyes:

TestTransmission

Gummy Panda wrote: »

iirc the fail rate on electronics is expected around 5%

And accepted

irishman123

noodler wrote: »

Anyone who turns there ps3/ps2 off at the back without shutting it down is a bit stupid.

Unless it's frozen and you need to reset it!

noodler

irishman123 wrote: »

Unless it's frozen and you need to reset it!

Well even then I a fairly sure holding the reset button is okay, its just the turning it off at the back before it is on standby thats the problem.

amacachi

noodler wrote: »

Well even then I a fairly sure holding the reset button is okay, its just the turning it off at the back before it is on standby thats the problem.

What do you mean by that? I've tried holding the controller button when it freezes as well as the power/standby "button" and eject button because I was out of ideas. Not sure what else I was supposed to do.

noodler

amacachi wrote: »

What do you mean by that? I've tried holding the controller button when it freezes as well as the power/standby "button" and eject button because I was out of ideas. Not sure what else I was supposed to do.

Really? I have never had a freeze so bad that the reset button wouldn't work. Its called a hard reset I believe, you hold the rset button for 7-10 seconds and the ps3 will turn off (go to standby) after three beeps.

Try it next time if you haven't already.

amacachi

noodler wrote: »

Really? I have never had a freeze so bad that the reset button wouldn't work. Its called a hard reset I believe, you hold the rset button for 7-10 seconds and the ps3 will turn off (go to standby) after three beeps.

Try it next time if you haven't already.

I have, twice when exitting the browser it froze that way. Tried both the controller button and power button for varying lengths of time, up to 15-20 seconds.
Looks like you're just luckier than I.

noodler

amacachi wrote: »

I have, twice when exitting the browser it froze that way. Tried both the controller button and power button for varying lengths of time, up to 15-20 seconds.
Looks like you're just luckier than I.

Have to say I thought that wasthe whole point of the non-soft reset. I useit when the controller doesn't respons in the browser and have always gotten a result from holding the reset for 7+ seconds.

Must be just lucky yeah, many others been unable to get their ps3 to standby and hadto turn it straight off at the back?