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Fibre and Telecommunications Infrastructure

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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Reading between the lines here. It looks like the €38 million is specifically for roll out to "200 new sites" with support for remaining 1,000.

    It then goes on about Dublin, Galway, Limerick, Cork seems like they are fibring up the base stations in the highest population spots first

    http://www.btireland.ie/pr_2011_05_05_three.shtml

    http://www.three.ie/pdf/press_releases/2011/Three%20announces%20further%20EUR38m%20investment%20in%20Ireland%20with%20new%20BT%20contract.pdf


  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    eircom never sold fibre products ....or quoted ludicrous prices....and generally both. This has now changed utterly. Fibre based 'leased line' ethernet products are now available nationwide. They can offer 'up to' 1Gbit products in the strangest and most rural places now, sometimes fully uncontended 1gbit but at least uncontended 100mbit. Symettric :eek:

    Crazy per km 'tail' prices have also been eschewed in the main. In fact prices from say Malin to Mizen ( more or less) are quite reasonable sounding if you ever asked for a 2mbit leased line off them in the past.

    Oh, and they finally published a map of their fibre network. The map shows commercial sites ( not exchanges) too.

    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    eircom never sold fibre products ....or quoted ludicrous prices....and generally both. This has now changed utterly. Fibre based 'leased line' ethernet products are now available nationwide. They can offer 'up to' 1Gbit products in the strangest and most rural places now, sometimes fully uncontended 1gbit but at least uncontended 100mbit. Symettric :eek:

    Crazy per km 'tail' prices have also been eschewed in the main. In fact prices from say Malin to Mizen ( more or less) are quite reasonable sounding if you ever asked for a 2mbit leased line off them in the past.

    Oh, and they finally published a map of their fibre network. The map shows commercial sites ( not exchanges) too.

    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network

    Well given the amount of money been spent by UPC on upgrading their network it makes sense as they have already lost a large number of home consumers to UPC (215,000 broadband customers). Of course UPC has come out an announced that 99% of their customer base will have a minimal of 20mbit/s -- I got a free upgrade to 50Mb/s the last day for example. The threat here of course is people disconnect their phone line and bye bye Line rental income.

    Interesting Eircom have signed their first deal with E-Net to provide backhaul access to a MAN. In this case it was for Birr but it's probably a harbinger of further backhaul deals in the pipeline. In which case it should probably lead to more competition for backhaul business between themselves, ESB and BT.

    Impressive map! Beats the days of having to live on an overpriced 2Mb/s lease line back to run an office back in Galway. Whereas now they have exchanges enabled for "Node Reach" in Ceantar na nOileán with potential speeds up to 1Gb/s


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    eircom never sold fibre products ....or quoted ludicrous prices....and generally both. This has now changed utterly. Fibre based 'leased line' ethernet products are now available nationwide. They can offer 'up to' 1Gbit products in the strangest and most rural places now, sometimes fully uncontended 1gbit but at least uncontended 100mbit. Symettric :eek:

    Crazy per km 'tail' prices have also been eschewed in the main. In fact prices from say Malin to Mizen ( more or less) are quite reasonable sounding if you ever asked for a 2mbit leased line off them in the past.

    Oh, and they finally published a map of their fibre network. The map shows commercial sites ( not exchanges) too.

    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network
    Interesting map!
    Part of that fibre network runs alongside the road not 40 metres from my desk. Meanwhile, I'm connected to the Interwebs via an O2 3G dongle. :mad:
    I presume getting connected to it is a bit more complicated than stringing out a bit of fibre and getting creative with a shovel???


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭yuloni


    This post has been deleted.


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  • Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 25,234 ✭✭✭✭Sponge Bob


    If you tick Node Reach to the right then the ones that show up are quite easily connectable to as it happens.

    If within around 1.5-3km and with ducting in the area they could show up at the house, drop in a fibre box and you connect a fibre to it. Then the link comes up at 100mbit symmetric (and uncontended) for around €1000 a month.

    If you think that is bad you shoulda heard 2mbit leased line prices a few years back. Double that price in rural areas per month.

    So a business on a 'node reach' exchange with fibre, many of which are very rural, can get symmetric fibre nowadays. Big improvement and eircom are not making a big palaver about it.

    Even if not a fibre can go 30km from a node reach exchange if the fibre is actually there


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,376 ✭✭✭ei.sdraob


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    If you tick Node Reach to the right then the ones that show up are quite easily connectable to as it happens.

    If within around 1.5-3km and with ducting in the area they could show up at the house, drop in a fibre box and you connect a fibre to it. Then the link comes up at 100mbit symmetric (and uncontended) for around €1000 a month.

    If you think that is bad you shoulda heard 2mbit leased line prices a few years back. Double that price in rural areas per month.

    So a business on a 'node reach' exchange with fibre, many of which are very rural, can get symmetric fibre nowadays. Big improvement and eircom are not making a big palaver about it.

    Even if not a fibre can go 30km from a node reach exchange if the fibre is actually there

    It is not bad when compared to old Eircom pricing, but the rest of the world has also moved on. And yes I am surprised to finally see some progress.

    10 eur a mbit is still an order of magnitude more than some of us are paying outside of Ireland (1$/mbit ) for several dedicated gbit lines, and using them 24x7 more or less to peak capacity


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    Sponge Bob wrote: »
    ...for around €1000 a month.
    :eek::eek::eek:
    That makes it somewhat uneconomic for a home setup then! :D

    Thanks for the info though, it's interesting to know what's out there.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Rovi wrote: »
    :eek::eek::eek:
    That makes it somewhat uneconomic for a home setup then! :D

    Thanks for the info though, it's interesting to kow what's out there.

    Well tbh that includes a SLA (service level agreement) guaranting the speed and uptime on order of 99.99% -- still overpriced in my opinion even for a business user.

    Given that Eircom have announced their push to do FTTC (Fiber to the cabinet) and FTTH (fibre to the home) you can expect considerably lower prices for consumers. Especially as they will be going head to head with UPC.

    I had noticed Eircom laying Fiber around Sandymount recently, all of their manholes have been sprayed painted with instructions ("Bare Fiber" etc.) so no doubt the first 100k houses will be those in areas where they should be able to get a large number of customers.

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/22898-eircom-100m-plan-to-bring/

    http://www.rte.ie/news/2011/0728/eircom.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Rovi


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Interesting.

    I see they plan to get fibre to "eventually 1m homes". I hear the Minister for the household tax talking about there being 1.6m households in the country, so I suspect that those of us outside the urban areas are still going to be a long time waiting for this.
    I also strongly suspect that Eircom's maps of this area are yellowed scrolls with cherubs along the edges blowing the 'winds', and with "Here be dragons" dramatically written across the centre. :D


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  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    Rovi wrote: »
    I see they plan to get fibre to "eventually 1m homes". I hear the Minister for the household tax talking about there being 1.6m households in the country, so I suspect that those of us outside the urban areas are still going to be a long time waiting for this.
    I also strongly suspect that Eircom's maps of this area are yellowed scrolls with cherubs along the edges blowing the 'winds', and with "Here be dragons" dramatically written across the centre. :D

    That is right, there are about 1.6million homes in Ireland, so 1million represents mostly urban homes in the 5 cities and some larger towns.

    However note those 1 million homes won't all be getting Fibre To The Home either, I assume most will only be Fibre To The Cabinet, with VDSL2+ from there.

    Why Eircom would even bother with FTTC in any area that UPC is present is beyond me. FTTC/VDSL2+ can only offer about 50Mb/s realistically, while UPC already offer 100Mb/s and can switch on 200Mb/s any time they want (There new DOCSIS 3 modems support 8 channels, but are currently only using 4, so they have well future proofed it).

    And to make it even worse, TV services will use up that bandwidth, where on UPC TV services are completely separate and don't use and of the internet bandwidth.

    Eircom really need to go FTTH in all areas that UPC are present.

    BTW This however can also help people in rural areas. While it is very unlikely rural areas will get FTTH for many many years, if ever. Fibre to within a few km + LTE * covering the last few KM will deliver very respectable speeds, if not IPTV service capable.

    * That is assuming Comreg don't feck up the LTE licensing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 6,007 ✭✭✭Moriarty


    ei.sdraob wrote: »
    10 eur a mbit is still an order of magnitude more than some of us are paying outside of Ireland (1$/mbit ) for several dedicated gbit lines, and using them 24x7 more or less to peak capacity

    Ballygoboreen is not telehouse in london or 60 hudson street in new york.. the cost of creating and maintaining infrastructure to carry that bandwidth to large amounts of the country is far from insignificant.


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,040 ✭✭✭yuloni


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Condi wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    The pipe wouldn't have a traffic allowance with constant speed of 100Mb/s symetric you could push about 60TB of data over a month (30TB up and 30 TB down). As mentioned it's symmetrical up and down plus there is no contention etc.

    If you ask them for a 1Gb/s link you would probably get it though I don't want to know how much they'd charge.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Upgraded my UPC modem this morning. I now have 50Mb/s down and 5Mb/s up. According to speedtest.net my speed test is faster then 97% of Ireland!

    1409014594.png


  • Registered Users Posts: 4,051 ✭✭✭bealtine


    dubhthach wrote: »
    Upgraded my UPC modem this morning. I now have 50Mb/s down and 5Mb/s up. According to speedtest.net my speed test is faster then 97% of Ireland!

    That wouldn't be too hard as a lot of Ireland is on NGB dsl (up to 8Mbs) and on crappy unreliable mobile midband with it's wildly varying speeds


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,630 ✭✭✭Plowman


    This post has been deleted.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Plowman wrote: »
    This post has been deleted.

    Well Eircom obviously funds it's work by itself. However it inherited a huge state built infrastructure. Most people don't realise but the goverenment did a massive spend on Telecom Éireann during the 1980's. On the order of several billion in adjusted currency. All of this was privatised with Eircom. The real issue for them is the "Local Loop"/"Last mile" which is all over copper phone lines. Once you get to the exchange though you onto Fibre.

    Well UPC have supposedly spent on order of €400m on their infrastructure since they bought "Chorus-NTL". The question of course is how much of this spend is on their own fibre ducting and how much is on entering deals with existing "Dark Fibre"/ducting providers. For example I know that UPC use the MAN (metropolitian area network) in Athlone -- it forms backbone of their network there. They probably also use either ESB or BT (or perhaps both) for their backhaul connecting the different towns they provide service to back to their core in Dublin.

    The state currently owns a fair bit of Fibre through state owned companies such as ESB (Telecoms) and Bord Gáis. There are also the 95? or so MAN's that were built around the country for the local authorities and managed by E-Net. If they put it together they would have a core of a network (backhaul and MAN's) to which they would then have to spend time doing the build out to end users.

    N.B. the more telco experienced posters like SpongeBob and BK will probably correct me on above if i've made any glaring mistakes/omissions/assumptions


  • Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators Posts: 22,540 Mod ✭✭✭✭bk


    dubhthach is mostly correct.

    Most of UPC's €400 million investment has been in their own network, they have their own extensive fibre network and they have also been replacing most of their co-ax cable with newer very high quality cable.

    Yes, UPC use the e-net MANS and BT backhaul to some smaller towns like Sligo, Carlow, etc. but in the cities it is mostly their own network and investment.

    You could say that the government is indirectly funding Eircom with almost a quarter of all phone line rental (most expensive in the world) paid for by the governments social scheme.


  • Registered Users Posts: 1,698 ✭✭✭D'Peoples Voice


    Am I right in assuming that the NRA has since closed gaps in the broadband network between Dublin Galway;, Dublin Limerick; Dublin Cork and Dublin Waterford. Otherwise what use is this ducting network to anyone. (and yes I know all about http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=347526)
    At a time when the NRA is strapped for cash, I would have thought this would be a real money earner for relatively little extra investment to complete the routes.
    Media,17149,en.JPG

    http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/ElectronicCommunicationsInfrastructure/
    Use of Underground Road Capacity on National Roads.
    Under the Communications Regulation Act, 2002, as amended by the Communications Regulation (Premium Rate Services and Electronic Communications Infrastructure) Act, 2010, electronic communications network operators are required to obtain the consent of the National Roads Authority before carrying out roadworks involving the installation and maintenance of electronic communications infrastructure in ducts along national roads. The 2010 Act also provides, inter alia, for the application of charges by the Authority for the use of the ducts.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Am I right in assuming that the NRA has since closed gaps in the broadband network between Dublin Galway;, Dublin Limerick; Dublin Cork and Dublin Waterford. Otherwise what use is this ducting network to anyone. (and yes I know all about http://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=347526)
    At a time when the NRA is strapped for cash, I would have thought this would be a real money earner for relatively little extra investment to complete the routes.
    Media,17149,en.JPG

    http://www.nra.ie/NetworkManagement/ElectronicCommunicationsInfrastructure/

    Well as far as I know the Ducting hasn't been used let, or if it has there hasn't been any news seeping out about it. This ties in with the fact that the state owns alot of fibre/duct resources but their management is divided up between multiple bodies. Éamon Ryan had proposed setting up a "One Stop Shop" where the whole lot would be managed.

    Most of this Ducting of course matches areas covered by ESB fibre ring -- which provides backhaul to most ISP that aren't Eircom.

    The gap in the NRA map at Athlone is actually spanned by the Athlone MAN. The logical thing would be to allow E-Net to use the M6 to connect the following MAN's together: Galway, Athenry, Loughrea, Ballinasloe, Athlone

    Likewise the Ducting in the M3 could be used to connect the following MAN's: Dunboyne, Dunshauglin, Navan, Kells (would need about 8km of new Ducting to connect Trim MAN)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Regarding the post about Laois (from back in 2002) that's obviously talking about ESB Telecoms network. Here's a copy of map from their site.

    NTFONMAN.jpg

    http://www.esbtelecoms.ie/infrastructure/national_fibre_network_and_MAN.htm


  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,912 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Sponge Bob wrote: »

    Oh, and they finally published a map of their fibre network. The map shows commercial sites ( not exchanges) too.

    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/eircom-fibre-network

    Nice to see that it appears my local exchange (no NGB and probably never getting it) is an aggregation note...


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    On the ngn-core page you can look at exchange maps overlayed on Google maps along with details of products available from Eircom wholesale.

    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/ngn-core

    ngn-core-exchanges.png

    Tbh other then maps I hadn't really fully look through that site till this morning. I see they have presentations regarding progress on what they term "NGN-ACCESS here:
    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/ngn-access

    Overview presentation here (dated May 2011)
    http://www.nextgenerationnetwork.ie/downloads/programme_overview/industry_overview.pdf

    All I can say is there definitely appears to be a seachange in attitude in Éircom regarding be open about this.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    List of Exchanges on first phase of Eircom proposed upgrade to FTTX (Fibre to the Cabinet/Home)
    • Mervue (Galway)
    • Douglas (Cork)
    • Dooradoyle (Limerick)
    • Tallaght
    • Ballyboden
    • Palmerstown
    • Swords
    • Donabate Co. Dublin
    • Clonee, Co Meath
    • Letterkenny, Co Donegal

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/23309-eircom-reveals-locations/
    Incumbent telco Eircom has revealed the first locations in Ireland that will benefit from a €100m investment in fibre-to-the-cabinet technology. Some premises will get direct fibre-to-the-home connectivity.

    Eircom last month announced an investment plan to spend €100m on the first phase of a plan to reach 1m homes with fibre over the next four years.

    They include communities in six counties across all four provinces, as well as major cities including Dublin, Cork, Galway and Limerick. Work is expected to commence this autumn and will continue through the summer of 2012. The communities include:

    Mervue (Galway); Douglas (Cork); Dooradoyle (Limerick); Tallaght, Ballyboden, Palmerstown, Swords, Donabate Co. Dublin; Clonee, Co Meath; Letterkenny, Co Donegal;

    Once Phase 1 is completed, fibre will pass more than 100,000 homes and businesses within the selected areas, providing speeds of 40 Mbps and beyond. The upgraded infrastructure will largely use fibre to the cabinet (FTTC) technology, but some direct fibre to the home (FTTH) will be used in certain areas.

    The locations announced today are in addition to the four pilot areas previously announced. They include Wexford Town along with Sandyford Village, Priory Park and Dundrum in Co Dublin.

    “This is the next step in the rollout of high speed broadband services,” Eircom CEO Paul Donovan said.

    “We have selected locations which have a geographical reach beyond Dublin and across the country.

    “We believe there is a strong appetite for new fibre based products and services that will be competitively priced. Work will commence later this year and we hope to have the network upgrade completed by the end of Summer 2012,” Donovan promised.

    Of course the real question is will Eircom even have the money to do this especially given that they could default on their debt. Going by quote above most of it will be FTTC (Fibre to the Cabinet) uses the installed copper to get to homes (think what UPC do with Coax).


  • Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭tvr


    Apologies for digging up an old tread. Is there a google map similar to the one dubhthach posted for ngn that details all the fibre infrastructure in Dublin eg.. T50 etc. If there is no online version, does anyone know someone who would sell an offline version.

    Thanks


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    tvr wrote: »
    Apologies for digging up an old tread. Is there a google map similar to the one dubhthach posted for ngn that details all the fibre infrastructure in Dublin eg.. T50 etc. If there is no online version, does anyone know someone who would sell an offline version.

    Thanks

    Well Inland Fibre have the following map on their website. It includes the T50 which they hook off.

    mapa.jpg


  • Registered Users Posts: 416 ✭✭tvr


    Thanks dubhthach.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,284 ✭✭✭dubhthach


    Big news obviously is the planned trans-atlantic Fibre Optic connection from "Emearld Networks" that will make landfall in Belmullet. This is part of a plan to enable less then 62ms latency between London and New York, I recall reading that each ms of latency saved can be worth up to $7m to a trading company. Obviously the latency from Ireland to New York would be even lower, probably in the 50ms range. The cable will provide for 60TBit/s of network traffic.

    The branch line to Iceland is interesting in that it will allow for "Green datacenters" via Geothermal energy/ambient air cooling.

    emearld-networks.png

    http://emeraldnetworks.com/

    http://www.siliconrepublic.com/comms/item/24814-us-300m-transatlantic-fibre/
    A major transatlantic fibre optic network will come ashore at Belmullet in Mayo in early 2013 that will link data centres in Ireland and Iceland with the financial capitals of Europe with New York.

    The subsea network is being built by Emerald Networks, which is raising US$300m to finance the project. The CEO of Emerald Networks Inc, Ray Sembler, told Siliconrepublic.com that a second phase after 2013 is being planned that could connect the network with countries in Southern Europe.

    The project, which has the potential to create hundreds of jobs in the build phase, could go on to help generate thousands of jobs in next-generation finance and digital media companies in the West of Ireland due to it being the last footfall between Europe and the US.

    Iceland enters the equation because, like Ireland, it is also a preferred location for data centres in terms of geography and cooling.

    The subsea network will be built by Subcom and PiPiper Infrastructure will handle the national dark fibre rollout in Ireland.

    Sembler said that, at present, marine surveys are being carried out on both sides of the Atlantic and construction will begin in 2012.

    Making the Emerald Express operational
    The plan, he said, is to have the group’s Emerald Express transatlantic network operational by spring 2013. With the speed and capacity of computing doubling every 18 months, the demand for transatlantic data capacity is expected to increase ninefold between 2010 and 2017.

    “From a technical perspective, the cable will consist of six fibre pairs capable of sending 100Gbps per fibre pair – that’s 60 terabytes of data.

    “Our plan is to start manufacturing and building the cable early in the new year and load the boats around May and June. The boats will set off from both sides of the Atlantic and meet in the middle. We intend to put the minimum number of splices possible on the cable but we will have amplifiers every 80 kilometres.

    “Our plan is to connect the data centres in Iceland and the data centres in Ireland with the data centres of Europe. A significant number of Fortune 100 companies are investigating establishing data centres in Iceland to take advantage of energy supply and cooling,” Sembler said.

    He explained that a contract to purchase the cable system from Subcom has been signed.

    The project, which has the support of Taoiseach Enda Kenny, TD, is being supported by the Wellcome Trust and global investment bank Jeffries & Company will help to complete the US$300m fundraising.

    The group is in discussions with tier 1 and tier 2 carriers, financial institutions, enterprise data centre operators and content providers whose need for low-latency data transmission is growing.

    The new data empires
    Eamonn Wallace, chairman of IrelandOffline, commented: “This is a great day for Ireland as this fibre cable will bring much-needed international transatlantic traffic to Ireland. The cable will be a low-latency cable and follows the 'Great Circle route', which is the shortest transatlantic route by far. This is the optimal route across the Atlantic and cables should follow this route in future.

    “Low latency is a key driver in international e-commerce and financial trading between major financial centres. This shows the importance of the west coast of Ireland as a landing point for transatlantic fibre transit. We in IrelandOffline look forward to more fibres making landfall in this region and to the region becoming a hotspot for international connectivity.”

    A report by communications technology giant Cisco earlier this week reported that cloud computing traffic globally is expected to grow 12-fold from 130 exabytes to reach a total of 1.6 zettabytes annually by 2015, a 66pc compound annual growth rate, according to the inaugural Cisco Global Cloud Index.

    Cloud is the fastest-growing component of data-centre traffic, which itself will grow fourfold at a 33pc CAGR to reach 4.8 zettabytes annually by 2015.

    One zettabyte is equal to a sextillion bytes or a trillion gigabytes - 1.6 zettabytes is approximately equivalent to: 22trn hours of streaming music, 5trn hours of business web conferencing with a webcam or 1.6trn hours of online high-definition (HD) video streaming.

    This is only beginning.

    John Kennedy

    There is also a video from INEX 15th anniversary talking bout this project, obviously before the had decided on landing in Belmullet, the tone in video though implies to me that talks were going on at the time between them and the Gov.

    http://media.heanet.ie/page/3782b92f2fb947a68f0e641e6c70b766


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  • Registered Users Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    dubhthach wrote: »
    The branch line to Iceland is interesting in that it will allow for "Green datacenters" via Geothermal energy/ambient air cooling.
    Would I be right in thinking that Iceland is quite vunerable to seismic activity and that would mean it is not a great place over a datacentre because it could be wiped out by a natural disaster?


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