Now you have a resposobility to vote no!

Jocke

Hello! I am from Sweden and I am sick of EU becoming a monster state like the Soviet Union with the Lisbon Treaty. You have to vote no again, not only for yourselves or for Swedes but for all people in the European Union. This no should be a reaction towards the system in which everyone aren't allowed to vote.

Stand up for your democracy (and mine) and VOTE NO!

A yes vote = a vote for a new Soviet Union

dr.bollocko

Jocke wrote: »

A yes vote = a vote for a new Soviet Union

Don't be ridiculous. How about you back up that rhetoric with any objections based on some vague form of reality?

ei.sdraob

1. i am not voting on opinions from people outside of Ireland

2. if you have an issue raise it with your government or start a local political campaign

3. what is your address i would send you a few history books to read up

4. if you really are Swedish then you would have no issues posting the same post in your native language

5. any country can withdraw from EU, Lisbon makes it easier, there are no Russian tanks to keep you in line like USSR

Jocke

ei.sdraob wrote: »

1. i am not voting on opinions from people outside of Ireland

2. if you have an issue raise it with your government or start a local political campaign

3. what is your address i would send you a few history books to read up

4. if you really are Swedish then you would have no issues posting the same post in your native language

5. any country can withdraw from EU, Lisbon makes it easier, there are no Russian tanks to keep you in line like USSR

1. Okay but I think you should vote as a reaction towards the system which doesn't allow us to vote.

4. If I would post it in Swedish, you wouldn't understand. I can "prove" that I'm Swedish:

Hej, hallå! Jag är svensk.

Mario007

Jocke wrote: »

1. Okay but I think you should vote as a reaction towards the system which doesn't allow us to vote.

4. If I would post it in Swedish, you wouldn't understand. I can "prove" that I'm Swedish:

Hej, hallå! Jag är svensk.

whats your IP address? that should make it a lot clearer if you really are from sweden.

and no one should only vote on the treaty itself. it is your government that didn't allow you to vote so do tackle your own government. say german's can't vote on any treaty because referenda are illegal there. are you saying eu should override a member state's constitution and make everyone vote on the treaty?

btw your english is perfect, well done;)

ei.sdraob

Jocke wrote: »

1. Okay but I think you should vote as a reaction towards the system which doesn't allow us to vote.
.

if you have a problem with your government or your constitution

then you deal with it

stop using our vote to solve your own problems

:rolleyes:

Jocke wrote: »

4. If I would post it in Swedish, you wouldn't understand. I can "prove" that I'm Swedish:.

go right ahead so please post in Swedish as well wouldn't do any harm

and im sure your ip can also be traced back and ensured its not a proxy on a server in a data center


I can also setup an ssh tunnel and post anything from another country (take a pick ive access to company servers in Germany, France, Netherlands, Sweden and USA) pretending to be someone else

Kalashnikov_Kid

I dont think youre going to endear yourself to anyone here demanding that we Irish have some sort of responsibility to vote No just to suit other country's interests. That fact that you use the term 'democracy' in relation to the above is also a little ironic.

We are voting for the interests of IRELAND, as prescribed in our Constitution which has allowed us to vote on Lisbon in the first place, not on the pretences of protest or whatever suits your agenda as an individual.

Jocke

You may still use your no vote as a tool for democracy.

If we were allowed to vote, even if I would like the Lisbon Treaty, I would vote no as a protest. Everybody should be allowed to vote, I would say.

OldJay

Jocke wrote: »

Hello! I am from Sweden and I am sick of EU becoming a monster state like the Soviet Union with the Lisbon Treaty. You have to vote no again, not only for yourselves or for Swedes but for all people in the European Union. This no should be a reaction towards the system in which everyone aren't allowed to vote.

Stand up for your democracy (and mine) and VOTE NO!

A yes vote = a vote for a new Soviet Union

Tull og tøys. Det er helt annerledes til USSR. Du har aldri bodde i et land i USSR så har ikke noe peiling om det.

Jeg er ikke Svensk men er Irsk og kan forstå alt at du skriver på 'ditt' språket.

Jocke

Justind wrote: »

Tull og tøys. Det er helt annerledes til USSR. Du har aldri bodde i et land i USSR så har ikke noe peiling om det.

Jeg er ikke Svensk men er Irsk og kan forstå alt at du skriver på 'ditt' språket.

EU är inte som Sovjetunionen än men det kan bli det ifall Lissabonfördraget går igenom!

Tarobot

Jocke wrote: »

1. Okay but I think you should vote as a reaction towards the system which doesn't allow us to vote.

4. If I would post it in Swedish, you wouldn't understand. I can "prove" that I'm Swedish:

Hej, hallå! Jag är svensk.

Heisan! Jeg ar norsk!! Had det bra! Except that I'm not Norwegian :rolleyes:

It is totally undemocratic for us to get involved in the ratification mechanisms of other countries. Talk to your government about it - it's nothing to do with the Irish.

Jocke, I can also understand everything you're writing and I'm not Swedish. So now you're saying that the EU isn't the USSR but that with Lisbon will become the USSR under Lisbon. Care to post the relevant article? Tack.

OldJay

Jocke wrote: »

EU är inte som Sovjetunionen än men det kan bli det ifall Lissabonfördraget går igenom!

Dritt og lyver med ikke noe grunner ellers.
Jeg tror at det umulig å prate om dette med ei barna.

'Facts'! Vis dem. :rolleyes:

ei.sdraob

@OP

if you were Irish

what exactly in the treaty would make you vote NO

it seems that not only are you jumping into the affairs of other countries you are also unaware of what Lisbon is and what are the main issue

P. Breathnach

This is an Irish referendum. It's not its function to give succour to Swedish dissidents (nor, for that matter, to British dissidents like UKIP). Find ways to express your political views in your own country.

Jocke

ei.sdraob wrote: »

@OP

if you were Irish

what exactly in the treaty would make you vote NO

it seems that not only are you jumping into the affairs of other countries you are also unaware of what Lisbon is and what are the main issue

The loss of national independence and the whole treaty. The whole treaty because the people of some countries already said no and it therefore belongs in the trash bin.

Tarobot

Jocke wrote: »

The loss of national independence and the whole treaty. The whole treaty because the people of some countries already said no and it therefore belongs in the trash bin.

Where in Lisbon does it say that we lose our national independence?

I think you need to go away and read the Lisbon Treaty.

Or try www.lisbonexposed.org.

Jocke

Tarobot wrote: »

Where in Lisbon does it say that we lose our national independence?

I think you need to go away and read the Lisbon Treaty.

Or try www.lisbonexposed.org.

I don't know in exactly what paragraph. I'm not a jurist. The Lisbon Treaty is over 3000 pages. If you read about the Lisbon Treaty though, you can see that for example Ireland and Sweden get forced to send troops to other countries even if we wouldn't like to do that.

EDIT:

2. The common security and defence policy shall include the
progressive framing of a common Union defence policy. This will
lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting
unanimously, so decides. It shall in that case recommend to the
Member States the adoption of such a decision in accordance with
their respective constitutional requirements.

Common defence to
be decided
unanimously.
Ratification by
Member States may
be deemed necessary

For example! Look at http://en.euabc.com/upload/readerfriendlybook.pdf

Jocke

Article I-41: (ex Articles 17, 21 TEU) are very interesting I see now. Very terrible. You decide. I hope you read through the whole Lisbon Treaty or at least the reader-friendly before you vote yes. Thanks for listening to me!

Good day!

ei.sdraob

Jocke wrote: »

I don't know in exactly what paragraph. I'm not a jurist. The Lisbon Treaty is over 3000 pages.

sigh

start here so

http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/

there are condensed versions available

prinz

Check your dictionary to see what 'unanimous' translates as.

oh and svenksa flikka ftw

Jocke

ei.sdraob wrote: »

sigh

start here so

http://www.lisbontreaty2009.ie/

there are condensed versions available

Yeah, I found another one. Thanks! I gave an example of an evil paragraph earlier.

marco_polo

Jocke wrote: »

I don't know in exactly what paragraph. I'm not a jurist. The Lisbon Treaty is over 3000 pages. If you read about the Lisbon Treaty though, you can see that for example Ireland and Sweden get forced to send troops to other countries even if we wouldn't like to do that.

EDIT:

2. The common security and defence policy shall include the
progressive framing of a common Union defence policy. This will
lead to a common defence, when the European Council, acting
unanimously, so decides. It shall in that case recommend to the
Member States the adoption of such a decision in accordance with
their respective constitutional requirements.

Common defence to
be decided
unanimously.
Ratification by
Member States may
be deemed necessary

For example! Look at http://en.euabc.com/upload/readerfriendlybook.pdf

We are dropping this little nugget into our constitution.

9. The State shall not adopt a decision taken by the European Council to establish a common defence pursuant to Article 42 of the Treaty on European Union where that common defence would include the State.

Conscription is another whopping lie as well. :rolleyes:

Also just to check, you do understand the meaning of the word unaminous?

turgon

This is great. I remember an "Italian" here, and a "Polish" person too I think, all demanding the same thing. However at least the "Italian" and the "Pole" made an attempt to write poor English so as to give credence to their supposed identity.

Jocke

prinz wrote: »

Check your dictionary to see what 'unanimous' translates as.

oh and svenksa flikka ftw

I know what it means but the commission may consist of evil liars and stalin lovers also.

mickoneill30

Jocke wrote: »

You have to vote no again, not only for yourselves or for Swedes but for all people in the European Union.

No. I don't.

marco_polo

Jocke wrote: »

I know what it means but the commission may consist of evil liars and stalin lovers also.

You really haven't the faintest idea of how the EU works, do you?

Jocke

turgon wrote: »

This is great. I remember an "Italian" here, and a "Polish" person too I think, all demanding the same thing. However at least the "Italian" and the "Pole" made an attempt to write poor English so as to give credence to their supposed identity.

Thank you. Really. I know you won't believe me but it is 100% true.

Jocke

marco_polo wrote: »

You really haven't the faintest idea of how the EU works, do you?

In many ways like the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany.

turgon

Funny as well how weve never had any foreigners come on here and tell us we have a responsibility to Vote Yes.

Tarobot

Jocke wrote: »

Thank you. Really. I know you won't believe me but it is 100% true.

What's hilarious about this is that you are 100% incorrect.

Jocke

turgon wrote: »

Funny as well how weve never had any foreigners come on here and tell us we have a responsibility to Vote Yes.

It's because foreigners want you to vote no. I hope that you will vote for the people!

Dublin_Gunner

Now you have a resposobility to vote no!

You have a responsibility to not post BS in an attempt to further your own political goals.

If Sweden wants to be further exiled form the EU, go for it. I really don't care.

Please outline your reasons for thinking the EU works like the old Soviet Union.

prinz

turgon wrote: »

This is great. I remember an "Italian" here, and a "Polish" person too I think, all demanding the same thing. However at least the "Italian" and the "Pole" made an attempt to write poor English so as to give credence to their supposed identity.

+1, strikes me as very similar to the comments section of http://www.bringganleyback.com, they seem to enjoy peddling this myth that people across Europe are behind the anti-Lisbon agenda, including bizarrely, Oleksiy from the Ukraine.

turgon

Jocke wrote: »

It's because foreigners want you to vote no. I hope that you will vote for the people!

What about Spain, who voted Yes to the constitution? Should I listen to them instead of you?

prinz

Jocke wrote: »

I hope that you will vote for the people!

I will vote for myself Olaf. Seems to me to be a tad 'soviet' to vote against my own wishes "for the good of the people"...

Mario007

turgon wrote: »

Funny as well how weve never had any foreigners come on here and tell us we have a responsibility to Vote Yes.

well i am advocating a yes vote and i'm slovakian, but i live here for 5 years...so i'm looking out for irish and european interests:D

Jocke

Dublin_Gunner wrote: »

You have a responsibility to not post BS in an attempt to further your own political goals.

If Sweden wants to be further exiled form the EU, go for it. I really don't care.

Please outline your reasons for thinking the EU works like the old Soviet Union.

I think that the main reason is that a few people are deciding very much.
To sum up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bM2Ql3wOGcU

marco_polo

The weakest of all forms of the 'argument from authority' is the Youtube version.

Jocke

turgon wrote: »

What about Spain, who voted Yes to the constitution? Should I listen to them instead of you?

You should listen to the whole of Europe and therefore, you should wait until all countries have had referendums until you vote yes.

prinz

Mario007 wrote: »

well i am advocating a yes vote and i'm slovakian, but i live here for 5 years...so i'm looking out for irish and european interests:D

All the more apt coming from a nation which suffered under the shadow of the Soviet Union/Warsaw Pact Bloc.

turgon

Maybe we should get Boards to design a plugin that automatically adds a poster to your ignore list if they claim the EU is the new Soviet Union.

Jocke

One of my main points is that even if you LIKE the Lisbon Treaty, you should vote NO for the sake of DEMOCRACY.

Mario007

Jocke wrote: »

I know what it means but the commission may consist of evil liars and stalin lovers also.

haha so all 27 states will nominate stalin lovers and evil people. and the EP will approve of all of them...i'd like to assure you libertas were defeated so no, this scenario wont happen:D

prinz

Jocke wrote: »

One of my main points is that even if you LIKE the Lisbon Treaty, you should vote NO for the sake of DEMOCRACY.

Say what now? How is voting against something I am personally in favour of... promoting democracy.

Galwaybuzz

Hi Guys.

Here are my top 3 reasons as to why I'm voting YES to the Lisbon Treaty!

I want an Irish Commissioner. With the Lisbon Treaty in force, this is guaranteed. With the Nice Treaty in force, it is not.

I value my rights. Dignity, liberty, equ...ality, solidarity and justice are the cornerstones of European civilisation and are enshrined in the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights. The Lisbon Treaty makes the Charter binding and part of EU law

I want ordinary people to have a greater say in the running of the EU. For the first time ever, through the new Citizens' initiative, the Lisbon Treaty makes it possible for a million European citizens to demand that the EU institutions consider a new piece of legislation. (TEU, Art. 11.4)

My name is URL

Bullshit like this will only drive people to vote Yes, along with the UKIP getting involved and the entire Coir campaign. Leave us to it

Can a mod confirm that this guy is in fact posting from Sweden?

Permabear

This post has been deleted.

Jocke

prinz wrote: »

Say what now? How is voting against something I am personally in favour of... promoting democracy.

Because everybody aren't allowed to vote. That is unfair and undemocratic. That's why you shouldn't approve the treaty, I think.

Dinner

Jocke wrote: »

Because everybody aren't allowed to vote. That is unfair and undemocratic. That's why you shouldn't approve of the treaty, I think.

That has NOTHING!! to do with the EU. That is down to each country. You don't get a vote because the Swedish Government don't have to!

And they're right too, you're advocating a no vote for the most stupid reasons.

prinz

Jocke wrote: »

Because everybody aren't allowed to vote. That is unfair and undemocratic. That's why you shouldn't approve of the treaty, I think.

That's not my problem, or Ireland's problem. That's Sweden's problem. Whether I vote for or against the Lisbon Treaty, what effect will that have on national/constitutional law in Sweden - none.

Jocke

Dinner wrote: »

That has NOTHING!! to do with the EU. That is down to each country. You don't get a vote because the Swedish Government don't have to!

And they're right too, you're advocating a no vote for the most stupid reasons.

Of course it is up to every country but I think that the EU should demand all countries to hold referendums.