Doughiska Schools

Bonzodog

Anyone seen the notices in Doughiska about the two new schools?

There is a planning notice at the entrance to Tur Uisce, for both schools. The Primary school is going to be 2 storeys, 250 Pupils.

The High school/College is going to be 3 Storeys, 450 pupils.

LadyMayBelle

Wow. It's badly badly needed. the nearby schools (Briarhill, Mervue, Gael Scoil Dara, Renmore and Castlegar are full to the gills and have waiting lists. It will take years of course to build, but at least something is being done

That side of town definitely needs a new school or two.

I think some of the city center schools missed an opportunity to do a land swap during the boom.

Zzippy

Bonzodog wrote: »

Anyone seen the notices in Doughiska about the two new schools?

There is a planning notice at the entrance to Tur Uisce, for both schools. The Primary school is going to be 2 storeys, 250 Pupils.

The High school/College is going to be 3 Storeys, 450 pupils.

Are they both going on the Tur Uisce side of the road? As in the waste ground between the road and the new park? I thought there might be one on either side of the road, or maybe I heard wrong...

gaeilgegrinds

I've seen those plans, both are going to be unreal buildings, as for the teachers, those jobs are already gone and plans well underway! Well needed and thus far an excellent system in place!

Zzippy

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

I've seen those plans, both are going to be unreal buildings, as for the teachers, those jobs are already gone and plans well underway! Well needed and thus far an excellent system in place!

If the schools haven't even been built yet, how are the jobs already gone? How can you recruit teachers for a school that doesn't yet exist???

Mrs OBumble

I suspect there are lots of people who've got the jobs in their own minds, and that there will be a feeding-frenzy of competition once they're actually announced/advertised.

That said, it is Doughiska so will have a higher-than-average proportion of children from NESB (non-english-speaking-backgrounds), I wonder if the great facilities will make up for the challenges this will bring.

Bonzodog

Both schools are going to be non-denominational, by the way.

I live on Tur Uisce, and there are a number of West African families sending their children to the Oranmore National schools, but its known that they are not happy about the fact that because both schools are Catholic, its being fed to the children, and most of the West Africans, whilst being Christian, are fundie evangelist christians.

My daughter likewise attends Scoil Mhuire in Oranmore, but I want her to stay there, so we are looking at upping roots and moving to Oranmore in the near future.

As for the location of the schools, well, I believe the primary is going on the land between the park and Tur Uisce itself near the back there, and the High School is going on the land between the new motorway junction and Tur Uisce.

I personally do not want my daughter in the new schools, as I believe they could end up being quite rough schools. The breakdown and mixture of pupils will make it so, with all the local traveller children attending there as well.

Zzippy

Bonzodog wrote: »

Both schools are going to be non-denominational, by the way.

I live on Tur Uisce, and there are a number of West African families sending their children to the Oranmore National schools, but its known that they are not happy about the fact that because both schools are Catholic, its being fed to the children, and most of the West Africans, whilst being Christian, are fundie evangelist christians.

My daughter likewise attends Scoil Mhuire in Oranmore, but I want her to stay there, so we are looking at upping roots and moving to Oranmore in the near future.

As for the location of the schools, well, I believe the primary is going on the land between the park and Tur Uisce itself near the back there, and the High School is going on the land between the new motorway junction and Tur Uisce.

I personally do not want my daughter in the new schools, as I believe they could end up being quite rough schools. The breakdown and mixture of pupils will make it so, with all the local traveller children attending there as well.

In fairness, the halting site is a pretty small one, the schools are hardly going to be overrun with traveller children. And they have a right to an education locally too. I'd suggest that going to such a school might be healthier for your daughter than growing up with your attitude to travellers.

Mrs OBumble

Bonzodog wrote: »

... I believe they could end up being quite rough schools. The breakdown and mixture of pupils will make it so, with all the local traveller children attending there as well.

What breakdown and mix is that?

There are a lot of very middle class people living out that way: no matter what their ethnicity these are folks who care about their kids, and the kids behaviour, and who want them to do well. Some of the African kids are energetic, I agree, but that doesn't make them "rough". Academically, I think there are some quite high aspirations around there too.

Xiney

I think going to a school with a mix of cultural, ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds is probably one of the best lessons school can teach a child.

Then again, I'm not from a racist family or country.

Greaney

Funny, I had been desperatly nervous about where I was sending my son to school. At first I sent him to a school (primary) that was considered "high achieving", well, he left it thinking he was dumb and with lousy self esteem.

When it came to secondary school the snobbery with other parents got even worse. I was up to high doh . I ended up sending him to a school that I thought would be rough because he was so good at art and boys single sex schools don't offer it in Galway (they have the rep for high achievement). An "A" in honours art in the leaving has the same points as Physics or Math too you know!!

He was happy there, was considered clever and well mannered and therefore felt good about himself. Some of the kids were hard cases I grant you, and the teaching faculty was, as a result, considered by many to be collectively one of most united, able, and experienced in the city. He may have gotten to know some of the toughest kids in town (with some of the soundest) but that taught him about character, other cultures, street smarts and cop on.

I knew many of it's passed pupils and they were proud of their Alma mater. Although it doesn't rank high on the league tables (due to the fact that they are mesured by graduates that attend University as opposed to just college, with Trinity college Dublin upping the ranking and so on), it does in fact have many kids attending college after leaving cert. My lads done the leaving, solid results and now in third level....

Go figure

gaeilgegrinds

The jobs are for VEC staff, overstaffed in most of their centres, some extra jobs will be available but not many.

gaeilgegrinds

I really can't get over the attitude of some of the posters before me. I went to a school with travellers, kids from other countries and with different religions, didn't stop me topping the points of all my friends in 'good' schools. What a load of nonsense!

mike kelly

Xiney wrote: »

I think going to a school with a mix of cultural, ethnic and socio-economic backgrounds is probably one of the best lessons school can teach a child.

It'll teach them to watch their back

biko

mike kelly win a holiday

Greaney

gaeilgegrinds wrote: »

I really can't get over the attitude of some of the posters before me. I went to a school with travellers, kids from other countries and with different religions, didn't stop me topping the points of all my friends in 'good' schools. What a load of nonsense!

I know Gaeilge, I unfortunatily had the same attitude as some snobby parents and I was proved wrong. Bottom line? It really does start in the home, if your kid is copped on, has a mind of their own, has some values and knows right from wrong, is loved and subsequently confident, they'll be grand!

I've been working with kids now for well over 15 years and in my opinion 90% of parents worries are just worries..... not fact based at all!!

Stevolende

Was wondering exactly where that was going to be after seeing the notice at the entry to Tuir Uisce a couple of weeks back. assumed it must be the fenced off site & just had that confirmed. Hope what has been said about one there and one on the other side of Doughiska rd is right.
It struck me that as it was a school located next to the park would have no room for expansion, which I would assume it likely to need within a few years. Unless it somehow expanded into the Merlin Park woods. & hope it wouldn't do that since there's little enough of them as it is.

Also looks like the bypass rd is just about to become extremely busy at the back of the point where the other school is likely to go. They've been building a junction on the motorway there for a while as I had seen before, but just got signposted recently. Not sure if that's going to have immediate effect on a school being built there. Would assume a high wall to be prescribed for that side of the school if that's where it's going.

Well, was just trying to work out where exactly that school was going when I found this thread so now have a clearer picture.

seriouslysweet

Seems they have started building, when is this school to open?

antoobrien

seriouslysweet wrote: »

Seems they have started building, when is this school to open?

The primary school is already open (in the prefabs) isn't it?

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

The primary school is already open (in the prefabs) isn't it?

Yes, but on the other side of the park.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

Yes, but on the other side of the park.

I haven't been paying too much attention to the plans but I though that's where they were supposed to be built.

anyhow, good to see something new & well needed opening up on this side of town.

forsaleireland

Bonzodog wrote: »

Both schools are going to be non-denominational, by the way.

I live on Tur Uisce, and there are a number of West African families sending their children to the Oranmore National schools, but its known that they are not happy about the fact that because both schools are Catholic, its being fed to the children, and most of the West Africans, whilst being Christian, are fundie evangelist christians.

My daughter likewise attends Scoil Mhuire in Oranmore, but I want her to stay there, so we are looking at upping roots and moving to Oranmore in the near future.

As for the location of the schools, well, I believe the primary is going on the land between the park and Tur Uisce itself near the back there, and the High School is going on the land between the new motorway junction and Tur Uisce.

I personally do not want my daughter in the new schools, as I believe they could end up being quite rough schools. The breakdown and mixture of pupils will make it so, with all the local traveller children attending there as well.

one solution

go back to africa

Mod note: user banned for this comment

fissureseal

Anyone have any further info on what s the state of play with the two schools ?? I see the residents of tur uisce have objected to the building of the new schools and have appealed , dunno will that delay things by much ??!!!

Zzippy

fissureseal wrote: »

Anyone have any further info on what s the state of play with the two schools ?? I see the residents of tur uisce have objected to the building of the new schools and have appealed , dunno will that delay things by much ??!!!

The appeal is based on the access road being forced through the estate, rather than using the corridor of land earmarked for a bus corridor in future years. Will mean chaos in the mornings for residents. None of the residents want to stop or delay building of the schools, just to have an alternative access put in place.

The Doughiska Residents Association (not the Tur Uisce residents - the whole area) held a public meeting 2 weeks ago about the issue. They delivered a flyer giving less than 24 hours notice to Tur Uisce residents of the meeting. One would almost swear they didn't want people to turn up.

The city council are fighting the residents on the issue - apparently its not ok to use a bus corridor for 30 minutes a day, but its ok to push a new road through a private estate and cause traffic chaos for residents :rolleyes:
Also, none of the residents were made aware when buying in the estate that this road would be built.

wet-paint

High School? What's it going to be called, DeGrassi Junior High?

When did that particular americanisation come in? It's a bloody horrible one.

Mrs OBumble

Zzippy wrote: »

The appeal is based on the access road being forced through the estate, .... They delivered a flyer giving less than 24 hours notice to Tur Uisce residents of the meeting. One would almost swear they didn't want people to turn up.

The city council are fighting the residents on the issue - apparently its not ok to use a bus corridor for 30 minutes a day, but its ok to push a new road through a private estate and cause traffic chaos for residents :rolleyes:

Yup, I've heard much the same thing.

The short notice was due to some deadline from the central government agency that's behind the funding - something to do with the public-private-partnership that's behind it.

Interestingly, though the bus-corridor has been in the district plan for a while, it's never been widely discussed in the city. Basically it involves cutting a wide road through Merlin Woods (one of very few green amenity areas in the east of the city), and cutting Doughiska in half. This will save buses from Dublin a few minutes only, given that there is a bus-lane on the bit of the Dublin Road that they'll be skipping. And it will involve putting yet another intersection into the already-dangerous are near the Merlin Hospital entry (the bus lane runs a bit to the north of the hospital, but comes out south of the existing exit AFAIK. There are some people think it's not actually a great idea.

Stevolende

Hadn't heard that, but sad to hear they're thinking of cutting into the Merlin Woods. From what I've seen there's little enough of that as there is.
Was thinking school expansion might be bad for cutting chunks out of them but a bus corridor is bound to be worse.
Is it supposed to follow the existing path or what? Can't see any other choice. & presumably connect to the road out of Merlin Park Hospital?
Couldn't they just connect with the road that goes through Merlin Park Hospital from the road near the top of Doughiska Rd?

antoobrien

wet-paint wrote: »

When did that particular americanisation come in? It's a bloody horrible one.

Sorry for ye but it's a common name for schools in the UK

Sponge Bob

No way An Bord Pleanála will let 1000 odd pupils get dropped off every morning inside a housing estate. The much smaller Coláiste na Coiribe complex in Knocknacarra was only granted OUTLINE permission subject to a new road being built into it and a Traffic Control Plan being submitted along with the full application.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/5168-planning-appeals-board-sanctions-secondary-school-knocknacarra

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/228/R228629.pdf

Not forgetting the even smaller Primary School in Knocknacarra.

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/220/R220897.pdf

And taking into account the concerns of residents of Fana Burca and Doire Gheal about the traffic hazards these would create within those two estates.

Zzippy

Sponge Bob wrote: »

No way An Bord Pleanála will let 1000 odd pupils get dropped off every morning inside a housing estate. The much smaller Coláiste na Coiribe complex in Knocknacarra was only granted OUTLINE permission subject to a new road being built into it and a Traffic Control Plan being submitted along with the full application.

http://www.galwaynews.ie/5168-planning-appeals-board-sanctions-secondary-school-knocknacarra

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/228/R228629.pdf

Not forgetting the even smaller Primary School in Knocknacarra.

http://www.pleanala.ie/documents/reports/220/R220897.pdf

And taking into account the concerns of residents of Fana Burca and Doire Gheal about the traffic hazards these would create within those two estates.

You would think the City Council would have learned from that example. You would think...

Mrs OBumble

Stevolende wrote: »

Hadn't heard that, but sad to hear they're thinking of cutting into the Merlin Woods. From what I've seen there's little enough of that as there is.
Was thinking school expansion might be bad for cutting chunks out of them but a bus corridor is bound to be worse.
Is it supposed to follow the existing path or what? Can't see any other choice. & presumably connect to the road out of Merlin Park Hospital?
Couldn't they just connect with the road that goes through Merlin Park Hospital from the road near the top of Doughiska Rd?

My understanding is that the school is planned for land near the end of Tur Uisce that's not woodland anymore, and hasn't been for a while.

It's quite intersting to look at Google maps in satellite view:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=merlin+woods,+galway&hl=en&ll=53.280919,-8.985701&spn=0.018295,0.052357&sll=53.273797,-9.05178&sspn=0.146381,0.418854&hnear=Bluebell+Woods,+Oranmore,+County+Galway,+Ireland&t=h&z=15

Trying to use a wider version of the existing Merlin Lane wouldn't work, I think - no benefits in doign that rather than the existing road.

Zzippy

JustMary wrote: »

Yup, I've heard much the same thing.

The short notice was due to some deadline from the central government agency that's behind the funding - something to do with the public-private-partnership that's behind it.

Interestingly, though the bus-corridor has been in the district plan for a while, it's never been widely discussed in the city. Basically it involves cutting a wide road through Merlin Woods (one of very few green amenity areas in the east of the city), and cutting Doughiska in half. This will save buses from Dublin a few minutes only, given that there is a bus-lane on the bit of the Dublin Road that they'll be skipping. And it will involve putting yet another intersection into the already-dangerous are near the Merlin Hospital entry (the bus lane runs a bit to the north of the hospital, but comes out south of the existing exit AFAIK. There are some people think it's not actually a great idea.

Yep, given that city buses take less than 15 minutes from Doughiska to Eyre Square, including stopping to take on and drop off passengers, there can't be much cost savings to be made by building a whole new road through a public amenity...

Stevolende

JustMary wrote: »

My understanding is that the school is planned for land near the end of Tur Uisce that's not woodland anymore, and hasn't been for a while.

It's quite intersting to look at Google maps in satellite view:

http://maps.google.com/maps?q=merlin+woods,+galway&hl=en&ll=53.280919,-8.985701&spn=0.018295,0.052357&sll=53.273797,-9.05178&sspn=0.146381,0.418854&hnear=Bluebell+Woods,+Oranmore,+County+Galway,+Ireland&t=h&z=15

Trying to use a wider version of the existing Merlin Lane wouldn't work, I think - no benefits in doign that rather than the existing road.

Isn't that map a few years old? Looks like what's now a green park area is still the wasteground it was about 4 years ago.
From what I understand the school would be going in the fenced off area between Tur Uisce and the park. Had been wondering what was happening with that since building materials had been visible in there the one time I was in Tur Uisce toward the beginning of 2010 and clearly still haven't been used.

Zzippy

Stevolende wrote: »

Isn't that map a few years old? Looks like what's now a green park area is still the wasteground it was about 4 years ago.
From what I understand the school would be going in the fenced off area between Tur Uisce and the park. Had been wondering what was happening with that since building materials had been visible in there the one time I was in Tur Uisce toward the beginning of 2010 and clearly still haven't been used.

Google maps aerial photos are a few years old alright.
I've marked the site and proposed access road and bus corridor on the attached map...

Stevolende

Right that makes some sense. The Dublin Motorway thing would pretty much line up with that across the land between the bus stop and that undeveloped area with the Doctor's surgery sign wouldn't it?
but only on a done deal basis, would hope there would be objection from a number of sides if they tried to do that.
There's a road they've been building that is on that line too isn't there. Is that just an access road to the projected school site?

Also noticed very recently that wooden structures that were in the park at that side had disappeared. Don't know how long after they went I noticed.
That's the semi-circular park on the Tur Uisce side of the fenced off road thing.

antoobrien

Plans for both schools can be found here - click on the view related documents button near the top of the page.

It appears that 3 residents of Tur Uisce and a representative made submissions on this.

Sponge Bob

Best thing to do with the road is drop it into a trench and cover it. Why should the Túr Uisce people have to look at a gridlock 3 times a day instead of a park when you can simply trench the mammies.

The Bus Corridor was supposed to go through Túr Uisce when they bought their houses.



City Dev plan 2005 onwards.

antoobrien

I asked Biko to release the lock on this thread so I could report some good news I came across for this project, So ladies & gent's lets try keep it country please.

Thanks Biko


There was a meeting on Monday between city hall & the some of the area councilors to see what could be done to address the residents concerns over the effect of the school on traffic through the estate.

A proposed solution came from the meeting:
An 8m access road will be built parallel to the proposed bus lane on Doughiska Rd, with traffic lights controlling access to the road with the bus lane having priority.

It's unclear from the article (p6 on this weeks sentinel) if this has actually been put to the residents yet - but it seems as if it's a good compromise.

It looks like two things need to happen (not necessarily in order):
the residents agree to this plan and withdraw their objection
the council vote to rezone the land necessary from open space to allow the road go ahead.

Zzippy

Cheers Anto, and thanks Biko for re-opening the thread.
That would be an acceptable compromise to most of the residents, I'd be happy with that myself. As long as there's no pedestrian access (back entrance) into the school from within Tur Uisce that would possibly encourage parents to drive into the estate to drop their kids close to the back entrance to the school it would alleviate fears of traffic chaos.

antoobrien

Zzippy wrote: »

That would be an acceptable compromise to most of the residents, I'd be happy with that myself. As long as there's no pedestrian access (back entrance) into the school from within Tur Uisce that would possibly encourage parents to drive into the estate to drop their kids close to the back entrance to the school it would alleviate fears of traffic chaos.

Tbh I don't know where the road is supposed to go (not sure where the school or the bus lane are supposed to be sited and the article was a bit vague) but I'd image that it would have to be to a front entrance only.

It's an interesting question though, as any pedestrian entrance would have to be included in the plans - I haven't read them so I don't know if there are any.

Zzippy

antoobrien wrote: »

Tbh I don't know where the road is supposed to go (not sure where the school or the bus lane are supposed to be sited and the article was a bit vague) but I'd image that it would have to be to a front entrance only.

It's an interesting question though, as any pedestrian entrance would have to be included in the plans - I haven't read them so I don't know if there are any.

Thanks, hadn't seen the plans before. There are actually two pedestrian access points inside Tur Uisce to the school site - that could be a disaster with parents choosing to use the estate rather than any proposed access road to drop kids off. It wouldn't go down too well with residents anyway!

antoobrien

Zzippy wrote: »

Thanks, hadn't seen the plans before. There are actually two pedestrian access points inside Tur Uisce to the school site - that could be a disaster with parents choosing to use the estate rather than any proposed access road to drop kids off. It wouldn't go down too well with residents anyway!

Based on the plans (page 197) I created this map on gmaps to indicate where I think the the road will go.

It'll be interesting to see how the plans might change as the pedestrian entrance onto the park will now probably become the main entrance for traffic.

It seems that apart from this access, there'll be the proposed main entrance and two entrances off the estate roads. edit: I'd say they should be consolidate to a single entrance between the two schools, but that's just me being picky

One thing that they'll need to be careful of (and I don't think this will endear me to the residents) is turning the entrances to Tur Uisce, the bus lane & school edit: from the Doughiska Rd into another Liosban/Riverside setup - that's a nightmare for everyone concerned.

Mrs OBumble

antoobrien wrote: »

Based on the plans (page 197) I created this map on gmaps to indicate where I think the the road will go.

...

One thing that they'll need to be careful of (and I don't think this will endear me to the residents) is turning the entrances to Tur Uisce, the bus lane & school into another Liosban/Riverside setup - that's a nightmare for everyone concerned.

Good work on the map.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean about the Liosban/Riverside setup?

It seems to me that pedestrian access from the estate would be essential: imagine living there, and yet having to walk all the way out and all the way back in to get to school!

Seems to me that a bit of heavy-handed management at the start could work - eg the school in Knocknacarra has a policy that any person dropped off by car cannot go in a certain gate. It's in the school's interests to enforce this, or they have a bad relationship with the neighbours.

Also worth noting that the existing temporary school has a policy of seeking enrolments from the area: no reason why lots and lots of kids would not be within walking distance.

antoobrien

JustMary wrote: »

Good work on the map.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean about the Liosban/Riverside setup?

To many junctions in too short a space, combined with inadequate pedestrian facilities (I hate trying to cross the road at Liosban or Riverside) and it being a royal pain in the ass for cyclists.

I probably should go back and edit the post, I was referring to the entrances onto Doughiska Rd - the school Rd, T.E. and an the estate the other side of the park. That'll probably be fine as long as the other side of the road remains undeveloped, when that happens it'll get messy if the entrances aren't aligned.
There's nothing worse than trying to navigate roads when you don't know where a car/bike will appear from and I don't want Galway to turn into the Urban maze that parts of Dublin are like.

They've an opportunity to set out a proper layout of junctions now to facilitate all road users, the current facilities and future developments. I hope they take a look at doing that instead of what they're having to do at the headford rd and change the entrances/exits and layout of the roads in the area of the RAB.

surime

Sponge Bob wrote: »

Best thing to do with the road is drop it into a trench and cover it. Why should the Túr Uisce people have to look at a gridlock 3 times a day instead of a park when you can simply trench the mammies.

The Bus Corridor was supposed to go through Túr Uisce when they bought their houses.



City Dev plan 2005 onwards.

I hope this road is not going to cross Merlin Woods? :eek:

snubbleste

Yes it is going to go through Merlin Park, that was always the plan. It is exclusive to public transport.

surime

snubbleste wrote: »

Yes it is going to go through Merlin Park, that was always the plan. It is exclusive to public transport.

Are you serious? Across to Dublin Road??? Is this what you mean? If it is I am absolutely shocked and if somebody is going to protest against it I will join today! They are going to damage the only green place in Galway?
I just hope this is not true! :mad::(:(:(:mad:

snubbleste

Did I just not say it was true? As I said it will be for public transport only and will be policed from the Council's traffic control centre.
Since when was the only green area in Galway in Merlin Park?

surime

snubbleste wrote: »

Did I just not say it was true? As I said it will be for public transport only and will be policed from the Council's traffic control centre.
Since when was the only green area in Galway in Merlin Park?

YES, you said, but I just cant belive it. It makes no sense, there is a bus lane on Dublin Rd and where bus stops in traffic is by Bon Secures Hospital.

I don't know since when Merlin Park is only green area in Galway -since I am here maybe? Don't know any other places, you can tell me the secret if you like.

(and even if its not in your opinion - it is a great place for people living in Doughiska, to walk with children with, dogs, there is also some wild life (foxes, many birds) -it is just wrong to destroy that!)

Zzippy

JustMary wrote: »

Good work on the map.

Can you explain a bit more what you mean about the Liosban/Riverside setup?

It seems to me that pedestrian access from the estate would be essential: imagine living there, and yet having to walk all the way out and all the way back in to get to school!

Seems to me that a bit of heavy-handed management at the start could work - eg the school in Knocknacarra has a policy that any person dropped off by car cannot go in a certain gate. It's in the school's interests to enforce this, or they have a bad relationship with the neighbours.

Also worth noting that the existing temporary school has a policy of seeking enrolments from the area: no reason why lots and lots of kids would not be within walking distance.

That would be fine if such a heavy-handed approach was taken, however I cannot see a school with as few staff as the dept will allow having the resources to police it. Its not a long walk around anyway, students wouldn't have to walk all the way to the main road and back in, there is already access to the park from Tur Uisce about 200m from the main road.

As for the existing school, the Tur Uisce resident did a traffic survey, and something like 84% of the students at the new school (supposedly from the area) were dropped off by car... the new proposed schools will have a larger catchment area so that number would be expected to be higher.