HPAT/UKCAT 2010...for discussion of all things related to this exam.

tallaght01

As the title says.

I'll sticky it for a few weeks. If it gets used, I'll leave it here.

tallaght01

I think it would be much cooler to call the exam PHAT. That's way more down with the kids :P

blankblank

Can i ask, is it possible to sit both the HPAT and the GAMSAT in the same yr? Or are they both sat on the same day etc?

tallaght01

I know very little about either exam. But I thought you had to combine HPAT with your LC, and you had to be a uni graduate to do GAMSAT

blankblank

tallaght01 wrote: »

I know very little about either exam. But I thought you had to combine HPAT with your LC, and you had to be a uni graduate to do GAMSAT

yes thats true, for the GAMSAt you have to have achieved a 2.1 in your degree programme, i was just wondering tough, if you are over 23, have a first honours degree under your belt can you apply to sit both the HPAT & the GAMSAT so as to have a chance at entering undergrad med and graduate entry?

Maybe a question to be asked in a GAMSAT thread as im sure these ppl will have looked into it.

tallaght01

Good question. Feel free to ask it in the GAMSAT thread aswell. BUt I was under the impression you had to do the HPAT within a certain period of time after the LC. But I could be totally wrong about that.

I'm sure someone will know the answer though.

HQvhs

Yeah, as far as I know the HPAT and LC have to be sat within a two year period of each other.

By the way, does anyone know the new points for med in 4th round offers, just out of curiosity? I know Trinity's down to 724, any news on any of the others?

blankblank

HQvhs wrote: »

Yeah, as far as I know the HPAT and LC have to be sat within a two year period of each other.

Can anyone confirm this?

Jessibelle

The Leaving cert must be sat on either the year of the HPAT application or in years prior to the HPAT application. Leaving cert points are valid indefinitely (or for however long LC points are valid) but the HPAT is only valid for two years. HTH

ZorbaTehZ

Davie89 wrote: »

Can anyone confirm this?

HPAT and LC don't have to be sat in the same year. The only stipulation is that the HPAT has been sat in the two year period preceding entry to a medical program:

In 2009, undergraduate entry to medicine for school leavers will be based on both:

• achieving a minimum of 480 points and meeting the minimum entry requirements for the programme in the same sitting of the Irish Leaving Certificate Examination (or equivalent*)

and

• completing the required admissions test (HPAT-Ireland) within the 2 year period immediately preceding admission to the medicine programme.

Source: www2.cao.ie/otherinfo/2009UGMedEntry.pdf

whadabouchasir

HQvhs wrote: »

By the way, does anyone know the new points for med in 4th round offers, just out of curiosity? I know Trinity's down to 724, any news on any of the others?

NUIG dropped to 712.This was the lowest I heard.

KevMed5

UCC is 715!!

Liamhan

First time posting so sorry if its wrong!
Looking for help/advice...Did UKCAT yesterday, got 715 average. Doing LC in June 2010. Does anyone know if its possible to do Medicine in UK without Chemistry, doing Biology, Physics & Ag Science. Worried I wont get a place in Ireland. Thanks in advance!

etymon

I recall reading on college websites if you are eligible to sit the GAMSAT (i.e. have 2.1 primary degree) you can enter via that route only
pity really although if yoe have done the primary degree you must be more than 2 years on from LC so HPAT useless anyway.
Wonder what the HPAT is like; what the big fuss was about it? Find it odd how some young people in the papers got 600 points and an average HPAT.

clartharlear

etymon wrote: »

I recall reading on college websites if you are eligible to sit the GAMSAT (i.e. have 2.1 primary degree) you can enter via that route only

I don't ever recall reading that. That would be a fairly strange stipulation. A degree is additional to the leaving cert - it shouldn't make the leaving cert points null and void.

pity really although if yoe have done the primary degree you must be more than 2 years on from LC so HPAT useless anyway.

This misconception was cleared up earlier in the thread - the HPAT must be within two years of going to college.
It also can't be taken before the leaving cert year, although it can be taken afterwards. They further specify that it must be taken at least two academic years (i.e. not transition year) after the junior cert.

I don't think that's fair. Why shouldn't 5th years sit it? If they do well, they can fully focus on points for 6th year, if they do poorly, maybe they can consider other options.

clartharlear

Can we try to narrow down the word "wide"?

i.e. any suggested reading that might in particular help HPAT prep. I'd imagine reading the National Enquirer wouldn't help much.

1. http://www.scientificamerican.com/

etymon

Maybe I'm wrong.. sorry. So I could just take the HPAT and add it onto my LC points and apply as a mature student? Hmmm.
Nearly sure I read on the college websites if you were eligible to go GAMSAT route you had to... but it doesn't matter, am taking the GAMSAT as did no sciences for LC.
5th years should definitely be allowed to take HPAT.
This is also interesting:
http://www.independent.ie/national-news/repeating-hpat-test-may-be-a-waste-of-time-1890287.html

So you are either an ACER candidate or you're not?
Bit harsh, although I'll repeat again, you would wonder what kind of student could get 600 points and do a crap HPAT. At least all 'smart' kids should be able to scrape an average score.
Maybe a chance to do in 5th year and repeat would make it a bit fairer.

Liamhan

My understanding of the HPAT (very simply) is that it is a test of your aptitude to see if you would make a good Doctor so in theory you can/could get 600 points in the LC but not have the right personality/character/approach to be a good Doctor.

bythewoods

etymon wrote: »

I recall reading on college websites if you are eligible to sit the GAMSAT (i.e. have 2.1 primary degree) you can enter via that route only
pity really although if yoe have done the primary degree you must be more than 2 years on from LC so HPAT useless anyway.
Wonder what the HPAT is like; what the big fuss was about it? Find it odd how some young people in the papers got 600 points and an average HPAT.

Definitely not true.

There's someone in my tutorial group this year (1st med in Trinners) who entered via the HPAT and LC route even though she already has an honours degree in Pharmacy

clartharlear

Liamhan wrote: »

My understanding of the HPAT (very simply) is that it is a test of your aptitude to see if you would make a good Doctor so in theory you can/could get 600 points in the LC but not have the right personality/character/approach to be a good Doctor.

Well, that's the theory of the ideal behind the HPAT. In practice, I feel it falls far short. They say that non-verbal reasoning skills are important for reading MRIs etc but I don't think Section 3 is really that relevant.
is to

Thoughts, doctors?

HQvhs

clartharlear wrote: »

Well, that's the theory of the ideal behind the HPAT. In practice, I feel it falls far short. They say that non-verbal reasoning skills are important for reading MRIs etc but I don't think Section 3 is really that relevant.
is to

Thoughts, doctors?

To be fair that's a very basic example. And the point of non-verbal reasoning is to examine your ability to spot patterns and think visually. It's an important skill to have as a doctor in my opinion anyway, particularly when looking at MRIs, slides, in surgery etc. Not every problem will present itself verbally or orally so you have to be able to reason visually also.

EJay

I don't know if this is the right place to post this but anyway...I'm planning to repeat my hpat next feb but I don't know what the system is like. I know that it has already been pointed out that there is little chance for improvement but I had always wanted to do medicine and I don't want to think back when I graduate that I could've done med if only I gave it another shot. I'm in first year pharmacy. Do I apply through the CAO again? Also, I'm not EU but I qualify for EU fees and I'm paying EU fees at the moment. Would I have to pay the full fees if I get in next year? Or can I continue paying the lower EU fees?

BTW, is anyone in the same position? Anyone repeating the leaving for med? HPAT and the leaving all together?Doing a PLC to repeat HPAT,etc.?

Thanks in advance for any info

clartharlear

HQvhs wrote: »

To be fair that's a very basic example.

It is, you're right. It was just the first google result.

And the point of non-verbal reasoning is to examine your ability to spot patterns and think visually. It's an important skill to have as a doctor in my opinion anyway, particularly when looking at MRIs, slides, in surgery etc. Not every problem will present itself verbally or orally so you have to be able to reason visually also.

Thanks for your opinion. I'd like to build up a number of opinions from health service professionals like yourself as to whether NVR is important enough to be weighed so heavily against memorisation of vast swathes of info (i.e. the LC)

EJay wrote: »

I don't know if this is the right place to post this but anyway...I'm planning to repeat my hpat next feb but I don't know what the system is like. I know that it has already been pointed out that there is little chance for improvement but I had always wanted to do medicine and I don't want to think back when I graduate that I could've done med if only I gave it another shot. I'm in first year pharmacy. Do I apply through the CAO again? Also, I'm not EU but I qualify for EU fees and I'm paying EU fees at the moment. Would I have to pay the full fees if I get in next year? Or can I continue paying the lower EU fees?

BTW, is anyone in the same position? Anyone repeating the leaving for med? HPAT and the leaving all together?Doing a PLC to repeat HPAT,etc.?

Thanks in advance for any info

ACER have said that there's little chance of improvement. But again, as with claiming that HPAT is "grind-proof", this is a self-serving advert for their own system and we have no evidence yet in Ireland. Are there any figures for repeat UMATs in Australia? I know myself, from doing practice tests, that my results vary wildly depending on my tiredness levels and mood etc.

You do apply through the CAO again, but I don't know anything about your fees. I can't see sense in a decision to make you suddenly non-EU a year later.

Liamhan

Just wondering if anyone knows how the HPAT / LC are used to choose students for medicine. IS it 50/50 or do you have to score a certain mark in the HPAT? Is there a website where the info is laid out clearly?
Thanks

clartharlear

http://www.hpat-ireland.acer.edu.au/

EJay

clartharlear wrote: »

ACER have said that there's little chance of improvement. But again, as with claiming that HPAT is "grind-proof", this is a self-serving advert for their own system and we have no evidence yet in Ireland. Are there any figures for repeat UMATs in Australia? I know myself, from doing practice tests, that my results vary wildly depending on my tiredness levels and mood etc.

You do apply through the CAO again, but I don't know anything about your fees. I can't see sense in a decision to make you suddenly non-EU a year later.

I'll take that as an encouragement for me to try it again..Thanks:) It's just medicine I'll put into my CAO then next year? If I don't get in, I won't lose my place in college, right?

Jessibelle

EJay wrote: »

I'll take that as an encouragement for me to try it again..Thanks:) It's just medicine I'll put into my CAO then next year? If I don't get in, I won't lose my place in college, right?

Nope, you won't lose your place at college, but you will be liable for fees for the years you've already done, i.e if you have completed two years of pharmacy, you'll pay fees for the first two years of medical school, if that makes sense?

clartharlear

EJay wrote: »

I'll take that as an encouragement for me to try it again..Thanks:)

Let me try to cover myself - I was implying a double negative - repeating is NOT proven to have NO change. The converse hasn't been proven either, but my feelings are that it's worth a try.

Jessibelle wrote: »

Nope, you won't lose your place at college,

true

but you will be liable for fees for the years you've already done, i.e if you have completed two years of pharmacy, you'll pay fees for the first two years of medical school, if that makes sense?

He's already paying (EU) fees anyway.

Jessibelle

clartharlear wrote: »

He's already paying (EU) fees anyway.

Are EU students not partially subsidized the first time around also though? (I'm not certain so could easily be wrong)

clartharlear

It'd probably be easier for me to be wrong!

EJay

Jessibelle wrote: »

Are EU students not partially subsidized the first time around also though? (I'm not certain so could easily be wrong)

I'm hoping you're wrong..haha:PIf you're right, I'll say goodbye to med school. In RCSI, non-EU fees for medicine were €43,500 in 2008.

Jessibelle

EJay wrote: »

I'm hoping you're wrong..haha:PIf you're right, I'll say goodbye to med school. In RCSI, non-EU fees for medicine were €43,500 in 2008.

Hey Ejay,
it's something I'd check to be sure, I was told by an EU student that they were partially subsidised, but that said, it may be different when you head back. And I hear ya about the non-EU fees, thats a deposit on a house every year for 6 years :eek:
HTH,
Jess

blackbetty69

whadabouchasir wrote: »

NUIG dropped to 712.This was the lowest I heard.

Dam, i had 708.. means i have to take the year out and do that test again next year but oh well..

Did ne1 do the ukcat this year?

cweeva

blackbetty69 wrote: »

Did ne1 do the ukcat this year?

I did... was very unprepared for it though, I didn't know I had to do it until a week before the closing date!
Went ok, got 662.5 average, pretty happy considering how little time I had.
hoping to do better in the HPAT though considering I have months of preparation ahead of me!
Anyone know how the UKCAT compares to the HPAT in terms of difficulty, time etc etc??

Purple Gorilla

Does anyone see any reason why I wouldn't be able to sit the HPAT in 2010 if I'm only in 5th year?

The HPAT License thingy lasts for 2 years after the test so I could take the HPAT this year, get familiar with it and then do it again in 6th year if I'm not happy with the results from the one I did in 5th year.

clartharlear

Purple Gorilla wrote: »

Does anyone see any reason why I wouldn't be able to sit the HPAT in 2010 if I'm only in 5th year?

The HPAT License thingy lasts for 2 years after the test so I could take the HPAT this year, get familiar with it and then do it again in 6th year if I'm not happy with the results from the one I did in 5th year.

Because it is verboten.
I'm in 5th form, can I sit HPAT-Ireland?
No, you are not eligible to sit HPAT-Ireland unless you have already completed your leaving certificate or are completing it in 2010.

Please be warned that when all candidates register to sit HPAT-Ireland they will be required to check a box declaring that they are either doing 6th Form in 2010 or have already completed it, or its equivalent, prior to 2010. They will also have to declare that they are a bona fide applicant.

A 5th form student is NOT a bona fide applicant.

If ACER is made aware of a student who provides a false declaration, their results will not be released and will be cancelled.

Purple Gorilla

Thanks very much for that

Does anyone know if the preparation/practice book for the HPAT that you can order now is the same test as last year's practice book??

jumpguy

I'm not taking HPAT this year (next year if medicine is still my agenda), so therefore I don't want to purchase the ridiculously overprices (imo) Practice Test. HPAT-Ulster has a free sample test. How similiar is this to HPAT-Ireland in terms of layout, types of questions asked and difficulty?

EJay

Jessibelle wrote: »

Hey Ejay,
it's something I'd check to be sure, I was told by an EU student that they were partially subsidised, but that said, it may be different when you head back. And I hear ya about the non-EU fees, thats a deposit on a house every year for 6 years :eek:
HTH,
Jess

I looked into that and found out that they're still subsidised. Now I feel more encouraged to apply again for medicine.

Anyway, I just wanted to ask if there was any chance in me getting accepted into a 5 yr program next year in UCD/RCSI even though I haven't done chemistry in the leaving cert(only physics and bio). Would they take into account that I am studying pharmacy and that I am currently studying chemistry at a much higher level than that of the LC?

burnsja

I'm doing the HPAT this year, does anyone have any advice on any reading material or where to get practice questions?

Jessibelle

burnsja wrote: »

I'm doing the HPAT this year, does anyone have any advice on any reading material or where to get practice questions?

You can order practice question booklets directly from Acer on the HPAT website. (UMAT Vol 1 & 2 and HPAT Practice test) from what I've heard these are the best as they're obviously the most similar to the actual test.

@Ejay, thats fab news about the fees As far as I know, RCSI just ask for one science subject as a maltriculation subject, so physics or bio would easily suffice, and the additional fact you're studying Pharmacy can only work in your favour!

JSK 252

It would be interesting to see a statistic of the amount of people who got their first choice medicine course with 580+ points. Or who even got offered a college. Im presuming its high.

NeverLupus

When do you sit the UKCAT, is is the summer before you apply to ucas, or the summer before you hope to start?

For example someone trying to get in for 2011, would they have sat the exam this summer or would they be sitting it next summer?:)

Jessibelle

NeverLupus wrote: »

When do you sit the UKCAT, is is the summer before you apply to ucas, or the summer before you hope to start?

For example someone trying to get in for 2011, would they have sat the exam this summer or would they be sitting it next summer?:)

You sit it before Oct 2010 for admission in 2011. It's something like 95 euros to sit and it's computer based afaik

Rosey184

blackbetty69 wrote: »

Dam, i had 708.. means i have to take the year out and do that test again next year but oh well..

Ya I had exactely 708 points aswell this year so didnt get any offers either:( Ive decided to do a sort of pre-med course in Beckett college Dublin for the year instead though (its a new private college which focuses on medical studies) Ill be doing a year studying all the science subjects and Im planning on sitting the HPAT again next year, hoping for the best! I dont have any feed back on the course yet as its only new but I think its my best bet as I didnt have anything else down on the CAO apart from medicine (i was very stubborn!:P)
It could be a good option for you too if youre like me and are dead set on getting into a med program!:o

Pamplemousse19

jumpguy wrote: »

I'm not taking HPAT this year (next year if medicine is still my agenda), so therefore I don't want to purchase the ridiculously overprices (imo) Practice Test. HPAT-Ulster has a free sample test. How similiar is this to HPAT-Ireland in terms of layout, types of questions asked and difficulty?

You should try the practice booklet and see how you get on. Everybody that does it though does much better in the practice book than in the actual HPAT. I'd advise to do as many practice questions as possible as practice actually does make a huge difference(despite what the HPAT website says!).
Unfortunately, the best way to do this is to do an internet course which costs about €200. I've known people who are perfect for the exam do quite poorly because of lack of practice. On the other hand, people who I thought weren't particularly suitable for the HPAT who did internet courses did the best out of everyone. It's fairly ridiculous and unfair on people who can't afford to shell out 200 euro. :mad:

lctake2

I know it sucks that people seem to have to do online courses but I don't think there is anyone that can't afford the 200 euro for the test that could then afford to go to college after. Even if you get grants and stuff you're going to have to pay at least that much out at some point

Bbbbolger

Went on the UMAT site and they aren't bringing out more practice papers until later this year. Anyone know where I could get a copy of last years papers now? I heard they're very similar to the HPAT questions and I want to try do as many sample questions as I can. Thanks

Anthony16

Pamplemousse19 wrote: »

You should try the practice booklet and see how you get on. Everybody that does it though does much better in the practice book than in the actual HPAT. I'd advise to do as many practice questions as possible as practice actually does make a huge difference(despite what the HPAT website says!).
Unfortunately, the best way to do this is to do an internet course which costs about €200. I've known people who are perfect for the exam do quite poorly because of lack of practice. On the other hand, people who I thought weren't particularly suitable for the HPAT who did internet courses did the best out of everyone. It's fairly ridiculous and unfair on people who can't afford to shell out 200 euro. :mad:

To be fair mate,200 euro is not much if it gets u into the course u want.Plus,if someone cant affoard to pay 200 for one of these course how are they going to pay the registration fee for college(1650). I would recommend that everyone does the courses as people seem to make huge improvements with them.There will have to be an overhaul though cos its just like the old system where people with money still have a massive edge

Pamplemousse19

Anthony16 wrote: »

To be fair mate,200 euro is not much if it gets u into the course u want.Plus,if someone cant affoard to pay 200 for one of these course how are they going to pay the registration fee for college(1650). I would recommend that everyone does the courses as people seem to make huge improvements with them.There will have to be an overhaul though cos its just like the old system where people with money still have a massive edge

200 euro is a lot of money to some people especially around that time of year. You don't have to pay 1650 euro if you're getting the grant. I think it's unfair on people whose parents are unemployed and stuff. It kind of excludes them from getting the course.