If the Germans won the war

Captain Furball

Wouldn't we all be grand?
No stupid debt bases monetary system.
We would have gone to mars and gods knows where.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

I assume they would have been nuked had D-Day failed, so no.

BlackEdelweiss

I dont think the allies would ever have agreed to a nuke being dropped on European soil so who knows!!! We could all be basking in the glorious light of the third reich, where men were men and women bore more strong men and women to propagate the future of the glorious reich and we would all live free, rich lives, except the slavs, the russians, the jews, the catholics, the gypsies and other non aryan folk but they would all have been killed off about 20 years ago anyway so the rest of us would be free. **** I'm a catholic so I probably wouldent be here either. I'm not sure if I wanted them to win the war outright but I do wish operation sealion had succeded, that would have been good.

mike65

Well the Nazi ideology would have won the day so I guess the Irish might have suffered a second major population thinning and the countryside turned into a weird mystic theme park.

Morlar

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

I'm a catholic so I probably wouldent be here either.

Not to rain on your parade but half the nazi party were catholics, including leadership like Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

mike65 wrote: »

Well the Nazi ideology would have won the day so I guess the Irish might have suffered a second major population thinning and the countryside turned into a weird mystic theme park.

... and we'd have had to hate the Germans for going on and on and on about how they won the world cup in 1990. Give it a rest - it was 20 years ago...

Still think a nuke may well have been dropped, though. I heard an urban myth that Potsdam was ear-makred as a test site and avoided being bombed until because the Allies wanted to see what it would to to an untouched city. Accuracy, obviously, is doubtful.

marcsignal

The Brits had an Anthrax Bomb which they had planned to drop on Germany should it look like they were going to lose the war.

Delancey

To the best of my knowledge Nazi racial ideology has us ' celts ' pegged as something akin to ' noble savages ' which basically means while we would have dodged the gas chambers we would be doing National Service in the Salt mines !

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

delancey42 wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge Nazi racial ideology has us ' celts ' pegged as something akin to ' noble savages ' which basically means while we would have dodged the gas chambers we would be doing National Service in the Salt mines !

... and we'd have moaned about the nationalzhealtzamt, the taxes, but still mined the blloody salt for them!

Dr Strange

delancey42 wrote: »

To the best of my knowledge Nazi racial ideology has us ' celts ' pegged as something akin to ' noble savages ' which basically means while we would have dodged the gas chambers we would be doing National Service in the Salt mines !

That is not correct. In fact, Himmler had a programme through the SS Ahnenerbe that studied Celtic history, language and mythology. Emminent researchers were sent to Ireland and Brittany to study there and there was even a very obscure "breeding programme" for top SS men which was to be adopted once the war was over. This programme identified suitable old burial grounds throughout Europe for SS men and their wifes to conceive children in order to imbue the conceived child with the spirits of dead Nordic warriors of Germanic, Celtic and Scandinavian origin. According to Ahnenerbe files suitable burial places in Ireland had been identified early on.

Fuinseog

Captain Furball wrote: »

Wouldn't we all be grand?
No stupid debt bases monetary system.
We would have gone to mars and gods knows where.

there was an english movie from the sixties about what could have happened if the germans had invaded england. name of it escapes me.

marcsignal

Fuinseog wrote: »

there was an english movie from the sixties about what could have happened if the germans had invaded england. name of it escapes me.

its called "It Happened Here"

have it on dvd

great movie;)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SIIUfrYggDU

.

hannable80

you would have no tesco or dunnes stores just lidl and aldi and all manner of tat on a thursday to be bought

Dr Strange

hannable80 wrote: »

you would have no tesco or dunnes stores just lidl and aldi and all manner of tat on a thursday to be bought

Don't diss the inflatable boat or scuba diving equipment....

Happy Monday

Hate to be serious but this is what I think would have happened!

Germany would have cleared all Slavic/Russian peoples from east of Germany and created the living space Adolf dreamed of.

Germany would have become the equivalent of the the USA in Europe with a population of some 300 million people in time.

And would have formed alliances with the UK and France to the West with leaders in those countries sympathetic to the Third Reich.

The US would have remained distant from European affairs as was always their initial intention.

FiSe

We'd have EU about 60years earlier, without all that birocracy.

Saint Ruth

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

I dont think the allies would ever have agreed to a nuke being dropped on European soil so who knows!!!

Of course they'd have nuked Germany. They developed the nuke because of Germany, not Japan.
The allies killed 700,000 German civilians by bombing. They had no qualms about that. Neither would they have had any qualms about adding another few 100,000 to that.

As for Germany winning WWII, there's good book, Robert Harris "Fatherland" which is probably the best what-if book about it.

Like in that book, if they won the war, it'd end up cold war between the allies (UK/USA) and Germany. Western Europe would rule themselves, but be fascist. Large chunks of Russia/Poland would be Greater Germany.

That said, once USA was in, they'd it lost. The only way they could have won is if the USA had never gotten involved.

ejmaztec

I think, had Germany won the war, the US would have been at a distinct scientific and technological disadvantage afterwards. I understand that the entire German stockpile of research, secrets, patents etc., was looted and shipped back to the US after the war.

Germany would have been the world power with a space programme.

jimmmy

Morlar wrote: »

Not to rain on your parade but half the nazi party were catholics, including leadership like Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler.

Plus most of the other Axis power eg Mussolini.

Anyway, had Germany / Italy won the war in Europe, there was a plan by the Germans to use the people from these islands to build a motorway / autobahn to the far east ie useful extermination.
The Jews + other minorities eg gypsies were not safe in other countries the Nazi overran...

Morlar

jimmmy wrote: »

Plus most of the other Axis power eg Mussolini.

Anyway, had Germany / Italy won the war in Europe, there was a plan by the Germans to use the people from these islands to build a motorway / autobahn to the far east ie useful extermination.
The Jews + other minorities eg gypsies were not safe in other countries the Nazi overran...

Would you have any link to this information about the plans to use Irish people post german victory to build a 'super highway to the east' ?

There were a few examples of Irish people working on Jersey and Guernsey being given the option of moving to Germany - however this was not as forced labour. It was voluntary and well paid etc.

Also if there was such a plan on what are you basing the designated purpose of the road ?

I can remember reading a quote from Himmler about the russians, saying something along the lines of 'after the war these people (russian peasants) only need to be educated enough to be able read our road signs so that they dont get run over by our vehicles'.

There were plans to open up the east to a west to east migration en masse per the lebensraum ideology, but the specifics of a sanctioned official policy of using Irish people to build the road would be news to me.

FiSe

ejmaztec wrote: »

I think, had Germany won the war, the US would have been at a distinct scientific and technological disadvantage afterwards. I understand that the entire German stockpile of research, secrets, patents etc., was looted and shipped back to the US after the war.

Germany would have been the world power with a space programme.

Yep, Von Braun and his team...
Have heard somebody saying that Korean war in the air was war between two teams of German engineers. One working for the US the other for the Soviets.
Of course it's simplistic, but not that far from the truth.

marcsignal

jimmmy wrote: »

Anyway, had Germany / Italy won the war in Europe, there was a plan by the Germans to use the people from these islands to build a motorway / autobahn to the far east ie useful extermination.

do you have a source/reference for this ??

ejmaztec

FiSe wrote: »

Yep, Von Braun and his team...
Have heard somebody saying that Korean war in the air was war between two teams of German engineers. One working for the US the other for the Soviets.
Of course it's simplistic, but not that far from the truth.

I read recently that the Americans also got their hands on another pile of German technology at the end of WW1.

During WW2, thanks to the deal with Churchill, they managed to get a sizeable chunk of British technology as well, including Frank Whittle's jet technology (some of which could have resulted from his study of various German patents pre-war, combined with his own ideas.)

The Americans did more than well.

jprender

Ve vud all be toking lik zis now

BlackEdelweiss

Morlar wrote: »

Not to rain on your parade but half the nazi party were catholics, including leadership like Hitler, Goebbels and Himmler.

I'm sure a lot of them were born christian or catholic but as they descended in the nazi way of thinking I am sure their allegiance to any religion or god other then Adolf Hitler began to wane.
The nazis were opposed to organized religion, Martin Bormann is quoted as saying "National Socialism and Christianity are irreconcilable".
From what I understand, Hitler did not want to push the religion matter to much until after the war, then when that was out of the way he could concentrate on all of his other housekeeping matters.
Do you think Hitler would let something like God get between him and his people, in his eyes he was their saviour so why should they need someone or something else.
Hitler also had an extermination programme for the handicaped and the insane while his own family had a long history of mental illness and feeble mindedness. Another crime that was often punishable by death was not being able to prove your lineage back a certain number of generations, hitler was unable to provide documentation of his grandfather, thus leading to the rumours of him being a jew.

And no I still dont think the Allies would have dropped a nuke on mainland Europe. The war in Europe was all but over by early 1945, a lot still had to be done but they knew who was going to win by then. I dont think the French would let a bomb be dropped on their doorstep, they were still one of the allies, insignificant as they may have been.

marcsignal

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

From what I understand, Hitler did not want to push the religion matter to much until after the war, then when that was out of the way he could concentrate on all of his other housekeeping matters.
Do you think Hitler would let something like God get between him and his people, in his eyes he was their saviour so why should they need someone or something else.

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

Hitler also had an extermination programme for the handicaped and the insane while his own family had a long history of mental illness and feeble mindedness.

Apparently this programme 'T4' was halted because of grumblings from the church, and church congregations, in late 1940, so I think you're right to suggest the situation would have changed after a German victory, as regards Adolf's tolerance of the churchs role in the New Germany. The first pessimistic grumblings about the course of the war were happening as early as 1941, mostly in the Catholic stronghold, and rural parts of Bavaria, which is surprising in itself, because of staunch Nazi support there from the very beginning.

The Germans also seemed surprisingly tolerant of the Vatican, and never took the place over, despite clear signs there were some refugees from the regime hiding out there en route out of Europe.

The big surprise, imo, was the role the Vatican had in providing Red Cross documention for the likes of Joseph Mengele and others at the end of the war.

Morlar

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

From what I understand, Hitler did not want to push the religion matter to much until after the war, then when that was out of the way he could concentrate on all of his other housekeeping matters.

If your assertion is that catholics would have ended up in gas chambers on the basis of their catholicism - (which the original post asserted) then that is 100% unproven and not supported by the facts at all.

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

Do you think Hitler would let something like God get between him and his people, in his eyes he was their saviour so why should they need someone or something else.

Not to be pedantic but he was not just their 'saviour in his own eyes'. Economically he turned them around from effectively a third world country to a superpower in approx 10 yrs. He was in my view their economic saviour, also in terms of restoring national pride and affirming their status on the world stage. It is often said that pre 1939 he was the greatest leader in that nations history. The importance of his role in this transformation was not delusional imo.

To address your first point, i would say that they were prepared to use religion in as far as it suited their agenda, beyond that it was unnecessary. For many the party would have replaced religion as their primary faith and outlet for their hopes etc. There is a world of difference between that and 'lining catholics up to go to the gas chamber on the basis of their catholicism' which the other post alleged.

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

Hitler also had an extermination programme for the handicaped and the insane while his own family had a long history of mental illness and feeble mindedness.

I think this will depend on the definition of a family with 'a long history of mental illness and feeble mindedness'. In this case it's been alleged (as have a lot of things ) but not proven.

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

Another crime that was often punishable by death was not being able to prove your lineage back a certain number of generations,

That is simply not true, it's another myth created out of atrocity propaganda and probably tacky hollywood caricatures.

Germans joining the SS (at a point in time when the standards were higher than they were late war) needed to prove their lineage back (offhand I think 3 or 4 generations), if they could not prove it they were not accepted, however they were still open to join the other branches. Those who failed to prove it were not exterminated on that basis.

marcsignal

ejmaztec wrote: »

I read recently that the Americans also got their hands on another pile of German technology at the end of WW1.

During WW2, thanks to the deal with Churchill, they managed to get a sizeable chunk of British technology as well, including Frank Whittle's jet technology (some of which could have resulted from his study of various German patents pre-war, combined with his own ideas.)

The Americans did more than well.

Yes, the Yanks did very well, and 'twice' as you say.

Great Book on this if you're interested ? It goes right back to the beginning of the 20th Century.
Well worth the read

BlackEdelweiss

Morlar wrote: »

If your assertion is that catholics would have ended up in gas chambers on the basis of their catholicism - (which the original post asserted) then that is 100% unproven and not supported by the facts at all.



Not to be pedantic but he was not just their 'saviour in his own eyes'. Economically he turned them around from effectively a third world country to a superpower in approx 10 yrs. He was in my view their economic saviour, also in terms of restoring national pride and affirming their status on the world stage. It is often said that pre 1939 he was the greatest leader in that nations history. The importance of his role in this transformation was not delusional imo.

To address your first point, i would say that they were prepared to use religion in as far as it suited their agenda, beyond that it was unnecessary. For many the party would have replaced religion as their primary faith and outlet for their hopes etc. There is a world of difference between that and 'lining catholics up to go to the gas chamber on the basis of their catholicism' which the other post alleged.



I think this will depend on the definition of a family with 'a long history of mental illness and feeble mindedness'. In this case it's been alleged (as have a lot of things ) but not proven.



That is simply not true, it's another myth created out of atrocity propaganda and probably tacky hollywood caricatures.

Germans joining the SS (at a point in time when the standards were higher than they were late war) needed to prove their lineage back (offhand I think 3 or 4 generations), if they could not prove it they were not accepted, however they were still open to join the other branches. Those who failed to prove it were not exterminated on that basis.

My original post was a light hearted reply to a simple "what if" question, in future I shall leave humour out of my posts and only post when I have thoroughly researched my chosen topic.
Please forgive my ignorance.

Morlar

BlackEdelweiss wrote: »

My original post was a light hearted reply to a simple "what if" question, in future I shall leave humour out of my posts and only post when I have thoroughly researched my chosen topic.
Please forgive my ignorance.

Sorry if I missed the humour in your post !! It was not intentional.

rich1874

I'd say things would be pretty much the same as they are now. The German's were only having a bit of a laugh anyway.

ejmaztec

rich1874 wrote: »

I'd say things would be pretty much the same as they are now. The German's were only having a bit of a laugh anyway.

I don't think that "The Producers" was a documentary.

topper75

They made definitely one, possibly two, wartime propaganda movies about heroic Irish fighting the oppresive British in order to boost the morale of their population.

I find as an Irish person having to work here in Germany in the 21st cent that our characters are not at all alike. I cannot crack them at all. They are obsessed with work and order. They are ridiculously serious and intense, wearing constant frowns. Nobody told them life was short. We wouldn't pull at all in my estimation. The Brits aren't always wrong you know!

Jarren

Captain Furball wrote: »

Wouldn't we all be grand?
No stupid debt bases monetary system.
We would have gone to mars and gods knows where.

If the Germans won the war

you would be speaking german today

and mor of that http://images.google.ie/images?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENZZ270&q=oktoberfest&lr=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi;)

FiSe

...and the trains would run on time :rolleyes:

ejmaztec

I suppose Palestine would have still been Palestine, or Palestein, and there would never have been an Israeli state. I think that, had any Jews survived, they would have found their way to the US.

FiSe

Quick note: There was a few Jewish or half-jewish soldiers serving in WH during WWII. Even officers and they did well, apparently.
Talking about front line soldiers here.

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html

ejmaztec

FiSe wrote: »

Quick note: There was a few Jewish or half-jewish soldiers serving in WH during WWII. Even officers and they did well, apparently.
Talking about front line soldiers here.

http://www.kansaspress.ku.edu/righitpix.html

It wasn't exactly all or nothing was it? I wonder how they equated what the regime did to their not so distant relatives.

The Nazis were also selective in what they did with the more prominent jews, because not all of them were sent to the concentration camps.

One of the ultra-rich * Rothschilds was locked up in Colditz, and probably didn't have to wear "striped pyjamas". I wonder what would have happened to him, and all of the European Rothschilds, had the Nazis won?


* It seems that he was a French army officer who was captured by the Germans early on. It also seems that Jewish members of the allied forces were treated as POWs, which meant that most of them were treated the same as the other POWs. Some of them were mistreated however.

A bit about Jewish POWs
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/ww2/sugar6.html

Baron Elie De Rothschild obituary.
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/obituaries/baron-elie-de-rothschild-460791.html

diverdriver

I read Stephan Bungay's book, 'The most dangerous enemy' recently. It's about the 'The Battle of Britain'. But he discusses the mood in Britain after the fall of France. Many wanted to make peace with Germany, indeed Hitler wanted to make peace with Britain, in fact he admired the British and was never really serious about invading. As much as anything it was Churchill's awkwardness and insistence on staying in the war which in turn led to the victory in the Battle of Britain that prevented Germany from winning the war.

If Britain had made peace with Germany, we too would have remained independant, somewhat protected by the proximity to Britain and the fact that we were in fact a dominion at the time.

This is the most likely scenario for a Nazi victory. Without Britain as a thorn in his side, Hitler might well have gone on conquer the Soviet Union and unleashed his dream of lebensraum. For example France wouldn't really have needed to be occupied for long. The Vichy regime could have extended to all of France and indeed become part of the axis. There would have been no desert war either. Mussolini wouldn't have attacked the British if Hitler was a peace with them. Thus releasing more troops for Russia.

With Britain out of the war, there would be nowhere for the Americans to have a foothold in Europe. Which would have kept them out even if Hitler had declared war when Japan attacked. Indeed what would have happened when Japan attacked British possessions would be an interesting discussion.

It's likely then that the Europe today would be dominated by a greater Germany with vassal states surrounding it. Britain and Ireland may have stayed the same or adopted some aspects of fascism. With DeValera in charge, that might be more likely.

What might be more interesting to speculate about would be how Germany changed when Hitler died. He was a sick man in 1945 and it's unlikely he would have lived much longer even if he hadn't shot himself. Who would have replaced him? The Nazis were very much set against each other and if you think about it, there was no natural successor, although Goring believed he was the one. Germany could have fallen into a power struggle, perhaps SS versus the Wehrmacht. If the army generals won there might have been a more moderate Germany. They never really like the Nazis. Remember the Kaiser was still alive until 1941 and he had a successor. A resoration of the monarchy may have changed Germany a great deal.

So rather than a massive, fascist Europe. We might indeed have a somewhat modified version of our current situation. Germany still dominant and militaristic but less right wing, even democratic. With Europe following suit.

But I always like to think that indeed Germany did win the war as such, simply by losing. The country it is now is far better than any possible alternative. In fact we all won the war when you think about it.

MrMicra

jarecki1976 wrote: »

If the Germans won the war

you would be speaking german today

and mor of that http://images.google.ie/images?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENZZ270&q=oktoberfest&lr=&um=1&ie=UTF-8&sa=N&tab=wi;)

Better German than English. For us what's the difference?

FiSe

Accent?

Mahatma coat

If Germany had won the War we'd all be driving(Or wishing we Drove) German Cars, Buying our food in German shops and Drinking German Beer whilst listening to German Techno music on our German built Electronic Devices.

Hang on a mo :eek:
course by that Logic its obvious that Japan didnt win the war, Name me ONE Japanese Techno Group

imme

Impossible for Germany to have won the war. If they had, would we be talking auf Deutsch?.

jimmmy

Mahatma coat wrote: »

If Germany had won the War we'd all be driving(Or wishing we Drove) German Cars, Buying our food in German shops and Drinking German Beer whilst listening to German Techno music on our German built Electronic Devices.

" we'd all " ? I would notlike to bet on it if you were Jewish, homosexual , gypsy ( traveller ) , communist or other such minority....most of those in the countries the Nazis overran did not tend to be able to buy much food or cars from the other side of the wire, I doubt it would have been better for them if Germany won the war.

Mahatma coat

well Obviously.

but seeing as I'm not a BlackJewishGayCommunistGypsie

I should be OK

kowloon

Ziggy's not entirely sure of this but the calculations indicate a 96% chance that there would be more cake.

Dr Strange

kowloon wrote: »

Ziggy's not entirely sure of this but the calculations indicate a 96% chance that there would be more cake.

Probably Black Forest Gateau (Schwarzwaelder Kirschtorte).

WIZE

Or Berliner doughnuts

Mahatma coat

I suppose they would have used the ovens for something else once they Solved their way through Europe.

so on the Minuses we have Genocide and subjugation
and on the Plusses we have Cake

well I know which one wins for me


reminds me of an eddie Izzzard skit

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rZVjKlBCvhg

FiSe

apfel strudel, sacher, schnitzel hmmmm, well if Austrians can be considered a part of victorious power

jimmmy

Mahatma coat wrote: »

but seeing as I'm not a BlackJewishGayCommunistGypsie
I should be OK

so you think if Germany won the war you would be ok ? And the world would be a better place ?