Which Linux?

L'prof · 10-09-2009 8:58pm #1

4th year CS student here. I have used versions of Linux, but I've never installed one on a computer before.

I think this year we're going to be doing a fair bit with Linux in our OS class like Shell Scripts and all that.

Just wondering which version anybody would recommend? I tried installing Ubuntu on a 10gb partition that I created, but I made a bit of a mess of it and I don't think it's in the partition I created and I didn't see any option to select it either.

On top of that, I'm not initially overly impressed with the look of it or how it messes up my boot up options (I'm sure that can be fixed?).

Just started downloading Fedora and might give that a go, any suggestions here?

Naikon · 10-09-2009 10:11pm

jasonorr wrote: »

4th year CS student here. I have used versions of Linux, but I've never installed one on a computer before.

I think this year we're going to be doing a fair bit with Linux in our OS class like Shell Scripts and all that.

Just wondering which version anybody would recommend? I tried installing Ubuntu on a 10gb partition that I created, but I made a bit of a mess of it and I don't think it's in the partition I created and I didn't see any option to select it either.

On top of that, I'm not initially overly impressed with the look of it or how it messes up my boot up options (I'm sure that can be fixed?).

Just started downloading Fedora and might give that a go, any suggestions here?

Slackware is fun.
What do mean by 'the look of it'?

You should read up about the Linux partitioning
scheme. It's very different to Windows.

blubloblu · 10-09-2009 10:20pm

The Brown, presumably.

Naikon · 10-09-2009 10:24pm

blubloblu wrote: »

The Brown, presumably.

At least it's not fisher price XP themed:D

L'prof · 10-09-2009 10:26pm

Naikon wrote: »

Slackware is fun.
What do mean by 'the look of it'?

You should read up about the Linux partitioning
scheme. It's very different to Windows.

Maybe I should have said feel, I'm sure there's plenty of options or features that I have no idea about that would interest me.

EDIT: I read a bit about the partitioning scheme, I think what I did originally was install it on the same partition as Vista. I think I need to split my 10gb partition into 2 partitions for Linux?

blubloblu wrote: »

The Brown, presumably.

Real constructive :rolleyes:

EDIT: Oooh, Fedora is a nice shade of blue!

Naikon · 10-09-2009 10:48pm

jasonorr wrote: »

Maybe I should have said feel, I'm sure there's plenty of options or features that I have no idea about that would interest me.

EDIT: I read a bit about the partitioning scheme, I think what I did originally was install it on the same partition as Vista. I think I need to split my 10gb partition into 2 partitions for Linux?

Real constructive :rolleyes:

Firstly, you need to have a good chunk of disk space
to allocate for various partitions. 10gb should do it.

By convention, you need a primary partition for root FS
and multiple 'logical' partitions for other parts of the system.

You can have more than 4 for redundancy, but 4 should work.
So, your scheme should look like this in the partioning manager:

1-2gb for root: /
1gb for swap: swap
6gb for usr: /usr
1-2gb for home: /home

the /<name> is the mountpoint associated with each partition on the disk.
So to get away with this simple config, you need to create 4 partitions and
assign the label e.g / to each partition.

1st one, root should be set as Primary Linux FS(ext3).
2nd should be marked as logical swap device.
3rd marked as logical Linux FS(ext3).
4th should be marked as logical Linux FS(ext3).

*Swap should by convention be twice the size of the
amount of ram in your machine. I am just assuming
you have at least 512MB in your box.

Dorsanty · 10-09-2009 10:52pm

partitioning scheme is whatever you want, from 1 to a stupidly complicated scheme. So long as each one has a valid filesystem and enough space for files which will live in the various paths. Generally there's no requirement for more then 1 partition in home use as chances are you aren't subject to IO issues/requirements and aren't spreading your OS over multiple logical volumes supported by RAID.

If you installed into the same partition as Vista, well you should no longer have any Vista.If you still have Vista and it's booting okay...well then you probably failed to complete the install.

As for distro. If you want to have something for your CV then CentOS and to a lesser extent Fedora so that you can claim some experience with RedHat distributions as large enterprises which do run Linux are likely to run RHEL (RedHat Enterprise Linux)

If you are looking to checkout potential Windows desktop OS replacements then Ubuntu and Fedora and others will do nicely.

If you feel you are struggling with the install, then you should research how grub works. Specifically the sequence of events from BIOS POST to kernel loading. As knowning this can help a lot in dual boot situations.

L'prof · 10-09-2009 10:59pm

Naikon wrote: »

1-2gb for root: /
1gb for swap: swap
6gb for usr: /usr
1-2gb for home: /home

the /<name> is the mountpoint associated with each partition on the disk.
So to get away with this simple config, you need to create 4 partitions and
assign the label e.g / to each partition.

1st one, root should be set as Primary Linux FS(ext3).
2nd should be marked as logical swap device.
3rd marked as logical Linux FS(ext3).
4th should be marked as logical Linux FS(ext3).

*Swap should by convention be twice the size of the
amount of ram in your machine. I am just assuming
you have at least 512MB in your box.

Yeah, I have 2gbs on the laptop, should I go for 4gbs for swap then? I can make the partition greater than 10gbs, I guess! I saw all those options for partitions when I tried to manually install Ubuntu, I just didn't really know what to do with them.

Dorsanty wrote: »

If you installed into the same partition as Vista, well you should no longer have any Vista.If you still have Vista and it's booting okay...well then you probably failed to complete the install.

I did an auto install and as far as I could see it did some kind of partitioning on my vista partition.

Naikon · 10-09-2009 11:02pm

jasonorr wrote: »

Yeah, I have 2gbs on the laptop, should I go for 4gbs for swap then? I can make the partition greater than 10gbs, I guess! I saw all those options for partitions when I tried to manually install Ubuntu, I just didn't really know what to do with them.

I would not really worry about it, I use 3gb in my machine
and don't even use a swap. You are unlikely to need a swap
with that much memory unless you want to run a server.

All I have posted is convention, you can of course change it
to suit your needs better if you want.

L'prof · 10-09-2009 11:05pm

Naikon wrote: »

I would not really worry about it, I use 3gb in my machine
and don't even use a swap. You are unlikely to need a swap
with that much memory unless you want to run a server.

All I have posted is convention, you can of course change it
to suit your needs better if you want.

Ok, thanks. I might try and run with what you originally posted. I don't know how much use I'll get out of it after this year or how often I'll use it off my own bat, but it will be nice to have the option anyway.

bman · 10-09-2009 11:06pm

If you're just doing it for school work and a bit of a mess about then I wouldn't worry about loads of partitions for now.

Just have your Vista partition, 2GB for swap and 8-10GB for / (pronounced root). Easiest options and gets you going fast.

Naikon · 10-09-2009 11:07pm

/root is the primary partition where the kernel is loaded
from, and all the critical programs live. /etc and /boot are
normally under this partition, and is mounted before others.

Swap is just a way of paging to disk if you run out of ram.
/usr (Unix system resources) is where all the user programs
that are not critical to the system live (eg, firefox).

And /home is just the partition where all the user
data is stored. You can destroy the rest of the system and
your user stuff will still be intact if you can access /home:)

Best of luck with the setup.

L'prof · 10-09-2009 11:17pm

bman wrote: »

If you're just doing it for school work and a bit of a mess about then I wouldn't worry about loads of partitions for now.

Just have your Vista partition, 2GB for swap and 8-10GB for / (pronounced root). Easiest options and gets you going fast.

Naikon wrote: »

/root is the primary partition where the kernel is loaded
from, and all the critical programs live. /etc and /boot are
normally under this partition, and is mounted before others.

Swap is just a way of paging to disk if you run out of ram.
/usr (Unix system resources) is where all the user programs
that are not critical to the system live (eg, firefox).

And /home is just the partition where all the user
data is stored. You can destroy the rest of the system and
your user stuff will still be intact if you can access /home:)

Best of luck with the setup.

Cool, so if I set 2GB for swap (/usr) and 8GB for root (/) that should be fine?

Naikon · 10-09-2009 11:17pm

Yep:)

L'prof · 10-09-2009 11:20pm

Naikon wrote: »

Yep:)

Thanks very much, sorry for the noobish questions, I'll let you know when I have it installed anyway!

Naikon · 10-09-2009 11:35pm

jasonorr wrote: »

Thanks very much, sorry for the noobish questions, I'll let you know when I have it installed anyway!

No problem, will help more if you need it.
You will be flying in no time:)

Cheers.

Dorsanty · 10-09-2009 11:40pm

Hmmm, missing quotes around 'root' maybe.

Naikon wrote: »

/root is the primary partition where the kernel is loaded

/root is the home directory of the user root. '/' is the root directory

Also good luck.

Naikon · 10-09-2009 11:45pm

Dorsanty wrote: »

Hmmm, missing quotes around 'root' maybe.

/root is the home directory of the user root. '/' is the root directory

Also good luck.

'/' is indeed the topmost directory. It lives under '/' normally.
See, even I can make mistakes:pac:

L'prof · 11-09-2009 12:15am

Naikon wrote: »

No problem, will help more if you need it.
You will be flying in no time:)

Cheers.

Installing system...success! It's installing where I want it (I think) at last!

Installing Ubuntu again, although I have a strange feeling I'll give Fedora a go eventually. I gave up trying to set up Fedora, but now that I have Ubuntu going, I reckon I should be able to get it going if I tried again!

Thanks again lads for both yer help.

Naikon · 11-09-2009 12:54am

jasonorr wrote: »

Installing system...success! It's installing where I want it (I think) at last!

Installing Ubuntu again, although I have a strange feeling I'll give Fedora a go eventually. I gave up trying to set up Fedora, but now that I have Ubuntu going, I reckon I should be able to get it going if I tried again!

Thanks again lads for both yer help.

In my best borat voice...great success:D
Thanks for giving some feedback.

Go with Fedora if you want to. It's a RedHat sponsered community
distro. Plenty of handy software comes preinstalled which is a plus.

The installation for all distros is roughly the same.
Partitioning schems are the same across all Linux distros.

L'prof · 11-09-2009 2:02am

Naikon wrote: »

In my best borat voice...great success:D
Thanks for giving some feedback.

Go with Fedora if you want to. It's a RedHat sponsered community
distro. Plenty of handy software comes preinstalled which is a plus.

The installation for all distros is roughly the same.
Partitioning schems are the same across all Linux distros.

Can't boot into it at all now, not sure what happened. I installed all the updates and had to restart for them to take effect and all I get now is a wonky screen.

Anywho, time for bed now. I'll try it again tomorrow and if the same happens, I might try Fedora

Stuxnet · 11-09-2009 6:14am

if your looking for the full package, everything pre installed and extreme eye candy, you want sabayon, its the shizz !

http://www.sabayonlinux.org/

mach1982 · 11-09-2009 9:13am

Sounds like , it might a problem with xserver with controls the graphics. when you boot and get the "wonky screen" press crtl-alt-F7 , also if you can prees crt-alt- f2- f4 to geta termimal( ie command prompt)

L'prof · 11-09-2009 10:04am

mach1982 wrote: »

Sounds like , it might a problem with xserver with controls the graphics. when you boot and get the "wonky screen" press crtl-alt-F7 , also if you can prees crt-alt- f2- f4 to geta termimal( ie command prompt)

Thanks for the reply, I've installed Fedora over it. Not sure which I prefer at the moment but definitely prefer Ubuntus GrubLoader.

L'prof · 11-09-2009 1:57pm

Right, I was trying to use the Vista bootloader as default, but I ran into trouble there. It's actually quite simple to edit the grub loader to pick Vista as default, so that's what I went for in the end and I'm happy with that.

Thanks everyone for your help...until next time

bman · 11-09-2009 3:21pm

jasonorr wrote: »

Right, I was trying to use the Vista bootloader as default, but I ran into trouble there.

You can't boot Linux using the Windows bootloader. You have to use grub (or lilo) to allow you multiboot.

jasonorr wrote: »

It's actually quite simple to edit the grub loader to pick Vista as default, so that's what I went for in the end and I'm happy with that.

Yeah. It's just a matter of getting in there and getting the hands dirty a bit, but once you figure it out (or more so figure out how to get the info via the net) you're sorted. Lots of support out there.

Btw, your black screen was very likely a xorg misconfiguration (often got to do with graphics card drivers). They can sometimes be a bother to get going but it's getting better.

jasonorr wrote: »

Thanks everyone for your help...until next time

Glad we could help. Enjoy your OS.

Fedora is quite a bleeding edge distro so it might not be amazingly stable, but it's very configurable and if your main aim is to learn Linux quick (as compared to using it as a day to day OS) then this is probably the one for you. If you find Fedora hard going after a while then you can relax back into Ubuntu, Mint or PCLinuxOS.

Dorsanty · 11-09-2009 3:58pm

bman wrote: »

You can't boot Linux using the Windows bootloader. You have to use grub (or lilo) to allow you multiboot.

That's not strictly accurate. It is possible to get ntloader to boot linux, but it is a hack at best. http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/ntldr.php

The lesson here is, there's always a way!

bman · 11-09-2009 4:37pm

Dorsanty wrote: »

That's not strictly accurate. It is possible to get ntloader to boot linux, but it is a hack at best. http://jaeger.morpheus.net/linux/ntldr.php

The lesson here is, there's always a way!

Well okay. I knew there was some way of doing it but I've never done it and I don't know anyone that has.

Can't see why anyone would bother when you've grub there anyway?

BopNiblets · 11-09-2009 5:48pm

Obligatory: Linux Mint, it's green! Fedora blue and Ubuntu brown: boooring!

Now, a question: Why should experience with Fedora be best for RHEL for example, is it just the rpm installing scripting experience or what?
If I started to learn scripting for Debian based distros would I not be learning the right kind of scripting? Isn't it all the same in the shell?

Dorsanty · 11-09-2009 9:26pm

BopNiblets wrote: »

Now, a question: Why should experience with Fedora be best for RHEL for example, is it just the rpm installing scripting experience or what?
If I started to learn scripting for Debian based distros would I not be learning the right kind of scripting? Isn't it all the same in the shell?

CentOS is essentially free/open source RHEL, Fedora is a close relation in that it is a redhat distribution just like CentOS and RHEL but it is more desktop orientated. It's not just the rpm package management but also location of config files (layout of /etc for example) and standard utilities. So consider it more a systems administration thing.

Scripting though (bash,perl, etc) is the same across the various platforms and equally useful on all.

L'prof · 11-09-2009 10:07pm

Arrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrgh £"£$!"£$!"£$!"%$!%!$%!%"$%&£%^&$*&$^&*£^&£%^"%^"$%^^&£%^*&%%^*%^*%$*&*$^*($%^*%^^£%*$&((&%^

Is there any way to access/modify my menu.lst file when I can't log into Fedora? I thought I knew what I was doing when I edited it, but obviously not. I could always reinstall Fedora I guess?

Johnboy1951 · 11-09-2009 10:13pm

Boot the PC using a liveCD of any Linux and edit it from there.

L'prof · 11-09-2009 10:16pm

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Boot the PC using a liveCD of any Linux and edit it from there.

Sound, I'll give it a go. I thought I tried that yesterday (when I did something similar) but I couldn't find it / didn't know where to look.

Dorsanty · 11-09-2009 10:17pm

Hit 'e' when grub shows up to edit the values. Then 'b' to boot.

Of course you'll need to know what was wrong with your edit. Then fix the menu.lst once you are up and running.
menu.lst is in /boot/grub/

L'prof · 11-09-2009 10:36pm

Dorsanty wrote: »

Hit 'e' when grub shows up to edit the values. Then 'b' to boot.

Of course you'll need to know what was wrong with your edit. Then fix the menu.lst once you are up and running.
menu.lst is in /boot/grub/

I think this worked. I knew what the code looked like so I knew what to change back anyway.

I had this and what's in red didn't seem to boot properly:

# grub.conf generated by anaconda
#
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file
# NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
#          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
#          root (hd0,5)
#          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/mapper/vg_jasonlaptop-lv_root
#          initrd /initrd-version.img
#boot=/dev/sda
default=0
timeout=5
splashimage=(hd0,5)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
hiddenmenu
[COLOR="Red"]title Fedora (2.6.30.5-43.fc11.i586)
	root (hd0,5)
	kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.30.5-43.fc11.i586 ro root=/dev/mapper/vg_jasonlaptop-lv_root rhgb quiet
	initrd /initrd-2.6.30.5-43.fc11.i586.img[/COLOR]
title Fedora
	root (hd0,5)
	kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.29.4-167.fc11.i586 ro root=/dev/mapper/vg_jasonlaptop-lv_root rhgb quiet
	initrd /initrd-2.6.29.4-167.fc11.i586.img
title Windows Vista
	rootnoverify (hd0,0)
	chainloader +1

And these are the changes I made:

# grub.conf generated by anaconda
#
# Note that you do not have to rerun grub after making changes to this file
# NOTICE:  You have a /boot partition.  This means that
#          all kernel and initrd paths are relative to /boot/, eg.
#          root (hd0,5)
#          kernel /vmlinuz-version ro root=/dev/mapper/vg_jasonlaptop-lv_root
#          initrd /initrd-version.img
#boot=/dev/sda
default=0
timeout=5
splashimage=(hd0,5)/grub/splash.xpm.gz
hiddenmenu
#title Fedora (2.6.30.5-43.fc11.i586)
[COLOR="Red"]#[/COLOR]	root (hd0,5)
[COLOR="Red"]#[/COLOR]	kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.30.5-43.fc11.i586 ro root=/dev/mapper/vg_jasonlaptop-lv_root rhgb quiet
[COLOR="Red"]#[/COLOR]	initrd /initrd-2.6.30.5-43.fc11.i586.img
title Fedora
	root (hd0,5)
	kernel /vmlinuz-2.6.29.4-167.fc11.i586 ro root=/dev/mapper/vg_jasonlaptop-lv_root rhgb quiet
	initrd /initrd-2.6.29.4-167.fc11.i586.img
title Windows Vista
	rootnoverify (hd0,0)
	chainloader +1

I thought the # would ignore the rest of the line, just in case I made a mistake and needed to change it back.

Which Linux?

Comments