Legalising cannibas to cure the resession?

chachabinx

I am a stoner a few years now... I work full time... I go to college part time.. and instead of going home to a glass of wine I like to have a joint... Im not hurting anybody... my heath is not noticably affected...

Everyday few days I have to buy stuff.. I can get it quicker then a pizza... there is only one or 2 days a year maybe that I have a problem gettin my hands on some...

Would it not be a better idea for the government to open their eyes & stop brushing the problem under the carpet... like last week they got something like 500kg in a raid... I can still get some not a problem... the country is flooded with it & all the efforts from the garda aren't going to make a difference... its the same in every country...

I spend about 200 quid a month on it & to be honest it doens't bother me because I don't drink much... if 200,000 people spend that a month thats 40million per month going into the economy rather then in offshore bank accounts belonging to criminals....

I am a young adult & nearly everyone I associate with smoke it... whether its in work.. college & friends in general... people have smoked it for years & its not going to stop EVER

In 2006... Dublin was the 11th most visited city in the world (can't imagine why) but would it not be great for our economy to legalise it... it could be the 2nd Amsterdam...
And for all of you that think Amsterdam is a kip... your right it is but its no different from Dublin City!

Just want to know how everyone feels about the situation!

ScumLord

chachabinx wrote: »

the country is flooded with it

No it's not, your lucky to have such a steady supply.

And for all of you that think Amsterdam is a kip... your right it is but its no different from Dublin City!

Amsterdam is not a kip it's a wonderful city in every way.

Hauk

I agree with you completely.

I love working out the VAT on cannabis seizures that Customs and Excise declare as worth x million euro.

Eight million euro seizure yesterday.

If it's €8million, then VAT at 21.5% = €1,720,000.

120_Minutes

as much as i agree with you, it aint gonna happen. the government will never admit that they're wrong. theres also still a generation in this country that see no difference between weed and heroin, an illegal drug is one that kills, full stop. its been brainwashed into them, and they wont be told otherwise.

give it about 20-30 years and you may see some progress, but it'll be slow.


on a related topic:

* News
* World news

Mexico and Argentina move towards decriminalising drugs

In a backlash against the US 'war on drugs', Latin America turns to a more liberal policy

*
Comments (97)
* Buzz up!
* Digg it

* Rory Carroll in Caracas, Jo Tuckman in Mexico and Tom Phillips in Rio de Janeiro
* guardian.co.uk, Monday 31 August 2009 14.07 BST
* Article history

Argentina and Mexico have taken significant steps towards decriminalising drugs amid a growing Latin American backlash against the US-sponsored "war on drugs".

Argentina's supreme court has ruled it unconstitutional to punish people for using marijuana for personal consumption, an eagerly awaited judgment that gave the government the green light to push for further liberalisation.

It followed Mexico's decision to stop prosecuting people for possession of relatively small quantities of marijuana, cocaine, heroin and other drugs. Instead, they will be referred to clinics and treated as patients, not criminals.

Brazil and Ecuador are also considering partial decriminalisation as part of a regional swing away from a decades-old policy of crackdowns still favoured by Washington.

"The tide is clearly turning. The 'war on drugs' strategy has failed," Fernando Henrique Cardoso, a former Brazilian president, told the Guardian. Earlier this year, he and two former presidents of Colombia and Mexico published a landmark report calling for a new departure.

"The report of the Latin American Commission on Drugs and Democracy has certainly helped to open up the debate about more humane and efficient policies. But, most of all, the facts are speaking by themselves," said Cardoso.

Reform campaigners have long argued that criminalisation enriched drug cartels, fuelled savage turf wars, corrupted state institutions and filled prisons with addicts who presented no real threat to society.

The US used its considerable influence to keep Latin America and the UN wedded to hardline policies which kept the focus on interdictions and jail sentences for consumers as well as dealers. The "war" was first declared by the Nixon administration.

The economic and social cost, plus European moves towards liberalisation, have emboldened some Latin American states to try new approaches.

Argentina's supreme court, presented with a case about youths arrested with a few joints, ruled last week that such behaviour did not violate the constitution. "Each adult is free to make lifestyle decisions without the intervention of the state," it said.

The government, which favours decriminalisation, is expected to amend laws in light of the ruling. The court stressed, however, that it was not approving complete decriminalisation, a move that would be fiercely resisted by the Catholic church and other groups.

The previous week the government of Mexico, which has endured horrific drug-related violence, made it no longer an offence to possess 0.5g of cocaine (the equivalent of about four lines), 5g of marijuana (about four joints), 50mg of heroin and 40mg of methamphetamine.

Three years ago, Mexico backtracked on similar legislation after the initiative triggered howls of outrage in the US and predictions that Cancún and other resorts would become world centres of narcotics tourism.

Now, however, the authorities quietly say they need to free up resources and jail space for a military-led war on the drug cartels, even while publicly justifying that offensive to the Mexican public with the slogan "to stop the drugs reaching your children". They also argue corrupt police officers will be deterred from extorting money from drug users.

Washington did not protest against the announcement, which was kept deliberately low key. "They made no fanfare so as not to arouse the ire of the US," said Walter McKay, of the Mexico City-based Institute for Security and Democracy. "I predict that when the US sees its nightmare has not come true and that there is no narco-tourist boom it will come under more pressure to legalise or decriminalise."

Some US states have decriminalised the possession of small amounts of marijuana and the Obama administration has emphasised public health solutions to drug abuse, giving Latin America more breathing room, said Kasia Malinowska-Sempruch, director of the Global Drug Policy Programme. "My hope is that Latin America will be the next region, after most of Europe, where evidence and science will be the basis for policy-making."

Argentina and Mexico's moves may encourage other governments to follow suit. A new law has been mooted in Ecuador, where President Rafael Correa last year pardoned 1,500 "mules" who had been sentenced to jail. His late father was a convicted mule.

Brazil's supreme court, as well as elements in Congress and the justice ministry, favour decriminalising possession of small quantities of drugs, said Maria Lúcia Karam, a former judge who has joined the advocacy group Law Enforcement Against Prohibition.

She welcomed the moves towards decriminalisation but said repression remained a cornerstone of drug policy. "Unfortunately the 'war on drugs' mentality is still the dominant policy approach in Latin America. The only way to reduce violence in Mexico, Brazil or anywhere else is to legalise the production, supply and consumption of all drugs."

it could start here!

Boskowski

chachabinx wrote: »

like last week they got something like 500kg in a raid...

They could simply sell that on the streets, every little helps...

My name is URL

And for all of you that think Amsterdam is a kip... your right it is but its no different from Dublin City!

Amsterdam is an incredible place, even if there was no vice tourism it'd still probably be the best city in Europe. The infrastructure & efficiency there is epic. They have mobile police stations that park up outside nightclubs etc to stop violence and other crime

TheZohanS

Hauk wrote: »

I agree with you completely.

I love working out the VAT on cannabis seizures that Customs and Excise declare as worth x million euro.

Eight million euro seizure yesterday.

If it's €8million, then VAT at 21.5% = €1,720,000.

Good point. Then you also have the income tax from the workers involved in the sale and distribution of the product. Rates from the licenced premises to sell the stuff, VAT on bills etc etc.

Hauk

TheZohan wrote: »

Good point. Then you also have the income tax from the workers involved in the sale and distribution of the product. Rates from the licenced premises to sell the stuff, VAT on bills etc etc.

Yup, and it would also free up Garda/Justice/Prison systems, which would allow them to deal with an over-crowded prison system, saves the Garda on the street piles of paperwork, and speeds up the court system for serious crimes.

chachabinx

ScumLord wrote: »

No it's not, your lucky to have such a steady supply.

Amsterdam is not a kip it's a wonderful city in every way.

I agree completely I love Amsterday but I know that other people don't think too highly of it...

meditraitor

It will also cure Berry Berry, lungworm, cancer, the skuts, piles, lice, premature ejaculation, chlamydia, dengue fever,fatal familial insomnia, hookworm, kawasaki disease and acne.
Erowid.com



Im all for it, why didnt someone think of this before;)

120_Minutes

Hauk wrote: »

I agree with you completely.

I love working out the VAT on cannabis seizures that Customs and Excise declare as worth x million euro.

Eight million euro seizure yesterday.

If it's €8million, then VAT at 21.5% = €1,720,000.

ok lets break this down:

700kg siezed. that 700000 grams

going rate for weed in my area is 3g fro 50 quid

700000 divide by 3 is approx 233333 bags

233333 x 50 = 11666650

hmmmm they kinda underestimated a bit..

roneythetube

OP - you have spelt 'cannabis' incorrectly. Change it before some eejit comes on pointing out that misspelling is a symptom of cannabis use :rolleyes:

I agree that we have a choice. Continue to pour millions each day into a War on Drugs that has been failing for almost 40 years. Or legalise and normalise a medicinal herb that has been used by humans for thousands of years. simple really.

Prohibition never worked first time - not sure why some people think it may work now.:rolleyes:

120_Minutes

grow your own


simples!

roneythetube

120_Minutes wrote: »

grow your own


simples!

yeah it is the way forward - but one should be able to grow a plant in the privacy of your home for personal use without penalty.

Hauk

120_Minutes wrote: »

ok lets break this down:

700kg siezed. that 700000 grams

going rate for weed in my area is 3g fro 50 quid

700000 divide by 3 is approx 233333 bags

233333 x 50 = 11666650

hmmmm they kinda underestimated a bit..

I usually calculate it by the average prices in Amsterdam, which is about 8/9/10 euro per gram.

700000 x €9 = €6,300,000

€6,300,000 / 100 = €63000.

€63000 x 21.5 = €1,354,500

And that is straight to the government. :P

meditraitor

Hauk wrote: »

I usually calculate it by the average prices in Amsterdam, which is about 8/9/10 euro per gram.

700000 x €9 = €6,300,000

€6,300,000 / 100 = €63000.

€63000 x 21.5 = €1,354,500

And that is straight to the government. :P

Can you tell me how much tax the dutch government have taken from the sale of dope?

humanji

It won't solve any problems at all.

What should be done is make it illegal to drink or smoke without a license. In order to get the license, people have to pay for it and attend a set of courses teaching them how to drink moderately, how to tell good drugs from bad ones, how to recognise when you're being ripped off by bars and how to search Boards.ie for threads about legalising cannabis so you don't unnecessarily start yet another one.

meditraitor

humanji wrote: »

It won't solve any problems at all.

What should be done is make it illegal to drink or smoke without a license. In order to get the license, people have to pay for it and attend a set of courses teaching them how to drink moderately, how to tell good drugs from bad ones, how to recognise when you're being ripped off by bars and how to search Boards.ie for threads about legalising cannabis so you don't unnecessarily start yet another one.

Send me your address, a lovely christmas card will be coming your way good brother....:pac:

120_Minutes

yeah, but thats amsterdam....as long as its illegal here its more accurate to use irish "street prices"

what i want to know is, how did that guy expect to get 700kg through? whats that a ****ing bale of weed? i get paranoid carrying a stinky ounce ffs.

Hauk

meditraitor wrote: »

Can you tell me how much tax the dutch government have taken from the sale of dope?

The Dutch rate of VAT is 19%. I don't have the figures on the average annual sales(by weight) in Holland so I can't give a figure.

120_Minutes wrote: »

yeah, but thats amsterdam....as long as its illegal here its more accurate to use irish "street prices"

what i want to know is, how did that guy expect to get 700kg through? whats that a ****ing bale of weed? i get paranoid carrying a stinky ounce ffs.

Ah my mistake. Yeah, I suppose you are right. I imagine moving 700KG would be a big logistical operation in itself.

roneythetube

Moves towards the taxation of MMJ (Medical marijuana) is currently happening in Oakland, California to try and make some money for wider society by taxing this popular herb and not simply hand the money to criminal gangs. If only the shower of wasters in charge of this country could show some balls and imagination for once and take a similar sensible step.

ejmaztec

roneythetube wrote: »

OP - you have spelt 'cannabis' incorrectly. Change it before some eejit comes on pointing out that misspelling is a symptom of cannabis use :rolleyes:

I agree that we have a choice. Continue to pour millions each day into a War on Drugs that has been failing for almost 40 years. Or legalise and normalise a medicinal herb that has been used by humans for thousands of years. simple really.

Prohibition never worked first time - not sure why some people think it may work now.:rolleyes:

Isn't paranoia one of the symptoms of cannabis abuse?:P

120_Minutes

ejmaztec wrote: »

Isn't paranoia one of the symptoms of cannabis abuse?:P

possibly, but then dont abuse it..... :pac:

ScumLord

ejmaztec wrote: »

Isn't paranoia one of the symptoms of cannabis abuse?:P

No it's one of the main symptoms of a stupid law.

Ostrom

Anything like this should be debated from the point of view of long term individual health and collective economic implications.

Smoking is not good for you, and smoking marijuana less so. Despite the consistent irony of middle class 'campaigners' effectively justifying their want of an easier supply through exchequer gains, and completely ignoring the real possibility of a burdened healthcare system through long-term smoking related physical and mental complications.

'Legalising cannabis to cure the recession'??

That has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard, even for AH

chachabinx

120_Minutes wrote: »

possibly, but then dont abuse it..... :pac:

Ye see I don't get the paronoia thing... like I get paro as in I wouldn't leave my bag on the floor of my car incase someone broke my window or I'd lock my car when Im running into the shop but I don't think that everyones looking or talking about me...
I get paro in a good way... it keeps me safe!

All my friends are the most easy going people in the world & we're never agro & agressive... just a bunch of stoned people with not a care in the world!

chachabinx

efla wrote: »

Anything like this should be debated from the point of view of long term individual health and collective economic implications.

Smoking is not good for you, and smoking marijuana less so. Despite the consistent irony of middle class 'campaigners' effectively justifying their want of an easier supply through exchequer gains, and completely ignoring the real possibility of a burdened healthcare system through long-term smoking related physical and mental complications.

'Legalising cannabis to cure the recession'??

That has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard, even for AH

Ok my point was that its everywhere anyway... most of this generation is smoking it on a daily basis so why not???? There is still going to be the same problem regarding healthcare whether its legal or not!

Also did you know that the scum that provides the drugs mix it with sand, diesel, petrol & old tyres & lord knows what else. So to me thats would cripple the healthcare system NOT clean weed & hash!

Below is the medical benifits.



Note the word partial:

Partial list of clinical applications
"Victoria", the United States' first legal medical marijuana plant grown by The Wo/Men's Alliance for Medical Marijuana.[citation needed]

Medical cannabis specialist Tod H. Mikuriya recorded over 250 indications for medical cannabis,[10] as classified by the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-9).[11]

In a 2002 review of medical literature, medical cannabis was shown to have established effects in the treatment of nausea, vomiting, premenstrual syndrome, unintentional weight loss, and lack of appetite. Other "relatively well-confirmed" effects were in the treatment of "spasticity, painful conditions, especially neurogenic pain, movement disorders, asthma, [and] Glaucoma".[12]

Preliminary findings indicate that cannabis-based drugs could prove useful in treating inflammatory bowel disease (consisting of Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis),[13] migraines, fibromyalgia, and related conditions.[14]

Medical cannabis has also been found to relieve certain symptoms of multiple sclerosis[15] and spinal cord injuries[16][17][18] by exhibiting antispasmodic and muscle-relaxant properties as well as stimulating appetite. Clinical trials provide evidence that THC reduces motor and vocal tics of Tourette syndrome and related behavioral problems such as obsessive–compulsive disorders.[19][20]

Other studies have shown cannabis or cannabinoids to be useful in treating alcohol abuse,[21] attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD or AD/HD)[22][23] amyotrophic lateral sclerosis,[24][25][26] collagen-induced arthritis,[27] rheumatoid arthritis,[28] asthma,[29] atherosclerosis[30] bipolar disorder,[31][32] childhood mental disorders,[33] colorectal cancer,[34] depression,[35][36][37][38] diabetic retinopathy,[39][40] dystonia,[41][42] epilepsy,[43][44] digestive diseases,[45][46] gliomas,[47][48] hepatitis C,[49][50] Huntington's disease,[51] hypertension,[52][53] urinary incontinence,[54] leukemia,[55] skin tumors,[56] morning sickness,[57][58] methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA),[59][60] Parkinson's disease,[61] pruritus,[62][63] posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD),[64][65][66] sickle-cell disease,[67] and sleep apnea.[68]

bluto63

I would think that legalising weed would encourage more smokers, which would encourage more people to spend the night in smoking, rather than going to the pub. The tax they'd get off alcohol would be far higher than that they would get off weed, so I fail to see how it could cure the recession

ScumLord

efla wrote: »

Anything like this should be debated from the point of view of long term individual health and collective economic implications.

Smoking is not good for you, and smoking marijuana less so. Despite the consistent irony of middle class 'campaigners' effectively justifying their want of an easier supply through exchequer gains, and completely ignoring the real possibility of a burdened healthcare system through long-term smoking related physical and mental complications.

Simple solution, don't smoke it, there are two other easy ways to take it, eating and vaporising. In a cafe setting vaporising would be the standard way of doing it. Cannabis is also an anticarcinogen some claim it cancels out the carcinogenic effects of smoking it.

Cannabis is simply not dangerous enough to be illegal.

Fighting Irish

humanji wrote: »

It won't solve any problems at all.

What should be done is make it illegal to drink or smoke without a license. In order to get the license, people have to pay for it and attend a set of courses teaching them how to drink moderately, how to tell good drugs from bad ones, how to recognise when you're being ripped off by bars and how to search Boards.ie for threads about legalising cannabis so you don't unnecessarily start yet another one.

Glad you're not running the country

Paparazzo

Between the pub lobby and joe duffy callers, i can't imagine it ever being legalized to be honest.

Fighting Irish

efla wrote: »

Anything like this should be debated from the point of view of long term individual health and collective economic implications.

Smoking is not good for you, and smoking marijuana less so. Despite the consistent irony of middle class 'campaigners' effectively justifying their want of an easier supply through exchequer gains, and completely ignoring the real possibility of a burdened healthcare system through long-term smoking related physical and mental complications.

'Legalising cannabis to cure the recession'??

That has to be one of the stupidest things I have heard, even for AH

brains of a rock

Prof.Badass

What's the obsession with cannabis?

Many drugs are safer than cannabis (smoking is definitely not healthy) and therefore logically deserve to be legalised more than cannabis. From an objective point of view, singling out cannabis just seems really random.

When people keep mentioning cannabis, it's as if they don't actually care so much about the moral/politcal arguments. They just want it legalised because they happen to enjoy it themselves.

People who want only cannabis legalised really annoy me. To me they are even worse than the joe duffy crowd. Having to personally work around anti-drug laws themselves you'd think they'd be less ignorant. How they can manage to be so closed minded about other drugs while expecting people to be open minded about cannabis just baffles me.

marcsignal

imo they should legalise it and base its regulation loosely on the regulations governing alcohol.

ie: you have to be licenced to sell/distribute it, but you can grow your own, just as you can brew your own beer.

i find when i have it, i smoke far fewer cigarettes, and i can't help feeling that the 'paranoia' associated with the herb, is closely linked to the fact that it's illegal, and the fear of being caught. Despite the seizures lately, more and more of it is grown in ireland and consumed here.

there are other medical benefits that should be explored, treatment of MS etc, and hemp could be used as it has been in the past for many things, replacing other non biodegradable substances currently used for everyday items.

an honest un-biast study of the issue is long overdue.

sdanseo

The only reason the above poll is so biased towards yes is because the majority of people in the boards demographic are young and either use or have used cannabis.

The fact is it's about equal to smoking, which is being heavily restricted. Just because it has a bigger relaxing effect than tobacco doesn't mean it's any safer. Just because people smoke less of it doesn't make it a safer substance, it still does harm even if not as much. Both should be a person's choice in principle, but things aren't that simple. People make shít choices. There's nothing good in the long term about smoking in any form. If it could be guarenteed that legalising it might lower people's intake of carcinogens on a wide scale then maybe there'd be some merit, but give it a few years and people would get used to it being freely available. People probaby didn't used to be on 40 a day when cigarettes first came available.

If tobacco smoking could be banned now, it definately should be, and probably would be, because people realise that at the end of the day it costs nearly as much cure all the associated illnesses than governments stand to profit from it.

Tellox

Firstly; yes, it's harmless in moderation. There doesn't even need to be a LOT of moderation - just don't smoke it 24/7 and you'll be fine. And anyone with some experience can tell you that having a smoke after a long day's work is far more enjoyable (and better for you) than sitting down and starting on cans.

But then you've got the idiots who brand a leaf alongside the likes of heroin; it's a gateway drug!! etc etc. Unfortunately due to the amount of idiots like this in the country (and it's an embarrassing amount), I can't see us ever making any real progress towards some sort of legalisation.

The tax revenue would be fantastic - and we'd also be regulating the stuff, so the health implications of getting soapbar mixed up with the usual crap such as plastic, or being dipped in petrol and the likes would be out the window. And let's not forget that weed doesn't have the addictive properties of tobacco.

The big argument is all the scum we see belting around full of drink at young enough ages (14-16~) having a new vice to latch on to. I would throw that argument out the window - give me a scumbag stoned off his head over one full of cans any day. They'd be more likely to sit down and play their playstation rather than run around starting fights.

And the big kicker of it all is how readily available it is - I honestly can't think of more than 2 or 3 people who have never at least tried the stuff. This includes those who are currently earning their masters, those in full time employment, those with families.. etc etc. It's not a gateway drug, and in moderation, it's not going to fry your brain any worse than what having a few cans at the weekend would do.

Regulate it, Tax it, Sell it. Better the money goes back into building a nice road in Ireland than an offshore bank account.

in b4 "YOU ARE THE REASON DRUGS ARE SO RAMPANT IN THIS COUNTRY YOU SWINE etc"

ScumLord

vinylmesh wrote: »

What's the obsession with cannabis?

Many drugs are safer than cannabis (smoking is definitely not healthy) and therefore logically deserve to be legalised more than cannabis. From an objective point of view, singling out cannabis just seems really random.

When people keep mentioning cannabis, it's as if they don't actually care so much about the moral/politcal arguments. They just want it legalised because they happen to enjoy it themselves.

People who want only cannabis legalised really annoy me. To me they are even worse than the joe duffy crowd. Having to personally work around anti-drug laws themselves you'd think they'd be less ignorant. How they can manage to be so closed minded about other drugs while expecting people to be open minded about cannabis just baffles me.

I'd be in favour of legalising all drugs but cannabis is my drug of preference and it's the only one I feel really strongly about getting legalised. Cannabis has so many benefits in so many areas it's criminal that we can't make use of this wonder plant. It's also a great way of testing the water when it comes to legalising other drugs.

I think all efforts should be focused on cannabis to get it pushed through. Trying to get all drugs legalised in one fell swoop won't work we need stepping stones.

marcsignal

Tellox wrote: »

Firstly; yes, it's harmless in moderation. There doesn't even need to be a LOT of moderation - just don't smoke it 24/7 and you'll be fine. And anyone with some experience can tell you that having a smoke after a long day's work is far more enjoyable (and better for you) than sitting down and starting on cans.

have to agree Tellox, as with all of these things, common sense should always be a prevailing factor.
Adding to that, all I can say in support of its use, is, that having drank in dublin city centre for over 20 years, prior to the smoking ban, i've never seen agro in any pub that turned a blind eye to punters having the odd spliff.

go into town any weekend and you'll see people pissed up to the eyeballs kicking the shit out of one and other.

faceman

Im against it. Our healthcare system is already crippled by alcohol and cigarette related illnesses. We dont need an additional burden.

I always hate the way the pro druggies always spout medicinal medicine or other benefits as if it the only and best offering to treat an ailment. Its mind altering therefore doesnt offer any treatment of most conditions it is claimed to help.

Prohibition doesnt work but as we've seen with the government's attitude to dealing with smoking in Ireland, the numbers of young people taking up smoking has greatly fallen as a result, which benefits the individual and those around them. NOt to mention the health care system.

But if sitting in stoned off your face, disconnected from the real world is your thing, knock yourself out.

Homicidal_jesus

vinylmesh wrote: »

What's the obsession with cannabis?

Many drugs are safer than cannabis (smoking is definitely not healthy)

..its fun:D

and in the history of the united states there has never been a death soley linked to cannabis unlike tobacco..not sure about europe..but i like those odds

ScumLord

faceman wrote: »

Im against it. Our healthcare system is already crippled by alcohol and cigarette related illnesses. We dont need an additional burden.

What additional burden? Your just assuming it'll create a similar burden to two completely different drugs.

I always hate the way the pro druggies always spout medicinal medicine or other benefits as if it the only and best offering to treat an ailment. Its mind altering therefore doesnt offer any treatment of most conditions it is claimed to help.

It is a form of treatment, you can use it to replace multiple drugs with just one. It's being researched and brought to the market as we speak, in fact it's ready as an oral spray and proving very successful it's just not being used because the government won't allow it and the medical companies would rather sell their much more expensive and patented drugs instead.

Prohibition doesnt work

and isn't nessecary it's a waste of time, money and people lifes.

But if sitting in stoned off your face, disconnected from the real world is your thing, knock yourself out.

You obviously don't smoke. Smoking with friends is much more enjoyable just like drinking with friends is much more enjoyable.

Neamhshuntasach

With weed you smoke and enjoy the effects. You know your limits. With alcohol you drink and are usually too drunk to enjoy or remember the effects. What is really worse? I use both regularily. And i've a fair idea which one is worse for my health.

Ostrom

Fighting Irish wrote: »

brains of a rock

Argue back

chachabinx wrote: »

Ok my point was that its everywhere anyway... most of this generation is smoking it on a daily basis so why not???? There is still going to be the same problem regarding healthcare whether its legal or not!

Also did you know that the scum that provides the drugs mix it with sand, diesel, petrol & old tyres & lord knows what else. So to me thats would cripple the healthcare system NOT clean weed & hash!

Below is the medical benifits.



Note the word partial:

Partial list of clinical applications
"Victoria", the United States' first legal medical marijuana plant grown by The Wo/Men's Alliance for Medical Marijuana.[citation needed]

Medical cannabis specialist Tod H. Mikuriya recorded over 250 indications for medical cannabis,[10] as classified by the International Statistical Classification of Diseases and Related Health Problems (ICD-9).[11]

In a 2002 review of medical literature, medical cannabis was shown to have established effects in the treatment of nausea, vomiting, premenstrual syndrome, unintentional weight loss, and lack of appetite. Other "relatively well-confirmed" effects were in the treatment of "spasticity, painful conditions, especially neurogenic pain, movement disorders, asthma, [and] Glaucoma".[12]

Preliminary findings indicate that cannabis-based drugs could prove useful in treating inflammatory bowel disease (consisting of Crohn's disease and ulcerative colitis),[13] migraines, fibromyalgia, and related conditions.[14]

Medical cannabis has also been found to relieve certain symptoms of multiple sclerosis[15] and spinal cord injuries[16][17][18] by exhibiting antispasmodic and muscle-relaxant properties as well as stimulating appetite. Clinical trials provide evidence that THC reduces motor and vocal tics of Tourette syndrome and related behavioral problems such as obsessive–compulsive disorders.[19][20]

Other studies have shown cannabis or cannabinoids to be useful in treating alcohol abuse,[21] attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD or AD/HD)[22][23] amyotrophic lateral sclerosis,[24][25][26] collagen-induced arthritis,[27] rheumatoid arthritis,[28] asthma,[29] atherosclerosis[30] bipolar disorder,[31][32] childhood mental disorders,[33] colorectal cancer,[34] depression,[35][36][37][38] diabetic retinopathy,[39][40] dystonia,[41][42] epilepsy,[43][44] digestive diseases,[45][46] gliomas,[47][48] hepatitis C,[49][50] Huntington's disease,[51] hypertension,[52][53] urinary incontinence,[54] leukemia,[55] skin tumors,[56] morning sickness,[57][58] methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA),[59][60] Parkinson's disease,[61] pruritus,[62][63] posttraumatic stress disorder (PTSD),[64][65][66] sickle-cell disease,[67] and sleep apnea.[68]

And not a mention of the need for controlled administration under the supervision of medical professionals?

Where exactly is this clean hash and weed to come from? Will a protected domestic supply produce a purification industry? Should we allocate the resources of a state department to policing revenue and licensing vendors? What about the added costs of acquiring pure substance, would that drive up black market competition for contaminated cheap alternatives?

From a public health perspective, it makes no sense to promote marijuana smoking, the operative word being smoking. Your data does not matter, something the pro-cannabis lobby consistently overlooks; it justifies controlled administration for pain management, and suggests nothing about quality of life enhancement for those who do not need it. The extent of the damage surplus to that encountered through tobacco is irrelevant, you are proposing to introduce a substance - that medical research tells us should (obviously) be limited on a case-by-case basis - to the general population.

What medic could possibly sanction what you are talking about at the level you are suggesting? These arguments always come back to lifestyle choices, with abuse of data shaped to an argument it was never intended to support.

Tellox

faceman wrote: »

Im against it. Our healthcare system is already crippled by alcohol and cigarette related illnesses. We dont need an additional burden.

Are you kidding me? The tax on cigarettes far more than covers the health costs. Generally someone who smokes weed would smoke less tobacco - due to the "oversmoked" feeling you can have shortly afterwards. Now, I'm not attempting to say that legalising weed would HELP our healthcare system, but it certainly would not cripple it; especially with the tax that would be hiked onto it.

I always hate the way the pro druggies always spout medicinal medicine or other benefits as if it the only and best offering to treat an ailment. Its mind altering therefore doesnt offer any treatment of most conditions it is claimed to help.

As with any other over the counter medicine such as panadol, hedex.. etc etc. I'm also unable to take the vast majority of painkillers on the market (like plenty of others, due to pre-existing conditions) - take a guess as to what I do when I've a splitting migraine.

Prohibition doesnt work but as we've seen with the government's attitude to dealing with smoking in Ireland, the numbers of young people taking up smoking has greatly fallen as a result, which benefits the individual and those around them. NOt to mention the health care system.

Where did you pull that out of? I see no less underage smokers on the street now than I did 10 years ago.

But if sitting in stoned off your face, disconnected from the real world is your thing, knock yourself out.

*facepalm*

humanji

marcsignal wrote: »

go into town any weekend and you'll see people pissed up to the eyeballs kicking the shit out of one and other.

Is that drinks fault or peoples fault?

Tellox wrote:

Are you kidding me? The tax on cigarettes far more than covers the health costs. Generally someone who smokes weed would smoke less tobacco - due to the "oversmoked" feeling you can have shortly afterwards. Now, I'm not attempting to say that legalising weed would HELP our healthcare system, but it certainly would not cripple it; especially with the tax that would be hiked onto it.

The point is, there's no point adding another burden (however light it may seem) to the mix with out sorting these ones out first. I'd be all for legalising cannabis if the rest of the country could be sorted out first. Legalising it now will do very little for the economy in the short term and besides, as is said in the several hundred thousand similar threads before, it would be political suicide for any party to legalise it.

chachabinx

bluto63 wrote: »

I would think that legalising weed would encourage more smokers, which would encourage more people to spend the night in smoking, rather than going to the pub. The tax they'd get off alcohol would be far higher than that they would get off weed, so I fail to see how it could cure the recession

Yes but most people do this anyway because its so easily available... it cuts out the risk of driving still half drunk... and being hungover in work... also is it not better that people are sitting at home smoking then out drunk causing trouble.. gettin sick on the street... abusing people trying to make a living... unprotected sex which lead to pregnancy.. which leads to lone parent allowence, rent allowence or a council house, having to leave college & school & pretty much ****ing up you whole life...
People gettin beaten to death for no reason or stabbed... windows gettin smashed & cars gettin smashed up!

And how would they not make as much money... its grows itself!

wudangclan

humanji wrote: »

Is that drinks fault or peoples fault?

drinks affect on people?

You Suck!

Our healthcare system is already crippled by alcohol and cigarette related illnesses.

Really?
As far as I was aware smokers outpay their costs to the system by a hefty chunk thanks to the wonderful tax fish that likes to swim in a barrel. Don't know about alcohol, but once again tax comes to mind for some strange reason.

No, whats crippling health care is complete and utter mismanagement and incompentance, not to mention a bloated and bureaucratic civil service grown fat on getting what they want without fear of recrimination.

pro druggies

Yeah, the legalization stereotypes and the people who fulfill are a pain, but does it do anything for your argument to invoke a stereotype?

Hows about these 'pro-druggies':
http://www.prohibitioncosts.org/endorsers.html

The report shows that marijuana legalization -- replacing prohibition with a system of taxation and regulation -- would save $7.7 billion per year in state and federal expenditures on prohibition enforcement and produce tax revenues of at least $2.4 billion annually if marijuana were taxed like most consumer goods. If, however, marijuana were taxed similarly to alcohol or tobacco, it might generate as much as $6.2 billion annually.

But now before you accuse me of being 'pro-druggie', let me just say I used to care and don't really give a **** anymore. Prohibition or lack thereof does not affect me, and these arguments on the internets can and will go on forever so **** it, meh whatever.

Prof.Badass

ScumLord wrote: »

I'd be in favour of legalising all drugs but cannabis is my drug of preference and it's the only one I feel really strongly about getting legalised. Cannabis has so many benefits in so many areas it's criminal that we can't make use of this wonder plant. It's also a great way of testing the water when it comes to legalising other drugs.

I think all efforts should be focused on cannabis to get it pushed through. Trying to get all drugs legalised in one fell swoop won't work we need stepping stones.

I honestly cannot ever see cannabis being legalised as a result of "let's legalise cannabis, it's not that bad".
By arguing about cannabis specifically you're actually playing into their hands. It gives the impression that you agree somewhat with their arguments.

By the same token, I cannot see cannabis being legalised as part of "we need to legalise all drugs".

What i can see however, is cannabis eventually being legalised as part of a call for a change in how we deal with drugs. And i don't think legalising cannabis would be suitable first step.

The first step might be to loosen restrictions on nicotine-replacement products in order to reduce the harm caused by tobacco. The next step might be to legalise a safer alternative to alcohol or maybe a non-toxic synthetic cannabinoid.

Basically i think by arguing "legalise cannabis" or "legalise all drugs" you're barking up the wrong tree. I think "prohibition is a mess" and "we need a rational approach to drugs" are much better arguments .

wudangclan

isn't it being taxed now in california?
yes it is ,i just googled it.
http://www.canorml.org/news/oaktax.html
hopefully this will lead to reform in other states and then the rest of the world.
a pity we don't have politicians imaginative or brave enough here to initiate this.
(1.8% tax doesn't seem like a huge amount.i would imagine the tax here will be much higher when it is eventually legalised.)

humanji

wudangclan wrote: »

drinks affect on people?

Or peoples inability to drink moderately?