Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest
Thanks Alive for helping me make my mind up
-
10-09-2009 9:29am#1I voted no the last time. I stand by that vote and still think I did the right thing.
This time however I finally made my decision after reading the Irish Times this morning about the advert in Alive from Eire go Brach. Seemingly if Lisbon is passed the EU could seize the elderly's homes and put children of people with depression in care. And according to their website it will "makeIreland a subject-state to the EU Empire, putting our Nation under the control of a foreign parliament" - seriously - that's a direct quote, as is "Dáil Éireann is transformed into a Home Rule parliament". While this may not be a bad thing considering the current shower in place
it's still bull****.
After Coir's posters of half-truths I was leaning towards yes but still on the fence. But this group is just plain full of it and it's being distributed to churchgoers all over the country.
Some of my original concerns about the treaty have been alleviated already - not all. But I have yet to hear a single coherent argument to vote no - most of the no argument is comprised of half-truths and the rest is just plain lies. But the yes arguments are clear. The yes side are not innocent of half-truths and mudslinging either but at least there are clear reasons to vote yes. So unless there's some compelling argument to change my mind that's the way I'll be voting.
Thanks Eire go Brach for clearing that up for me.12
Comments
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
I voted no the last time. I stand by that vote and still think I did the right thing.
This time however I finally made my decision after reading the Irish Times this morning about the advert in Alive from Eire go Brach. Seemingly if Lisbon is passed the EU could seize the elderly's homes and put children of people with depression in care. And according to their website it will "makeIreland a subject-state to the EU Empire, putting our Nation under the control of a foreign parliament" - seriously - that's a direct quote, as is "Dáil Éireann is transformed into a Home Rule parliament". While this may not be a bad thing considering the current shower in place it's still bull****.
After Coir's posters of half-truths I was leaning towards yes but still on the fence. But this group is just plain full of it and it's being distributed to churchgoers all over the country.
Some of my original concerns about the treaty have been alleviated already - not all. But I have yet to hear a single coherent argument to vote no - most of the no argument is comprised of half-truths and the rest is just plain lies. But the yes arguments are clear. The yes side are not innocent of half-truths and mudslinging either but at least there are clear reasons to vote yes. So unless there's some compelling argument to change my mind that's the way I'll be voting.
Thanks Eire go Brach for clearing that up for me.
What's clear about the "yes" arguments ? What are the reasons for voting yes ?0 -
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
-
-
-
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
I've mentioned a couple of times that there are things I don't agree with still and that there are good points so perhaps I should clarify to avoid similar misunderstanding of my op.
Bad:
1. Permanent President. I don't necessarily trust politicians to not prioritise their own countries concerns even as president of the EU. There is also no clearly defined mechanism for selecting a president or clear definitions of the roles and powers of the position. These should be crystal clear imo.
2. Self-amendment. It is, in certain circumstances, self-amending. While these amendments cannot increase the competencies of the EU despite some arguments to the contrary it is still a concern that a treaty would have a clause allowing it to be amended without a new treaty.
3. Military: I don't accept our own govts statements that this means a triple lock mechanism. It is a military intervention agreement which does not require UN approval. I do believe it increases links between the EU and NATO which I do not believe is a good thing.
Good:
1. Public voting in the Council. About time. This will finally mean that Ministers are accountable to their own citizens.
2. Parliament: Increased power is only right as it is the only democratically elected body in the EU.
3. Fundamental Rights. These will now be legally binding.
4. High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs. We need one. When the next Henry Kissinger asks "Who do I ring to speak to Europe?" we'd have an answer.
This is just a summary of my opinions cos I'm heading to the pub now and don't want to waste any more valuable drinking time
But it might clarify some of my earlier posts. 0 -
This is a crucial point in the debate. Some on the No side would have you think that if there's any bad in a Treaty that you must vote No when in reality no Treaty is going to be uniformly good for every person and we must come to a personal judgement on whether the Treaty is on balance rather than in its totality good for the country.
Absolutely. It's thicker than the New York white pages - no way it's going to keep everyone happy It has to be judged whether, on balance, it more good than bad or vice versa. 0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
-
I've mentioned a couple of times that there are things I don't agree with still and that there are good points so perhaps I should clarify to avoid similar misunderstanding of my op.
Bad:
1. Permanent President. I don't necessarily trust politicians to not prioritise their own countries concerns even as president of the EU. There is also no clearly defined mechanism for selecting a president or clear definitions of the roles and powers of the position. These should be crystal clear imo.
2. Self-amendment. It is, in certain circumstances, self-amending. While these amendments cannot increase the competencies of the EU despite some arguments to the contrary it is still a concern that a treaty would have a clause allowing it to be amended without a new treaty.
3. Military: I don't accept our own govts statements that this means a triple lock mechanism. It is a military intervention agreement which does not require UN approval. I do believe it increases links between the EU and NATO which I do not believe is a good thing.
Good:
1. Public voting in the Council. About time. This will finally mean that Ministers are accountable to their own citizens.
2. Parliament: Increased power is only right as it is the only democratically elected body in the EU.
3. Fundamental Rights. These will now be legally binding.
4. High Representative of the Union for Foreign Affairs. We need one. When the next Henry Kissinger asks "Who do I ring to speak to Europe?" we'd have an answer.
This is just a summary of my opinions cos I'm heading to the pub now and don't want to waste any more valuable drinking time But it might clarify some of my earlier posts.
This is my main issue.
You say it's a good thing that the Parliament's power is increased, which in fairness it is but I think it's too little.
The only democratically elected body in the EU is the one with the least power. That's a farce.0 -
-
-
-
If your decision is based on your understanding of the treaty, how have Alive helped you make up your mind ?
That seems contradictory to me.
Because my understanding of the treaty makes me realise just how full of crap that ad is. And if they don't have a reasoned argument then I will listen to the people who do. Not contradictory at all I don't think.
And do vote. I'm firmly of the opinion that if you don't vote you lost the right to complain about the result.
[edit]I'm not stalling - the people I'm going to the pub with are still working :rolleyes: ... oh here they come now
0 -
-
P. Breathnach wrote: »That's a bit too close to the "America: love it or leave it" sentiment for my liking.
its the only sentiment far right groups understand
0 -
-
-
-
Advertisement
Advertisement