Who Do You Think You Are, RTE1

kmick

Emme wrote: »

There were plenty of ne'er do wells also, like the guy who was kicked out of the Quakers for insolvency.

Getting kicked out of the Quakers is the best thing that ever happened to me so going by that you could not call him a ne'er do well

R.Dub.Fusilier

walrusgumble wrote: »

in fairness, i would imagine ivan was being a wee bit tongue in cheek and joking, maybe making fun of a grandparent or aunt or parent who might have said those things back in the days of yore? or maybe he is biggotted. I like to imagine its the first option. I would also imagine that he might have had an idea or two about the Jameson side of the family.
)

i enjoy this programe , both the RTE and BBC versions but i have to say i didnt like the yates one. i am not seceterian in any way but i did not like the comment about catholics from him or his ''expert''. i wouldn't like it if was made about protestants. but on rte its ok to slag off catholics , if the same comment was made about jews protestants or muslims joe duffy would be up in arms. i remember on the BBC version esther rancid made a joke of her ancestor killing the catholic maid and nobody cared then either.

Snickers Man

Emme wrote: »

One thing that annoys me about both Tubridy and Yates's programmes was the amount of time spend in England for both. OK, Irish ancestors who stayed home and slogged away in the background might not be as exciting, but is there any need to chase up ancestors across the water unless they emigrated?

Well to be fair, this is part and parcel of the subject matter of the programme. The British version has people going all over the world in search of ancestors. David Dickinson to Turkey, David Baddiel to Kalingrad, several others to Poland and not a few to Ireland (John Hurt, Jeremy Irons, Barbara Windsor, Amanda Redman to name but four)

Added to this is the fact that, as has been mentioned before, it is very difficult to trace ancestors, especially Catholic ones, in this country beyond the first half of the 19th century. There were no central records until the 1840s and church records are inevitably impaired given the suppression of the Catholic Church in the 18th century.

I was surprised that Yates seemed surprised by his connections to Marconi. I have known for many years that Marconi's mother was a Jameson. Even Wikipedia has had that information for ages.

I think the lovely Rosanna's could be quite interesting. Chris De Burgh's album covers have long made claims for his exotic and royal lineage.

Judgement Day

Having known the bold Ivan for many years the idiom 'What can you expect from a hog but a grunt?' seems appropriate.

Emme

Snickers Man wrote: »

I think the lovely Rosanna's could be quite interesting. Chris De Burgh's album covers have long made claims for his exotic and royal lineage.

A trip to Argentina is probably on the cards there and some TV exposure for Daddy Chris. I'm looking forward to it though -hopefully they'll show a few Argie polo players with thighs you could crack nuts off!

sweet-rasmus

I'll agree that i was a bit uneasy watching Ivan. It was interesting alright, and i'm sure that all those links is the main reason this was aired, but he just bugged me.

And it's true, you can't research that far back into Irish records unless you were pretty darn famous. Sure, they did pop into the National Archives of Ireland, didn't they?

Amtmann

Snickers Man wrote: »

But it was amazing to see how far back the gentry in England can go. I wonder how many of the rest of us have royal bloodlines.

I've traced my lot back to 1725, though they were just Gaelic Catholic
peasants. However, my surname is O'Donnell and I hail from South Tipp, and I noticed that the first large troop of O'Donnell's arrived in South Tipperary in the 1490s, claiming a link with the O'Donnells of Tyrconnell. It's likely that most O'Donnells in Tipp have some relation to this dubious entourage, which one highly esteemed historian of late medieval Ireland assures me, is likely to have trumpeted a fake pedigree. But yeah, 1725 is as far back as I can go based on my surname. I consider myself very lucky.

Linus67

Furet wrote: »

I've traced my lot back to 1725, though they were just Gaelic Catholic
peasants. However, my surname is O'Donnell and I hail from South Tipp, and I noticed that the first large troop of O'Donnell's arrived in South Tipperary in the 1490s, claiming a link with the O'Donnells of Tyrconnell. It's likely that most O'Donnells in Tipp have some relation to this dubious entourage, which one highly esteemed historian of late medieval Ireland assures me, is likely to have trumpeted a fake pedigree. But yeah, 1725 is as far back as I can go based on my surname. I consider myself very lucky.

Here is a link to see how many O' Donnell's you might have a match with. Join the O' Donnell Project and get your Y-DNA tested.
http://www.familytreedna.com/public/ODonnell/default.aspx

Linus67

That was one of the best episodes of Who Do You Think You Are? I have seen. It was very interesting.

I think that most Irish people have Protestant ancestry down the line somewhere. It would be pretty naive to think we don't. After researching my own family tree I found some Protestant ancestors. I don't understand some Irish people's attitude to having Protestant ancestry.

walrusgumble

Linus67 wrote: »

That was one of the best episodes of Who Do You Think You Are? I have seen. It was very interesting.

I think that most Irish people have Protestant ancestry down the line somewhere. It would be pretty naive to think we don't. After researching my own family tree I found some Protestant ancestors. I don't understand some Irish people's attitude to having Protestant ancestry.

has anyone ever commented about your surname and say something like oh thats an good irish surname, very gaelic? this from irish people. and i am not talking about the likes of murphy, o'connor, o'donnell, kelly etc (i am sure someone might point out something to the contrary)

i agree, there is bount to be some "black" prods ( i swear that was a joke, sorry if i offend)

this is a little off the track, and for many a case of no s*it sherlock, or well the name is not the ownership of catholic ireland etc

i will try and find the link to a history website of ulster unionism. i checked it before and was able to see all the names that signed the ulster convenant of 1912. now, (whilst this won't be a shock to many, neither does it prove that the people who signed were protestants) but many of the names who signed were very common irish catholic / nationalist names.

the fun part of viewing this was viewing it with friends and slagging each other (childess i know) if anyone's name sake signed, only to shock and horror (not really) to find your name sake signed the documents

i watched the repeat, and i was more nose out of joint when it showed the clip where ivan finds out information about his great grand uncle's lover/partner and the expert suggested that she might have being from working class background and he made some comment like good god know we cant have that. i hope he was joking, but in some ways, at least we would get an idea that maybe he would not have come from the declan costello / gareth fitzgerald line of fine gaelers (just and fair society)

Linus67

After getting my Y-DNA tested I found out that I am descended from the Uí Neill Tribe. Half of my matches are Scottish surnames as the Uí Neills planted Scotland around the 5th century.

So, I'd imagine that a lot of Ulster Protestants of Scottish descent also descend from the Uí Neill tribe.

Dummy

Linus,

Where did you get the Y-DNA test done?



D

Linus67

Dummy wrote: »

Linus,

Where did you get the Y-DNA test done?



D

I tested with Family Tree DNA.
http://www.familytreedna.com

If you join a surname project the price will be a bit cheaper.

I know it's expensive but I would recommend ordering the 37 Marker test as it tells you a good bit of information and it might narrow down your matches (if you have any) to a more recent genealogical time frame.

McArmalite

walrusgumble wrote: »

i will try and find the link to a history website of ulster unionism. i checked it before and was able to see all the names that signed the ulster convenant of 1912. now, (whilst this won't be a shock to many, neither does it prove that the people who signed were protestants) but many of the names who signed were very common irish catholic / nationalist names.

Many unionists have nationalist names, for example the loyalist serial killer Lenny Murphy of Shankill Butchers infamy. It was said he had a sort of guilt complex about having such an obvious nationalist name and hence expained how he had such a particular psychopathic strike.

A bit off topic but I remember reading over on Politics.ie's history forum where someone said that they had inspected the signing of the Ulster covenant and they could see by the signatures that many of those who signed put down several names. Also Ulster covenant books were signed in Canada ( surprisingly strong levels of orangism in parts of Canada, even to this day ) and Scotland and England.

Emme

The programme on Rosanna Davison last night was really interesting. She has fantastic ancestors from both working class and aristocratic backgrounds from her father's side. If that's not enough she has artistic genes from her mother's side as well. She shouldn't have shouted her secret agent granny down as much but apart from that she came across very well.

There's easily enough material for another programme on her. IMHO they should have made two programmes on Rosanna's ancestry and not bothered with Ivan Yates.

Dummy

Emme,

Her grandmother was fascinating. I hope Rosanne sits down with her & documents all of those memories.

There is a book to be written from those stories. What a colourful life, full of intrigue from the early days of the Cold War. And to have Kim Philbys name thrown into the pot too.

D

Dr Pepper

That was unbelievable when the guy was sitting down with her and started going back through the pages of an old ledger, century by century all the way back to (I think) a half-brother of William the Conqueror. Then also to a Bishop Odo, Commissioner of the Bayeux Tapestry.

I have to say though (and I hate to be bitchy, BUT ), I found the whole episode rather irritating for 2 reasons:

- Rosanna didn't really appear in the least bit bothered about the fact that the researcher was able to trace her family back some 30 generations (an entire millennium and probably more). It's like she just assumed that everybody who traces their ancestry in this country is able to go back that far! Ah, maybe I'm not being fair - she did seem to show a great interest in her grandparents history in the second half of the show.

- She seemed to be wearing a different and more audacious outfit in every scene and half the pictures were just close ups of her face and hair (which were always perfect). Fair enough, I know she's a pretty stunning-looking girl and that's not her fault but I just don't think it's that kind of program. There are plenty of (too many!) programs/channels devoted to that kind of thing already...

Bah, maybe I'm just turning into a cranky old man before my time.. Ba humbug :pac:

/ pointless rant over

Snickers Man

McArmalite wrote: »

Many unionists have nationalist names, for example the loyalist serial killer Lenny Murphy of Shankill Butchers infamy. It was said he had a sort of guilt complex about having such an obvious nationalist name and hence expained how he had such a particular psychopathic strike.

Any true northerner knows that surnames are a very poor guide to one's religion and community. There has been so much intermarriage down through the years, plus the fact that people have been travelling back and forth between Ulster and Scotland since way before the Reformation that the populations have become thoroughly intermingled.

Hence the presence in the ranks of Loyalist paramilitaries of people with Irish names like Murphy and Mooney and the presence in the "Republican movement" of people with such good planter names as Sands, Adams and er, Donaldson. (OK so the last one is probably not a good example)

First names give you a much better clue. If somebody's first name is obviously Irish/Gaelic eg Seamus, Eamon, Kieran, or if it is clearly named after an Irish saint like Patrick or Kevin they are almost certainly Catholic.

If their first name is a surname or is obcviously Scots or English in origin, then they are almost certainly Protestant. Eg Douglas, Cameron, Sandy, Glenn, Mervyn, Colin, Trevor.

Of course, this is just a generalisation. There are many exceptions to the rule,. But it is a much more reliable indicator than surnames.

McArmalite wrote: »

over on Politics.ie's history forum where someone said that they had inspected the signing of the Ulster covenant and they could see by the signatures that many of those who signed put down several names.

A case, perhaps, of "sign early, sign often", eh?

Them feckin Northies are all the same.

sweet-rasmus

I have to agree with your rant Dr Pepper. So many outfits! If I wanted to see a zillion pictures of her in different outfits I could have indeed googled them.

I shall look forward to the next WDYTYA; there must be an improvement on the last two! Something good like the one on Martin Freeman or Kim Cattrall; those were fascinating. More of that!

sweet-rasmus

Enjoyed Diarmuid Gavin's one tonight Delightful!

Kev_ps3

Find it interesting that every celebrity done so far, not one is Gaelic Irish. Says alot about our society.

pjproby

Says more about how difficult it is to get Irish records pre 1850.
The cost of research on this programme must be very significant.
I particularly remember the programme on Dana, where they unsuccessfully trawled American records looking for a man who was actually living in Scotland, if memory serves me right.