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Did a mechanic break my car?!

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  • 09-09-2009 9:08pm
    #1
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭


    Hello, sorry for the long post but I'm not sure of what to make of my mechanic experience today? I know little about cars so maybe the below is all normal but maybe for people more in the know some alarm bells are going off?

    ...So yesterday the car, 1996 in pretty good condition or so I thought, began to overheat on the way home, temp gauge in the red and steam coming from the bonnet, but managed to get it home ok after stopping to let it cool off for a while and putting water in the cooling system. Later that evening once engine had gone cold I refilled the coolant properly.

    So today drove it over to a garage (began to overheat on the way) with who will call mechanic #1, told him about the overheating as described above and asked him to check it out. He was quite pleasant mannered at this stage. We popped the bonnet and he had a look. After he eyeballed the engine a bit he thought it might be the engines thermostat. He proceeded to unscrew the thermostat off the engine block and all the coolant blew out quite violently. He noticed a piece of broken plastic around the thermostat and put it all back together minus the thermostat itself which he left out, saying it would be fine to drive without it until the part was available for him to replace it. Fair enough we needed to replace the thermostat.

    Then things began to go down hill. He started the car to see it running, but it wouldn't start and he began to get edgy. The car in the last two years has never not started so this was a bit odd. He poked around and said the timing had slipped, he unscrewed something (located above the thermostat), moved it a little and screwed it back. Engine started ok then. He began to get pretty irate about the car saying he didn't want to do the job, saying that their was too much wrong with the car! He kept saying the we drove in with an overheated car, it didn't start but he got it starting again and that he wasn't going near it. I asked him to recommend somewhere else that would fix the car if he wasn't going to do it but he wouldn't say anything else. He just walked away at this stage.

    So I went over to another mechanics place (well call him mechanic #2) straight after and basically said the same as to the first guy. I didn't mention the incident with mechanic #1 as I wanted to see what mechanic #2 take on the car was. He said he'd check it out and call me later. When he called he said he replaced the thermostat. However he also said that the engines water pump was cracked and leaking and that the timeing belt and water pump would need to be replaced.

    I hadn't in the last few days noticed any leak and I know how much a timing belt can cost to be replaced.

    Could mechanic#1 have damaged the car when opening up the thermostat and when the coolant blew out as his reactions and mannerisms were very strange and rude after the engine wouldn't start, or is this just a coincidence and perhaps we caught him on a bad day and the water pump/timing belt was feicked anyway??

    Interested to hear anyone's opinion on this, thanks.


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    #2
    thethedev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭thethedev


    Hi, its possible that it was infact your water pump.
    Some engines such as those found in older suzuki's 1.0-1.3 will require that the timing belt be removed in order to remove the water pump. Most mechanics would see it as good practice to replace the timing belt aswell while they have the old one off.
    Did you tell mechanic #1 That you had refilled the coolant? If he saw the coolant level was fine he would have ruled out a leaking water pump and suspected your thermostat.
    I hope that helps clarify things a bit for you.


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    #3
    BostonB
    Closed Accounts Posts: 18,056 ✭✭✭✭BostonB


    I doubt it was anything the first guy did tbh. Might be cheaper to find a other car than start fixing that one.


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    #4
    Hal1
    Registered Users Posts: 8,720 ✭✭✭Hal1


    jim2000 wrote: »
    He noticed a piece of broken plastic around the thermostat and put it all back together minus the thermostat itself which he left out, saying it would be fine to drive without it until the part was available for him to replace it. Fair enough we needed to replace the thermostat.


    So I went over to another mechanics place (well call him mechanic #2) straight after and basically said the same as to the first guy. When he called he said he replaced the thermostat. However he also said that the engines water pump was cracked and leaking and that the timeing belt and water pump would need to be replaced.

    Ding, ding! maybe he wasn't bullsh/tting you? sounds like the car broke the mechanic. ;)


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    #5
    sundodger5
    Registered Users Posts: 1,152 ✭✭✭sundodger5


    no the car was broken before the mechanic got at it. is that not why you took it to him?
    It had overheated (lots) twice before he got near it and to be fair based on what he saw taking out the thermostat to keep you on the move would be the first thing to try.
    As to his other behaviour i don't know...


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    #6
    biggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭biggus


    Mechanic didn't break the car

    at this stage if engine was well and truly overheated its not worth fixing THIS engine, cylinder head may well be warped and need skimming and head gasket. if this job is done car may start burnimg loads of oil because piston rings overheated.

    Reason car didn't start was probably due to loss of compression(either because of cylinder haed gasket leak or worse damaged piston rings). which in a 96 car is terminal.

    You weren't very truthful with #2 mechanic were you ?


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    #7
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭jim2000


    Thanks for all responces, genuinly usefull.

    I just wanted to make sure first mechanic wasnt screwing me over, his behaviour was just wierd which made me think something was up.


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    #8
    BeardyGit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭BeardyGit


    biggus wrote: »
    Mechanic didn't break the car

    at this stage if engine was well and truly overheated its not worth fixing THIS engine, cylinder head may well be warped and need skimming and head gasket. if this job is done car may start burnimg loads of oil because piston rings overheated.

    Reason car didn't start was probably due to loss of compression(either because of cylinder haed gasket leak or worse damaged piston rings). which in a 96 car is terminal.

    You weren't very truthful with #2 mechanic were you ?

    You're making a lot of assumptions there without knowing what make and model of car is involved, aren't you? Are you like some sort of a special telephone psychic mechanic? €4.99 a minute and you'll diagnose over the phone (AKA hype it up to scare the punter)? ;):p

    OP, what make and model of car? Knowing which car you have will give those who actually DO know a thing or two about this the chance to advise on likely fault and costs etc.


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    #9
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭jim2000


    Gil_Dub wrote: »
    OP, what make and model of car? Knowing which car you have will give those who actually DO know a thing or two about this the chance to advise on likely fault and costs etc.

    Seat Ibiza in the Dublin area.


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    #10
    thethedev
    Closed Accounts Posts: 300 ✭✭thethedev


    OP, how hot did it get?
    Because it would have to get fairly feckin' hot before things start melting and warping, unless its a soft engine.
    One thing about this annoys me, why did your man need to adjust what I presume was the distributor?


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    #11
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭jim2000


    thethedev wrote: »
    OP, how hot did it get?
    Because it would have to get fairly feckin' hot before things start melting and warping, unless its a soft engine.
    One thing about this annoys me, why did your man need to adjust what I presume was the distributor?

    Not too sure how hot it got, yesterday the temp gauge in the dash was up in the red and their was steam coming from under the bonnet. This morning when I brought it to mechanic temp gauge was approaching the red but no steam as its only a short drive from my place to mechanic(s).

    I dont know what the name of the part he adjusted. If I can find an image of the correct engine I'll post a picture.


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    #12
    biggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭biggus


    Gil_Dub wrote: »
    You're making a lot of assumptions there without knowing what make and model of car is involved, aren't you? Are you like some sort of a special telephone psychic mechanic? €4.99 a minute and you'll diagnose over the phone (AKA hype it up to scare the punter)? ;):p

    OP, what make and model of car? Knowing which car you have will give those who actually DO know a thing or two about this the chance to advise on likely fault and costs etc.

    I guessed it was and internal combustion of 96 vintage that overheated badly so

    I'm

    Still probably right


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    #13
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭jim2000


    thethedev wrote: »
    One thing about this annoys me, why did your man need to adjust what I presume was the distributor?

    Heres the bit he adjusted after it wouldnt start. Its just above the thermostat (and slightly to the front).

    enginewa.jpg


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    #14
    biggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭biggus


    Ps Gil Dub i'm not a mechanic so your assumptions are not great,


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    #15
    biggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭biggus


    Altering the timing can get a knackered engine going.

    he wanted the car running and you out of there


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    #16
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭jim2000


    biggus wrote: »
    he wanted the car running and you out of there

    Thats exactly the impression I got, he seemed pretty pissed off about the whole thing and wanted to get rid of me, which is strange, I was obvioulsy going to pay for whatever repairs needed doing so I dont get his U turn in attitude.


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    #17
    biggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭biggus


    On a helpful note get your mechanic to do a compression test before going to the water pump and timing belt expense. This will help diagnose cylinder head and piston ring damage which is still highly likely in a roasted engine.


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    #18
    BeardyGit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭BeardyGit


    biggus wrote: »
    Ps Gil Dub i'm not a mechanic so your assumptions are not great,

    Pft. I know you're not a mechanic.... :rolleyes:

    OP, is your car due a timing belt change anyway?


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    #19
    biggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭biggus


    Last thing mechanics want is cars lying around that the cost of repairs is more then the car will ever be worth.


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    #20
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭jim2000


    biggus wrote: »
    On a helpful note get your mechanic to do a compression test before going to the water pump and timing belt expense. This will help diagnose cylinder head and piston ring damage which is still highly likely in a roasted engine.

    Thanks I'll do that.
    Gil_Dub wrote: »
    OP, is your car due a timing belt change anyway?

    Not sure tbh, quite possibly though. might end up costing more then the car! :rolleyes:


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    #21
    argosy2006
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,210 ✭✭✭argosy2006


    it could just be the water pump that making it over heat,, some cars have plastic fins in the water pump,,if they break up car over heats,, but its easy fix,,should cost around 25-25 euro for the water pump,, and water pump has nothing to do with timing belt on that car,, there not working together,, fan belt works water pump,,, mechanic should be able to fit it in a hour,


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    #22
    BeardyGit
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,946 ✭✭✭BeardyGit


    biggus wrote: »
    On a helpful note get your mechanic to do a compression test before going to the water pump and timing belt expense. This will help diagnose cylinder head and piston ring damage which is still highly likely in a roasted engine.

    I love the way you're intent on suggesting a simple engine overheat leads to some sort of catastrophic head failure.... Give it a rest now, will you? There's no point in hyping this up, and if it's with a mechanic, he'll bloody well know what to do himself....

    OP, if you get good vibes off the mechanic who has it at the moment and you feel he's being straight up with you leave it with him to sort it out. Decide now if it's worth spending money on the car and then commit to getting it right. If that means a pump, belt and a bit of a service, then so be it. I reckon an indy mechanic should have the lot done for you for somewhere around the €500 mark in Dublin.... Leave it to them to actually do the job - Don't insult a qualified mechanic by telling him what someone on the internerd says to tell them to do....

    Forget the bad experience with the first mechanic, and take the advice of amateur mechanics on here with a pinch of salt. None of us are 'hands on' with your car, so you'd be better off taking the advice of the man who is..... Boards and motors are a great help sometimes, but other times (this being one of them) you just have to put a bit of trust in the professional you've left your car with. There's a hell of a lot of good mechanics out there - and the vast majority will look after you on this - It's bread and butter routine work to them.

    If you're horrified at the price he quotes etc., come and tell us, but I'd expect €500 to be about right....And assuming he does it right (and there's absolutely no good reason to think he wouldn't from what you've written), you'll likely never have to have the belt done again - It'll probably outlast the car.....

    Gil


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    #23
    jim2000
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8 ✭jim2000


    Thansk Gil and everyone else for your responces, appreciate it.

    I think i'll leave it at that, whatever was wrong with the first mechanic he doesnt appear to be at fault for anything other then being grumpy!

    The mechanic who has it now sems perfectly fine and Im sure he'll sort it out.

    Cheers everyone.


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    #24
    biggus
    Closed Accounts Posts: 510 ✭✭✭biggus


    Gil_Dub wrote: »
    I reckon an indy mechanic should have the lot done for you for somewhere around the €500 mark in Dublin.... Leave it to them to actually do the job - Don't insult a qualified mechanic by telling him what someone on the internerd says to tell them to do....


    If you're horrified at the price he quotes etc., come and tell us, but I'd expect €500 to be about right....
    Gil

    Compression test will cost 10mins time and

    Here's what €500 euro will get without haggling
    http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/976077
    Full?id=1679768


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    #25
    Esel
    Registered Users Posts: 22,056 ✭✭✭✭Esel


    biggus wrote: »
    Here's what €500 euro will get without haggling
    http://cars.donedeal.ie/for-sale/cars/976077
    Mileage is a bit high.... :D

    Not your ornery onager



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    #26
    Mr.Diagnostic
    Registered Users Posts: 937 ✭✭✭Mr.Diagnostic


    I would suspect that the reason the car failed to start when with mechanic #1 was that the steam had made its way into the distributor cap and condensed. Very common.
    Most mechanics will take a quick look at any car that lands with them, even if they don’t want the job. If said car suddenly becomes a non starter it therefore becomes a problem. Maybe he was under pressure with other work.

    BTW, a compression test will prove nothing as regards a head gasket problem, except in extremely rare circumstances. It is often mentioned on forums as a method to prove a HG problem when it will not.


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    #27
    beachlife
    Closed Accounts Posts: 246 ✭✭beachlife


    If that car came into my garage then i would probably not want to do it either,not because of any other reason than your working on a very tight margin for error.
    eg.
    to do the job properly(assuming head gasket IS okay)
    one timing belt kit,
    One water pump,
    one thermostat,
    one oil and filter change(old oil overheated)
    This would cost around 500 euros,
    THen it may be alright OR maybe the head gasket is gone then another 500 euros,then maybe the ring are not great after the roasting,or the head is warped,
    The thing is if it's a relatively new car then most people get it looked at straight away,(because the car is worth alot of money) which in turn means that not to much damage has been done and also a repair bill of 1500/2000 is worth paying on a 10,000 euro car.
    I have worked in garages where these cars are brought in and the work add up(ie the bill adds up) and the car is just left behind.No answers to the phone,owner can't be contacted. ou then have a heap of scrap in the way that you can't sell or give away because you don't OWN it and eventully you get in touch with the owner and get him to agree to letting you scrap the car!!!! It's to much hassle and the people who wanted there car fixed soon change there tune when the bill rises even by 15% more than exepcted.


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    #28
    kildarelad
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭kildarelad


    Firstly the waterpump runs on the timing belts on these engines.The pump itself is forty euro to buy and you have to take off the timing belt to get in at it so if i was doing it myself i would replace the timing belt and the tensioner and idler if they need doing ( i.e if theres free play in them).He adjusted the distributor in the photo to adjust the timing if he took off the cap and wiped it then this may have been because there was condensation on it. Also he took out the thermostat because it will prevent a build up of pressure in the system preventing it from boiling over as quickly. The mechanic did nothing wrong at all and probably looked all over the place because you were watching him work.Personally i wont work on a car if im being watched by a customer because its off putting for me


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    #29
    martinr5232
    Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭martinr5232


    kildarelad wrote: »
    Firstly the waterpump runs on the timing belts on these engines.The pump itself is forty euro to buy and you have to take off the timing belt to get in at it so if i was doing it myself i would replace the timing belt and the tensioner and idler if they need doing ( i.e if theres free play in them).He adjusted the distributor in the photo to adjust the timing if he took off the cap and wiped it then this may have been because there was condensation on it. Also he took out the thermostat because it will prevent a build up of pressure in the system preventing it from boiling over as quickly. The mechanic did nothing wrong at all and probably looked all over the place because you were watching him work.Personally i wont work on a car if im being watched by a customer because its off putting for me


    Hope you dont always get stage fright ;)


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    #30
    kildarelad
    Registered Users Posts: 236 ✭✭kildarelad


    Hope you dont always get stage fright
    If you havent got anything constructive to say dont bother posting.
    On a sidenote for insurance reasons customers cant watch me as they are not allowed in the workshop


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    #31
    martinr5232
    Registered Users Posts: 2,298 ✭✭✭martinr5232


    kildarelad wrote: »
    If you havent got anything constructive to say dont bother posting.
    On a sidenote for insurance reasons customers cant watch me as they are not allowed in the workshop

    Grow a fu*king sense of humour will you


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