Nutrition support thread

Woddle

Those who read my log and those who have met me in person know that I love sweets and as a result have a sweet belly. I recently went 5 days with no sweets, fizzy drinks, sports drinks and sugar and I felt really good. Then on the 5th day I had an argument with my mother over the state of the hedge, she won and I had to cut it :mad:, soon after the argument however I binged on Terrys chocolate orange, Daim bars, hunky dorrys and Dr Peppers. Now I'm trying again and I'm wondering if theres others in the same boat, if so maybe we could help each other out, our own kind of weight watchers or sth
We could share advice and experiences, for example I've done reasonably well staying a way from sports drinks and fizzy drinks, I've replaced these with diluted orange and sparkling water, it tastes like club orange but my inner voice is telling me if it tastes nice there must be sth wrong.
I just feel that I train hard but how can I get the best out of myself if I neglect the nutrition
Anyway my names woddle and I'm a chocoholic and I would love to see this support thread work.

RacoonQueen

I'll start on Thursday.

Woddle

RacoonQueen wrote: »

I'll start on Thursday.

Thats not a bad idea, we should all make a plan to go cold turkey, the 1000 day challenge or the 10 pound challenge (ooh I like that one), who's in

RacoonQueen

Major thing for me is sugar in my tea and on my shredded wheat. Have cut down on sugar in my tea though. Otherwise I don't eat that much. Coke zero is my weakness and I probably eat too much fruit/too much juice -sugar wise like.

Edit: If it was to turn into a weight loss type of thing the fitness forums superbody challenge thread could be a good read for anyone who hasn't read it.

Blueskye

Great idea Woddle. My meals are really healthy, lots of variety, veggies, fruit etc. but I have a serious weakness for chocolate and sweets and I think I must be addicted to sugar. Actually had a really crappy day today and ate a pile of sweets this evening but thankfully threw half in the bin before I ate them all. Feel crap for it now. Headache and all. Total sugar rush. Tomorrow will hopefully be a better day.

Woddle

Blueskye wrote: »

. Actually had a really crappy day today and ate a pile of sweets this evening but thankfully threw half in the bin before I ate them all.

Such sacrilege
Yep I also think sugar is my addiction, also when you wake in the early hours of the morning and go down to the fridge and eat a few spoon fulls of jam

littlebug

Oh God did you say Hunky Dorys
Crisps have always been my downfall and I've found myself slipping back into old habits over the last couple of weeks.
So i'm all for this thread. T'would be good to loose that last half stone too...

--amadeus--

I eat all the crap under the sun (crisps especially) but I always assumed that a healthy main diet (as in good main meals) and plenty of running would see me right. To be fair I always gain a little bit of weight in between training cycles but it comes off when I get going.

But I keep hearing "you can't out-train a bad diet". And I kind of took that as a challenge

So is it possible to eat cack and lose weight if you run enough miles?

Woddle

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So is it possible to eat cack and lose weight if you run enough miles?

Yep I think so but for me I would want to be hitting 50/60 plus miles a week and I'm not capable of that, I've hit a plateau, I'm now 5'9 and 167 pounds and currently miles ran equals crap eaten

TFBubendorfer

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So is it possible to eat cack and lose weight if you run enough miles?

I kinda tried that during the summer. My meals were all good and healthy, but I'd raid the sweets cabinet every single evening. Anything sugary would do; marshmallows, kids' sweets, chocolate, you name it. No chocolate bar has ever lasted long in our house.

At the same time I did some really heavy mileage during the summer (4 weeks over 100 miles in 5 weeks, the other one was about 90) and checked my weight on a regular basis.

The weight came off at a rate of about half a pound per week, but promptly attached itself to my hips again as soon as I started tapering the miles. I think I'm pretty much stuck at my present weight. Whenever I gain or lose a few pounds it always seems to come back to the same level.

hunnymonster

--amadeus-- wrote: »

So is it possible to eat cack and lose weight if you run enough miles?

no, not in my case at least :-(

--amadeus--

hunnymonster wrote: »

no, not in my case at least :-(

You need to train harder

My diet doesn't really change that much in terms of content. I do eat more when training though and I eat silly portion sizes anyway. What I've found generally is that mileage of less than 25 - 30 per week = weight gain but 30+mpw=weight loss.

Woddle

With 7 weeks till Dublin I'm going to try lose 7-10 lbs, so I'll keep all the food stuff in here hope others will join me and we can work together.

Another possible reason for lack of weight loss is that I've been just plodding along on alot of runs lately, back in 02 when I got to 140 lbs I was running all my runs too quick (didn't know any better) but it did help me to lose weight, so maybe more intensity is what I need.

TFBubendorfer

Woddle wrote: »

With 7 weeks till Dublin I'm going to try lose 7-10 lbs, so I'll keep all the food stuff in here hope others will join me and we can work together.

:eek: That's an ambitious target!

The worst thing you can do is diet for the sake of a few pounds, and arrive at the start line with glycogen-depleted muscles.

You'll have a much better marathon if you're carrying extra weight, but are carbo-loaded.

Woddle

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

:eek: That's an ambitious target!

The worst thing you can do is diet for the sake of a few pounds, and arrive at the start line with glycogen-depleted muscles.

You'll have a much better marathon if you're carrying extra weight, but are carbo-loaded.

The reason for this thread is there is alot I don't understand, would it be ok to lose 5-7 and eat well in the last week, or does the fact that your dieting just mess up your muscles and their ability to store glycogen?

RacoonQueen

If you eat the right kinds of foods you will lose weight and it won't have a negative effect your running. If you're comsuning about 300 - 400 calories on a daily basis from crappy foods like biscuits, sweets, fizzy drinks and cut them out you will drop weight without depriving yourself of fuel. Keep a food log, make sure you're getting enough protein - to repair the muscles post exercise and it'll help with fat loss and it'll help you make sure you're eating the right kind of carbs.

hunnymonster

Woddle, do you use anything like fitday or sparkspeople? I've found fitday very useful. Aim to eat 500 calories less than you use each day but for 2-3 days before the marathon, eat the same as you use. That should see you properly glycogened up.

ike

I've found just like the training you have to do everything gradually, I've tried to get the basics right from the start but its amazing the amout of junk calories you can pick during the day. Its also easy to fool yourself that when you're training hard you can eat lots of cake and sweets etc.

I don't deny myself them but rather limit when and the amount. Its hard to go cold turkey on the sugary stuff. A couple of simple examples I used to take 2 large spoons of sugar in my coffee, Over a couple of weeks I brough it down to 1.5, then 1 and now a half. I recently tried a cup with 2 spoon and had to cuck it out it tasted so sweet. Also used to have 3 biscuits with my mid morning break but now it just a cup of coffee and a apple about half and hour later. I find a huge brekkie really helps.

It very hard to do tho, I recently totall clean for nearly 2 weeks and the difference was amazing lost close on 5lbs

Sugar is an addiction tho, I try and look at food as something to fuel me not to please me.

TFBubendorfer

I once tried a food diary, and the sums didn't add up. I think it was down to portion size. If you have, say, one bowl of cereal, how do you know how many calories are in there? I'm not going to weigh my flakes, first thing in the morning, fuhgeddaboudit.

I got the impression that the calories mentioned in most guides for thing like corn flakes are truly skimpy portions, and I would simply eat two of them without even realising. I guess the same happened at dinner time, which is why the food diary was utterly worthless for me.

HardyEustace

Woddle wrote: »

With 7 weeks till Dublin I'm going to try lose 7-10 lbs, so I'll keep all the food stuff in here hope others will join me and we can work together.

Another possible reason for lack of weight loss is that I've been just plodding along on alot of runs lately, back in 02 when I got to 140 lbs I was running all my runs too quick (didn't know any better) but it did help me to lose weight, so maybe more intensity is what I need.

me, me, me too. I'm a blimp right now. Would be aiming for the same weight loss as well, as nothing fits anymore and it's frankly depressing.

shels4ever

What i've found is that I try to eat depending on the amount of training im doing, so if i'm doing lee try to eat less but doesnt always work. No harm having the odd treat for yourself , There nothing I wont eat ... Was out for my Bday last week and the wife ordered some shark lips and duck feet soup for me.. might need to cut down on that..

RacoonQueen

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I once tried a food diary, and the sums didn't add up. I think it was down to portion size. If you have, say, one bowl of cereal, how do you know how many calories are in there? I'm not going to weigh my flakes, first thing in the morning, fuhgeddaboudit.

I got the impression that the calories mentioned in most guides for thing like corn flakes are truly skimpy portions, and I would simply eat two of them without even realising. I guess the same happened at dinner time, which is why the food diary was utterly worthless for me.

Pour your normal bowl of cereal and weigh it. You only have to do it once to get a general idea. Most people would have two 'servings' in one bowl.

HardyEustace

You actually need far less food than you think.

I calculated the calories that I needed from the Anita Bean food for fitness book and I needed to eat only 1600 calories a day to lose weight (this was taking account of my training).

It's not difficult to go over that.

I never used to have a sweet tooth but between giving up smoking and switching my "treat" focus from that of the liquid variety to that of the dessert variety I've piled on the weight. <<sigh>>

Still it didn't go on overnight and it's no mystery how it went on. Good eating and moderation are the key I suspect. Sadly there's no magic solution.

metamorphosis

I do get a very balanced diet full of fruit/veg/fish/lean meat/nuts/legumes ... and then there's chocolate. i love dark choc and sometimes i ould polsih off bar after bar off it. not good.

also peanut butter i could make my way through a kiko a day easily if i wanted to.
mainly chocolate and jaffa cakes.nomnomnom

metamorphosis

HardyEustace wrote: »

You actually need far less food than you think.

I calculated the calories that I needed from the Anita Bean food for fitness book and I needed to eat only 1600 calories a day to lose weight (this was taking account of my training).

It's not difficult to go over that.

I never used to have a sweet tooth but between giving up smoking and switching my "treat" focus from that of the liquid variety to that of the dessert variety I've piled on the weight. <<sigh>>

Still it didn't go on overnight and it's no mystery how it went on. Good eating and moderation are the key I suspect. Sadly there's no magic solution.

True about we needing much less kcals.
I also read that general rule of thumb is 12 cals per pound of bodyweight which for me is like 1900isk kclas. i an easily eat over that every day

metamorphosis

hunnymonster wrote: »

Woddle, do you use anything like fitday or sparkspeople? I've found fitday very useful. Aim to eat 500 calories less than you use each day but for 2-3 days before the marathon, eat the same as you use. That should see you properly glycogened up.

HM - i was thinking that say for DCM that that sun-wed id eat very high fat high protein diet mainly nuts, nut butters, eggs, meat, fish greens cottage cheese etc and then from thurs on carb up. Would this be effective in getting those glycogen stores up or am i just over thinking this?

hunnymonster

why the high fat/high protein early in the week? I'd just stick to a balanced breakdown of macro nutrients early in the week and for 2 days before the race drop the fat right down. Some people also drop the protein down as well but my (personal) opinion is that good quality, low fat proteins are so important that I keep them in there. quantities are vital. Remember, you'll be doing a lot less running race week so your needs will be less.

MCOS

In the last week I've been doing 25% of my usual training volume, eating a bigger breakfast and I've dropped from 81 to 79kg!

How? Dropped chocolate and biscuits (reluctantly) and am sleeping more.

The bigger breakfast offsets the usual sugary snacks I'd have during the day (in terms of sustained energy NOT calories) and more sleep means earlier nights and so I'm not eating so late. Late night craving for hot choc with a packet of choc hob nobs dunked in has been replaced with a bowl of alpen or crunchy nut and a few spoons of Youghurt.

My family have commented that I have lost weight and look guant, yet my friends have commented that I look relaxed, energetic and younger

TFBubendorfer

RacoonQueen wrote: »

Pour your normal bowl of cereal and weigh it. You only have to do it once to get a general idea. Most people would have two 'servings' in one bowl.

Yes, I've come to the "most people have two servings in one bowl" conclusion as well.

However, I think that as long as I weigh myself regularly I don't need to count calories. If my weight goes up I'm consuming more than I burn, and the other way round. As I have a pretty good idea what I have eaten in the last few days, and how many miles I've trained, I tend to know what I should cut.

Anyway, I know pretty damn well that it's always the chocolate and sweets in the sweets cupboard that's to blame. I don't need a food diary to know this. It's how I stay off them that's the big unknown.

MCOS

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Yes, I've come to the "most people have two servings in one bowl" conclusion as well.

However, I think that as long as I weigh myself regularly I don't need to count calories. If my weight goes up I'm consuming more than I burn, and the other way round. As I have a pretty good idea what I have eaten in the last few days, and how many miles I've trained, I tend to know what I should cut.

Anyway, I know pretty damn well that it's always the chocolate and sweets in the sweets cupboard that's to blame. I don't need a food diary to know this. It's how I stay off them that's the big unknown.

+1 on the sweets cupboard

I just had Shredded wheat for my breakie (with a banana chopped in). They make it fairly easy to work out a portion in that there are 2 Biscuits in each pack in the box. So 4 biscuits + 2 bananas was a double helping then!

TFBubendorfer

ULstudent wrote: »

HM - i was thinking that say for DCM that that sun-wed id eat very high fat high protein diet mainly nuts, nut butters, eggs, meat, fish greens cottage cheese etc and then from thurs on carb up. Would this be effective in getting those glycogen stores up or am i just over thinking this?

That's the carbo depletion/carbo loading routine that was in vogue quite a few years ago but has been pretty much abandoned since then. The low carbs days will leave you in a bad mood and injury prone due to depleted glycogen in the muscles, and it has negligible benefits for the amount of carbs you can load in the last days before the marathon.

I'd recommend you eat a normal diet and load up on carbs over the last 2/3 days instead, if you think that's needed.

Blueskye

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Anyway, I know pretty damn well that it's always the chocolate and sweets in the sweets cupboard that's to blame. I don't need a food diary to know this. It's how I stay off them that's the big unknown.

Exactly!! If I just ate my normal meals and didn't eat the chocolate/sweets I wouldn't have this little belly. But the problem is how! I can be full of motivation in the morning, have a great day food-wise and by evening feel I deserve something sweet. I just don't seem to learn. But today is a new day and let's see how it goes.

mitresize5

I am not alone - thank Christ for that

Every day the same routine, eat a really healthy and balanced diet and train most days, then bang come 8pm its the Moro's/Boasters/KitKats.

I've left the house at 10pm to go to the shop I've craved it so much - surly this is an addiction.

Anyone any ideas how to break it - is cold turkey the only solution

HardyEustace

mitresize5 wrote: »

I am not alone - thank Christ for that

Every day the same routine, eat a really healthy and balanced diet and train most days, then bang come 8pm its the Moro's/Boasters/KitKats.

I've left the house at 10pm to go to the shop I've craved it so much - surly this is an addiction.

Anyone any ideas how to break it - is cold turkey the only solution

I think ultimately cold turkey is the only solution and I think that ultimately after about a month you won't want chocolate anymore. Try and distract yourself. Try and find alternative ways of rewarding yourself (good book, nice bath). Don't have it in the house, I can't rest if there's a savoury snack in the house.

Take responsibility for the food that you put in your mouth.

MCOS

mitresize5 wrote: »

I am not alone - thank Christ for that

Every day the same routine, eat a really healthy and balanced diet and train most days, then bang come 8pm its the Moro's/Boasters/KitKats.

I've left the house at 10pm to go to the shop I've craved it so much - surly this is an addiction.

Anyone any ideas how to break it - is cold turkey the only solution

Not having it in the house helps. But then you can always go to the shop as you said. Its just willpower. If it is hunger just have some toast or some cereal. If it is just that sugary craving then do whatever works. I'm a sadist, I went out and bought 4 packs of choc hob nobs and haven't touched them since I bought them on Saturday. I keep thinking about the race and the fact that I can eat the lot on Sunday if I want I'm not always this disciplined, I'm just sharpening up the diet for race week.

Hrududu

But the problem is how! I can be full of motivation in the morning, have a great day food-wise and by evening feel I deserve something sweet.

That's exactly the same as me. Like another poster I'd leave the house to get it if I hadn't bought it earlier. I eventually got out of the habit by tricking myself. I knew all it was was a habit so I challenged myself to stop doing it for a month. Because there was an endpoint in sight it wasn't like I was saying "well no more chocolate for you ever." But once the month was up the habit had been broken. I'd still have a treat on a weekend evening though.

Still have plenty of other habits to break though.

misty floyd

I came across this article on boards from Time magazine about 'Why Exercise won't make you thin': http://www.time.com/time/health/article/0,8599,1914857,00.html It should be titled 'why exercise ALONE won't make you thin'.

Basically, it argues that once you train a little or a lot, you tend to overeat. Its worth a read. This is exactly what I was doing for ages and not seeing the results. 'Treating' myself with bars or crisps because I completed an LSR that day. One saturday a good few weeks ago, I had take away, a mint aero (mmm) and 10 bags of crisps one after the other. Washed down with a few glasses of wine. Stupid.

I've said this before (and got slagged ) but I find it helpful to simply think before I grab a bar or go to a vending machine in work. I think of how long I will enjoy the bar/crisps compared with how long I'll have to run to burn it off. Also, think about how pissed off you'll be for eating it. Its just not worth it.

I don't know about the cold turkey approach though. If you fall off the wagon, you generally think, "feck it I may aswell have more".

Boozing, on the other hand, is hard to get around. Is there much difference in low calorie beers like coors and normal beers? I'd imagine spirits with diet mixer are low calorie?

Has anyone tried those crispie Galaxy's? Christ they are good

sideswipe

Has anyone tried those crispie Galaxy's? Christ they are good

I hear ya. my weakness is the big 'share' bags of Minstrels and a pint of milk after a LSR. Problem is I never share them!

tisnotover

all this talk of food has made me hungry, i'm off to to the snack machine!!;)

TFBubendorfer

HardyEustace wrote: »

Don't have it in the house, I can't rest if there's a savoury snack in the house.

Since I'm sharing the house with one wife and 4 kids, having no snacks or sweets in the house is not a realistic option. I could throw all of them out of the house, but that may be a tad extreme.

HardyEustace wrote: »

Take responsibility for the food that you put in your mouth.

I don't think anyone on this thread has blamed anyone but themselves for anything they've eaten.

gerard65

The 2euro shops are my downfall. I've often stocked up on junk for little or nothing and gorged myself. Also crisps and cheese:( I could happly sit watching tele eating a block of cheese.

HardyEustace

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

Since I'm sharing the house with one wife and 4 kids, having no snacks or sweets in the house is not a realistic option. I could throw all of them out of the house, but that may be a tad extreme.

combination lock on the treats box? Though you'll know that you hit rock bottom when you're bribing your child for the numbers!

TFBubendorfer wrote: »

I don't think anyone on this thread has blamed anyone but themselves for anything they've eaten.

True, sorry if that sounded a bit preachy. It was more to demonstrate a point that was important to me rather than a waggy finger, teacher move.

tunney

HardyEustace wrote: »

I think ultimately cold turkey is the only solution and I think that ultimately after about a month you won't want chocolate anymore. Try and distract yourself. Try and find alternative ways of rewarding yourself (good book, nice bath). Don't have it in the house, I can't rest if there's a savoury snack in the house.

Take responsibility for the food that you put in your mouth.

a multivit high in selenium (i think it is) helps break the cravings.

Running Bing

Woddle wrote: »

Those who read my log and those who have met me in person know that I love sweets and as a result have a sweet belly. I recently went 5 days with no sweets, fizzy drinks, sports drinks and sugar and I felt really good. Then on the 5th day I had an argument with my mother over the state of the hedge, she won and I had to cut it :mad:, soon after the argument however I binged on Terrys chocolate orange, Daim bars, hunky dorrys and Dr Peppers. Now I'm trying again and I'm wondering if theres others in the same boat, if so maybe we could help each other out, our own kind of weight watchers or sth
We could share advice and experiences, for example I've done reasonably well staying a way from sports drinks and fizzy drinks, I've replaced these with diluted orange and sparkling water, it tastes like club orange but my inner voice is telling me if it tastes nice there must be sth wrong.
I just feel that I train hard but how can I get the best out of myself if I neglect the nutrition
Anyway my names woddle and I'm a chocoholic and I would love to see this support thread work.

Just my two cents but I dont think that's a great idea.


I think dieting is the hardest thing in the world so the trick is to have a good diet without dieting.

I think you need to gradually implement it and find good substitutes. Gradually phase in good stuff, whilst phasing out the bad.

For example if you eat 5 curries a week you cant just say "OK no more curry", its just too hard...much better plan is to say "OK three curries this week", before you know it your in the habit and then you can go down to 2 curries a week and eventually one (ok extreme example:p).

I think you need to find substitutes too.....I simply must have something sweet after lunch and dinner and where in the past I reached for the chocolate bars now I have some fruit (mango/pineapple/berries.....actually just as delicious as the chocolate) or I make up a cup of hot chocolate with splenda. Now I wouldnt even think of the chocolate bars.

Same story with white bread for me. I used to eat it exclusively but I switched to brown and now I couldnt even conceive eating white.:D

Another thing to watch for is "healthy" breakfast cereals....stuff like Bran flakes and special K absolutely packed with sugar and other sh1te. Muesli is another to watch for as it can be very calorific.

I think if you make gradual changes and break your own rules every now and then (not bingeing mind, I mean the odd cheeky chocolate bar) you will eventually get into the habit of eating well rather than constantly feeling your sticking too a diet.


PS absolutely no excuse whatsoever to be drinking normal coke/fizzy drinks on a diet. The diet stuff (whilst just as full of crap) has 0 calories and tastes the exact same. so from a weight loss perspective dont even think about drinking non-diet fizzy drinks.

PPS Just to point out I dont mean to sound self righteous in this post. My own diet is certainly far from perfect and I wager I could out-binge anybody here.....Ive even been know to take the odd pre-workout binge as those who read my log will attest too.

kennyb3

ha ha running bing i remember that packet of snack bars incident!! good advice tho, i ve very far from a 'good' diet but i deffo think substsitutes is the way to go. even changing from a 250kcal choc bar to one that just over 100. every little helps

kingQuez

So I'm not trying to loose weight (sorry!), but do seem to run through phases of having an OK diet, and then pretty crappy diet. Normally when I'm training I need to keep an eye on my weight cos I'm always worried it will drop. Im 177cm tall and weigh about 60kg, giving me a healthy BMI but definitely on the lower end of the scale..

Healthy diet weeks consist of muesli(with low sugar content)+fruit for breakfast, cup of coffee. sandwich/dinner leftovers for lunch, fruit+yougurt snack in the afternoons, coffee, and a decent dinner (something cooked at home from fresh ingreedients--pasta/veg, curry, fish/rice etc.). Unhealthy weeks consist of coffee+whatever I can grab in the shop en route to work for breakfast, lunch somewhere in town -- kebabs/whatever, dinner takeaway (chinese, indian, mcdonnalds, takeaway) and lots of coke/chocolate. The one constant is tea. In large quantities. With lots of sugar .

I tried keeping a diary of what I was eating, but it only kept going until I hit a 'crap diet' week and realized its whenever I get stupidly busy in work that everything goes to hell--When Im organized I always have proper meals in the evenings, and as a result normally have decent food leftover for lunch.

Woddle

It was my wifes birthday yesterday so the kids and I picked out a nice cake from superquinn. The problem is its delicious, I just had a slice for brekky. Can't wait till it's all gone as I was doing well again.

RacoonQueen

You can start tomorrow Woddle.

Woddle

RacoonQueen wrote: »

You can start tomorrow Woddle.

I'll have to make sure I eat the rest of the cake before midnight so. I also stuffed my face last night in Saim Thai, chicken,chips and ketchup and my wife said I wouldn't get that there.

RacoonQueen

Pffft...just run the pearl izumi extra fast and you'll burn it all off.

rainbow kirby

I'm a terrible sugar/chocolate/junk addict too, but I'm not as bad as I used to be during my "eat a tub of Ben and Jerrys while playing 6 hours of WoW at a time" stage. I could still do with dropping a bit of weight - I'm 68kg @ 1.68m and would prefer to be somewhere around 60-63kg.

One thing I have found useful is to eat smaller amounts of higher-quality chocolate if I absolutely have to have some, a 20g bar of Green and Black's 70% dark chocolate is going to contain a whole lot less rubbish than a dairy milk, and will satisfy the craving just as well (particularly if eaten slowly with a cup of coffee!). Also, I've mostly switched from ice cream to fat-free yogurts or sorbet. That said, I like my own homemade vanilla ice cream a bit too much...