Would you like to see more limited ammo games?

fayer

The title really says it all, Would you like to see more limited ammo games?

I see Airsoft players coming out to skirmish looking better equipped than the real world counterparts they have modeled them selves on but then puling out double sided mag's with 600 rounds in them, packing a tack vest full of hicaps or lashing a box mag on a rifle, this is very very far from a realistic level of ammo and I feel it removes something from the game, namely tactics and skill.

This is just my personal opinion, I would like to see if I'm alone on this. I know my team really only want to play milsim style games or limited ammo games like the international events, whats your take on it ?

Would only having 300 rounds for a 40min game make things more interesting?

Would you like to see ammo limits become a standard element of games ?

Masada

Absolutely.

We need to take the realism to the next level, using semi realistic ammunition loads teaches us how to play the game as opposed to just "Brapping" people with bottles of BBs.

CrazyRabbit

Considering how inaccurate AEG's are, we need more ammo than real soldiers. At 40 feet, the bb's spread out over a 2-3 foot radius even with a light wind.

300 bb's for a 40 min game would be irritating unless you played as a sniper.

And I'm sure if soldiers could use 600 round real-steel mags, they would!

I personally wouldn't mind limiting myself to 4000-6000 rounds per game. I'd have to let go of the trigger on occasion, but I could live with it.

Sod'o swords

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I personally wouldn't mind limiting myself to 4000-6000 rounds per game. I'd have to let go of the trigger on occasion, but I could live with it.

Per game?!?!

Or do you mean day??

I usually take out six 100 round mids, which would last for two games....

kdouglas

I dont believe in realcap mags, but I definitely see the merits of using midcaps.

My theory has always been that you need about 3-4 BBs for every bullet in a real magazine to make up for inaccuracy and BBs getting blown off target by the wind etc (ignoring range of course)

I use high cap mags so rarely that the one time I can remember using one in recent months was when I first got my masada and it came with a high cap. Using it in the warehouse and I kept forgetting to wind the high cap mag.

Midcaps add an extra element to semi-realistic/milsim games meaning people have to change mags and actually think about how much ammo they have.

fayer

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

300 bb's for a 40 min game would be irritating unless you played as a sniper.

And I'm sure if soldiers could use 600 round real-steel mags, they would!

I personally wouldn't mind limiting myself to 4000-6000 rounds per game. I'd have to let go of the trigger on occasion, but I could live with it.

I have played in Sennybridge for 24 hours while limited to 600 rounds and they were the best games I ever played.

300 rounds for 1 game is more than enough, how bad a shot are you ? The idea of ammo limits is to stop the spray and pray approach and make players think instead of painting a 3M square area until they hit there opponent out of luck.

mcshape

I have been stalking players in woodland before being very patient and picking my shots very carefully, to have some people walk in to the game with 249's and boxmags back to back army of 2 style holding down the trigger spraying left to right in arcs into the woods and cover
Its a disgrace, And the one thing that turns me off airsofting more frequently

TheDoc

It makes games more tactical, higher skilled, more realistic and improves players abilities and performance by ensuring they reload under fire but also take care of their ammo allocation and pick their shots.

There can be no debate about it.


Unfortunately somehow airsoft in ireland got stuck in a rut of cheaper paintball....

Dr_Pepper

TBh i think 300 is a bit low but why re-invent the wheel.
Across the water we were playing with 600 and i found it plenty.
At the weekend i ran a limited ammoo game with (admittedly 6 ppl) and i used 50 bb's per hour. I used around 300 for the whole day.

But yes limited ammo always goes down well whenever i ask people to try it.
It adds a huge dynamic and more possibilities on any site.

Mervenut

Absolutely!
That is one of the things i hope comes as the sport here matures, sure runing around with a hicap on full auto is fun, but only for a while.
As we play more and develop more tactics ammo limits are a must in my opinion!

TheDoc

300 for a 40 min game would be plenty, 600 would more then enough.


Defending a location, you dont hold your finger down, with 300 round each man, it will make those in command factor in firing lines, rotations and the like.

It has a huge tumble on effect, ammo limits, to make games better.

gungun

yeah i cant stand suppression fire thats full auto for 10 sec
2-3 shot bursts every couple of sec is more realistic and in turn more fun(imo)
main thing i like about airsoft is the fact that you can pretend to be some special forces guy etc and i dont believe they do 10 sec bursts:p
a kill by fireing 3 shots is a lot more satisfying than 100 shot kills

Sam Fisher

I agreed. Restricted ammo should eliminated the "spray and pray" technique. It will also enhance team work. Personally, I enjoy the whole "check", "okay", "ready", "okay" with my team mates. Six mid-caps plus one high-cap is all I carry these days.

Bernie Mac

i definitaly agree in limited ammo however would the inaccuracy of most aegs especially in winds means rather than "real-cap" a mid-cap would be more effect. In a mil-sim situation for example i would recommend 75round mags rather than 30 simply to take in to effect wind, rain etc.

But I would regulary use 2 mid caps if not one on an attacking side in an open ground team death match and get a pretty respectiable kill spread simply because I do not engage at long ranges I much rather hit the target than waste 100rounds trying to hit the target and pulling my sights to the left or right to counter the wind

But i do not agree with hi-cap mid-caps are much more fun trying to reload under fire adds a realism and a new rush to the game

Leftyflip

Ammo limits? Serious Whale approves.

Tommyboy71

I generally go out with 8 midcaps and, more often than not, even on a long game I don't use everything. I will refill the mags that I use and have them just in case.

The first time I played Sennybridge, I barely used 1000 rounds for the entire game. The second time I went i was loaning mags to other guys to continue the assault/defense we were engaged in.

The last time we played MAC I had to call for extra ammo because of the sheer aggression of the the attack we were facing. That made it even better because it was more in keeping with the real world where you could just possibly run out.

I would urge everyone to try it. It might just be fun.:D

gerrowadat

I'm not seeing any of the 4 dissenters commenting. Is there anyone on the "no ammo limits" side speaking up? We'll be nice :-)

hoplite

I go out with 6 to 8 midcaps per game and most average games I'll use two or three midcaps max.

Most players I play against use hi-caps but it does'nt put you at a huge disadvantage reloads are fun.

evilrobotshane

Here's some dissent - I'm just fine with real capacity, partially because when I recently started airsofting that's what I thought was normal, because my first proper games were Rules of Engagement ones. Real soldiers aren't putting down 30 enemies per magazine; you can find statistics on ammo expenditure per kill and I'd contend that they're closer to airsoft than the "but it's too windy and rainy" brigade claim.

Snobbery between firing 75 rounds and stopping to reload and firing 75 rounds and stopping to wind is bewildering to me.

swiftblade

I carry 5 mid caps and one hi cap. Never once used the hi cap in a game

horgan_p

Midcaps all the way , even when playing aginst players with hi caps.
Funny , i used to love unlimited ammo , now i just lok at the hi cap players and think "aw , how quaint"

hitman_

Depends on the game, the weather and the cover your enemy is operating in.
I choose depending on the above between 3 hicaps, 6 midcaps or a powered twin magazine. Oh I always pack a spare hicap for wangers who won't take their hits on semi-auto and need a burst of full auto to get the point.
I agree with more limited ammo games between honorable players and teams, that's fine.

Stercus Accidit

Peh,

I have 8 mids, and 800 rounds in a normal game, let alone the 8x30 rounds I use at milsims here.

Is this even a topic of disagreement any more these days?

Almost everyone prefers limited ammo games, and the rest just haven't tried them.

Or suck.

Bernie Mac

evilrobotshane wrote: »

Here's some dissent...Snobbery between firing 75 rounds and stopping to reload and firing 75 rounds and stopping to wind is bewildering to me.

The only difference from my experience is that I have seen hicap players keeping their finger on the trigger and winding the mag at the same time I'm sure we have all seen.

I choose mid-caps as a personal choice simply because I find it fun coming around a corner to engage an opfor player, firing a semi burst and realising the mag is out and having to think on my feet about reloading and finding cover rather than just winding a mag and spraying away. Again that is a persoanl choice I have no problem with hi-cap players if thats how they play thats fine this is how I play

A reload (even a Chris Costa speed reload :rolleyes:) takes at least twice the time it takes to wind a mag and so you have to compenstate for that when you are taking fire. Its great craic adding that realisim...and I hate the rattling

(again all in my opinion)

Sam Fisher

Is this a matter of sites governing it? I have played "single-shot only" games and it's great. It adds that extra bit of tension and stealth to the game. It also makes every shot counts. Or is this a matter of not everyone starting the sport can afford 6 to 10 mid-caps? I can understand the two hi-caps and not needing to buy a vest.

zero19

Is this a n00b baiting thread? Jk i like the limited ammo factor, problem for me is i just switched back to my p90 so anyone got a link for some cheap mid cap mags? As for high caps, i got two with my old sig and sold them instantly, stuck with the five mid caps i got with it and i only used three last time out

Evade

zero19 wrote: »

Is this a n00b baiting thread? Jk i like the limited ammo factor, problem for me is i just switched back to my p90 so anyone got a link for some cheap mid cap mags? As for high caps, i got two with my old sig and sold them instantly, stuck with the five mid caps i got with it and i only used three last time out

I don't know what the quality is like but it's the only make I know of.
http://www.airsoftworld.net/airsoft-guns/gun-accesories/magazines-for-ammunition/aeg-magazines/mid-caps/silverback-p90-150rd-mid-cap-top-quality.html

Leftyflip

RSOV and Ehobby have some, let me dig up some links for you.
http://shop.ehobbyasia.com/magazines/aeg-std-magazines/other-aeg-std-magazine/ks-68rd-magazine-for-p90-aeg.html
http://www.rsov.com/index.php?target=products&product_id=3108

CrazyRabbit

fayer wrote: »

I have played in Sennybridge for 24 hours while limited to 600 rounds and they were the best games I ever played.

300 rounds for 1 game is more than enough, how bad a shot are you ? The idea of ammo limits is to stop the spray and pray approach and make players think instead of painting a 3M square area until they hit there opponent out of luck.

I was only joking about the 4000-6000 rounds per game

But....I do like my high caps. You just can't do suppressing fire with 300 rounds.

I'm one of those players that likes to tactically suppress the movement of the other team from max range. I'll stand/hide on the edge of my range, and engage multiple targets in multiple directions at the same time, controlling an area of the field whilst dodging incoming bb's or stepping back out of range. In short, I don't like 'real world' military tactics. I prefer to develop and use tactics that are most effective in my current environment...ie airsofting.

It's a matter of Milsim vs non-Milsim, and I prefer non-Milsim. I can do Milsim in video games.

Lordhogo

Well for me I would of course rather use mid caps so it would be more realistic but being a younger player its good that I dont have to spend that money on magazines and a vest because at my age I dont get a lot of money but of course I am all for limited ammo, semi auto games and mid caps.

johnboyire

instead of bashing hi-caps / midcaps wouldnt people be better off figuring out how many bbs should equal one real steel bullet? a bb is never going to be the same but whats a resonable ratio 5:1 ? 4:1? when everything is taken into consideration? - environment/non hit taking/ the power of bbs (through cover for example)

plus why does it seem to be a bragging point to go on about how little ammo you bring out with you? if your crazy about milsim wouldnt you bring the maximum amount of magazines possible?? plus you should have people carrying extra ammo for support gunners. (they seem to be frowned upon too - crazy!)

reading a book atm about english soldiers in iraq they were bringing around 400-450 rounds each total out with them on patrol in bandoleers etc as much as they could carry.

maybe its time to end the mid-(crutches)cap snobbery that goes on and if sites want to use ammo limits in some of their game fair enough just make it a reasonable amount of bbs, be it in mid/high or whatever cap.

Sod'o swords

CrazyRabbit wrote: »

I can do Milsim in video games.

I can do non-milsim in games.
I can also be a monkey, an alien and also roam Washington DC in the year 2277, but that's not the point is it?

What sets airsoft aside from paintball for me is the realism aspect.
I don't mean everyone with ten 30 round real caps, there's a certain level.
Yeah skirmishing is fun at first, but what airsoft is made for, is realism. Not just speedball with different gear, which as Doc pointed out, seems to be the way airsoft is mostly here.... for now;)

Sam Fisher

Bashing is a bit strong... My apologies if I come across that way. Just want to see more bb-restricted games over the weekends...

Bernie Mac

johnboyire wrote: »

instead of bashing hi-caps / midcaps wouldnt people be better off figuring out how many bbs should equal one real steel bullet? a bb is never going to be the same but whats a resonable ratio 5:1 ? 4:1? when everything is taken into consideration? - environment/non hit taking/ the power of bbs (through cover for example)

plus why does it seem to be a bragging point to go on about how little ammo you bring out with you? if your crazy about milsim wouldnt you bring the maximum amount of magazines possible?? plus you should have people carrying extra ammo for support gunners. (they seem to be frowned upon too - crazy!)

reading a book atm about english soldiers in iraq they were bringing around 400-450 rounds each total out with them on patrol in bandoleers etc as much as they could carry.

maybe its time to end the mid-(crutches)cap snobbery that goes on and if sites want to use ammo limits in some of their game fair enough just make it a reasonable amount of bbs, be it in mid/high or whatever cap.

I dont think its "snobbery" as you put it I personally was just saying what I prefer i would imagine this thread is not to bash hi-caps and say how cool and amazing mid caps are it is simply "would you like to see more limited ammo games?" which means 1 mag that being a mid or hi cap whatever the situation its up to the site owners if they play more ammo restricted games.

I definitally didnt put down and didnt try to, and if I did i apologies it was not intentional, offend any hi-cap users or mid-caps users whatever the case maybe.

So back on the thread topic yes I would like to see more ammo restricted games

Dr_Pepper

johnboyire wrote: »

instead of bashing hi-caps / midcaps

I think your a little off there, i have yet to see a person "bash" hi-caps.
However almost everyone here is agreeing that limited ammo games add a new dimension to the game, one that makes it a lot more enjoyable.

Bernie Mac

oopps left out the important word there fixed and underlined it

Inari

I've never skirmished (yet) and I for one, would definitely prefer limited ammo games. Why? More fun...if you only have a certain ammount of BB's then you have to take everything into consideration, most notable is tactics. If you have unlimited ammo, then there isn't as much incentive to be precise and methodical.

However, I don't see hi-cap mags as a problem with limited ammo games. They can be used just the same. Just a matter of setting the limit in a clear format i.e. how many rounds, how many low cap, mid cap and hi cap mags that equals.

steevee

One of the most popular games played in Fingal Airsoft is "fist full of bb's"
all you have is what you can hold in one closed fist.
Try it , you'll be lucky to get more than 100:D makes for some great games:D

Lordhogo

steevee wrote: »

One of the most popular games played in Fingal Airsoft is "fist full of bb's"
all you have is what you can hold in one closed fist.
Try it , you'll be lucky to get more than 100:D makes for some great games:D

I have heard of games like that before and that seems really fun. Bring as many friends with big hands as you can:D.

johnboyire

come on guys dont be naive look at the voting options and the first post onwards of course theres going to be the usual low v mid v high v box debate and locking?

how about people giving there ammo estimates per 1hr game and how they came up with that figure?

for example

how about ten bbs per real steel bullet - thirty rounds in an m4 mag = 300 bbs - 8 hi-cap mags per game 2400 bb limit per game :D

a limit is not a target by the way you dont have to use them all.

johnboyire

steevee wrote: »

One of the most popular games played in Fingal Airsoft is "fist full of bb's"
all you have is what you can hold in one closed fist.
Try it , you'll be lucky to get more than 100:D makes for some great games:D

think i played in the first ever fistful game in g-tac at the reconing 2 and i enjoyed it too! its a unique game and fun on occasion, would not like every game to be like that though

Leftyflip

Hmm in an hour, depends on the game but usually around 250 maybe less.

Frank the Manc

I use mids exclusively, have done since very first skirmish. I hate baby rattles.

I like the added realism of reloading, especially under fire, and the fact that i have to pick and choose my targets carefully.

If you cant hit your mark with 3-5 rounds, hes either out of the range of your gun or ability, or theres is something wrong.

I have been tempted to bring a wind up as back up at our site as a lot of the players we get are trigger happy, its understandible, but have resisted as i feel its a slippery slope..."why lug this vest around and bother reloading when i can head out with two wind ups and doe the same job".

6 mids will usually do me me a days skirmish, sometimes 4.

its all down to personal preference, but i do feel that ammo limited games are way better.

It was interesting to see at the last gathering when it was limited to 2 mids/1 wind up the amount of lads that didnt head out for that game, the same fellas that would have you pinned down for 15 mins with "supressive fire".

at the end of the game i was down to my pistols last mag and ended up getting the jump on two lads on the reload, unfortunately for me i sportingly stopped to tell one of them that he was dry firing and the other reloaded and got me in the mean time.
it was still one of the best games iv played in a long while.

Thers a lot of thigs that we can do that real soliders wish they could but that doesnt mean that we should, walking arund a site with a sack10kg sack of bbs and throwing them at players springs to mind.

fleecymanager

changing mags while under fire.....deadly covering your team mates while they reload.....deadly its all about the game play, i recon a single mag or two mag game with as many bbs as a real steel load out, mabey then there would be real team work two players cover while two reload,then move on the, buzz of having to reload under fire,you would not get very far on your own then, hi cap, mid cap , low cap, it would not realy matter but i like the idea of limited ammo games,:p but its good to go all rambo every now and then:p

Smokerkl

steevee wrote: »

One of the most popular games played in Fingal Airsoft is "fist full of bb's"
all you have is what you can hold in one closed fist.
Try it , you'll be lucky to get more than 100:D makes for some great games:D

Ive had my middle finger amputaded so I wont doing much of a fist???? I think its a good idea the ammo limit wotsit but I find it a bit off when people say no Hicaps-- Me for one use a CA M14-- Anybody got anything else except high caps for it?? I dont mind just putting 300 rounds in but I cant get mids...
S..

*DOBBY*

I personally think that if you stick a half decent magnifying scope on somebody's gun and zero it , then send them out to play a game only using semi-auto, they will be pleasantly surprised at the different aspect to gaming using less ammo. Managing to take peolpe out with one or two BB's through your scope is a really rewarding feeling. ( and I'm not speaking as a sniper)
So in essence if people tried this way they would not rely on following a solid white line of BB's to adjust to their target, and therefore us less BB's.
I say this from experience , that by doing this for a few mates and players that I know , they have changed on how they play the game.
So its not to say that Hi-caps are wrong and Mid -caps are right, just that players should see the merit of making kills with skill and teamwork.
For sure every scenario requires different tactics and ammo requirements, so adjust your game play to suit.
Thats my 2 cents anyway........ and I want it back with interest.:p

Troyad21

*DOBBY* wrote: »

I personally think that if you stick a half decent magnifying scope on somebody's gun and zero it , then send them out to play a game only using semi-auto, they will be pleasantly surprised at the different aspect to gaming using less ammo. Managing to take peolpe out with one or two BB's through your scope is a really rewarding feeling. ( and I'm not speaking as a sniper)
So in essence if people tried this way they would not rely on following a solid white line of BB's to adjust to their target, and therefore us less BB's.
I say this from experience , that by doing this for a few mates and players that I know , they have changed on how they play the game.
So its not to say that Hi-caps are wrong and Mid -caps are right, just that players should see the merit of making kills with skill and teamwork.
For sure every scenario requires different tactics and ammo requirements, so adjust your game play to suit.
Thats my 2 cents anyway........ and I want it back with interest.:p

Roger that Damo,
Those games we had 2 weeks ago were class with limited ammo.
Suited me anyway having the VSR and pistol haha....
I wasn't getting lashed out of it in the tower for once, they had to save there ammo for later haha....
Team work and skill play a much bigger role that way.
I much prefer it.

Inari

I don't like full auto...if you keep it on semi, each time you pull the trigger you're aiming and sure of the shot you're taking. That's a personal prefernce of mine though.

Both of my AEG's are JG (sig 552 & M4), and both came with Hi-Caps. I'd like to get mid caps cause to be honest, the winding and rattle irritates the hell out of me. I know it's not really supposed to be in the thread, but could ye list an average price and place to get mids for the aforementioned? Was looking on Ehobby and there's two 100rd sig mags for $14, just wondering if stuff like that is available here.


On the subject of realism...reloading under fire and covering your team mates is realistic, and also adds to the fun. However, being under constant fire (for example) also adds to the realism of "impossible" odds. So depending on the game, it could add more to it. Personally I say lead by example...so if you want limited rounds used, have your team use limited rounds and see who follows...you'd be surprised

Leftyflip

Cork Airsoft Shop have boxes of Star M4 midcaps for ?50 if I remember right and the postage is free. The only thing is I found that they need a good lashing of silicone on the mag lip to let it slide properly, could of just been mine though.

fasterkayote_

Hell yea.. midcap is more realistic. In drogheda typical skirmish of one to one and a half of midcap is enough per game, and that average of 5-8 kills. its really annoying to see a team of box tooting m4s..id love to throw QQ bb's on each of their faces...
ammo limit either using midcap or hicap will elevate our game. To think that airsoft only started last 2006 here..

defenderdude

There's room for and logic behind both hi's and mids (or lows). I love games irrespective of the ammo limits. The withering despair that a huge insane amount of bb's inflicts on opponents is a hell of a lot of fun (especially for them when they pic you off with a well aimed single shot):p

Real war is never fair - why should airsoft be so?

Generally I dont give a sh1t what mags other have - I play my own game. But I must say that mids are the way for me now - the thrill of having a guy in your sights or trying fire and manoeuver while dry-firing is something to experience.
Lets just say that nappy-changes are much more frequent with mids! :D
(yea, and old age too:o)

If you havent experienced it - a pistol game or semi-only is such an intense addition to a game that it's hard to go back to spray n pray, and added to the fact that less rounds is generally easier on guns and cheaper too - makes me more mid these days, but horses for courses and I generally bring a stash of both mags to most sites.

In my humble opinion; they both have their place with experienced and new players alike but for me - mids/lows and restricted ammo is generally where I get the biggest kicks skirmishing.