Best Driver's car?

rocky

what would you consider to be the best driver's cars out there? No supercars please.

From what I've driven, the Focus seems to fit the bill, but then again I haven't driven any BMWs. For the focus, I like the precise gear changes (at least compared to golfs and astras, cars in the same class. And surprisingly, the Fiesta for the class below that. Extremely fun to drive.

What are your opinions? The integra type R seems to be a favorite.

EPM

Haven't driven one but an Integra Type R seems to be raved about

cadaliac

Porsche Cayman for me. Drove a 911 too but wouldn't hold the coat of a Cayman - not really a super car but the best drivers car I can think of.

Biro

It'd be better to seperate out the different classes to be honest. No supercars rule leaves what exactly? Nissan 370Z within the limit? GTR outside or inside? Where do you stop? Also an Integra type R is in a different league in terms of being a drivers car to a Focus. But the Focus isn't about being a drivers car.
You need classes when comparing cars.

rocky

I would like to exclude out-and out sports cars like Porsches, honda 2000s; maybe the integra is better than all these, but this is where I draw the line (Megane RS, GTI/R32). So cars that are based on every day production cars please

cadaliac

rocky wrote: »

I would like to exclude out-and out sports cars like Porsches, honda 2000s; maybe the integra is better than all these, but this is where I draw the line (Megane RS, GTI/R32). So cars that are based on every day production cars please

still too vague, nearly all cars now days are production based cars.
Do you mean the every day commute cars? Cars that we see all day every day?

stealthyspeeder

Best drives I have had

1) Mazda 3 MPS
2) Astra VXR
3) Integra Type R
4) Mini Cooper S
5) 172 Cup
6) E Type Jag
7) Accord Type R
8) Boxter S and TVR Tuscan ( unfortunately both of these were under extreme supervision of my mates Dad :mad::()

My flatmate is arriving this eve with his newly purchased modified VX220 turbo, so I have a feeling this list might change this eve!

rocky

yes, and up to the GTIs/Focus ST (RS a bit out ), let's say 250 bhp max.

rocky

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

Best drives I have had

1) Mazda 3 MPS
2) Astra VXR
3) Integra Type R
4) Mini Cooper S
5) 172 Cup
6) E Type Jag
7) Accord Type R
8) Boxter S and TVR Tuscan ( unfortunately both of these were under extreme supervision of my mates Dad :mad::()

My flatmate is arriving this eve with his newly purchased modified VX220 turbo, so I have a feeling this list might change this eve!

What's good on a mazda 3 mps? from a driver's perspective, other than straight line acceleration, can it corner better than the competition, or what other specifics impressed you as a driver? Thanks.

JHMEG

LIGHTNING wrote: »

No not even close, its a car that all the peaked cap brigade go on like its the greatest thing ever. Granted its got lots of grip and nice feedback from the steering but its a FWD car that has no low end torque at all.

EVO Magazine voted the DC2 ITR best FWD car of all time a few years ago. But shur what would they know.

Atomic Pineapple

JHMEG wrote: »

EVO Magazine voted the DC2 ITR best FWD car of all time a few years ago. But shur what would they know.

Along with countless others

I have never met another Integra driver that conforms to the stereotype LIGHTENING has attached, granted there may be some but on the whole ITR drivers are much older than you think and enjoy the merits of the car responsibly.

LIGHTENING, you may be confusing proper ITR's with the wannabes in SIR's and 1.6 versions with there Type R stickers

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

My flatmate is arriving this eve with his newly purchased modified VX220 turbo, so I have a feeling this list might change this eve!

They are some cars!

smash

rocky wrote: »

what would you consider to be the best driver's cars out there? ..... the Focus seems to fit the bill

You can't ask that question and then give that answer. The Focus is not a drivers car, it's a cheap hatchback for daily use. It has nothing appealing as a "drivers car"!

You want a car like a Lotus Elise/Exige - you can feel everything the car is doing, it has great performance and it handles superb!

peasant

The cheapest driver's car ever definitly is the original Mini ...most grin for your buck

smash

peasant wrote: »

The cheapest driver's car ever definitly is the original Mini ...most grin for your buck

na, MX-5's are cheap as chips these days

stealthyspeeder

rocky wrote: »

What's good on a mazda 3 mps? from a driver's perspective, other than straight line acceleration, can it corner better than the competition, or what other specifics impressed you as a driver? Thanks.

I rate the acceleration very highly obviously, and its top end speed is fantastic! (for this reason the VXR and MPS get 1 and 2)

In terms of cornering, I found that the LSD on the MPS lets me accelerate out of a corner earlier than the VXR, thus making me faster, and have more fun! I also find that the control of the lift of oversteer is very easy, you can feel every movement and adjust it as soon as the foot comes off the gas. The VXR was more abrubt and in the 172, embarrassing as I found myself backwards if I took a flick left then turn right corner as fast as I would in the others! Also the amount of torque from deep down the rev range in the MPS is unlike anything I have driven. And I should mention both the VXR and the MPS understeer a lot, you need to alter the driving style for either earlier turn ins or slower entry speeds to corners.

If it was down to handling response it would be the intergra as you can feel the road a lot more than on the other two above it, however I missed the torque at the end of the bend. The MPS responsiveness of the steering is quite numb until you either hit speeds that are illegal on the open road or chuck it into a corner and you know what your doing! the VXR reponsiveness is better but it is lost the second you go past 2/3rds throttle due to torque steer. The Mini cooper S was a handling dream (I always had a smile on my face and never fear or ultimate concentration!) but you just wernt doing the same speeds as the others!

Basically the most impressive thing about the MPS is the torque surge, VXR, the wildness of the car but the fun you get from taming but driving it hard, the Teg, the responsiveness to steering inputs, Mini and the 172, the fun!

stealthyspeeder

LIGHTNING wrote: »

A mps doesnt deserve to be in the top 100, useless amount of power through the front wheels the same can be said about the VXR. A e type jag may be one of the coolest cars ever but its no longer a class leading drivers car!

Apologies Lightning, I can only comment on my personal experience which is determined but my financial situation and social circle.

Would you like me quote evo's 100 greatest drivers cars? so the OP can read information available to everyone from a recognised and reputable source? OR do you tink the OP came on here to ask for personal opinions with people who may be in similar financial situation and have a simialar social circle of car owners???

Mr.David

Hmm...I would go as follows:

City Car: Renaultsport Twingo
Supermini: Renaultsport Clio 200 Cup
Family Car: Renaultsport Megane R 26R

Not a (standard) renault fan, but Renaultsport make by far the best hot hatches out there.

Others: Mini Cooper (hate it though), MX 5 (again hate it), 3 series, Fiat 500 abarth, Lotus Elise, Caterham

I've tried to stick to <250bhp as mentioned, otherwise the list would be somewhat different!!

smash

Mr.David - you work for Renault?

Twin-go

BMW 225ci M sport.;)

Mr.David

steve06 wrote: »

Mr.David - you work for Renault?

No not at all actually. I work for the 250bhp + crew. But I am semi obsessed with the R26R. Roll cage, plastic windows, bucket seats, semi slicks. Whats not to like? Forget the RS.

smash

There's one for sale on carzone isn't there....

--Kaiser--

rocky wrote: »

I would like to exclude out-and out sports cars like Porsches, honda 2000s; maybe the integra is better than all these, but this is where I draw the line (Megane RS, GTI/R32). So cars that are based on every day production cars please

You're asking for best 'Drivers cars' but want to exclude sports cars? Doesn't make much sense to be honest. You could say the Mitusbishi Evolution is based on the standard Lancer.

omega man

Speaking from the last cars i owned or other cars i have driven i can honestly say my E90 325i is a great all round quality car. Just for comfort, handling and a bit of poke its all i need. Ok i would really love a 330/335i but within my budget its as good as it gets for me. My last cars were the likes of the 3 MPS, Octavia vRS (2L petrol), E46 320D etc. I drove a Passat 1.9 TDI (new model) recently and it was total pants. Dont really get to drive many other cars i guess.

Saab Ed

Ford Puma ....Or similar year Fiesta. No power and yet just sensational to drive. To hell with bhp , you need balls to keep the boot in and the chassis does the rest ( subject to driving ability) 106 Rallye/GTI would be in a similar vein . Handling is often confused with grip. Alot of the jappo stuff I have driven gives a lot of grip from the tyres and gives the impression of being a "drivers car" but the feedback and natural flow of the suspension is missing i.e Honda Prelude ( shocking bad handling car on the limit ).

Notch000

Peugeot 306 GTI-6

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

BMW 320d. Got everything, comfort, good looks efficient RWD and enough poke for most people. Cheap to run and can be picked up on a 04 plate for @ 10k. What more do you want.

JHMEG

Carlee Deafening Speaker wrote: »

BMW 320d. What more do you want.

A wider powerband?

Absurdum

steve06 wrote: »

There's one for sale on carzone isn't there....

>€28k :eek:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Renault/Megane/Renaults/200915192457529/advert?channel=CARS

Saab Ed

Notch000 wrote: »

Peugeot 306 GTI-6

Forgot about that one. Must be the best handling car ever !!!

stealthyspeeder

LIGHTNING wrote: »

I thought the thread was what you thought was the best drives? I was having a go at anybodies financial situation!

Maybe a bit harsh, sorry, but as you say, it is about the best drives, and you did not mention any yourself, while pointing out the negatives of other contributions...

Mr.David wrote: »

Family Car: Renaultsport Megane R 26R

Ah yes the R26 family car with the following family friendly essentials..

Mr.David wrote: »

Roll cage, plastic windows, bucket seats, semi slicks. Whats not to like?

lol! (great car though, I'd love to go for a spin in one!)

Saab Ed

Absurdum wrote: »

>€28k :eek:

http://www.carzone.ie/search/Renault/Megane/Renaults/200915192457529/advert?channel=CARS

And the best bit...Its VRT'ed as a car van so the road tax is 270 odd per year and because it has no rear seats but has windows it'll never have to be DOE'd or NCT'd

znv6i3h7kqf9ys

JHMEG wrote: »

A wider powerband?

enough poke for most people

Biro

This thread is a mess. Limit to 250bhp, based on production models, no sports cars, what the hell are we supposed to suggest? As I said, unless you introduce categories then it's all a waste of time.
Less than 250bhp best handling car with no compromise would be the likes of a Caterham or Aerial Atom. Getting a bit softer you have the Lotus Elise, and softer again the MX5. How far do we go or not?

Saab Ed

Biro wrote: »

This thread is a mess. Limit to 250bhp, based on production models, no sports cars, what the hell are we supposed to suggest? As I said, unless you introduce categories then it's all a waste of time.
Less than 250bhp best handling car with no compromise would be the likes of a Caterham or Aerial Atom. Getting a bit softer you have the Lotus Elise, and softer again the MX5. How far do we go or not?

ahhhh....spoil sport :P

Biro

Saab Ed wrote: »

ahhhh....spoil sport :P

I know, but bogus suggestions and invisible limits make a balls of it.
It's correct what you say though, good handling is not the same as good grip.
And the GTI-6 is a legend car! I'd love one of the Rallye versions, but they're still a bit dear considering I'd have to VRT one too!

stealthyspeeder

According to Evo

100. Toyota MR2 Mk1
99. Ford Puma 1.7
98. VW Corrado VR6
97. Ford Sierra Cosworth
96. TVR Cerbera Speed 6
95. Jaguar XKR [2009]
94. BMW M5 E60
93. Ferrari 355 Berlinetta F1
92. Aston Martin Vanquish S
91. Bugatti EB110
90. Ford Escort Cosworth
89. VW Golf GTI Mk1 and Mk2
88. Jaguar XJ220
87. Vauxhall VX220
86. Nissan 350Z
85. Audi Quattro
84. Lancia Delta Integrale
83. Aston Martin V8 Vantage N400
82. BMW M5 E34
81. Bugatti Veyron
80. Ford Escort RS2000 [Mk1 and Mk2 Escort]
79. Ferrari 612 Scaglietti
78. Lancia Fulvia HF
77. Wiesmann GT MF5
76. Mini Cooper S R53
75. Peugeot 106 Rallye
74. BMW M5 E39
73. Porsche 959
72. TVR Tuscan Mk2
71. McLaren F1
70. Nissan Skyline R33
69. Koenigsegg CCX
68. TVR Sagaris
67. Mini Cooper S [1963-64]
66. Ferrari 250 GTO
65. Porsche 993 GT2
64. Audi RS4 [2006-08]
63. Peugeot 306 Rallye
62. BMW M3 E92
61. Renaultsport Clio 200 Cup
60. Lamborghini Diablo 6.0 VT
59. Gumpert Apollo
58. Ferrari Enzo
57. Alfa Romeo Alfasud
56. Jaguar E-Type
55. Renault Alpine A610
54. Lamborghini Gallardo
53. Lotus 2-Eleven
52. Porsche Boxster S
51. Subaru Impreza STI [2005-07]
50. Porsche 968 Club Sport
49. Porsche Carrera GT
48. Honda NSX
47. Noble M400
46. Porsche 911 Turbo [993]
45. Mercedes CLK63 Black Series
44. Aston Martin Vantage V12 [2009-]
43. Toyota MR2 Roadster Mk3
42. TVR Griffith
41. Porsche Cayman S
40. Ariel Atom 300
39. Ford Focus RS Mk2 [2009-]
38. Porsche 911 Carrera S [997]
37. Porsche 911 RS [964]
36. Lotus Exige
35. Mitsubishi Evo IX FQ-360
34. Lotus Esprit V8 Sport 350
33. Lamborghini Murciélago LP670-4 SV
32. Subaru Impreza P1 [2000-01]
31. Lotus Evora
30. Renault Clio Williams
29. Honda NSX Type-R
28. Porsche 911 RS 2.7 [1972-3]
27. BMW M3 CSL
26. BMW M3 [E30]
25. Renault Clio V6
24. Ferrari 288 GTO
23. Peugeot 205 GTI 1.9
22. Honda Integra Type-R [1996-00]
21. Nissan GT-R
20. Ferrari 550 Maranello
19. Lotus Elise [1996-00]
18. Ferrari 360 Challenge Stradale
17. Ferrari 599 GTB Fiorano
16. Audi R8
15. Ferrari 430 Scuderia
14. Ford GT
13. Subaru Impreza RB5 PPP [1999]
12. Ferrari F40
11. Porsche 911 GT3 RS [997]
10. Mitsubishi Evo VI Makkinen
9. Mazda MX-5 1.6
7=. Ferrari F50
7=. Renaultsport Clio Trophy [2005]
6. Lotus Elan [1973]
5. Renaultsport Mégane R26.R
4. Caterham Superlight R300
3. Porsche 911 GT3 [996]
2. Lotus 340R
1. Pagani Zonda F

cnocbui

LIGHTNING wrote: »

No not even close, its a car that all the peaked cap brigade go on like its the greatest thing ever. Granted its got lots of grip and nice feedback from the steering but its a FWD car that has no low end torque at all.

I have seen untold peaked cap wearers driving RWD BMWs.

Low end torque is of concern to farmers who want a tractor. High revving engines where you have to work the gearbox to get the most out of the car , coupled with great handling and poise are the very definition of a 'drivers car'.

The reality is that the majority of cars these days are FWD and some of them are very rapid and a great deal of fun to drive.

SV

Saab Ed wrote: »

Forgot about that one. Must be the best handling car ever !!!

106gti makes it seem like a boat tbh.


Best drivers car for me would have to be the 106gti, it's a go kart!

R.O.R

Was going to say it's probably this
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/superlightr500.html
but if the limit is 250bhp it's probably this
http://www.caterham.co.uk/assets/html/showroom/superlightr400.html

Never driven one, but driven cars with a similar set up. Focused purely on driving and not creature comforts.

ianobrien

For me, a driver's car has to make you get in and drive for no good reason. It has to be enjoyable making the car move, change direction etc. It has to feel alive & light at or near the limit. Also, it has to feel like the more you push, the more it responds.

For me and from personal experiences, my list would be
* Peugeot 205 GTi 1.9
* Citroen AX GT
* Ford Escort RS2000 (mk2), with the group 1 engine, suspension & axle options
* Peugeot 306 Rallye
* Mk1 Focus RS (even though you had to know what you were doing....)
* Crossflow engined Westfield

Good grip doesn't make a good driver's car, it just makes the accident worse when it looses the grip. It seems that most modern cars have massive grip, but the extra weight dulls the responses at or near the limit. Then when the limit of grip is reached, you're in the ditch because they don't respond well thanks to the large weight.

Some of the biggest disappointments include the Escort Cosworth (massive grip, but impossible to hold sideways for me anyway), Civic Type R (my poor eardrums....) and RWD Corolla Twin Cam (great engine - Pity it's impossible to get the power down nicely)

However, if anybody want's to let me try some RenaultSport products, or a R400 Caterham, my list might change...

Biro

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

According to Evo

So a Lotus Elan is a way better handling car than a Noble M400 for example? Hmmm.... a lot of unusual positioning in that list to be honest.

Bluefoam

Alfa 147 - not the sportiest car, but begs to be driven. Its such good craic, drives like a rollerskate & loves to be reved! I have a 159 now, and although a better car in most ways, its just not as much fun...

stealthyspeeder

Biro wrote: »

So a Lotus Elan is a way better handling car than a Noble M400 for example? Hmmm.... a lot of unusual positioning in that list to be honest.

I think best drives was judged on the experience as a whole, from driving the car. Handling is just one aspect.

mickdw

rocky wrote: »

What's good on a mazda 3 mps? from a driver's perspective, other than straight line acceleration, can it corner better than the competition, or what other specifics impressed you as a driver? Thanks.

I had a run around mondello in an mps mazda 3 on the mazda zoom zoom day and it is an impressive car. The chassis handles the power effortlessly which was surprising to me. Lovely drive, good feel, nice power and it does handle v well.

E39MSport

I absolutely adored my 4th Gen JDM Honda Prelude 2.2siVTEC. What a smasher. Would have expected to see it in the top 100 list above. I'd love to get my hands on an NSX also.

Atomic Pineapple

mickdw wrote: »

I had a run around mondello in an mps mazda 3 on the mazda zoom zoom day and it is an impressive car. The chassis handles the power effortlessly which was surprising to me. Lovely drive, good feel, nice power and it does handle v well.

One of my mates done it last thursday, it sounds like a great car to drive around a track, trying to organise a trip to do it myself

groupb

stealthyspeeder wrote: »

According to Evo

Nice to see the 1.6 mx5 up there. I have a 92' 116bhp 1.6 and if ever there was a car that proves that you do'nt need lots of power to have fun this proves it.

galwaytt

rocky wrote: »

I would like to exclude out-and out sports cars like Porsches, .......So cars that are based on every day production cars please

...why? Porsche's make cars everyday, and some are a lot cheaper than you think, and many highly practical. Ours gets used 7 days/week, school runs, carrying kids bicycles, the lot. And no, it's not a Cayenne.

The fact that it's the best handling car they ever made is a coincidence.

People are too picky.

I imagine a new Fiat 500 Abarth would be a hoot.

_Buck Rogers

I'm surprised the r34 didnt get a mention in evo's top 100 :O

junkyard

What about the Honda S2000? I had one recently and it was a lovely little thing and fast too.

benj

Alfa 156 2.0t spark