New commission report on taxation! tax tax tax

dimma02

tax tax tax,,,where do they get off with all these new so called taxes, we must be the most taxed country as is:::

1.51% of wage is tax (levies + income tax)
2.VAT 22%
3.Carbon tax.....how much tax on petrol/Diesel already, look at state of roads and all new ones are tolled, plus look at cost ofcar tax (bet that will go up 10% in budget)!
4. water charges...don't mind but as a single guy, why should my house pay same as a family with 4 kids, baths every day, washing machine on go all time, put a water meter in and is fair then only!!!!
5. properthy tax...did I not pay stamp duty +VAT when I bough my house which is halved in valve.....

and the list goes on and on....................
did not see much about our elite dealing with their expences....where else in the world (apart from a few corrupt countries) do you get away with expences where no tax is taken and its MINE and YOUR money.....

i am so sick of this country...
tax tax tax................
e should get them out, at least theopposition say it should be cuts in spending not more bloody taxes that I cannot afford..............
and don't start me on VRT.................
Your thought greatly appreciated on what we can do?:mad:

wasper

[QUOTE=
and the list goes on,
did not see much about our elite dealing with their expences....where else in the world (apart from a few corrupt countries) do you get away with expences where no tax is taken and its MY and YOUR money.....

[/QUOTE]

Dude this country is a corrupt country, Did you hear Joe Duffy today? Someone quoted an article from business newspaper that the Doyle chain of hotels in 2005 & 2006 paid only €2000 on profits of €310m.

lmimmfn

ya better get used to it, lol, this is only the start, its gonna be fun living here in 3-4 years time haha.

The country has been destroyed and its upto numpty workers to pay for the hole left by the developers that legged it abroad.

Diarmuid

dimma02 wrote: »

4. water charges...don't mind but as a single guy, why should my house pay same as a family with 4 kids, baths every day, washing machine on go all time, put a water meter in and is fair then only!!!!

eh? . That's the whole point of the water charges. You put in a meter and pay for what you use

dimma02 wrote: »

5. properthy tax...did I not pay stamp duty +VAT when I bough my house which is halved in valve.....

They recommend a 7 year holiday from property tax from the date you paid stamp duty.

From my reading, the recommendations are quite fair

BTW Their report is a recommendation of re-balancing the tax structure. ie you add in one more fair tax and reduce an unfair or irregular tax elsewhere so that it is revenue neutral. ie get rid of stamp duty and introduce property tax, remove VRT and put the tax on usage, (ie fuel/congestion etc)

The reason you didn't see anything about expenses is that it was a taxation commission. That's like complaining that the plumber didn't wire the house.

What you can do is vote in responsible TD's, emigrate or just suck it up.

lmimmfn

id like to pay my 40K part of the 60billion for NAMA off and waver any of these taxes lol

jimmmy

Diarmuid wrote: »

They recommend a 7 year holiday from property tax from the date you paid stamp duty.

Many people paid 80,000 or 100,000 in stamp duty say 3 or 4 or 5 years ago, have made a huge loss + face paying more tax ( if not now in a few years time ) on this loss, on something they cannot sell ....the lesson is, do not invest in Ireland, invest in assets abroad. Too late for those whose lives have bneen ruined by the government , but by God nobody is now going to invest in this country again for a very long time.

Diarmuid

jimmmy wrote: »

Many people paid 80,000 or 100,000 in stamp duty say 3 or 4 or 5 years ago, have made a huge loss + face paying more tax ( if not now in a few years time ) on this loss, on something they cannot sell ....the lesson is, do not invest in Ireland, invest in assets abroad.

Yea that sucks.

The other lesson is not to over pay for assets. But I guess Irish people don't want to be told that the need to learn that lesson.

Diarmuid

dimma02 wrote: »

we must be the most taxed country as is:::

Not by a long shot

jimmmy

Diarmuid wrote: »

Yea that sucks.

The other lesson is not to over pay for assets.

In some cases it was their pension. A pension now in " negative equity ".

Looks like a lot more people will be emigrating and more money being spent up north. What the hell is going on with this country and does anyone have a clue, taxing your way out of recession does not work :rolleyes: :mad:

I hope a general election comes very soon.

ardmacha

It is these people overpaying for things that caused the high taxes, why should they not pay them?

A water meter approach seems reasonable and the 7 year holiday for those that paid stamp duty is good too. If stamp duty is greatly reduced and no holiday is offered for the lower rate then this would disappear over time.

The tax commission report does not necessarily mean more taxes, a regular property tax can replace stamp duty and other changes can reduce income tax.

ardmacha

ardmacha wrote: »

The tax commission report does not necessarily mean more taxes

Of course it does and you would have to be very naive to think otherwise.

SeaFields

Hang on a second now before everyone starts jumping on a bandwagon....

These are recommendations, not decisions. The aim of the report is to even out the tax system over a number of years so that there are not big fluctuations in the exchequer intake in future years like we had because of the property bubble.

If you want people to blame, blame the politicians who got us where we are right now with their short term outlook and big business buddies.

AlekSmart

From the heads it appears that this CoT report is fairly tepid stuff.

There is little earth-shattering about it`s contents.

It does refocus attention back to the dreadful decisions of 1979 which in a real sense kick-started Fianna-Fail`s ill fated intercourse with the BIG Property Developers.

It`s worth remembering that our Local Government system has maintained the full Rateable Valuation and Rate Collection machinery which could (some may say Should) be reactivated at a stroke.

What does disappoint me is the CoT`s apparent decision to refrain from addressing the issues surrounding Taxation vs Social Spending.

The recommendation that Local Authority tenants be exempted from any new property tax appears to fly totally counter to any intent to make Taxation as a whole more equitable as does the repeated assurances that the "vulnerable poor" in our Society will be spared any hardship.

It`s all sounding a wee bit too Political for my liking.... :rolleyes:

RonMexico

Quick question. Where the hell do they think families are going to get the money to pay more taxes?

tlev

I dont like this 3rd tax band business. Or the water charges. Would you still pay if you had a well?

mrgaa1

does the report not say to basically replace the current tax system as opposed to adding ?

AlekSmart

Quick question. Where the hell do they think families are going to get the money to pay more taxes?

Quite possibly by selling the family car.
My own father did not own (could not afford to run) a car until well into his 40`s.

Dispose of Mobile Phone/s.
Somebody is paying for all of the angst-ridden teenage conversations on the Dart/Bus.

Divert the money from this years Foreign Holiday.....weekends in a Wexford caravan are now back on the horizon.

Divert the Golf Club/Gym/Sailing Club membership fees.

Reallocate the SKY Sport/Movie Channel subscriptions.
Reallocate the Tray(s) of Budweiser and other Alcoholic bev costs to your tax bill.

Yep,there are many many things which we have become accustomed to taking for granted which will now simply move out of our reach...we will be UNABLE to afford them.

It`s going to take a while for that reality to hit home but it will.

However,and as alluded to by the CoT reports reluctance to deal with the relationship between Taxation and Social Welfare spending,the real issue is what the DSFA`s customers are prepared to surrender....Therein lies the crux of the matter

AntiPropertyTax

AlekSmart wrote: »

Quite possibly by selling the family car.
My own father did not own (could not afford to run) a car until well into his 40`s.

Dispose of Mobile Phone/s.
Somebody is paying for all of the angst-ridden teenage conversations on the Dart/Bus.

Divert the money from this years Foreign Holiday.....weekends in a Wexford caravan are now back on the horizon.

Divert the Golf Club/Gym/Sailing Club membership fees.

Reallocate the SKY Sport/Movie Channel subscriptions.
Reallocate the Tray(s) of Budweiser and other Alcoholic bev costs to your tax bill.

Yep,there are many many things which we have become accustomed to taking for granted which will now simply move out of our reach...we will be UNABLE to afford them.

It`s going to take a while for that reality to hit home but it will.

However,and as alluded to by the CoT reports reluctance to deal with the relationship between Taxation and Social Welfare spending,the real issue is what the DSFA`s customers are prepared to surrender....Therein lies the crux of the matter

The trouble is when you take that much money out of the private sector economy , it will lead to less money for people to spend in little shops, cafes, garages, small businesses, and then these places will start to close down or reduce their staff numbers, and then those staff sign on and are on the dole, and the government not only has to pay their dole but also has to do without their income taxes. so the whole thing becomes counter-productive. you end up with a small very heavily taxed private sector , massive unemployment, a very large public service / dole bill , penal taxes and a stagnant economy - welcome back to the 80's

Mad_Max

AlekSmart wrote: »

Quite possibly by selling the family car.

Is public transport really that much cheaper? My car costs e1600 a year to run, 12 monthly bus passes cost e1200 and then factor in saved time.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Divert the money from this years Foreign Holiday.....weekends in a Wexford caravan are now back on the horizon.

Weekend's in Ireland for a family can be quite costly. Nearly as cheap for a family to have a cheap holiday and at least have some fun for the year.

AlekSmart wrote: »

Divert the Golf Club/Gym/Sailing Club membership fees.

Without generalising i'd say those that can afford Golf/sailing club memberships aren't really worried about all this.

As for gym, do you not listen to Ben Dunne's ads?? Sure it's only the cost of a cappuccinoa per day!

AlekSmart wrote: »

Dispose of Mobile Phone/s.

Seriously?!

I think thats quite a simplistic view of things to just say cut out all that stuff.

From what I see a lot of people have already shed a lot of the excess spending. People aren't going out as much, getting buses home instead of taxis, not eating out etc etc

Dankoozy

meh, spending less and everything is grand but having to spend it on fixing the government's ****-ups is ridiculous

RonMexico

AlekSmart wrote: »

Quite possibly by selling the family car.
My own father did not own (could not afford to run) a car until well into his 40`s.

Dispose of Mobile Phone/s.
Somebody is paying for all of the angst-ridden teenage conversations on the Dart/Bus.

Divert the money from this years Foreign Holiday.....weekends in a Wexford caravan are now back on the horizon.

Divert the Golf Club/Gym/Sailing Club membership fees.

Reallocate the SKY Sport/Movie Channel subscriptions.
Reallocate the Tray(s) of Budweiser and other Alcoholic bev costs to your tax bill.

Yep,there are many many things which we have become accustomed to taking for granted which will now simply move out of our reach...we will be UNABLE to afford them.

It`s going to take a while for that reality to hit home but it will.

However,and as alluded to by the CoT reports reluctance to deal with the relationship between Taxation and Social Welfare spending,the real issue is what the DSFA`s customers are prepared to surrender....Therein lies the crux of the matter

Jesus my family can't afford ANY holiday, ANY membership fees and they barely drink. WTF are we doing wrong

spank_inferno

You are right Alek, all we can do is ride out the storm.

But the paradox that the government wont see is that if we are taxed too much we cant spend on the luxuries (and bare essentials!) that they rely on so much for their VAT.

Dr Kamikazi

Since my thread was closed, here it is:

When I bought my house, I paid €20k stamp duty.
Apparently that wasn't good enough, so now those b*stards are planning to take another Grand a year of me.
No f*cking way.
When that letter arrives I WILL wipe my ar*e with it, stuff it back into the envelope and send it back, addressed to:

C*nt
Dublin

Bang, straight onto Brian Cowen's desk.
With that letter will be a declaration that I will rather rot in prison than give those fat f*cks one cent.
And I can only encourage everyone to do the same!

Diarmuid

Mad_Max wrote: »

Is public transport really that much cheaper? My car costs e1600 a year to run

Really? Are you sure of that figure?
Here is a simple spreadsheet with pretty optimistic figures (1.4l petrol, 30km per day, practically no service) and I still get to €2000. Are you sure you are not ignoring big ticket car services? I've been tracking every penny I spend for the past few years and the car cost comes out at well over €2500 pa

Neamhshuntasach

It's all well and good saying cut back on spending to the average person. And i think a lot of people have already been doing that. But what about Government spending and salaries? You wouldn't see them willing to cut back on anything.

lmimmfn

spank_inferno wrote: »

You are right Alek, all we can do is ride out the storm.

But the paradox that the government wont see is that if we are taxed too much we cant spend on the luxuries (and bare essentials!) that they rely on so much for their VAT.

hmm, i wonder if we'll be the poorest country in the EU in the next 2 years?

Another 2 or 3 budgets like whats proposed and if implemented there really will be no point in working in ireland. While it would be nice to have a bit of optimism its completely impossible with the current government. All the proposals are simply going to stagnate the economy more and increase the level of unemployment meaning that this could last a lot longer than anyone expects.

Whats worse is if Ireland is still in recession when the rest of europe comes out and interest rates rise again, the longer this worldwide recession lasts at the moment the better off( relatively ) we are.

Dr Kamikazi

I used to be on the dole.
Making a phonecard last months, stealing cable (put a Y piece in my neighbors), having a foreign registered car (MUCH cheaper to run), never going out, not spending anything, doing as many cash only jobs as possible, breaking into the heating system to get free heat,
in other words, spending NOTHING and ripping the state off at any given opportunity, legal or not.
Back to that?
Nah, selling my house and buying one in a proper country for less than I made.
But do it now, if this comes in, property will go down another 20%, retail will collapse and you won't get more than a fiver for your house.
This country is currently going up like the Hindenburg.

wasper

SeaFields wrote: »

Hang on a second now before everyone starts jumping on a bandwagon....

These are recommendations, not decisions. The aim of the report is to even out the tax system over a number of years so that there are not big fluctuations in the exchequer intake in future years like we had because of the property bubble.

If you want people to blame, blame the politicians who got us where we are right now with their short term outlook and big business buddies.

These 'recommendations' are softeners. They are letting us getting used to the idea, before they hit us with taxes.

RonMexico

RonMexico wrote: »

Jesus my family can't afford ANY holiday, ANY membership fees and they barely drink. WTF are we doing wrong

+1

I just about get by and have no social life (can't afford it), if all these new taxes come in God only knows what me and my family will do

irish_bob

hellboy99 wrote: »

Looks like a lot more people will be emigrating and more money being spent up north. What the hell is going on with this country and does anyone have a clue, taxing your way out of recession does not work :rolleyes: :mad:

I hope a general election comes very soon.

any alternative goverment which includes labour will see a further increase in taxes

Dankoozy

wasper wrote: »

These 'recommendations' are softeners. They are letting us getting used to the idea, before they hit us with taxes.

the government here seems to be very good at that, softening up the people before doing something unpopular. already worked with Nice, now Lisbon and they've been trying to edge water charges back in for the past 7 or 8 years

irish_bob

irish_bob wrote: »

any alternative goverment which includes labour will see a further increase in taxes

So stick with what we got then :rolleyes:

We the people of this country are been made a laughing stock by the current government, anyone else couldn't be much worse at this stage.

We saw VAT go up at a time were it was going down in other countries, as a result it sent thousands across the border and the state lost god knows how much in revenue. Months later the Finance Minister & An Taoiseach say it was a mistake but we're still not going to lower it :rolleyes:. We voted "No" to the Lisbon Treaty and now we have to vote again on it. We are part of the EU, have a single currency and yet we pay VRT..... this country is a farce.

BanyaIreland

Perhaps a **** tax would see Fianna Fail put back in line.

After all that's one tax that would cost them dearly :D:D:D:D

dimma02

Look, this report states that its is to be tax neutral, ie, new taxes but a reduction in other 'bad' taxes, ie, get rid of VRt but up petrol/diesel etc....BUT you know this will not happen, they will introduce new taxes, water,house,carbon but keep old taxes in place...you can see it happening...They will NEVER reduce VRT, income taxes are high and if they can, they will put them up higher,
They only care about themselves, the public sector and keeping there wages and perks,
No word on TD expences being taxed.
No word on reducing numbers or increasing productivity in public sector (ie: car tax office opens at 9.30 and closes at 3!!!! Thats a great number for joe public).

yes we need to change structure of TAX system but the C**ts we have will just add taxes while still having 4 weeks off at xmas, 6 weeks + during the summer and massive massive salaries that are offset in tax..........and what about reduced PRSI for public servants............should thay not pay the same as the rest of us??????:mad:

dimma02

dimma02 wrote: »

Look, this report states that its is to be tax neutral, ie, new taxes but a reduction in other 'bad' taxes, ie, get rid of VRt but up petrol/diesel etc....

So why not just leave things the way they are if that's the case.

dimma02 wrote: »

BUT you know this will not happen, they will introduce new taxes, water,house,carbon but keep old taxes in place...you can see it happening...They will NEVER reduce VRT, income taxes are high and if they can, they will put them up higher,
They only care about themselves, the public sector and keeping there wages and perks

Too right that's what will happen, they must think the public are stupid.


I wonder how much this report cost :rolleyes:

Diarmuid

hellboy99 wrote: »

So why not just leave things the way they are if that's the case.

Because those taxes are too irregular. Loads of revenue when tons of transactions are taking place, then when the economy tightens up no revenue. ie look at stamp duties/VRT/VAT.

Diarmuid

jimmmy wrote: »

In some cases it was their pension. A pension now in " negative equity ".

How can your home be your pension? It doesn't pay a stream of income once you hit 60.

Dr Kamikazi

What's going to happen now is that a lot of people will cut their expenditure to:
1: Food
2: Heating
And some may well have to give up one of those.
How will this help the economy?
I for one am going to move to a proper country, where your tax euro actually gets you some decent healthcare and infrastructure.
If you're gonna get f*cked, you might as well get some benefit from it.

P. Breathnach

Diarmuid wrote: »

How can your home be your pension? It doesn't pay a stream of income once you hit 60.

In a sense, it does. If I didn't own my home, then I would have to pay rent. So it can be argued, in my opinion very reasonably, that the value to me of owning a home is the amount it would otherwise cost me to rent a place to live.

[Yes, I have hit 60. My answer could be fine-tuned because I have only a half-interest in the house -- a point I mention in case Herself ever decides to look in on this forum.]

junkyard

It looks as if we're going to be the new eastern block country in Europe pretty soon, the Poles will be looking at us like we looked at them a couple of years ago. We're well and truly f**ked thanks mainly to Fianna Fail coruption over the years. I'd bet any money that if Fianna Gael, Labour or any other party got into power in the morning, within a week they'd be telling us that we're ten times worse off than Fianna Fail admitted to. We're doomed!!!!!:eek:

AlekSmart

I for one am going to move to a proper country, where your tax euro actually gets you some decent healthcare and infrastructure.

Oddly enough,Dr Kamikazi I fully concur with your assessment.

Unfortunately i`m just too old to be considered of worth to any proper European County right now.

I am however attempting to focus my teenage daughter on accquiring a good speaking level in another language.....Any language will do as withdoubt doubt the carcass of this Irish Republic will within two years be the shambling,rambling drunk of Europe.

Anybody in this country who is in a position to do so should GO NOW....Immediately if not sooner,if only to hasten the process of revolution which it now appears is the only method of securing the freedom which our 1916 leaders supposedly held dear.

Fianna Fáil,its members and those who continually voted for its most deviant and corrupt candidates throughout the country have reduced us to this level of penury and they appear emboldened to finish the job in a grand manner too !!!

Dr Kamikazi

I would say Vote Yes to Lisbon.
Anything that would take even a smidgen of power away from the b*stards that run this country can only be a good thing.
Sure, you'd be turning over power from one shower of corrupt criminals to the next, but unlike FF European countries in general have managed to provide some decent infrastructure and services.

AlekSmart

I would say Vote Yes to Lisbon.
Anything that would take even a smidgen of power away from the b*stards that run this country can only be a good thing.
Sure, you'd be turning over power from one shower of corrupt criminals to the next, but unlike FF European countries in general have managed to provide some decent infrastructure and services.

As a NO supporter for sometime now I heartily agree with thje good Dr K.

The notion of the traditional Irish political elite having even 0.85% of a say frightens the shyte outa me and the only problem I have with us "losing" a Commissioner is what plum role we will find for a professional 3 card trick merchant such as C. McCreevy when he retruns to grace our political landscape.

Spike Island and the Curragh might merit an airing in expectation !!!

Mad_Max

Diarmuid wrote: »

Really? Are you sure of that figure?
Here is a simple spreadsheet with pretty optimistic figures (1.4l petrol, 30km per day, practically no service) and I still get to €2000. Are you sure you are not ignoring big ticket car services? I've been tracking every penny I spend for the past few years and the car cost comes out at well over €2500 pa

Yeah well pretty much, my petrol costs over last year were shade over 1k (very light on the mileage), 350 insurance and 350 tax. Aul man does the servicing on the car so saves a few pennies for the tax man to collect later

dimma02 wrote: »

get rid of VRt but up petrol/diesel etc.

That'll be cack for someone who just recently paid VRT.. Thanks for that but we've now moved that onto the diesel you need.

Just seems like the day to day essentials keep going up while wages go down.

Dr Kamikazi

Mad_Max wrote: »

That'll be cack for someone who just recently paid VRT.. Thanks for that but we've now moved that onto the diesel you need.

Just seems like the day to day essentials keep going up while wages go down.

And THAT'S how they do it.
You bought a house, paid stamp duty, now property tax
Bought a car, paid VRT, now you get loaded with carbon tax.
Everyone expected there would be a few % more tax to be paid, no great surprise there, but that was all the country could bear.
If all this will be implemented it will cost the average family THOUSANDS a year, not to mention child benefit being slashed and any support towards creche fees (robbin' bastids) gone.
This will drive thousands of family into ruin and cause them to loose their house.
Then they join the housing list.
Whichever way you look at it, this is damaging the country and driving in deeper into recession.
And the whole "Ireland is different" excuse doesn't wash with me, it's only different because it's ruled by incompetent cronies!

Diarmuid

Diarmuid wrote: »

Because those taxes are too irregular. Loads of revenue when tons of transactions are taking place, then when the economy tightens up no revenue. ie look at stamp duties/VRT/VAT.

Now that the "s**t has hit the fan" and people have either no money or have coped on, the high taxes which were fine durning the boom years when people had money then (or crazy credit) and it was ok for us to be robbed blind, these taxes are now too irregular :rolleyes:, this is all due too bad management of the country, greed and corruption.

In relation to stamp duties, VRT and VAT, revenue has falling yes but not all mainly due to people having a lack of money, it's due to stupid people running this country.
Houses for a long time were ridiculously overpriced. VRT is a joke and that just drives people north of the border as it works out a lot cheaper or they now just don't get a new car. VAT they put up in the last budget and that drove thousands up north every week. Less revenue these days from cigarretes and drink because the prices have gone up and as a result less people now go out. One thing this government has been good at and still is, is to decrease revenue.

Did this government really think the boom years would last forever ? certainly looks that way and now they don't know what to do :rolleyes:.
I can tell you this though, by introducing new taxes to try and get our way out of this recession will create more problems than good.

junkyard

This is pretty scary stuff tbh, it seems that the government has effectively broken every single business venture that was with increased taxes, licences and fines. Fishing, pubs, building, motor trade, farming, taxis and retail are all dead now thanks to high taxes and overheads. They've effectively killed off any chance that was there to generate revenue from any of these businesses so the result is 400 million borrowed each week to pay the dole etc. this isn't going to last for much longer and when there's no more money to pay out I think it's everyone for themselves, this place will end up a hollowed shell or what it once was.

dimma02

So what as a country can we do to get rid of these losers?
How come in the UK when their was the expense scandal, MP's resigned, there, we have bigger expense corruption in all newspapers but not a buzz on the TV news, no accountabaility or no reports, seems alot of media won't touch this, How come they still have the multiple pensions etc, alot of stuff in last budget in regards themselves has not being done.

We should not pay any more tax, infact it should be reduced, VAT, Income tax, VRT and people will spend and the economy will grow,I will go up north to buy electrical and clothes rather than pay 22% VAT...simple!!!
We have to vote with our feet here, Shop around as they told us,My next door neighbour is a garda and is laughing at me with all his overtime and he says he has nothing to do but as long as its there he will do it, cleaning up he says............It makes my blood boil how we the taxpayer are being robbed and taken for a fool...........................:mad:

The government got us into this and now they want us, the people for many they have now made unemployed, broke and worse off to get them out of it, they have some cheek :mad:

Why the hell don't they take a massive wage cut and futher cuts in expenditures and stop wasting money, they should start looking at their own doorsteps first before going to others to bail them out.

snaps

dimma02 wrote: »

So what as a country can we do to get rid of these losers?

Thats just it, we are doing nothing. We just come on these boards moaning and groaning and thats about it. The government must be shaking in their boots!

My wages have gone down, outgoings gone up, I still have a job but hate it, but i have to work to survive.

I never thought that a property tax will decrease the value even more of your house.

Water tax? How about if you dont have a proper water system and sewage system? The water tax is something i am really against. The quality of the water here is awful and the sewage system is just as bad.