Are Killkenny a dirty team?

samsemtex

Seems to be a growing consensus that Killkenny are a team of cynics and dirty players. I dont really know myself but what do you think?

Min

I think Kilkenny are a dirty team if one is bored with them winning, jealous their own team isn't as good and are using these claims to undermine a great team.

They win fairly.

DDC1990

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

Yes, they foul and get away with it... however not more then any other team and it shouldn't take away from their amazing run of all irelands.
They give as good as they get and Tommy Walsh... who I think is the dirtiest intercounty hurler, went way up in my estimation today. I know he niggled away at Benny, and pushed his helmet over his eyes, but he got an almighty belt and popped straight back up.

Mmcd

If Kilkenny are to be considered dirty theres a few teams who should then be locked up by that reasoning!

K4t

Only as dirty as any other team.

They just happen to be a better hurling team than any other team.

than

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

I agree with K4t:D

An Citeog

They're a hard team, well able to give and take a belt and that's part of hurling tbh. The only reason people label Kilkenny as a dirty team is because they can't find any other facet of their game to critiscise.

road_high

Min wrote: »

I think Kilkenny are a dirty team if one is bored with them winning, jealous their own team isn't as good and are using these claims to undermine a great team.

They win fairly.

Well said Min.

grenache

There's a big difference between a dirty team and one that plays hard but within the rules. Kilkenny are the latter of the two.

me_one

I agree. I tried to start a thread similar to this but the tosser of a moderator shut it down. Well here it is.

Firstly I'll announce that I'm not from Tipperary. I'm expressing my neutral opinion of what I consider to be the biggest set back that inter-county hurling has ever encountered.

Kilkenny have been hailed as the greatest team that have ever occupied a field but am I alone in thinking that they are cheats? When a Clare hurler, Gerry Quinn injured King Henry Kilkenny wanted nothing short of blood. Yet their cheating and dirty strokes have been overlooked over and over again.

Benny Dunne has been sent off today for a dirty stroke on whom I consider to be one of the biggest cheats the game has ever seen. However, a clever cheat is he who doesn't get caught but a cheat none the less.

Benny had the right idea with his dirty stoke but opposition will need to be much more clever when it comes to his cheating cheats. They will need to take a leaf from Tommy's book and improve at not getting caught cheating.

It's sad to see that a team like Tipp have out-hurled Kilkenny but have lost an All-Ireland because though they are skillful, ultimately they are too clean to match the modern standards set by Kilkenny.

I wish to see these standards improve for the sake of the game that I have loved for all of my life but as Kilkenny get away with their with their cheating we will see other sports such as rugby benefiting where the best team truly wins.

Thank god others agree.

Johnnnybravo

me_one wrote: »

I agree. I tried to start a thread similar to this but the tosser of a moderator shut it down. Well here it is.

Firstly I'll announce that I'm not from Tipperary. I'm expressing my neutral opinion of what I consider to be the biggest set back that inter-county hurling has ever encountered.

Kilkenny have been hailed as the greatest team that have ever occupied a field but am I alone in thinking that they are cheats? When a Clare hurler, Gerry Quinn injured King Henry Kilkenny wanted nothing short of blood. Yet their cheating and dirty strokes have been overlooked over and over again.

Benny Dunne has been sent off today for a dirty stroke on whom I consider to be one of the biggest cheats the game has ever seen. However, a clever cheat is he who doesn't get caught but a cheat none the less.

Benny had the right idea with his dirty stoke but opposition will need to be much more clever when it comes to his cheating cheats. They will need to take a leaf from Tommy's book and improve at not getting caught cheating.

It's sad to see that a team like Tipp have out-hurled Kilkenny but have lost an All-Ireland because though they are skillful, ultimately they are too clean to match the modern standards set by Kilkenny.

I wish to see these standards improve for the sake of the game that I have loved for all of my life but as Kilkenny get away with their with their cheating we will see other sports such as rugby benefiting where the best team truly wins.

Thank god others agree.

DEJA VU................This is like the 3rd time youve copy and pasted this!:rolleyes:

An Citeog

me_one wrote: »

I agree. I tried to start a thread similar to this but the tosser of a moderator shut it down. Well here it is.

Firstly I'll announce that I'm not from Tipperary. I'm expressing my neutral opinion of what I consider to be the biggest set back that inter-county hurling has ever encountered.

Kilkenny have been hailed as the greatest team that have ever occupied a field but am I alone in thinking that they are cheats? When a Clare hurler, Gerry Quinn injured King Henry Kilkenny wanted nothing short of blood. Yet their cheating and dirty strokes have been overlooked over and over again.

Benny Dunne has been sent off today for a dirty stroke on whom I consider to be one of the biggest cheats the game has ever seen. However, a clever cheat is he who doesn't get caught but a cheat none the less.

Benny had the right idea with his dirty stoke but opposition will need to be much more clever when it comes to his cheating cheats. They will need to take a leaf from Tommy's book and improve at not getting caught cheating.

It's sad to see that a team like Tipp have out-hurled Kilkenny but have lost an All-Ireland because though they are skillful, ultimately they are too clean to match the modern standards set by Kilkenny.

I wish to see these standards improve for the sake of the game that I have loved for all of my life but as Kilkenny get away with their with their cheating we will see other sports such as rugby benefiting where the best team truly wins.

Thank god others agree.

me_one

How did you know my real name is Victor? Why would you post it on a picture of a damaged record? This is serious. Why cross the line? Seriously, how did you know my real name?

road_high

me_one wrote: »

How did you know my real name is Victor? Why would you post it on a picture of a damaged record? This is serious. Why cross the line? Seriously, how did you know my real name?

What a sh!te name if it is ...suits ya though I must say

Mackman

I think its a shame that people are accusing KK of being dirty. Jossling, pushing, digging, is all part of hurling, and just because KK are dominating the game, people have to find something to bring them down with true irish begrudgery.

Get over it people, KK are no dirtier than any other team, and its pathetic to try and undermine their success

Douglas Preston

yes..they are dirty. their entire game is built on constant off the ball fouling, ...if a cork team employed the sort of hateful cynical tactics kilkenny use, then the public would turn is back on them... the problem is that they are so underhand that non-hurling people don't really pick up on it... hence all this 'team of the century' bullcrap we're going to be hearing from here 'til eternity...

Mr.Capello03

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

I would firstly like to say that i wholeheartedly believe Kilkenny deserved to win in the end yesterday. As Brian Coady said in the interview after the game ' the only time the score board matters is after the final whistle' and it is that kind of resolve and poise that has Kilkenny victorious yet again.

Victor i don't know if you've had a few pints or what before you wrote that post but your only asking to be slated. Your clearly undermining Kilkenny's success -one of the greatest teams of all time- and while doing that nobody will pay you heed.

The thread started off about weither or not Kilkenny are a dirty team. To stick with that question and not regress into slating one teams success or anothers, my humble opinion is that Kilkenny are at times underhand in their approach and yes, moreso than most teams. Does that in any way take away from their success - not even faintly. But yes, i think for anyone who saw the all ireland final yesterday, Kilkenny gave away a lot of frees in key areas when the pressure was severely on them. So it seems, breaking up the play is one of Kilkenny's tactics. If they can't dominate a game as they usually do they will do everything they can to stifle the progress of their opposition. If that's what needs to be done then fair enough and clearly it gets them over the finish line along of course with patience, poise, skill, heart, and will. So there is a lot of factors but if asked are Kilkenny the most 'sporting' team out there at the moment - not a chance, in that league they'd be mid table at best.

djScarey

Yes, I too believe everything a bitter Clareman tells me on the telly, because I don't know that much about hurling. But I do disagree with him condoning excessive retaliatory violence. I'm glad Welsh wore a helmet because he coud of been dead and the Clareman would be whistling some other tune.

joeduggan

ah lads , in fairness, im a tipperary man. and in all fairness kilkenny are bloody awesome. and id give anything to see tommy walsh hurling with tipperary. he was just born in the wrong county.:mad::mad: anyway i think you should be playing as close to the edge as you can or i dont think your manager would be too happy.!!!

unichick

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

Tipperary were robbed by a Leinster ref. End of.

blackbelt

Firstly,congratulations to Kilkenny on an amazing win after a cracking game of hurling and commiserations to Tipperary who pushed Kilkenny to the end and could have won it.

Kilkenny are a physical team and not a dirty team.I do believe Kilkenny do have the rub of the green most of the time.The penalty yesterday should not have been.It should have been a free in but the cuteness of Kilkenny and their ability to get the breaks got them another turning point and Benny Dunne only has himself to blame.No matter what your opponent does,you can't lash out like that and cost your team.

I thought Michael Fennelly's speech was very robotic by the way.:D:D:D

Spiritoftheseventies

Re Kilkenny's dirty play, I think a former manager started this about a year or two ago. The little taps on knuckles etc.
But I think Cody probably summed it up best when asked did he think Walsh hurled a little too close to the edge.
Cody replied "Id be worried if he didn't"
End of the day, Kilkenny have a style of play that maybe some feel is not totally within the sporting limits of the game.
What is at issue yesterday was that Tipp were ahead up until around the hour mark. Then a defender slipped, kilkenny broke free and eventually got the disputed penalty. The game ultimately turned on that moment.
Listened to radio commentary of that incident this morning on sports bullet on morning Ireland and Micheál Ó initially said it was a free so maybe that tells you something.

robpurf

i think its the typical irish begrudgery to say thay are a dirty team.they are no more physical than cork a few years back or clare before them.for once i thought roy curtis was talking sense in his sunday world article about them yeasterday.i think we should just recognise that we are seeing the greatest hurling team any of us will see in our lifetimes and stop trying to undermine them with this constant dirty team talk.


finally if tommy walsh is shuch a cheat how come he sprung up so quick yesterday after getting that hurl across his face gaurd??im sure a lot of players wouldve stayed down until the tipp man had walked

mrgaa1

two big turning points - the sending off and the free/penalty. The sending off was correct - no arguments. As for the penalty it wasn't one. The foul occurred between the 13 and 20. Now you can look at it two ways - a free in or out. Personally I'd be giving a free out for over-carrying.
As for Kilkenny being a dirty team - they play right on the edge like all good teams. The entire hurling rule book needs to be re-written. The current rules do not match the way the game is being played or indeed refereed.

partyguinness

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

I am slightly annoyed that Kilkenny put all their resources into hurling.

They dont play anything else. Surely the powers that be should insist that they allocate a percentage of their funds into developing football as well. Basically there is no competition from other sports. That surely is an advantage.

What about their football team?

robpurf

partyguinness wrote: »

I am slightly annoyed that Kilkenny put all their resources into hurling.

They dont play anything else. Surely the powers that be should insist that they allocate a percentage of their funds into developing football as well. Basically there is no competition from other sports. That surely is an advantage.

What about their football team?

they have a football team the same way tyrone armagh kerry meath mayo kildare etc etc have a hurling team!!!

Spiritoftheseventies

I think in relation to Benny Dunne sending off, It seems that Walsh was tugging at Dunnes helmet just before the sending off. Dunne obviously reacted to that but no excuse for the foul. Sends a bad message to the youngsters watching the game.

Professey Chin

partyguinness wrote: »

I am slightly annoyed that Kilkenny put all their resources into hurling.

They dont play anything else. Surely the powers that be should insist that they allocate a percentage of their funds into developing football as well. Basically there is no competition from other sports. That surely is an advantage.

What about their football team?

They do have a football team but it isnt even worth mentioning.According to wiki they havnt won a senior championship match in 80 years so they dont compete anymore.Think last year was their 1st time in the league in donkeys years

hurling_lad

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

Frontal charges, hurleys around the neck, hand-tapping, body-checking with the hurley, interfering with helmets and third-man challenges are all part of the modern game.

It's about time that Tipp, Galway, Waterford, Cork and everyone else stopped whinging and accepted this - then they might win something.

Professey Chin

hurling_lad wrote: »

Frontal charges, hurleys around the neck, hand-tapping, body-checking with the hurley, interfering with helmets and third-man challenges are all part of the modern game.

It's about time that Tipp, Galway, Waterford, Cork and everyone else stopped whinging and accepted this - then they might win something.

Why are they part of the modern game?Cause 1 team says so and its accepted?

Box09

Kilkenny did not deserve to win yesterday. That was clear. Thats not to say they are a dirty team. They are a great team but got lucky for one in four.

Professey Chin

Just posted my opinion on if theyre a dirty team in the other thread so ill just copy it here since it seems more fitting.I think they do what they can get away with and since it seems to be accepted I really cant tell if its dirty or not.

Theres been questions long before Loughnane brought up the "knuckle tapping".Kilkenny have always been a very physical team and its been accepted,and wrongly accepted IMO, because you always hear the line "thats how club games are played in kilkenny".Theres hurling on the edge but the problem is where does the edge lie.It seems to be moved depending on the team playing and since its gotten to the stage of the edge being higher in kilkenny games then it would be in something like galway vs cork. Fogartys(i think) elbow charge on Maher would have been a yellow in any other game but it was written off yesterday as someone putting their head into it(he was trying to get the ball.You try doin that standing straight up).

The biggest problem is consistency.The rules need to be updated or at least clarified as to what is and what isnt a free and these have to be communicated and held to all teams in every match.Until that happens these arguments are always gonna happen.

hurling_lad

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

Why are they part of the modern game?Cause 1 team says so and its accepted?

They are part of the modern game because they appear to be accepted (by all the top referees) and excused (by most commentators e.g. the 'sure the manager wouldn't be too pleased if they weren't hurling on the edge' line).

Professey Chin

hurling_lad wrote: »

They are part of the modern game because they appear to be accepted (by all the top referees) and excused (by most commentators e.g. the 'sure the manager wouldn't be too pleased if they weren't hurling on the edge' line).

And this is the problem.Where is "the edge"?And its only some things are accepted by different referees on different days with different teams in different conditions in different places.The games officiating needs some consistency(yes i know im using that word a lot)

And commentators are full of sh!t anyway

hurling_lad

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

Ultimate Chin wrote: »

And this is the problem.Where is "the edge"?And its only some things are accepted by different referees on different days with different teams in different conditions in different places.The games officiating needs some consistency(yes i know im using that word a lot)

And commentators are full of sh!t anyway

You're preaching to choir here, although I'm not sure of your 'consistency' argument - Kilkenny were refereed consistently all year as far as I can see. They got away with all of the elements of dirty play that I listed previously and more (T Walsh against Galway being the most notable example) in every game.

I think that the solution could be two referees - this would help keep guys honest when the ball is at the opposite end of the pitch and would make it easier for them to keep up with the play. Having four linesmen might be a less disruptive solution. Also, I'd like to see yellow card sending off that was used in the League introduced permanently.

Professey Chin

hurling_lad wrote: »

You're preaching to choir here, although I'm not sure of your 'consistency' argument - Kilkenny were refereed consistently all year as far as I can see. They got away with all of the elements of dirty play that I listed previously and more (T Walsh against Galway being the most notable example) in every game.

I think that the solution could be two referees - this would help keep guys honest when the ball is at the opposite end of the pitch and would make it easier for them to keep up with the play. Having four linesmen might be a less disruptive solution. Also, I'd like to see yellow card sending off that was used in the League introduced permanently.

But in other matches between other teams things like those would have been punished.If these things are going unpunished in some games why are they being punished in others.This is the kind of consistency I mean.

Id agree with the extra linesmen and giving them the power to let the ref know about off the ball incidents.The extra ref could cause an issue in some areas as they might have difffering views on situations and could cause a lot of confusion in midfield especially. I really hope the yellow card system for the league stays gone.That was a farce.An couple of honest mistakes could dismantle teams both on the field and on the bench.The current system is grand but needs to be clarified and enforced

Annuv

me_one wrote: »

How did you know my real name is Victor? Why would you post it on a picture of a damaged record? This is serious. Why cross the line? Seriously, how did you know my real name?

Through your posts you're coming accross as a bit of a nut-ball

Spiritoftheseventies

Say its very hard to pick up on some of stuff that goes on off the ball. Game is so fast as well. Is it time for two referees I wonder in the bigger games.

The_Kew_Tour

IMO there not a dirty team just team thats plays on the edge at every given chance.

There the best side I have seen in my lifetime and there credit to the game and this is from Cork fan.

I think we could be talking about 6 in row with this side.

I did find the captains speech a bit amusing when he said that he had no doubt that Tipp will win an all-ireland in next five years though.:p

MisterAnarchy

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

Kilkenny are without a shadow of a doubt one of the dirtiest and most cynical teams of all time.
They have been getting away with murder for the last 4 years and the GAA are letting it go unchecked and the media are glossing over it.

All this farcical talk of playing on the "edge",pushing the limits,physicality,etc etc ,its all papering over the fact that alot of the behaviour is illegal.
Whats even more ridiculous is when people say "The ref should let the game flow",thats all well and good if you have 2 clean teams but its another thing if one team is intent on cheating.

Kilkenny go out to rough up their opponents and employ cynical and persistent fouling.
Grabbing an opponents hurley/arm
Jersey pulling
Sticking the hurley between an opponents legs when running
Knee in the back while jumping
Raking an opponets back with the butt of the hurley
Low shoulder into the chest
Tripping an opponent
Blatant obstruction and holding the hurley at neck height

The GAA have let them get away with murder by allocating specific referees to Kilkenny matches.
Its hard to know what rules some refs are abiding by as it seems to be jungle rules .

The game needs to be seriously cleaned up and the rules must be enforced.
If that means sending off numerous players in a match then so be it,until such time as the message is learnt than cheating wont be tolerated.

Spiritoftheseventies

MisterAnarchy wrote: »

Kilkenny are without a shadow of a doubt one of the dirtiest and most cynical teams of all time.
They have been getting away with murder for the last 4 years and the GAA are letting it go unchecked and the media are glossing over it.

All this farcical talk of playing on the "edge",pushing the limits,physicality,etc etc ,its all papering over the fact that alot of the behaviour is illegal.
Whats even more ridiculous is when people say "The ref should let the game flow",thats all well and good if you have 2 clean teams but its another thing if one team is intent on cheating.

Kilkenny go out to rough up their opponents and employ cynical and persistent fouling.
Grabbing an opponents hurley/arm
Jersey pulling
Sticking the hurley between an opponents legs when running
Knee in the back while jumping
Raking an opponets back with the butt of the hurley
Low shoulder into the chest
Tripping an opponent
Blatant obstruction and holding the hurley at neck height

The GAA have let them get away with murder by allocating specific referees to Kilkenny matches.
Its hard to know what rules some refs are abiding by as it seems to be jungle rules .

The game needs to be seriously cleaned up and the rules must be enforced.
If that means sending off numerous players in a match then so be it,until such time as the message is learnt than cheating wont be tolerated.

Think GAA tried to cut out niggly fouls with introduction of yellow card/sin bin rule. And it didn't really work. The consensus won out there.
As far as yesterday goes there was only one real bad challenge from Dunne. And in fairness to Nicky English, in Todays times, he was very fair about the game. And as a former Tipp player, you would have to pay attention to what he is saying
End of the day let Tipp players mourn their loss. Next year brings new challenges.

suitcasepink

This is a bit....
For this thread to be started now, one can only assume that most people arguing wanted a tipp win. Straight away I think this topic should have been put on hold untill it blows oer, even a little bit.

I don't think Kilkenny are by far the dirtiest team in the Gaa at the moment and that its because of this they're winning a four in a row, even saying this it sounds dumb.

Kilkenny give as much as they get. Many teams come at Kilkenny hurleys flying and Kilkenny give it back to them, theres not much wrong with that, if your going to recieve it get them to back off by roughing at them, it is meant to be a 'mans' sport. And saying about other teams going at them, I don't think I'd class them as dirty rats either, the team just know they cant match them for skill so they try to rough them up. Perfect example would be *gulps* september 7, '08.

I think it just seems worse for Kilkenny because subconsiously(sp) people are watching them closely and judging them, so they're thinking all of the problems. But say we started to all study, Laois(an example and im not implying anything) we may notice they can hit just as many people and rough them up.

Very few of the greatest players have never roughed up another player. This doesn't mean every good player has gotten a red card, it jsut means they wern't going to get pushed around. Whatever was thrown at them they gave back.

Now I know there will be people who don't agree with these at all, but this is my opinion. I like hurling being a halfway rough sport and thats what gives it it's spirit. Not like all this diving in soccer....
:cool:

hurling_lad

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

adrian280582 wrote: »

IMO there not a dirty team just team thats plays on the edge at every given chance.

...

I presume by 'every given chance' you mean 'when the referee can't see what they're doing'.

Imo, 'playing on the edge' is shorthand for foul play that goes mostly unpunished.

Spiritoftheseventies

hurling_lad wrote: »

I presume by 'every given chance' you mean 'when the referee can't see what they're doing'.

Imo, 'playing on the edge' is shorthand for foul play that goes mostly unpunished.

Its a very fine line what you punish. If you start pulling up players for every offence, the game is ruined.
To be fair the ref let the game flow. Think maybe the penalty was one of his bad decisions but overall give him some credit.

Johnnnybravo

Kilkenny are no dirtier than any other team.

It wasnt one of our boys that was given a red card for going for a lad with a hurl yesterday! Also it wasnt one of our lads came up and kicked Shefflin from behind in the Waterford match either.

If people want to call KK dirty players because its the only thing they can criticize them on work away but its fairly pathethic.

Benny Cake

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

Wether or not kilkenny are dirty or not is an awkward topic, anybody coming out against kilkenny is deemed "jealous" "bitter" etc........

I think what is without question is that Kilkenny are the best in the game at playing the referee, they continue to push the limits in all the ways outlined in previous posts until the ref starts to penalise them......How many times have we seen Tommy Walsh go as far as getting a yellow but never a red....

Teams that play by all the rules are honest fools and will never win anything.

Johnnyjump

D_Red_Army wrote: »

Wether or not kilkenny are dirty or not is an awkward topic, anybody coming out against kilkenny is deemed "jealous" "bitter" etc........

I think what is without question is that Kilkenny are the best in the game at playing the referee, they continue to push the limits in all the ways outlined in previous posts until the ref starts to penalise them......How many times have we seen Tommy Walsh go as far as getting a yellow but never a red....

Teams that play by all the rules are honest fools and will never win anything.

There's a lot of sense in what you say.

super_metroid

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

just look at how Brian Cody bullied poor Marty Morrissey during the post match interview

poor marty was nearly reduced to tears with Cody's rude behaviour

this is a reflection of how KK play on the pitch

yes they are a dirty team, just like their manager when he picked on the 3 foot tall marty

Johnnnybravo

super_metroid wrote: »

just look at how Brian Cody bullied poor Marty Morrissey during the post match interview

poor marty was nearly reduced to tears with Cody's rude behaviour

this is a reflection of how KK play on the pitch

yes they are a dirty team, just like their manager when he picked on the 3 foot tall marty

I`ll assume thats a joke.

deisedude

No, they are a great team who play on the edge but legally.

I do think Kilkenny are dirty. Not blatantly dirty, they dont do any wild pulls or anything that could get themselves sent off but they do niggly fouls to annoy opposing players and maximise their advantage. Pulling the jersey, taps on the wrists/knuckles, messing with opponents helmets. None of which are a hangable offence but not exactly within the rules of the game either

Nalced_irl

Johnnnybravo wrote: »

I`ll assume thats a joke.

Not at all id say, poor little Marty That interview was brilliant i thought though hehe. Anyway, are KK a dirty team? I dont think it is as simple as yes or no. Do they have dirty players, they certainly do but so do every team. The main thing that annoys me is not that they are or are not dirty, but when they are they get away with it more than other counties would. This is just personal opinion on my part btw but in the first half yesterday, there were at least 3 offences that were as clear yellow cards i have ever seen, and the shoulder to the chest to me looked with intent and force and a throw ball was given where i would think some refs would consider a red. Thats what annoys me about it. To say they are a dirty team is a bit much but they have their dirty players alright and are certainly worse on it than they were a few years back but i couldnt say yes or no on this poll. Do they get away with more? Yes in my opinion, are they dirtier than most other teams? I dont know but if so, not by alot.