Access to Lough Tay and Lough Dan

Donny5

Hi, I'm looking to get down to either Lough Dan or Lough Tay to do a bit of kayaking, but i was down there today, and it seems like Lough Dan is completely surrounded by private property.

Is there any way to get to Lough Dan or Lough Tay?

Thanks,

Donny5

JamesM

Donny5 wrote: »

Hi, I'm looking to get down to either Lough Dan or Lough Tay to do a bit of kayaking, but i was down there today, and it seems like Lough Dan is completely surrounded by private property.

Is there any way to get to Lough Dan or Lough Tay?

Thanks,

Donny5

Seeing that nobody else has answered, I think that Lough Tay is out - private. I think that I have seen kayaks on Lough Dan.
Jim.

Dr Pepper

Not sure if Lough Tay is even accessible by public road. I know there's a place called 'Pearl Gates' and a couple of car parks on the road above Lough Tay (between Djouce and Lough Dan) but the only road I know going down towards the lake is private property.

I think Lough Dan is owned/controlled by the Scouts. I don't imagine it would be too easy to get onto it. 'The Man' has ruined almost everything for us adventurous people unfortunately (with his rules and regulations and insurance-obsessed culture)!!

Speaking of the man (and just in case you're interested), I just applied to ESB Fisheries for a sail boat permit for Poulaphouca Resevoir (Blessington Lakes). The same type of permit can be used for a kayak. The price is €50 per year. The 'year' (actually 11 months) runs from 1st November to 30th September. [You can try kayaking without the license for a while but they monitor the lake fairly closely so you wouldn't get away with it for long!]

Phone: 061 350 598 or 061 350 538

Address:
ESB Fisheries,
Ardnacrusha,
Co Clare

Web: The Wha?

Don't expect them to be able to answer any questions or be in any way useful though! :P

/end rant :pac:

Donny5

Thanks for the info. I've no objection to carrying the boat (an inflatable) down to Lough Tay over Luggala, but if that shore is private too, I guess I'm out of luck. I came a across a blog about hillwalking where a guy walked down that private road towards Lough Tay, and it branches off to the left and goes down close to Lough Dan. It seems the last bit would be through someones house, though.

I was thinking of approaching Lough Dan from the Sally Gap over Knocknacloghoge. It's a bit of a trek, but it might be worth it. I'm reliably informed that the North West corner is part of the Wicklow Mountains National Park.

I totally agree with you, Dr Pepper, about the privatisation of the Wicklow Mountains. It's a real shame.

Dr Pepper

Donny5 wrote: »

I came a across a blog about hillwalking where a guy walked down that private road towards Lough Tay, and it branches off to the left and goes down close to Lough Dan. It seems the last bit would be through someones house, though.

That route (from the Pearl Gates) goes right down to the lake shore. There is only an old ruin of a house there. At least that was the case last time I was there probably 10 years ago. I don't think there'd be any problem getting on the water from there, if you're willing to carry your boat all the way down the path, but it probably wouldn't be long before somebody from the Scout centre approached and asked you what you're at!

I didn't realise that the National Park included part of the lake. That might be an option alright. Although, there's probably some rule somewhere about not kayaking (or operating a paddle-propelled veh-icle) in National Parks!! Sorry, it always comes back to the man :rolleyes:

Donny5

Dr Pepper wrote: »

That route (from the Pearl Gates) goes right down to the lake shore. There is only an old ruin of a house there. At least that was the case last time I was there probably 10 years ago. I don't think there'd be any problem getting on the water from there, if you're willing to carry your boat all the way down the path, but it probably wouldn't be long before somebody from the Scout centre approached and asked you what you're at!

I didn't realise that the National Park included part of the lake. That might be an option alright. Although, there's probably some rule somewhere about not kayaking (or operating a paddle-propelled veh-icle) in National Parks!! Sorry, it always comes back to the man :rolleyes:

That could be the case. There is no boating allowed in the Glendalough Lakes because it's a wildlife reserve, although it's only mentioned on the website, and not sign posted.

To be honest, I wouldn't care in the slightest what the Scouts thought. I'd be well away from them and kayaking is as near a zero-impact activity as you can get. Hillwalking does more damage.

The scouts themselves do rafting and kayaking on the lake.

Dr Pepper

Best of luck with it anyway. Let us know how you get on if you do get out paddling in that area. I love those big cold, brown Wicklow mountain lakes!

Donny5

Dr Pepper wrote: »

Best of luck with it anyway. Let us know how you get on if you do get out paddling in that area. I love those big cold, brown Wicklow mountain lakes!

Thanks, I appreciate it. I'll write up a full report. I recently bough a pack raft as a way to add more variety to my hiking, and those lakes are so damn enticing.

JamesM

I was on Lough Tay in '86 or '87 involved in film making. As far as I know it is controlled by the Guinness family.
Jim.

Stonybroke23

Hi I know I'm a few years late! But we accessed lough dan two weeks ago through the Wicklow national park(north west of the lake) the rest of the lake is privately owned -just like lough Tay and part of lower lough bray. Best thing to do is to trek down the inchavore river and down to the valley.lovely walk -and old ruined houses.we did not meet a soul there on a Saturday afternoon. Saw an otter on the river. Might be a bit awkward with the kayak if your on your own though!

Donny5

Stonybroke23 wrote: »

Hi I know I'm a few years late! But we accessed lough dan two weeks ago through the Wicklow national park(north west of the lake) the rest of the lake is privately owned -just like lough Tay and part of lower lough bray. Best thing to do is to trek down the inchavore river and down to the valley.lovely walk -and old ruined houses.we did not meet a soul there on a Saturday afternoon. Saw an otter on the river. Might be a bit awkward with the kayak if your on your own though!

Hah, Stonybroke, you actually did remind me that I promised to report back on getting into Lough Dan three years ago and never did, so here goes:

You can easily enough walk down from the Sally Gap road, down along a forest track then trough a short stretch of woods to handrail the Inchavore river all the way to the lake. You once could put in at Annamoe and paddle up to the lake, but someone has made a concerted effort to block that stretch of river by cutting down trees and moving earth. I think that's low from whoever's doing it, but they've done a good job at it. It's impassable now.

Stonybroke23

I can't understand why people would want to restrict kayaking in Wicklow -it's hardly going to cause much damage ! My brother kayaks freely in Connemara though wild and beautiful .

Tabnabs

[mode note] moved from sailing

Coriolanus

JamesM wrote: »

I was on Lough Tay in '86 or '87 involved in film making. As far as I know it is controlled by the Guinness family.
Jim.

Correct. You can see the hunting lodge from at least one of the viewing points.

EnderWiggin1

A few weeks ago two friends and I walked from Enniskerry to Lough Tay heading to our camp in the park north west of Lough Dan. The weather turned really nasty on us and deep snow and bad visibility on Djouce meant we lost our trail and were badly delayed. When we finally got to the home stretch from Lough Tay to Lough Dan just around dusk, a green pickup rolled up behind us, we hadn't seen another person for hours and were hoping we might get a lift or at least some encouragement! The hostile individual driving the jeep, sporting a Deerstalker hat and without pause, immediately started quizzing us about our destination and threatening us. We were in acute shock that someone, anyone, could see the particularly bad situation we were in and instead of offering us assistance try and intimidate us with threats. I explained we had walked over 25k in the worst possible conditions and were all freezing and soaked to the bone, the truth was if we didn't get camp set up soon and get warm we were looking at hypothermia. This individual who described himself as a "ranger" just kept reissuing his threats that if we tried to camp near his land he would, "find us and move us" I even asked him was there an oul shed he could put us up in and he laughed in our faces. We were forced to go much further to Roundwood and stay in a B&B.
It is a crying shame that two of the most beautiful lakes in the country are owned by aristocratic absentee landlords who reside outside the country, maybe visit their estate twice a year and for the remainder of the year, close off the lakes to the public while they are patrolled by a militant "ranger"

ted1

Lough Dan is not owned by absentee landlords I happen to know the families that own the land around the lake.

Zuppy

EnderWiggin1 wrote: »

A few weeks ago two friends and I walked from Enniskerry to Lough Tay heading to our camp in the park north west of Lough Dan. The weather turned really nasty on us and deep snow and bad visibility on Djouce meant we lost our trail and were badly delayed. When we finally got to the home stretch from Lough Tay to Lough Dan just around dusk, a green pickup rolled up behind us, we hadn't seen another person for hours and were hoping we might get a lift or at least some encouragement! The hostile individual driving the jeep, sporting a Deerstalker hat and without pause, immediately started quizzing us about our destination and threatening us. We were in acute shock that someone, anyone, could see the particularly bad situation we were in and instead of offering us assistance try and intimidate us with threats. I explained we had walked over 25k in the worst possible conditions and were all freezing and soaked to the bone, the truth was if we didn't get camp set up soon and get warm we were looking at hypothermia. This individual who described himself as a "ranger" just kept reissuing his threats that if we tried to camp near his land he would, "find us and move us" I even asked him was there an oul shed he could put us up in and he laughed in our faces. We were forced to go much further to Roundwood and stay in a B&B.
It is a crying shame that two of the most beautiful lakes in the country are owned by aristocratic absentee landlords who reside outside the country, maybe visit their estate twice a year and for the remainder of the year, close off the lakes to the public while they are patrolled by a militant "ranger"

That was hardly a NPWS ranger as everyone of them I have ever met was friendly and helpful. I would reckon disgruntled land owner as no ranger would refer to it as their land. Grumpy was probably trying to further intimated you with a title. I am surprised anyone would refuse to assist someone in difficulty, shows land owners in bad light if it was them or their employees.

Dr Pepper

Just for the record, I came across a similarly unpleasant guy in a pick-up on the way from Djouce to Lough Dan several years ago - probably the same guy/organisation.

EnderWiggin1

Yeah maybe it was the guy who owns the house to the left of the trail in the Valley, as he did keep referring to "their land".

I recommend anyone else that comes across him on the wicklow way, to tell him to mind his own business

Zuppy

EnderWiggin1 wrote: »

Yeah maybe it was the guy who owns the house to the left of the trail in the Valley, as he did keep referring to "their land".

I recommend anyone else that comes across him on the wicklow way, to tell him to mind his own business

Politely :-)

MugMugs

Zuppy wrote: »

Politely :-)

This being the key.

We're a community who thrive on the decency of land-owners and we've a very good reputation too.

Let's keep it that way.

EnderWiggin1

MugMugs wrote: »

This being the key.

We're a community who thrive on the decency of land-owners and we've a very good reputation too.

Let's keep it that way.

Wow, how much land do you own? I unfortunately have been shown nothing but contempt by the land owners I have accidently stumbled upon.

MugMugs

EnderWiggin1 wrote: »

Wow, how much land do you own? I unfortunately have been shown nothing but contempt by the land owners I have accidently stumbled upon.

What's me being a landowner got to do with Kayaking and the kayaking community?

EnderWiggin1

MugMugs wrote: »

What's me being a landowner got to do with Kayaking and the kayaking community?

Well by your comment you seem to be quite confident on how the community "thrive" on your decency?

MugMugs

EnderWiggin1 wrote: »

Well by your comment you seem to be quite confident on how the community "thrive" on your decency?

I was speaking as a kayaker. I would've thought that evident this being a kayaking forum.

EnderWiggin1

MugMugs wrote: »

I was speaking as a kayaker. I would've thought that evident this being a kayaking forum.

Maybe try reading the entire thread, the discussion is about access

MugMugs

EnderWiggin1 wrote: »

Maybe try reading the entire thread, the discussion is about access

I'm perfectly aware of what the topic is and I've read this thread a number of times.

I supported a statement made by another user. We should retain our politeness at all times with landowners as WE (the kayaking / canoeing community) overall have a very good reputation with landowners all over the country

Frankly, with the attitude you're displaying here today I am none too surprised that you're treated with contempt.

EnderWiggin1

MugMugs wrote: »

I'm perfectly aware of what the topic is and I've read this thread a number of times.

I supported a statement made by another user. We should retain our politeness at all times with landowners as WE (the kayaking / canoeing community) overall have a very good reputation with landowners all over the country

Frankly, with the attitude you're displaying here today I am none too surprised that you're treated with contempt.

I didn't mean to offend - I wish you all the best

Banbh

You could ask the scouts who own Lough Dan house if they would allow you access though many years ago I was given the oul "we're not insured to let non-scouts cross our land."
Second option is to bring a scout with you.
And third option is to walk up the river from the bridge at Oldbridge. Tough but doable. Once you are on Lough Dan you can land and explore the stream that leads into the north side as this is national park but avoid the stream at stepping stones (clochoige) as an angry landowner owns one side of the river and the lakeshore under the cliffs.
Interesting stuff: In the 1930s people used to come to Lough Dan for boat trips and picnics. Those trout-like fish you might see are Arctic char and Loughs Dan and Tay are one of the rare sites for them in Ireland.
Lough Dan is called after the Dana or Deanna, the god of the the De Danann, and not the equally hole woman of Eurovision fame.

recedite

EnderWiggin1 wrote: »

Yeah maybe it was the guy who owns the house to the left of the trail in the Valley, as he did keep referring to "their land".

I recommend anyone else that comes across him on the wicklow way, to tell him to mind his own business

He is based there alright, he is an employee of the owner, the somewhat eccentric gentleman who lives in the huge house at lough Tay. So it is his business to patrol the estate unfortunately. This unpleasant ranger/henchman has thrown me out twice, once for having a MTB and once for having a dog with me. I'd be very much in favour of the State taking control of the valley by compulsory purchase order and making a tourism asset out of it. There is a fantastic route down a track one side of the river, then crossing stepping stones at the river beside the ruin, and walk back up the other side. There is an equally unpleasant guy on the other side path (Archers Road) who keeps putting No Trespasser signs at the top of it. Anyway there is zero chance of getting a kayak in.The entrance gates at Luggala are called the Pier Gates BTW(not Pearl)

The other lake, lough Dan, I launched from the scouts facility while they weren't there, and paddled across and camped on the far side. The scenery is fantastic but the midges were terrible. Another time I paddled up from Oldbridge, but had to portage over trees and branches along the way, it's not worth all the scratches and bruises going that route.

barraseaclaid

Unfortunately being a scout and a new paddler the issue surrounding access to lough dan via the scout centre is not as simple as an insurance issue, as a youth organisation they must by law ensure that.( everyone working with (I.e. scout leaders) and anyone present on their property e.g. caretakers has been Garda vetted and as a result that measures are in place to ensure that in the interests of child protection that access to the scout centre is monitored, solution join the scouts!!! Simples!!!

Banbh

I do a lot of work for the scouts - fund-raising, driving and donkey-work as my kids are members. I have never been vetted by the Gardai but would gladly volunteer to be (must ask the scout master about it.)

Just out of curiosity as I no longer live in the area: Can any adult join the scouts? Are all adult members vetted? Can any scout use the centre at Lough Dan to access the lake?

barraseaclaid

The fundraising would prob not fall under as kids might not be there but at the risk of going off topic I have uploaded a copy of the policy to my dropbox for you here

Basically the advice is that for Non-Member adults i.e. involved parents

Non-Member Adults:Adult Helpers

Any adult who helps out on activities once a month or more (on a regular basis), or for 3 or more days in a 30 day period, or, who attends one or more overnight activities,willbe required to be vetted.

There is no problem what so ever getting vetted but now that every person in the country working with kids by law is required to be vetted there is a huge backlog of three or four months which creates problems for getting new leaders...conversation goes something like this...

Leader: "Oh so you would like to help out"
Parent: "Yep would love to get into the outdoors especially with the summer coming round"
Leader: "Ok so fill out this form"
Parent: "And then im good to help out?"
Leader: "Well eh theres the thing, Ill let you know in November"
Parent: ......................................



So to answer your questions...

Any adult can join scouts as long as they clear garda vetting and have no convictions etc and they make a satisfactory application for membership
All adult members are (or are in the process of) currently vetted as this is now legislation...but scouting ireland has had this in place for years for the protection of members

As regards using lough dan I have asked the powers that be on the scouts.ie forum and will report back!!!

Banbh

Much obliged.

thetar

Visit Scotland. No trespass law. You can walk anywhere you like, as long as you are not damaging property. No henchmen making threatening remarks. And if they do you call the police and have them removed. Unique in the world for that reason. It's quite pretty in places too!

BMac88

in 2007 i ran down the mountain to Lough Tay with a friend I was 17 I, got down got undressed and swam in the lake, within 2 minutes of us being there he came out and told us it was private property, got dressed and ran back up mountain, it was a tough descent and even tougher running back up. At least I got to swim in it. Maybe protesters these days should organize events at Private Lakes to draw attention to this fuedal private ownership of national gems and the general land issue in our country

ozt9vdujny3srf

You can get to Lough Dan via the Inchavore: https://www.iww.ie/river_guide/river.php?id=250

Will require a little class V paddling and a lot of rain.

Suaimhneach

I presume things havent improved? Was looking for a lake to SUP on, as wanted to try not being on the ocean, as I am brand new to it, and wanted to see if I could get here, but these stories are making it seem impossible...