Eircom .... any solution?

Johnboy1951

Just wondering if there might be anything other than moving ISP that would solve this recent problem .....

My d/load speeds are gone very bad ...... regardless what I might be d/loading the max I seem to be able to get is some 50Kb/s .... and typically 30Kb/s

I have a 3Mb/s connection which is showing in the Netopia router as 3072Kb/s down, and 384Kb/s up.

Just did an Eicom speedtest and got 456Kb/s down!

Line attenuation is showing as 44/28 db

I am trying to figure out if this is part of a general slow down from Eircom in recent days or if it is peculiar to me.

I just checked my BB stats and have not exceeded 70% of my cap in the past year .... so I am not being slowed for that reason.

Currently using 4.2.2.2 as primary DNS with Eircom DNS as secondary.

Not sure what else might be relevant.

Regards.

MyKeyG

This might seem obvious but you never mentioned if you contacted them? The problem may simply be that there is a fault somewhere on your line, you need to call them up, log a fault and I believe the SLA on repair is 3 - 5 working days. My BB is slow as a wet christmas at the moment and drops all together at times which is when I expect my neighbour is downloading, I'm just too lazy to spend an hour talking to a robot lady trying to log a fault.

Johnboy1951

MyKeyG wrote: »

This might seem obvious but you never mentioned if you contacted them? The problem may simply be that there is a fault somewhere on your line, you need to call them up, log a fault and I believe the SLA on repair is 3 - 5 working days. My BB is slow as a wet christmas at the moment and drops all together at times which is when I expect my neighbour is downloading, I'm just too lazy to spend an hour talking to a robot lady trying to log a fault.

No, I didn't contact them because the last time I had a problem some years ago they refused to deal with it until I did some stupid ****e with Windows, including only accepting the d/load stats if they displayed in IE. At that time my daughter had a machine running Win which I ended up using after beating my head against a wall for days. Even then I had to insist on getting an 'engineer' out to the house - at my cost apparently if he found nothing amiss. He took one look at the setup here and freaked. I spoke to his boss at base, who made one call and my problem was fixed.

I do not use Windows or any other MS software.
I most certainly am not going to buy and install it just to suit their stupidities.

So no I have not approached them .... I will probably change rather than go through that again.

Having read the above, I guess the only option I am leaving open to myself is to change ISP .......

Thanks.

Hank Scorpio

Post your line stats? SRN Margins and line attenuation

Type 192.164.1.254 into your web browser , hit expert mode and statistics-dsl , and paste them here.

Johnboy1951

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


. Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 8.50 16.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 43.50 28.00
CRC Errors 3711 3

Hank Scorpio

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 8.50 16.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 43.50 28.00
CRC Errors 3711 3

Your stats arent great, have you other things around the house plugged into phone sockets? What i suggest is unplug everything and connect the router to the master phone socket without a filter, and post the stats again.

MyKeyG

Plugging everything out only confirms the obvious IMHO the full unhindered signal should be more than sufficiant to maintain service on multiple devices. If you're getting a DSL signal but it's just week then somewhere along the line most likely either at the exchange or from the pole to your premises there is a technical fault. It's regrettable what happened a few years ago but it might be worth trying giving them a call as moving to a new provider takes time then you have to apply for BB with an SLA of 28 days for provision. My fault is so bad the Sky box can't even pick up the signal.

Hank Scorpio

Well its important to pinpoint what device is causing the problem if it is a problem with his setup at home, and if he rings eircom there going to ask him to do the same things anyway before they send out a engineer.

If a engineer does call out and finds its a problem with his setup he will be charged something like 80 euros.

MyKeyG

nuxxx wrote: »

If a engineer does call out and finds its a problem with his setup he will be charged something like 80 euros.

Actually that's a fair point. Given his speeds though it's highly unlikely it's the premises. It's worth checking all the outlets though, good call. They moved me up to finance so it's been a while since I fixed BB.:o

Johnboy1951

nuxxx wrote: »

Your stats arent great, have you other things around the house plugged into phone sockets? What i suggest is unplug everything and connect the router to the master phone socket without a filter, and post the stats again.

I have nothing to unplug from the phone line except the one phone.
The stats are essentially the same as they have been for a year or more from what I remember.
Certainly the attenuation is very similar.

Whatever is wrong is a recent event -- no changes made internally -- it is almost a continuation of the eircom dns problems except it is getting worse here.
Just did another test --- 566Kb/s down according to the Eircom site.

Maybe I will give them a ring tomorrow and see if they are any more helpful than the last time .......

I hope to get an opportunity to disconnect the phone and filter tomorrow ... maybe lunchtime ... and have another look at the stats then.
Knowing my luck the speed problem will have disappeared again by then and only reappear later ......

MyKeyG

Well then I'm sure it's a fault. My friend just got BB in his spot of the countryside and it's quick as a hot snot so I doubt the DNS issue has as much to do with it as people think. It might be worth asking the neighbours, if they're happy with their numbers it can't be anything beyond your house to the exchange.

civildefence

nuxxx wrote: »

Post your line stats? SRN Margins and line attenuation

Type 192.164.1.254 into your web browser , hit expert mode and statistics-dsl , and paste them here.

192.168.1.254 :pac:

Johnboy1951

Last three speed tests show 875 to 900 .... from Eircom

Web pages are slow to come up. Downloads are slow to very slow, even from Heanet.

Blacknight speed test shows 978Kb/s down and 324Kb/s up

For some reason it also shows that packet loss is 90.6% under the VOIP tab. Yet I have had no problems with VOIP calls ... wonder if their test is interfered with by my VOIP setup ... jitter is shown as 1.1ms average.

All very strange .....

Will do some disconnecting tomorrow and see if there is any difference ....... I guess it could be a failing modem, filter or phone ......

The line I am connected to is underground so I am not affected by the usual pole problems ...... but suppose there might be a dampness problem in a connection underground box.

Thanks all for the assistance.

Regards.

Johnboy1951

I have been watching what has been happening with regular speed tests ....... and in the past 3/4 of an hour - approx since midnight - my download speed has been consistent ... at or about 980Kb/s ..... near enough to 1 Mb/s

That sure beats the half meg I was getting earlier!

Pity I won't be here for the next few hours to see if it improves further .....

MyKeyG

To be fair that's not too surprising...everybody on your exchange is probably in bed so the contention is higher it doesn't necessarily mean there's not an issue.

lucernarian

If the line is syncing as planned, and the OP isn't suffering from disconnects, then:

How in the name of God will messing around with filters and internal wiring help??? I think some of ye need a crash course in digital methods of communication http://url.ie/2dtz

Anyway, it sounds like a contention issue. Or else your computer could have the generic typcial spyware/malware etc. Is it possible to try with an alternative computer/laptop, known to work fine on another connection?

The modem might have become faulty and in its half-working (and often overheated) state, it would have real throughput problems before it KOs. It has happened before to friends of mine.

Finally, if you have quite poor wireless reception, you will not get the full 2.5 Mbps transfer speed. Even when it's working at 54 Mbps, you get less than half that in actual throughput (about 21-22 Mbps). You'd want 5.5 mbps minimum for receive. Windows will only report the transmit speed, not the receive. You need some wireless utility or other, depending on the card manufacturer. But transmit speed is normally a good indicator.

The best way to go is to get a hold of another computer to check your connection, followed by swapping the modem temporarily with a friend's one. Then you can pinpoint it down to eircom:D

MyKeyG

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

If the line is syncing as planned, and the OP isn't suffering from disconnects, then:

How in the name of God will messing around with filters and internal wiring help??? I think some of ye need a crash course in digital methods of communication http://url.ie/2dtz

Anyway, it sounds like a contention issue. Or else your computer could have the generic typcial spyware/malware etc. Is it possible to try with an alternative computer/laptop, known to work fine on another connection?

The modem might have become faulty and in its half-working (and often overheated) state, it would have real throughput problems before it KOs. It has happened before to friends of mine.

Finally, if you have quite poor wireless reception, you will not get the full 2.5 Mbps transfer speed. Even when it's working at 54 Mbps, you get less than half that in actual throughput (about 21-22 Mbps). You'd want 5.5 mbps minimum for receive. Windows will only report the transmit speed, not the receive. You need some wireless utility or other, depending on the card manufacturer. But transmit speed is normally a good indicator.

The best way to go is to get a hold of another computer to check your connection, followed by swapping the modem temporarily with a friend's one. Then you can pinpoint it down to eircom:D

A faulty filter can certainly be a cause of slow downstream, plugging the modem straight into the wall can negate this posibility and nobody said anything about messing around with internal wiring. A faulty modem does not explain the poor attenuation, DS/US stats nor is it explained by malware NOR is it explained by a poor wireless connection since the stats come straight from the modem, it explains a weak DSL signal coming into the modem from the line pure and simple, I really think you should read your own book.
I already said it was probably a contention issue which is why he was getting improved performance at 1AM. Eircom can test the line in 30 seconds if it comes up red it will be logged with an engineer no questions asked and is well worth trying before he attemts different combinations of borrowed PC paraphenalia.

cpu-dude

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


. Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 8.50 16.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 43.50 28.00
CRC Errors 3711 3

CRC errors represent a poor internal setup. A few questions:

How many phone points have you in your house?
Is every device in the house correctly filtered (sky, BB, alarms, faxes etc).
Are you using an telephone extension cable for the Broadband?
Have you got the router connected at the main telephone point?

lucernarian

The attenuation is not poor. The line is managing to sync at its expected speed currently. So how the hell will messing around with internal wiring (funnily enough most DSL filters are used indoors and should interface between every phone appliance and the sockets. Kinda makes it part of the internal wiring setup, doesn't it??) make any difference to connection speed when the router is already managing full speed.

Did you even look at the bloody stats he posted?? To say that 44dB is *bad* despite the fact that the line is managing full speed without any disconnects, is disingenuous and a total crock.

The problem is unequivocally not with the line. Why the f**k would eircom possibly flag a line that's syncing normally as faulty???? That's exactly what they test for, is the speed/profile the line's on along with its existing attenuation.

I don't think using an alternative laptop or modem can add up to many "combinations of paraphenalia" as you elegantly put it. Unlike trying to find fault with a fully functioning line, at least it would try to narrow down the problem.

And CRC counts don't matter a damn as they have to be derived with time. AKA to see how likely disconnects will occur, you need the number of crc errors per minute or hour etc. That router might have been left on for weeks or hours.

To summarise: Unless the line is syncing below its intended speed or unless there are disconnects being suffered, improving line quality will NOT help download or upload speeds while browsing, or while doing anything internet related for that matter! To say anything else is pseudo-science, just like the way those Monster Cables will make your hdmi-fed telly's picture quality even better!:pac:

MyKeyG

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about, I wouldn't compund your cluelessness by being rude.

jor el

Line attenuation is OK for up to about 6M, SNR margin is >6dB, so that's OK. The modem is syncing correctly, so no problem there. Poor speed is more than likely eircom's backhaul to the exchange and/or contention. I don't see ho doing anything in the house is going to effect this.

If connecting with through wireless, change to wired. Everything else is pretty much a waste of time. The only other thing would be the modem itself. A modem that's failing could give speed issues and connection drops, even though the line stats are fine. You won't know this until you swap it out.

MyKeyG wrote:

It's clear you have no idea what you're talking about

How so?

Johnboy1951

Well I have not changed anything here and I am now (3.30pm) d/loading at a constant 125KB/s.

Just to be clear ...... I do not use Windows and so do not have any Windows virus or malware or such here.
I use a wired connection to the router which also has not changed in a number of years.

By the behaviour to data I am inclined to rule out pending failure of the modem/router or the filter.

IMHO the fault lies with Eircom ..... whether that is contention ratio or other throughput problem I guess only they can tell.

Up to lately I have had constant 320KB/s + download ..... for more than a year ..... regardless of time of day or night.

I tried ringing them this morning and gave up after 15 mins waiting on the line ....... no point in me speaking to someone after I have been left waiting long enough to start fuming!

Thanks again to all for your input. Much appreciated.

PS Should have added that the modem is semi-permanently connected. It is stood on its side to help with air flow to keep its temp down (like this since it was issued and first set up). The modem might remain connected for days/weeks/months.

Regards.

Johnboy1951

I spent a few minutes looking at this problem again .....

I did a hard power down and up after 20 to 30 secs of the modem.

I then monitored the CRC errors ....... they seem to be climbing at about 100 per minute! and that is with me not doing anything on the net.

My stats changed ever so slightly - not significant except maybe for the CRC errors ....

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 11.00 15.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 44.50 28.00
CRC Errors 632 3

Can someone tell me what the significance of the CRC errors might be?

Regards.

chopperbyrne

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

No, I didn't contact them because the last time I had a problem some years ago they refused to deal with it until I did some stupid ****e with Windows, including only accepting the d/load stats if they displayed in IE. At that time my daughter had a machine running Win which I ended up using after beating my head against a wall for days. Even then I had to insist on getting an 'engineer' out to the house - at my cost apparently if he found nothing amiss. He took one look at the setup here and freaked. I spoke to his boss at base, who made one call and my problem was fixed.

I do not use Windows or any other MS software.
I most certainly am not going to buy and install it just to suit their stupidities.

So no I have not approached them .... I will probably change rather than go through that again.

Having read the above, I guess the only option I am leaving open to myself is to change ISP .......

Thanks.

Were you using Linux?

MyKeyG

Johnny there's a trick, or at least there was, to getting through to a human when you call Eircom. After the computer gives the menu options if you say 'help' it will cut to the operator. It sounds crazy but it used to work for us. I will bet my parents house that the problem is technical going from your modem back along the network whether it's the DNS, the backbone, your port on the exchange or the cable going to the house. I used to work for Perlico BB support and whenever we got a call in we tested the line, if it came back red a fault was logged. If it came back green all the other mumbo jumbo was considered. If your modem is connecting to the computer and providing any signal it's not settings. In fact once the DSL is in sync we never even bothered with tweaking the PC.

Johnboy1951

chopperbyrne wrote: »

Were you using Linux?

Yes. Still am.

I got through to Eircom support.
They did some tests etc and apparently packets were being dropped when they pinged my router. So a problem was logged for an engineer.

After the call I was making some changes here to see if I could improve things ... moved my VOIP gear and suddenly I had 2.5Mb/s on test page!

I panicked and called them back to cancel ...... only to discover it was just an increase for a short time and it gradually fell away again until it went to about 500Kb/s again.

I had to call again to reinstate the problem .......

What a mess!

I now have to figure out what is going on internally so that I can leave it for their tests if/when an engineer appears. I will open another thread in VOIP I think, about how it might be best to connect up things.

Oh yes ..... on the blacknight test the loss of packets on the VOIP part of the test is due, it seems, to having a VOIP setup in place! With the VOIP disconnected there is no packet loss.

I fear also that may in some way have influenced Eircoms results ....

I will wait and see what the engineers do I suppose.

Regards.

Prisoner6409

I would agree with jor_el, it sounds very like a failing modem to me. It might be worthwhile swaping out the modem if you can get your hands on another modem just to test this theory.

chopperbyrne

Johnboy1951 wrote: »

Yes. Still am.

I got through to Eircom support.
They did some tests etc and apparently packets were being dropped when they pinged my router. So a problem was logged for an engineer.

After the call I was making some changes here to see if I could improve things ... moved my VOIP gear and suddenly I had 2.5Mb/s on test page!

I panicked and called them back to cancel ...... only to discover it was just an increase for a short time and it gradually fell away again until it went to about 500Kb/s again.

I had to call again to reinstate the problem .......

What a mess!

I now have to figure out what is going on internally so that I can leave it for their tests if/when an engineer appears. I will open another thread in VOIP I think, about how it might be best to connect up things.

Oh yes ..... on the blacknight test the loss of packets on the VOIP part of the test is due, it seems, to having a VOIP setup in place! With the VOIP disconnected there is no packet loss.

I fear also that may in some way have influenced Eircoms results ....

I will wait and see what the engineers do I suppose.

Regards.

In fairness you can hardly blame them for not supporting linux a couple of years ago, it's only starting to become popular due to the availability of netbooks.

Wouldn't be surprised if eircomnet start training their staff how to troubleshoot in linux soon enough.

I assume you have done the usual stuff like remove all devices from your phone line and have your router connected to the main phone point with no filter? You'd be surprised how many faults are caused by some internal fault.

Johnboy1951

chopperbyrne wrote: »

In fairness you can hardly blame them for not supporting linux a couple of years ago, it's only starting to become popular due to the availability of netbooks.

Wouldn't be surprised if eircomnet start training their staff how to troubleshoot in linux soon enough.

I assume you have done the usual stuff like remove all devices from your phone line and have your router connected to the main phone point with no filter? You'd be surprised how many faults are caused by some internal fault.

Just to be clear about what happened ...... I did not ask Eircom to support my operating system.
What happened was they refused to support their service because I did not have one particular commercial operating system installed.
For instance, they would only accept the results of a speed test performed using their own site.
That speed test required, at the time, the use of Windows/IE or some such nonsense.
It got so far with them at the time, that they refused to accept the information from their own router which showed that my line was syncing at 1Mb and not 3Mb. They would have accepted it (and eventually did) when I accessed their router through IE from Win. They still insisted that the fault was on my end and sent out a clueless 'engineer'. As I said it was fixed with a quick word with the 'engineers' boss.

I hope that clarifies things for you.
They are required to support their service to their modem which they essentially refused to do unless I complied with their requirement to run a particular set of proprietary softwares.

That is how I saw it, and how I still see it.

I have had a much better experience this time with Eircom support. I have no problem to report with how they have handled things so far.

Regards.

Johnboy1951

Line State Up
Modulation DMT
Data Path Interleave


Downstream Upstream
Max Allowed Speed (kbps) 3072 384
SN Margin (dB) 13.00 13.00
Line Attenuation (dB) 43.50 28.00
CRC Errors 18 2

Well I have no idea if Eircom did something or if it is due to the improved weather or some fairy somewhere, but my CRC errors have almost disappeared.
S/N is up today also from as low as 8 and a previous max of 12.

Something is changing 'out there' it seems ......

lucernarian

But what about the actual download speeds currently?? I assume your modem has not suffered an actual disconnect?

Btw I find that the netopias sometimes select the downstream/upstream tones less than perfectly, resulting in lower than normal SNR values even if attenuation is a dB lower. If I ever see a high rate of CRC errors, I turned off the modem and turned it back on, just to see what would happen. Usually the CRC errors went away by and large, and sometimes the average signal margin would be 2 or 3 dB higher. SNR fluctuates constantly unlike attenuation, as you'll see if you refresh the stats page on the netopia a few times.

So nothing usually changes, except what tones the modem/DSLAM use to transmit and receive and the bit loadings of each used tone.

Johnboy1951

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

But what about the actual download speeds currently?? I assume your modem has not suffered an actual disconnect?

No disconnect that I did not initiate.
Speeds have been steady since 2.30am yesterday morning from what I can tell.

Btw I find that the netopias sometimes select the downstream/upstream tones less than perfectly, resulting in lower than normal SNR values even if attenuation is a dB lower. If I ever see a high rate of CRC errors, I turned off the modem and turned it back on, just to see what would happen. Usually the CRC errors went away by and large, and sometimes the average signal margin would be 2 or 3 dB higher. SNR fluctuates constantly unlike attenuation, as you'll see if you refresh the stats page on the netopia a few times.

So nothing usually changes, except what tones the modem/DSLAM use to transmit and receive and the bit loadings of each used tone.

When checking the CRC errors the other day the number was increasing by about 100 per minute. That was even after a hard power down.
The CRC errors are negligible now. The 'average' S/N figure, as seen as the page is refreshed, has risen since the other day also.
All I can do is report what I see. I do not have the info to interpret what those changes might mean.
So what I can say is that the CRC errors have almost disappeared, the S/N figures have improved, and my d/load speed has settled in or about 2.5Mb/s.
Why all this has happened? I do not know and can only speculate.

Regards.

lucernarian

If download speeds are mainly crap during the afternoon/evening, I'd get on to eircom about it and tell them to do something about the contention. If they suggest to upgrade your bb package, disregard that as it will make no difference. Eircom have to sort out the exchange first.

Contention is a pain in the ass as the user can do nothing about it except change provider, and nor can a technician visit do anything about it.

Johnboy1951

To_be_confirmed wrote: »

If download speeds are mainly crap during the afternoon/evening, I'd get on to eircom about it and tell them to do something about the contention. If they suggest to upgrade your bb package, disregard that as it will make no difference. Eircom have to sort out the exchange first.

Contention is a pain in the ass as the user can do nothing about it except change provider, and nor can a technician visit do anything about it.

Sorry ... maybe I did not make it clear .........

all my problems with download speed have gone

unless I should consider that 2.5Mb/s is not good enough on a 3Mb/s connection ... it is a little low but I can accept it ...

So I will wait and see if Eircom improves things further or if things take a dive for the worse again in the future ......

lucernarian

For some reason, I thought 2:30 am was 2:30am today! I get you now, everything's a-ok for nearly 2 days. Sorry for not grasping your post sooner.

About 2.6 mbps will be the absolute peak you'll get on "3 mbps" connections thanks to connection overheads.

Sometimes if the problem goes away by itself, it can just as easily come back. But we'll worry about that if it happens!